Show Transcript

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How does a man who'd been drinking his entire life suddenly stop drinking,

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find himself signed up for the Tour de France when he didn't even own a bicycle?

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And did I mention this isn't a young guy? I'm talking about a guy who's 50 years old.

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Obviously, limitations are off the table today, my friend.

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You are about to hear one of the most powerful stories from one of the most

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amazing people you will ever encounter.

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By the end of today's episode, you will discover the power of resilience,

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the beauty of self-discovery, and how one man's courage can inspire you to conquer your own mountains.

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It is my utmost pleasure to welcome you to episode 315, 2018 my interview with

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none other than Andy Smith. Welcome to the podcast.

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Yo, are you ready to flip the script on life? Because those bad days,

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they're just doors to better days.

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And that's exactly what we do here at Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

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Your host, Kevin Lowe, he's been flipping the script on his own life,

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turning over 20 years of being completely blind into straight up inspiration,

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motivation, and encouragement just for you.

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So kick back, relax, and let me introduce you to your host, Kevin Lowe.

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Andy, man, what a pleasure to have you here today. Welcome to the podcast.

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Yay. I'm so glad to be part of this.

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Following your story, what an inspiration.

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And one of the best things about doing what I do now is I get to meet people like you.

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So, yeah, look forward to having a great chat.

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Oh, man. Well, thank you so much, man. That means a lot to me.

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So let's kind of take us back kind of to childhood.

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I always love to kind of get an idea. And I think in your story,

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you know, it's going to be pivotal to just kind of understanding leading up

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to, you know, the events of your life.

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And so take me back, talk to me about where you grew up at, what life was like

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for you as a kid, and we'll work from there.

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Amazing. Yeah. I mean, I was born in the north of England.

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And when I was seven years old, we moved up to the Shetland Islands,

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which for those of you who are not sure where that is, it's a small group of

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about 100 islands that is basically forms the northernmost part of the UK.

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It's sort of on the way to Iceland, sort of adjacent with Norway and very,

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very remote part of the world.

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I grew up on the island of Bresse, which is about seven miles by three, 300 people on it.

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And in the early 70s, when we moved up there, it was like stepping back into a different century.

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There was no car ferry.

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If you wanted a car on the island, you had to befriend somebody with a fishing

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boat who would crane it onto the deck and take it over for you.

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And just an extraordinary place for a young guy to grow up.

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Very free to go and do what you wanted. but not, I guess, by a lot of people's

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standards, maybe people who've grown up in a city and things like that.

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There's not a lot of things to do, so you kind of have to make your own entertainment.

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No cinemas. There was only one TV channel when I was growing up.

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Yeah, so you really were left to your own devices in terms of how you passed

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your time, but a spectacular place,

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loads of wildlife, life, grew up messing about in boats and fishing and going

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and working on the local farm and all this kind of thing.

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And I guess one of the things that had come to define my life,

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a huge drinking culture.

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I actually grew up in a big old house that we moved into that was more or less

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completely completely derelict.

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And there was, I think, about two usable rooms in this big three-story house,

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about eight bedrooms, and the ceilings were hanging down.

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And it was quite an interesting place.

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There was rabbits living in it. There was rats, you name it.

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And so we fixed that up and turned it into a guest house and a pub.

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What could possibly go wrong for a young guy in that sort of situation.

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Very, very happy childhood, but from quite an early age,

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developed quite the taste for what I would call the Shetland diet,

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which was Tennant's lager and McEwan's export beer washed down with copious amounts of whiskey.

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So from probably about 13 years old, I was very much sort of embraced that culture.

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It was good fun, lots of interesting times, but everything sort of revolved around alcohol,

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whether it was a dance at the local hall or whether it was watching people in

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the pub, which was my home,

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where our very livelihood depended on people consuming copious amounts of alcohol in our house.

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So it kind of had quite a big impact on me, I think, culturally to sort of realize

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that in order to prove yourself as a man,

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as it were, that as a young man growing up, that.

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You're the size of your manhood was measured by how far down a bottle of whiskey

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you could get before you either threw up or fell over, basically.

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So it was quite the baptism of fire.

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And very much one of the sort of the phrases was, if you couldn't had your drink,

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as they would say up there, then you were a bit of a failure.

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And that carried with me throughout my whole life of this kind of desire to sort of prove myself.

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And, you know, drinking was a big part of that.

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Yeah. Wow. How old were you when you would finally move away from there?

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So I went away to university when I was 18, went to Edinburgh,

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the capital, and studied physics at uni.

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But again you know quite a

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big part of being a student certainly in

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Scotland is having a good time party

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party party and my folks I'm very grateful

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that I'm 58 now and my folks are still alive and they still live up there so

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we're actually looking at a holiday to go up and it's a place that is very dear

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to me in terms of I think there's something very special about growing Growing up on an island,

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you very much can sort of walk the coastline.

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You feel part of the landscape, as it were.

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I always make a point of when I'm going home of just touching the ground.

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And it feels very special that you have this thing that is quite separate from,

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you know, the islands around it, but actually is also connected underneath the sea.

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So it's a very, very special place. but I live in England now.

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I've spent most of my professional career living in various different parts

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of the UK, but it's where I consider to be home. Yeah.

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Oh my gosh. I mean, it sounds absolutely just beautiful.

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In every sense of the word. What a magical place and so amazing that you still

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get to go back there today and experience it with your parents. I absolutely love that.

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And yeah, and it's a very beautiful landscape.

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It's a sort of place that on a beautiful day, I would really challenge any place

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to be a more beautiful part of this planet.

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But the weather, obviously, given where it is,

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is a little mixed shall we say uh it's

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quite funny when people go to visit they might say

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oh why are there no trees uh around here and you say well come back in september

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and then you'll realize that basically any tree worth its salt is going to get

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blown flat and yes you know very windy very wet so lots of long dark nights

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all the more time for drinking really it's yes wow Wow.

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Now, one thing I was kind of curious about growing up in this type of culture,

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in this environment, did you always intend on going away to college or did you

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ever think about not going to college?

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Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I think I was probably steered by my parents.

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I think particularly my dad, who was keen for me to pursue further education.

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I was, I was pretty bright at school, did very well in all my exams,

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but I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

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So physics was my sort of passion.

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It was what I was good at and it made sense to go and study that at university.

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And, and it's interesting as a father now myself and having,

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you know, experienced sort of trying to encourage my kids to go and pursue pursue their passions.

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I think my dad saw what was sort of potentially a, uh, you know,

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a good adventure for me and sort of encouraged, cajoled, kicked me to go and pursue this.

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Yeah. So I kind of drifted, I drifted into it.

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And to be fair, I've probably not really been back living there full-time since

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cause just career and things like that now is, is taking me to other parts of

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the, of the country. Yeah, absolutely.

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I love it. What career path would you end up taking after college?

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So I, I, I went into one of the big sort of blue chip retailers.

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A company called Marks and Spencer in the UK into their sort of management training

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scheme, which was a quite a good grounding.

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But then I went to get a sales job in the pharmaceutical industry.

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And that's probably where I've spent most of my career in healthcare and gradually

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becoming more senior in management roles, running divisions of pharmaceutical companies.

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I've run dental companies, veterinary companies.

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So it's just been kind of interesting how I've always...

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Sort of drifted towards the healthcare side of things.

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And given what I do now, it's just, it's kind of funny how life sometimes gives

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you little clues along the way around where maybe your destiny may lie.

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And I find myself really putting some of the experience in my kind of earlier

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career to good use in terms of what I'm doing now.

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Yeah, I love it. You know what? I, I love that because I often say that I feel

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like lives or each of our lives are like a jigsaw puzzle.

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And, you know, all along the way, pieces, they start getting fit together.

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And many times we don't take an opportunity, though, to ever try and look at

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things from a big picture until much later on.

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And I think a lot of times when we do sit back and look at a big picture,

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we can see exactly like what you said, where there were little clues.

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Lose. There are little things when you look back on life that have led you to this place.

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Well, I love the movie Slumdog Millionaire. You've probably come across it.

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And I just love the kind of the narrative that everything you go through in

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your life, good, bad, and indifferent can have meaning somewhere further down the road.

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And I think it's one of those things that as you you get older,

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you start to see the value in painful experiences.

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You start to see the value of people who come into your life and they're there

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for a reason. They're there to teach you something.

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And sometimes those lessons are uncomfortable and sometimes they're there to

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inspire you to go and do other things.

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And sometimes it requires a passage of time in order to really understand the value of that.

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Yeah, absolutely. Talking more about kind of the alcohol side of your story,

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because I know I know that's really going to kind of lead us through really

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the rest of our of our conversation.

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Will you talk to me a little bit more about that of it's just impact on your

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your daily life, maybe even career wise?

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I would love to kind of hear a little bit more about that. Yeah.

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And, and I think, you know, when I was younger, alcohol was very, it was very exciting.

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It was something that you did with your friends. It was a kind of a social glue

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in absence of things like going to the movies or going to the bowling alley

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and things like that. None of these things existed.

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So we would just sit in a little shed somewhere and sit and drink and do various different things.

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And I kind of carried that narrative through the rest of my life.

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And then when I started working, and I was away, working away from home,

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maybe feeling a little bit isolated, alcohol, again, felt like a bit of an antidote to loneliness.

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I became more and more senior in my roles.

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And I found that I was using alcohol a lot in terms of relaxation.

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I was using it in terms of entertaining and it

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just became quite all-encompassing there

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were very little or very few parts of

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my life where alcohol didn't play a certain

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role and and it was fine

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for a while and then obviously you

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get in a relationship you get married kids come

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along and all of

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a sudden you start to feel that there's a slight shift

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there's a slight evolution where far from being

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the kind of the fun thing alcohol just

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starts to become something that's getting in the way and

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it's interesting how people will twist a narrative on things and i certainly

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did that and i was very successful i broke records i won awards for my coaching

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and influencing and management skills and,

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you know, was perceived as a real high achiever within the industry that I was in.

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When I moved into dental, I completely rewrote the rule book in terms of what

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was possible, took on a poor performing company and transformed it.

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Did the same when I went into veterinary. And all the while,

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I just told myself that to go and drink myself to sleep, basically, let's just call it that,

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on the sofa every night was...

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The actions of a high achiever. I work hard. I play hard.

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I remember when I got my first sort of big job in the retail company after leaving

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university, my manager at the time, and we're going back to the kind of mid 80s, the late 80s here.

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And he was very much, you know, well, you need to work hard and play hard.

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So I just took him at his word and assumed play hard meant just go out and,

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you know, obliterate yourself with alcohol.

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Don't get me wrong. I did lots of other things as well, which were great fun and things like that.

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But there was just this kind of general presence of alcohol in my life.

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I got married, a couple of amazing kids who are now 18 and 21.

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But then that marriage failed and alcohol was a big part of that.

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And I was I was deeply unhappy in the marriage.

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And it became my go to in terms of coping with that.

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That and and obviously I think anybody

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who's listening to this who's been married to somebody who drinks heavily

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would also understand that there is a real sort of difficulty that that goes

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with that so we just we were in this situation and where I was unhappy so I

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drank more then things would happen which made me more unhappy which meant I

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drank more and you end up in this kind of crazy cycle.

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And then that marriage ended and I moved on, met this amazing new woman,

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Louise, and we ended up having a, having a child together.

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Who's now he's 10 as we speak to this.

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And I tried to use that sort of change in my life as an opportunity to to really have a look at myself.

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And I did for a little while. And then I remember once Louise kind of saying

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to me, do you need to really be drinking as much as you are?

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And she came at this from a place of love.

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My ex came at it from a position of judgment. And I think when people are kind

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of really quite critical and things like that.

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Anybody who's struggled with any kind of addiction, even though you are doing

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something that on the face of it seems like a choice and you're kind of enjoying doing it.

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Actually, I think anybody who's really struggled with this would openly acknowledge

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that you feel terrible about yourself.

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Each day you say to yourself, right, today's going to be different.

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I don't want to wake up like this tomorrow morning.

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And you're full of good intentions and you go through the day.

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And then about lunchtime, the excuses start to kind of creep back in as to why

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maybe you could maybe just have a little drink and whatever.

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And then, hey, presto, off you go again. And you wake up again the following morning.

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And it's like the movie Groundhog Day. You just think, I seem to be unable to break the cycle.

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And I think if you've ever been in that situation, it is a deeply uncomfortable

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state of affairs. I used to wake up every morning hating myself.

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So if anybody were to judge me on that, I literally, I was full to capacity of self-loathing.

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And so I would be very defensive about it.

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And, you know, I would almost kind of stick two fingers up. It's like,

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well, you know, if you're going to criticize me for my drinking, then just watch.

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I will go and, you know, really go to town and I'll give you something to criticize me for.

00:18:55.350 --> 00:18:58.930

But Louise was very different. She just came at this from a position of concern.

00:18:59.670 --> 00:19:05.810

Of love. And just, I guess, a general sense of, I want you to be around to be

00:19:05.810 --> 00:19:08.130

a dad for our young son. You're a good dad.

00:19:08.310 --> 00:19:10.910

I see how you are with your older children.

00:19:11.810 --> 00:19:16.970

And, and I'm just really frightened that you're not going to be around for them.

00:19:17.130 --> 00:19:21.030

And, but even then that wasn't enough for me.

00:19:21.270 --> 00:19:26.650

It took me to get to quite a dark place and bearing in mind,

00:19:26.690 --> 00:19:31.070

you know, this is a guy who who was a supposed high achiever.

00:19:31.765 --> 00:19:36.445

I think to look on the outside, looking in, this is a guy who's got the big

00:19:36.445 --> 00:19:41.925

flash company car, the nice house, you know, looks like he's got it all under control.

00:19:42.405 --> 00:19:49.505

And yet on the inside, I was, I was just in a terrible state and I was on antidepressants.

00:19:49.565 --> 00:19:53.645

I mean, there's some irony there, you know, drinking something that is an addictive

00:19:53.645 --> 00:19:56.545

depressant each evening, only to wake

00:19:56.665 --> 00:19:59.485

up to take a tablet, which is an antidepressant in the morning,

00:19:59.585 --> 00:20:04.885

is a special kind of habit reserved for people who are struggling with this.

00:20:04.985 --> 00:20:09.345

But it all kind of came to a head where I was getting a lot of health problems.

00:20:09.785 --> 00:20:16.065

I was struggling with gout, which I think a lot of people kind of smile or smirk

00:20:16.065 --> 00:20:19.385

when you talk about gout because it's seen as kind of self inflicted,

00:20:19.385 --> 00:20:21.025

a bit of a slightly comedy disease.

00:20:21.585 --> 00:20:28.625

If you've ever struggled with gout, it is the most most painful thing that I have ever experienced.

00:20:28.845 --> 00:20:33.605

I got it in both knees and both ankles and gout in your knee is,

00:20:33.665 --> 00:20:39.145

it's a bit like somebody ramming a hot poker into the joint and twisting it

00:20:39.145 --> 00:20:40.345

every time your leg moves.

00:20:40.545 --> 00:20:44.705

And it is, it is very difficult to cope with. I was on painkillers,

00:20:44.705 --> 00:20:46.325

I was on preventative medication.

00:20:46.505 --> 00:20:50.705

And the only thing that would make me feel better if I was in the middle of

00:20:50.705 --> 00:20:53.645

an attack was to get drunk. It was the only kind of painkiller.

00:20:53.985 --> 00:20:59.245

The irony was after I quit drinking three months later, the gout disappeared

00:20:59.245 --> 00:21:01.265

and I was able to come off the medication.

00:21:01.525 --> 00:21:06.365

But at the time when you're in the, in the moment, it was, it was terrible.

00:21:06.425 --> 00:21:11.005

And I'd had a medical, I, uh, my blood pressure was through the roof.

00:21:11.085 --> 00:21:12.685

My cholesterol was through the roof.

00:21:12.785 --> 00:21:19.725

I was pre-diabetic and I just thought, wow, this is, this is not how I thought

00:21:19.725 --> 00:21:22.705

I would be at 50 years old as it was at the time.

00:21:23.345 --> 00:21:28.125

And, and then it all kind of came to a head with, uh, I was,

00:21:28.125 --> 00:21:32.885

I was in a, uh, our local supermarket and I had a panic attack and I,

00:21:32.905 --> 00:21:34.865

I'd never really had a panic attack.

00:21:34.965 --> 00:21:37.705

I'd had times, you know, I was living with a lot of stress and anxiety,

00:21:37.965 --> 00:21:43.365

but I thought I was having a heart attack. Uh, my skin was on fire.

00:21:43.885 --> 00:21:49.345

My heart was racing out of my chest and I started to lose consciousness.

00:21:49.485 --> 00:21:52.945

And I actually fell into one of the fridges in the supermarket,

00:21:54.445 --> 00:21:59.085

and was sort of helped up by this little old lady, this little frail old lady

00:21:59.085 --> 00:22:03.825

who's, you know, I'm a big guy and she kind of helped me to kind of sit up and,

00:22:03.885 --> 00:22:05.345

and she said, are you okay?

00:22:05.525 --> 00:22:09.485

And I was trying to make excuses like I'd slipped or something like that.

00:22:09.605 --> 00:22:12.185

And I remember I said, oh, just give me a minute. I'll be okay.

00:22:12.285 --> 00:22:16.185

And I sat there and I will never forget this moment of just sitting,

00:22:16.225 --> 00:22:21.325

looking at the floor and going, what are you doing here?

00:22:21.405 --> 00:22:25.785

This is crazy what you're doing. And so...

00:22:26.580 --> 00:22:33.120

That set me off on a little bit of a voyage of discovery.

00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:39.440

But again, with the absence of anything, I'd been to AA.

00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:48.220

I went to a few AA meetings and I just couldn't get my head around the whole

00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:51.060

live a day at a time for the rest of your life.

00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.520

And the fact that I was there with people who'd been going to these meetings

00:22:55.520 --> 00:23:00.380

for years and years and years, and they didn't look to me like they were any

00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:03.640

further forward than I was.

00:23:03.820 --> 00:23:10.800

And I thought, well, what I'm hearing here was a lot of, you know, sad stories for sure.

00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:13.900

And there were some people who were in a terrible situation.

00:23:14.120 --> 00:23:18.780

And so my heart went out to them, but I just thought But knowing what I know

00:23:18.780 --> 00:23:24.520

about problem solving in the business world, this does not make sense to me.

00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:30.660

It does not resonate with me at all because there is no kind of place that I've

00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:35.720

been to before where just sitting talking about a problem ever solves it.

00:23:36.060 --> 00:23:41.900

And and so I went to a few meetings and there was a really sweet old lady.

00:23:41.980 --> 00:23:46.140

She bought me a book and and she said to me after a couple of meetings,

00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:48.700

she said, oh, do you, you know, how are you getting on? What do you think?

00:23:49.300 --> 00:23:52.520

I said, you know, I don't think this is right for me. And she kind of went,

00:23:52.560 --> 00:23:56.640

oh, that's because you haven't hit rock bottom yet.

00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:02.880

And, uh, I was like, well, that's kind of why I'm here. So I don't,

00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.760

you know, that doesn't, so that doesn't happen.

00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:10.500

And she was sort of saying that this was your kind of entry ticket that you had to lose everything.

00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:14.840

And sure enough, the people that I was in the meeting with were, you know, very few of

00:24:14.860 --> 00:24:18.020

them were working they didn't seem like they had particularly happy

00:24:18.020 --> 00:24:21.760

and fulfilling lives they were just kind of getting by and i

00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:24.800

i've kind of said with my tongue in my cheek in

00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:27.760

the past that i felt a bit like i'd gone

00:24:27.760 --> 00:24:30.640

to weight watchers and only to be told that

00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.200

i wasn't fat enough yet you know when

00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.880

you're 500 pounds and you you've had

00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.280

a heart attack then we can help you and and so

00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:43.760

i left that and thought okay the the

00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:46.620

answer must be elsewhere but i just couldn't work it out

00:24:46.620 --> 00:24:55.060

until i kind of got my own head around what might work for me and there was

00:24:55.060 --> 00:25:01.400

one very interesting day so not long after the incident in the supermarket i

00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:05.320

was running late and i was running the veterinary company at the time.

00:25:05.360 --> 00:25:07.880

And I really did not get on with my boss.

00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:10.640

I'd completely, I was brought in to turn the business around.

00:25:10.780 --> 00:25:15.940

The business had gone from declining at 30% per year to growing at 80%.

00:25:15.940 --> 00:25:21.040

And yet this guy just had a real way of belittling everything that I was doing.

00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.980

And I'm a big boy. I...

00:25:24.897 --> 00:25:29.477

Didn't think that it would get to me, but it really did. And it really damaged

00:25:29.477 --> 00:25:32.837

my self-confidence. I was drinking more and more and more.

00:25:33.277 --> 00:25:40.237

And then one morning I was up early, showered, got a long drive ahead of me,

00:25:40.397 --> 00:25:43.897

got in the car, driving to go and get on the motorway.

00:25:44.037 --> 00:25:48.177

And this journey takes me past the railway crossing.

00:25:48.317 --> 00:25:51.177

And as I was driving up, I

00:25:51.177 --> 00:25:54.057

was about a couple hundred meters away and the lights started to

00:25:54.057 --> 00:25:56.857

flash that indicating that the barriers were about to

00:25:56.857 --> 00:25:59.717

come down so i started to pick up speed i

00:25:59.717 --> 00:26:02.637

put my foot on the accelerator to go and try and beat the barriers

00:26:02.637 --> 00:26:05.797

and as i got closer i slammed on

00:26:05.797 --> 00:26:10.217

the brakes i was just like what are you doing you know this is this is insanity

00:26:10.217 --> 00:26:14.737

to go and try and beat the train so i kind of screeched to a halt at the barriers

00:26:14.737 --> 00:26:20.777

and sat there kind of stewing in my own juice knowing i was going to be late

00:26:20.777 --> 00:26:23.417

for this meeting, anxiety levels through the roof.

00:26:23.617 --> 00:26:30.357

And then a very interesting thing happened. And I was sitting there and listening

00:26:30.357 --> 00:26:35.177

to the radio and the Michael Jackson song, the man in the mirror came on.

00:26:35.437 --> 00:26:43.897

And I've heard that song hundreds of times before, and I'd never really listened

00:26:43.897 --> 00:26:48.117

to it and kind of understood what the lyrics were all about.

00:26:48.117 --> 00:26:53.297

And that line in the chorus where it says, I'm starting with the man in the

00:26:53.297 --> 00:26:56.897

mirror and I'm asking him to change his ways.

00:26:57.477 --> 00:27:06.237

My entire life changed on one word, asking, because I'd spent literally 37 years

00:27:06.237 --> 00:27:12.117

beating myself up about the fact that I was drinking too much and all this kind of stuff.

00:27:12.117 --> 00:27:15.037

And this moment when I was looking at

00:27:15.037 --> 00:27:18.137

my reflection in the rearview mirror I just literally asked

00:27:18.137 --> 00:27:20.917

myself a question I just said are you willing to

00:27:20.917 --> 00:27:23.797

do what it takes to sort

00:27:23.797 --> 00:27:26.697

this out once and for all and it was almost like somebody

00:27:26.697 --> 00:27:33.257

else answered me back from the mirror and just went yeah I'm ready and it was

00:27:33.257 --> 00:27:37.097

the first time I'd really kind of meant it and then that set me off on quite

00:27:37.097 --> 00:27:43.657

a voyage of discovery to basically learn what I needed to learn in order to

00:27:43.657 --> 00:27:45.037

put this to bed once and for all.

00:27:45.877 --> 00:27:50.397

Wow. What a profound moment.

00:27:51.177 --> 00:27:57.897

And isn't it crazy how moments like this happen in the most just unlikely of

00:27:57.897 --> 00:28:03.617

situations and places, sitting, waiting on a train, listening to Michael Jackson

00:28:03.617 --> 00:28:05.457

and you have this moment.

00:28:06.136 --> 00:28:11.016

That's incredible. And also, I think that's kind of how life is, isn't it?

00:28:11.036 --> 00:28:17.476

If you think back to times when things have really shifted, they have rarely

00:28:17.476 --> 00:28:21.896

been, I think, or certainly for me anyway, but also with the people that I work with,

00:28:22.256 --> 00:28:27.696

they rarely are things that kind of creep up on you little bits at a time.

00:28:27.756 --> 00:28:33.856

They tend to be fairly impactful moments of generally quite high emotion as well.

00:28:33.856 --> 00:28:36.756

And yeah you know sometimes

00:28:36.756 --> 00:28:40.576

things will just snap into place and

00:28:40.576 --> 00:28:43.416

you just think actually i i i've had a moment of

00:28:43.416 --> 00:28:49.456

clarity here and it's funny that didn't give me the answers that i needed but

00:28:49.456 --> 00:28:54.716

it just made me ask a different question and somebody i was listening to an

00:28:54.716 --> 00:28:58.056

interview with somebody and they were talking not about alcohol but they were

00:28:58.056 --> 00:29:00.776

talking about when you're battling against yourself.

00:29:01.236 --> 00:29:06.496

He said, it's a bit like playing tennis and you're on both sides of the net.

00:29:06.636 --> 00:29:11.716

So it doesn't matter how hard you serve the ball, the ball will come back just as hard.

00:29:11.856 --> 00:29:16.836

And your opponent knows your every move. They know what, whichever shot is coming,

00:29:17.016 --> 00:29:18.936

they know how to respond to it.

00:29:18.996 --> 00:29:23.876

So you end up in this kind of war of attrition where you're both levering the

00:29:23.876 --> 00:29:27.136

ball backwards and forwards over the net. and it's a zero sum game.

00:29:27.356 --> 00:29:30.716

And that, that is how I felt at the time.

00:29:30.896 --> 00:29:35.356

But then there's this person that was being interviewed, said a really interesting thing.

00:29:35.436 --> 00:29:39.836

They said, well, but what if you beckoned that opponent over onto your side

00:29:39.836 --> 00:29:45.796

of the net and you became a doubles team, you would be invincible because you

00:29:45.796 --> 00:29:49.856

would know exactly what the other party was doing. You would barely even have to communicate.

00:29:49.996 --> 00:29:53.676

You would add value to each other and you'd be unbeatable.

00:29:53.796 --> 00:29:59.116

And that, for me, I think kind of gives me the essence of the man in the mirror moment.

00:29:59.236 --> 00:30:04.456

It was just, I finally beckoned myself onto my side of the net.

00:30:04.636 --> 00:30:12.556

And it started a very different conversation around what if I got curious rather

00:30:12.556 --> 00:30:18.376

than full of guilt and shame, what could make a difference?

00:30:18.456 --> 00:30:22.176

I just, I felt hopeful, probably for the first time in 30 years,

00:30:22.176 --> 00:30:27.316

that actually maybe, just maybe, I could do something about this. Yeah.

00:30:27.996 --> 00:30:34.536

Hope. Isn't hope, it's such a powerful feeling for us to have hope.

00:30:35.616 --> 00:30:40.596

So the question we want to know is, what happens when the train finishes?

00:30:42.776 --> 00:30:47.956

Well, so this was interesting. I called my boss and said, look,

00:30:47.996 --> 00:30:50.436

I'm not well, which was not a lie, let's be clear.

00:30:52.016 --> 00:30:58.296

And I said, I need to take a few days off. And I went back, went back home and said.

00:30:58.989 --> 00:31:03.369

I just thought, you know what? I think the answers are within me.

00:31:03.729 --> 00:31:11.309

And I went back to everything that I'd learned about selling and influencing, about coaching,

00:31:11.629 --> 00:31:18.489

about things like NLP and thought field therapy, tapping, all of these things

00:31:18.489 --> 00:31:24.109

I'd learned kind of incidentally throughout or as part of my career.

00:31:24.309 --> 00:31:30.149

And I just thought, you know what? I'm really good at changing how other people feel about things.

00:31:30.289 --> 00:31:35.549

What if, again, that phrase, what if I was to apply this to me?

00:31:35.669 --> 00:31:39.529

What would I do if somebody came to me looking for help with this?

00:31:39.609 --> 00:31:40.809

What would be the process?

00:31:41.149 --> 00:31:45.969

So I live near a little lake and it's got a little car park in it.

00:31:46.069 --> 00:31:49.429

It's a very beautiful little spot. And I literally piled everything into the car.

00:31:49.649 --> 00:31:55.729

And I spent three days from dawn till dusk with everything spread out over the

00:31:55.729 --> 00:31:57.869

dashboard, over the seats, on the floors and everything.

00:31:58.049 --> 00:31:59.829

And there was something quite interesting

00:31:59.829 --> 00:32:03.069

about being in a car because I thought the answers are in here.

00:32:03.469 --> 00:32:07.089

I just need to find them. And it gave me some real focus. Now,

00:32:07.109 --> 00:32:10.929

literally after three days, I emerged with a plan.

00:32:11.089 --> 00:32:15.829

And some of the things that I decided to push myself through.

00:32:16.409 --> 00:32:21.429

I had tried before, but just as sort of single interventions,

00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:26.269

let's say, and they'd helped it a little bit at the time, but they'd not got

00:32:26.269 --> 00:32:27.609

me the outcome I was looking for.

00:32:27.989 --> 00:32:34.069

And, but what I could see, I'd mapped this out, which was basically a sort of a seven stage process.

00:32:34.669 --> 00:32:38.529

And it was like, right, okay, so we start here and then we'll do a bit of this

00:32:38.529 --> 00:32:41.889

and then we'll throw that in and then we'll do this because that's the right

00:32:41.889 --> 00:32:43.209

time for that bit it to happen.

00:32:43.609 --> 00:32:47.369

And then we'll do that. We'll do that. And then that will set us up for a strategy

00:32:47.369 --> 00:32:48.589

for kind of moving forward.

00:32:49.129 --> 00:32:53.569

And so I just made a commitment to myself to start at the beginning,

00:32:54.109 --> 00:32:59.169

work my way through each part of it and not quit until I got to the end.

00:32:59.469 --> 00:33:03.829

And bit by bit, as I went through it, I could feel, and it's,

00:33:03.829 --> 00:33:08.489

I love, you know, that you acknowledge these kind of moments and there were

00:33:08.489 --> 00:33:11.749

just little clicks, just little moments of clarity where I was like,

00:33:11.749 --> 00:33:14.049

Like, ooh, that feels differently.

00:33:14.269 --> 00:33:16.989

And I remember going back in St. Louis at the end of the third day.

00:33:17.049 --> 00:33:18.989

I said, you know, something's happened here.

00:33:19.069 --> 00:33:22.789

I can't quite explain it, but I think I've really...

00:33:23.466 --> 00:33:30.026

Made some progress here. And she kind of side-eyed me and kind of went, yeah, okay.

00:33:32.006 --> 00:33:35.166

You know, actions do indeed speak louder than words.

00:33:35.286 --> 00:33:40.166

And I couldn't, I couldn't make her understand what was going on in my head, which is fine.

00:33:40.326 --> 00:33:45.646

Nobody can see what's going on inside anybody else's head, but I just felt optimistic.

00:33:45.766 --> 00:33:48.526

And I felt really clear about kind of where I was going.

00:33:48.786 --> 00:33:54.206

And days turned into a couple of weeks and I'm like, you know what, I'm doing okay here.

00:33:54.346 --> 00:33:59.386

And bearing in mind, I was all the baggage that I had from growing up in Shetland

00:33:59.386 --> 00:34:03.086

around you're a failure if you cannot drink.

00:34:03.306 --> 00:34:06.166

That meant that I didn't want to give up altogether.

00:34:06.526 --> 00:34:10.266

I just wanted to take a break. I wanted to feel better because I felt miserable.

00:34:10.506 --> 00:34:14.626

I felt sick and I needed to make that go away.

00:34:14.806 --> 00:34:19.946

But actually, now I look back on that with hindsight, I realize that that was

00:34:19.946 --> 00:34:23.906

a good thing because it meant I didn't put myself under too much pressure from the outset.

00:34:24.206 --> 00:34:28.506

I was just, again, coming at this from a position of curiosity.

00:34:29.226 --> 00:34:33.686

And I was like, right, okay, well, if I took a break, how might I feel?

00:34:33.826 --> 00:34:37.266

And so days turned into a few weeks. And I remember one morning,

00:34:37.346 --> 00:34:42.746

probably six or seven weeks in, I woke up, I'd slept really well.

00:34:42.966 --> 00:34:49.246

And I woke up and I just went, my God, I feel amazing.

00:34:50.006 --> 00:34:53.366

And, you know, don't get me wrong. Every morning is not like this for me.

00:34:53.406 --> 00:34:56.926

As I often say, it's not all butterflies and unicorns in Andy world.

00:34:57.406 --> 00:35:05.326

But the interesting thing was, I just thought, I can't remember the last time I felt like this.

00:35:05.366 --> 00:35:07.646

And I I thought, I don't want to let this go.

00:35:07.846 --> 00:35:10.346

It's too profound. It's again, it's a moment.

00:35:10.806 --> 00:35:16.226

And I thought I could choose to go back to being that guy that was sitting in

00:35:16.226 --> 00:35:20.726

the fridge and in Tesco supermarket contemplating all of his life choices,

00:35:20.746 --> 00:35:24.906

or I could feel like this. And it seemed just like a no brainer to me.

00:35:25.306 --> 00:35:30.946

And, and that was when I really sort of committed to, right. I'm,

00:35:31.541 --> 00:35:37.401

done with alcohol. I've had every hangover. I've had every embarrassing experience.

00:35:38.081 --> 00:35:41.601

There was one night I sat when Louise was away with our son,

00:35:41.661 --> 00:35:46.021

I was sat on my own and I drank a bottle of wine and a liter of gin,

00:35:46.181 --> 00:35:48.781

which is a lot by anybody's standards.

00:35:49.261 --> 00:35:54.001

And I couldn't square away the fact that when I woke up in the morning and I was.

00:35:54.561 --> 00:35:57.741

Staggered down to the kitchen and I looked at the empty bottle, my

00:35:57.741 --> 00:36:01.081

overwhelming feeling was actually pride I

00:36:01.081 --> 00:36:04.461

was like look go me you know I've fulfilled my destiny

00:36:04.461 --> 00:36:07.261

of being able to you know drink something that would

00:36:07.261 --> 00:36:13.061

kill somebody and I just thought wow how messed up is that and so I kind of

00:36:13.061 --> 00:36:16.861

went you know what I have nothing left to prove and I think that was the kind

00:36:16.861 --> 00:36:25.361

of final stage for me was actually I've done that I am happy to turn the page on that part of my life,

00:36:25.501 --> 00:36:31.521

I now realize that to not drink alcohol is not a sign of weakness.

00:36:31.641 --> 00:36:35.881

It's actually a sign of strength because we're obsessed with it.

00:36:36.001 --> 00:36:37.561

And things are changing.

00:36:37.721 --> 00:36:42.721

In the seven years I've been doing this, I've seen a massive shift in people's

00:36:42.721 --> 00:36:45.341

attitudes towards booze.

00:36:45.441 --> 00:36:52.641

I mean, in the UK, they reckon now one in three people under 25 don't drink alcohol at all.

00:36:52.641 --> 00:36:55.841

And when I grew up if

00:36:55.841 --> 00:36:58.801

you couldn't remember the night before you would

00:36:58.801 --> 00:37:01.721

just kid yourselves that you'd had this great night and well

00:37:01.721 --> 00:37:05.201

it must have been mustn't it because I don't remember it whereas

00:37:05.201 --> 00:37:09.841

now I do have a theory about this that I think if you go out and get completely

00:37:09.841 --> 00:37:15.541

blasted now there is real jeopardy because when I was growing up nobody had

00:37:15.541 --> 00:37:20.541

a camera there was no feedback loop that suggested anything other than you'd

00:37:20.541 --> 00:37:22.441

had this amazing night that you couldn't remember.

00:37:22.721 --> 00:37:25.861

Whereas now people will take a picture of you if you.

00:37:26.473 --> 00:37:29.573

Lose control you know you're sick on yourself or

00:37:29.573 --> 00:37:32.613

you pass out in the corner of the nightclub or

00:37:32.613 --> 00:37:37.813

something like that and all of a sudden you look at the reality of the situation

00:37:37.813 --> 00:37:44.213

and you go actually i'm not sure i am having that great a time there or maybe

00:37:44.213 --> 00:37:48.073

i'm hanging off somebody else and i'm just look you know my eyes are bloodshot

00:37:48.073 --> 00:37:51.053

and i don't look like i'm particularly enjoying joy in myself.

00:37:51.193 --> 00:37:56.313

So I think there is the jeopardy of humiliation of people sharing stuff on social

00:37:56.313 --> 00:38:00.313

media, but also there is that feedback loop where you can just kind of go,

00:38:00.513 --> 00:38:05.513

okay, that does not look like the amount of fun that maybe I was telling myself

00:38:05.513 --> 00:38:08.493

that it was. Yeah, absolutely.

00:38:09.133 --> 00:38:11.333

Going from from drinking that

00:38:11.333 --> 00:38:20.213

much alcohol to stopping, I have to imagine it had to be so difficult.

00:38:20.913 --> 00:38:26.413

Would you mind sharing with me a little bit of an overview of the next,

00:38:26.413 --> 00:38:32.313

you know, few weeks, months of not drinking and any maybe low moments or high

00:38:32.313 --> 00:38:34.433

moments that really stand out?

00:38:34.433 --> 00:38:41.153

I think, I mean, obviously there's a physical element of it where, I mean, I was blessed.

00:38:41.253 --> 00:38:45.453

I'm not, I didn't get, you know, huge kind of shakes and things like that.

00:38:45.693 --> 00:38:50.573

My sleep was terrible for the first couple of weeks. I felt anxious. I felt irritable.

00:38:51.093 --> 00:38:54.733

And so that side of it was tough. but actually i

00:38:54.733 --> 00:38:57.673

think the the biggest part of it was i've been

00:38:57.673 --> 00:39:00.533

drinking regularly since i was 13 years

00:39:00.533 --> 00:39:03.833

old and and here i am at the age of 50 going

00:39:03.833 --> 00:39:06.793

who is andy smith without a

00:39:06.793 --> 00:39:12.793

glass in his hand and you get a lot of kind of soul searching that goes on it's

00:39:12.793 --> 00:39:17.073

like right okay now i need to i need to learn how to relax without this stuff

00:39:17.073 --> 00:39:21.693

i need to learn how to socialize without this stuff I need to learn how to be

00:39:21.693 --> 00:39:24.153

fun Andy without this stuff.

00:39:24.313 --> 00:39:27.473

And it's almost like you're starting again.

00:39:27.773 --> 00:39:34.913

But when you learn this stuff and you kind of lean into these uncomfortable

00:39:34.913 --> 00:39:39.693

situations where you go out with your friends and you think,

00:39:39.733 --> 00:39:41.773

right, I'm not going to drink and I'm going to get questions.

00:39:41.993 --> 00:39:45.853

I'm going to have to justify what I'm doing and things like that.

00:39:45.913 --> 00:39:51.173

You start to see that, you know, everybody has very different views and takes on this.

00:39:51.213 --> 00:39:55.393

Some people are, they'll put an arm around you and go, that's brilliant.

00:39:55.493 --> 00:39:57.273

That's great. I've been worried about you for a while.

00:39:57.753 --> 00:40:01.453

Some people are like, Oh God, are you just going to be, you know,

00:40:01.453 --> 00:40:04.593

picking us up on all the crap that we say or something like that.

00:40:04.753 --> 00:40:09.173

And so you, you contend with a lot of different sort of reactions.

00:40:09.553 --> 00:40:16.373

But as you start to take these things off, and you go through experiences.

00:40:17.418 --> 00:40:20.518

Without this, and you realize that, oh, funnily enough, the world didn't end

00:40:20.518 --> 00:40:22.498

just because I wasn't drinking.

00:40:22.698 --> 00:40:26.258

I mean, I'll tell you an interesting, very quick story. But there's a guy that

00:40:26.258 --> 00:40:28.998

I was working with last summer, and he's a big cricket fan.

00:40:29.298 --> 00:40:34.118

We were working on his kind of ability to go to a cricket ground.

00:40:34.198 --> 00:40:37.358

He was semi-retired, and he said, look, he said, I spend most of my summer days

00:40:37.358 --> 00:40:40.398

sitting in a cricket ground drinking lager.

00:40:40.798 --> 00:40:43.958

And I need to find a new way to enjoy that experience.

00:40:44.118 --> 00:40:47.078

He's a mad keen cricket fan. and so we

00:40:47.078 --> 00:40:50.298

did quite a lot of work and he was doing really well and

00:40:50.298 --> 00:40:53.298

then we had a call and he said oh he says i've got

00:40:53.298 --> 00:40:55.978

an old university friend i see him a couple of

00:40:55.978 --> 00:40:58.938

times a year and he is not going

00:40:58.938 --> 00:41:02.118

to be happy that i'm not drinking i was

00:41:02.118 --> 00:41:05.398

like okay good okay we've got a we've got a challenge here and

00:41:05.398 --> 00:41:08.238

so he was going to cricket ground up in birmingham called edge

00:41:08.238 --> 00:41:10.958

baston on the saturday for a test

00:41:10.958 --> 00:41:13.958

match and his mate was going to be there let's

00:41:13.958 --> 00:41:16.998

call him dave Dave and he said I'm just really

00:41:16.998 --> 00:41:19.798

worried so we booked in a call we had

00:41:19.798 --> 00:41:22.498

a call on the Friday and then we we also penciled in

00:41:22.498 --> 00:41:25.178

one for the Monday to review how it had gone so

00:41:25.178 --> 00:41:28.078

on the Friday we literally were role playing out what

00:41:28.078 --> 00:41:31.938

he was going to say to Dave about all these kind of reasons for wanting to do

00:41:31.938 --> 00:41:38.338

it and and all this and he was really nervous about this and I was thinking

00:41:38.338 --> 00:41:43.238

about all weekend and I thought you know what I bet he's crumbled I bet this

00:41:43.238 --> 00:41:46.358

is going to be a step too far for him. He was really nervous about it.

00:41:46.458 --> 00:41:51.438

So nine o'clock Monday morning, I call him up, ring, ring, ring, ring.

00:41:51.878 --> 00:41:57.838

Hi. I said, so how did it go? And he just burst out laughing. And I was like, okay.

00:41:58.398 --> 00:42:03.818

Um, out of all the possible reactions that I was anticipating,

00:42:04.038 --> 00:42:05.758

I did not see that coming.

00:42:05.958 --> 00:42:10.698

I said, tell me more. And he said, well, I met Dave in the bar at 10 o'clock in the morning.

00:42:10.698 --> 00:42:13.498

And i started with the speech that we'd

00:42:13.498 --> 00:42:16.558

worked on and he said i got about two or

00:42:16.558 --> 00:42:20.038

three sentences in and then dave just held his hand up and said

00:42:20.038 --> 00:42:27.018

i'll stop you there and then he said thank f for that and this really threw

00:42:27.018 --> 00:42:32.118

him and he's like okay and dave said he said i've been meaning to say something

00:42:32.118 --> 00:42:37.158

to you for a while he said it's great to see you and i really enjoy coming but you know

00:42:37.178 --> 00:42:41.258

and they would sit and get completely and utterly blasted together normally

00:42:41.258 --> 00:42:43.958

and he said the thing is it's great to see you but he

00:42:43.958 --> 00:42:46.898

said i i go home in a right state he said my wife doesn't talk

00:42:46.898 --> 00:42:49.778

to me for six weeks afterwards um because i

00:42:49.778 --> 00:42:54.738

get myself in such a mess so they sat and they watched the cricket and this

00:42:54.738 --> 00:43:00.718

client of mine drank soda water and lime all day and dave had about three pints

00:43:00.718 --> 00:43:05.318

of lager over the course of the entire day my client gave him a lift home and

00:43:05.318 --> 00:43:07.898

and all was good. And we were just talking about that.

00:43:07.998 --> 00:43:12.238

And he said, he said, here's the thing, Andy, he said, it's the best day ever.

00:43:12.899 --> 00:43:20.519

We've had at the cricket for years. And so it takes real courage to follow your

00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:25.359

heart on this kind of stuff to kind of go, right, I'm going to grit my teeth.

00:43:25.419 --> 00:43:28.999

I'm going to get my big boy pants on and I'm going to square into this.

00:43:29.059 --> 00:43:34.079

So that conversation at 10 AM in the bar, he could have very easily choked and

00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:35.999

just gone, Oh, let's just have beers.

00:43:36.739 --> 00:43:41.339

And Dave would have gone home to his wife and, you know, been sleeping in the

00:43:41.339 --> 00:43:43.059

spare room and all that kind of stuff.

00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:48.339

And yet the, just the ability to have a different conversation.

00:43:48.359 --> 00:43:52.939

And I think there's so much in this in terms of we build all this stuff up in

00:43:52.939 --> 00:43:55.059

our own mind to be one way.

00:43:55.139 --> 00:44:01.079

And we're rarely right in terms of what the actual reality of the situation is.

00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:05.579

And when I'm working with people, it's just really really interesting when I,

00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:07.039

you're starting to unpick.

00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:10.359

I mean, a lot of this is about fear and it's like, well, what's this person

00:44:10.359 --> 00:44:12.319

going to see and how am I going to cope with a family wedding?

00:44:12.399 --> 00:44:15.419

Oh, we've got a family barbecue coming up and what am I going to do?

00:44:15.539 --> 00:44:19.819

And it's like, right, all we need to do is find the bravery to just see this through.

00:44:19.959 --> 00:44:26.379

And then we've got some learning and invariably it's not what people think it's going to be.

00:44:26.419 --> 00:44:29.279

And yeah, you know, there might be some people who are difficult and things

00:44:29.279 --> 00:44:33.499

like that, but generally it's not the fantasy that you've got in your mind.

00:44:33.579 --> 00:44:37.999

I often jokingly say to people, you know, when they're talking about a family

00:44:37.999 --> 00:44:40.859

wedding and things like that, I said, what do you actually think is going to happen?

00:44:41.019 --> 00:44:45.159

Do you think your family are going to pounce on you and pin you down and get

00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:47.459

a funnel and start pouring vodka down your throat?

00:44:47.619 --> 00:44:52.419

No, you might get a couple of stupid comments, but then nobody really gives a damn.

00:44:52.941 --> 00:44:57.601

And they will get on with their night. You'll get on with yours and it's fine.

00:44:57.921 --> 00:45:02.761

But we build this stuff up. And it's so much of this is an exercise against

00:45:02.761 --> 00:45:07.581

your own fear because in your comfort zones, they are bounded by fear.

00:45:07.681 --> 00:45:11.721

And the closer you get to the edge of the comfort zone, the scarier it is.

00:45:11.901 --> 00:45:17.101

And it doesn't matter if it's a job that, you know, a big job promotion,

00:45:17.221 --> 00:45:19.521

which is loads more money that you're more than capable of.

00:45:19.521 --> 00:45:22.521

You go in in through that process with

00:45:22.521 --> 00:45:25.981

am i am i good enough can i handle this

00:45:25.981 --> 00:45:30.901

am i worth it you know there's a great exercise that they did a number of years

00:45:30.901 --> 00:45:35.181

ago where they put a fake job ad in i think the new york times or something

00:45:35.181 --> 00:45:40.081

like that invited a load of people in for interview all of which were perfectly

00:45:40.081 --> 00:45:45.581

qualified for the job that was being advertised got them all in a room together.

00:45:45.681 --> 00:45:48.821

And then somebody came out and said, Oh, just to let you know,

00:45:48.881 --> 00:45:51.721

before you go in for your interview, we're terribly sorry.

00:45:51.861 --> 00:45:55.301

We've made a mistake with the job ad.

00:45:55.541 --> 00:45:59.201

Uh, we got the salary wrong. And of course, everybody looked at each other and

00:45:59.201 --> 00:46:00.901

rolled their eyes. Oh, here we go.

00:46:01.181 --> 00:46:03.801

We've been brought here under false pretenses.

00:46:04.281 --> 00:46:06.421

They're going to tell us it's kind of half the money.

00:46:06.981 --> 00:46:10.841

And they said, no, we, we actually missed the zero off the end of it.

00:46:10.841 --> 00:46:18.361

So the $25,000 job was actually 250,000 and half the people walked out because

00:46:18.361 --> 00:46:22.161

they went, well, that's just not me, even though they were all qualified enough to do the job.

00:46:22.421 --> 00:46:28.381

So, so much of this in life is around how do I get out of my own way?

00:46:28.861 --> 00:46:35.621

And that was very much, you know, my man in the mirror moment and just coming up against my own fear.

00:46:36.181 --> 00:46:37.961

And when you do that once...

00:46:38.762 --> 00:46:42.942

You start to ask yourself very different questions in life. Yeah.

00:46:43.222 --> 00:46:48.342

You know, the one word that you said that I keep coming back to is courage.

00:46:48.902 --> 00:46:55.262

Yeah. And I look at this and I think it speaks so highly of this idea of courage

00:46:55.262 --> 00:46:57.462

within ourselves to make a change.

00:46:58.362 --> 00:47:04.662

Courage of the guy to be the one to do something different, friend,

00:47:04.662 --> 00:47:10.342

to not do the norm, to, to, you know, be that, that purple,

00:47:10.542 --> 00:47:13.422

you know, striped zebra in amongst

00:47:13.422 --> 00:47:17.582

all of the black and white ones to go against it. It takes courage.

00:47:17.862 --> 00:47:23.602

And yet what I love about it is sometimes if we can have that courage,

00:47:23.842 --> 00:47:28.982

look at the change that it made, not just in his life, but in his friend's life.

00:47:29.302 --> 00:47:33.562

Yeah. You know? And I mean, and that's where I just, I come back to courage.

00:47:33.842 --> 00:47:39.622

If we can adopt the courage to do the things that we know we want to do,

00:47:39.702 --> 00:47:43.782

that we need to do, the impact is just monumental.

00:47:44.162 --> 00:47:50.722

Oh, absolutely. And when you learn sort of what works once, you do start to

00:47:50.722 --> 00:47:51.742

ask yourself different questions.

00:47:51.842 --> 00:47:55.982

After I got sober, I started to ask myself questions.

00:47:56.242 --> 00:48:00.922

Well, I've just done something that I thought was genuinely impossible for me.

00:48:01.002 --> 00:48:07.622

What else have I talked myself out of that I would have always liked to have

00:48:07.622 --> 00:48:11.962

done in my life, but just listen to that internal voice that says,

00:48:12.022 --> 00:48:14.542

nah, you're not good enough. You're not strong enough.

00:48:14.682 --> 00:48:18.102

You're not fast enough. You're too fat, too thin, too young, too old.

00:48:18.402 --> 00:48:24.502

And I started to look around for other ways to sort of test this hypothesis

00:48:24.502 --> 00:48:29.742

is could I possibly be maybe a little bit better than.

00:48:30.652 --> 00:48:35.672

I thought I was. And for me, it was when I rode the Tour de France on my bike.

00:48:35.812 --> 00:48:42.092

And that was a very interesting part of this journey, because actually the metaphor

00:48:42.092 --> 00:48:48.452

between doing another thing that was, quote unquote, impossible for me.

00:48:48.712 --> 00:48:52.292

Make no mistake, I am not a cyclist. You look at my picture,

00:48:52.372 --> 00:48:55.172

I am not built like these guys that do this kind of stuff.

00:48:55.372 --> 00:49:02.332

But I had read a book back in, I think around about 2008, 2009,

00:49:02.812 --> 00:49:04.392

called French Revolutions.

00:49:04.532 --> 00:49:08.812

And it was a journalist who went and rode the course of the Tour de France.

00:49:08.952 --> 00:49:13.852

And he started off being fairly cynical about these guys and the brightly colored

00:49:13.852 --> 00:49:15.532

lycra and all this kind of stuff.

00:49:15.832 --> 00:49:22.172

And it's a very funny book in terms of his experiences, but also the sort of

00:49:22.172 --> 00:49:28.132

admiration that he started to feel towards these guys in terms of the sheer

00:49:28.132 --> 00:49:30.652

enormity of what they were taking on.

00:49:30.692 --> 00:49:34.332

I'd read this and I thought, oh, wouldn't it be so cool to do that one day?

00:49:34.432 --> 00:49:39.272

And of course, now armed with a what's next kind of mentality,

00:49:39.632 --> 00:49:43.212

I just started Googling some things about ride the course of the Tour de France.

00:49:43.272 --> 00:49:46.992

And I found a charity that did that very thing.

00:49:47.092 --> 00:49:52.312

And I phoned them up and I said, look, I said, is this what you do? Am I reading that right?

00:49:52.532 --> 00:49:57.252

You can go and ride the entire course of the Tour de France for this kids' charity that they have.

00:49:58.852 --> 00:50:01.472

And they're like, yeah, that's exactly what we do. And I was like,

00:50:01.512 --> 00:50:03.252

wow, okay, I'd like some more information.

00:50:03.412 --> 00:50:07.732

They said, well, I'll kind of stop you there because actually it's completely

00:50:07.732 --> 00:50:10.812

sold out. And this was, I don't know, late 2017.

00:50:11.432 --> 00:50:14.972

This is when we were talking about the 2018 cycling season.

00:50:15.572 --> 00:50:20.052

And the lovely Sarah at the charity said, but if you want, we can put you on

00:50:20.052 --> 00:50:22.232

the waiting list. And I was like, yeah, sure.

00:50:22.552 --> 00:50:25.912

You know, here's my email address. Here's my, here's my telephone number.

00:50:26.012 --> 00:50:29.692

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not really thinking that anything was ever going to come of it.

00:50:29.732 --> 00:50:34.332

And then about six weeks later, the phone rang and bearing in mind,

00:50:34.352 --> 00:50:39.012

I was starting to look after myself a bit more and I was down the gym and things like that.

00:50:39.132 --> 00:50:42.832

And I'd lost a bit of weight and funnily enough, all of my health issues,

00:50:43.092 --> 00:50:46.092

both mental and physical were all starting to resolve solve themselves.

00:50:46.732 --> 00:50:50.432

And so the phone rang and it was Sarah and she said, right, okay,

00:50:50.512 --> 00:50:54.432

Andy, well, this is the phone call you're either excited about or dreading,

00:50:54.432 --> 00:50:57.352

but somebody's pulled out. You're next on the list.

00:50:57.792 --> 00:51:02.472

There's a place on the 2018 tour for you, but we need an answer in two hours.

00:51:02.792 --> 00:51:05.532

And I was like, oh, okay, fine.

00:51:06.012 --> 00:51:09.412

Thank you. Went away and had a chat with Louise about it.

00:51:09.572 --> 00:51:13.752

And she said, she said, look, if you take this, would you put the training in?

00:51:13.792 --> 00:51:16.732

I was like, yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I need to because...

00:51:17.563 --> 00:51:21.663

I am, you know, not a cyclist by any stretch. I didn't even own a bike,

00:51:21.683 --> 00:51:22.803

bearing in mind at this stage.

00:51:23.283 --> 00:51:27.043

And then she asked me a very interesting question.

00:51:27.183 --> 00:51:30.303

She said, okay, because I was now in a situation where I was going to have to

00:51:30.303 --> 00:51:33.023

say no, if I was not going to do it.

00:51:33.063 --> 00:51:37.163

It wasn't just let the universe kind of gradually talk me out of it.

00:51:37.843 --> 00:51:41.203

And she asked me a really interesting question. She said, if you say no,

00:51:41.383 --> 00:51:42.603

how are you going to feel?

00:51:42.843 --> 00:51:46.483

And I said, well, I think I will regret it for the rest of my life.

00:51:47.123 --> 00:51:49.883

And she said, well, there's your answer. And I'm like, yeah,

00:51:49.943 --> 00:51:53.663

but you know, it's three weeks and I had a young son and it's kind of,

00:51:53.723 --> 00:51:55.943

you're gonna, and she said, we'll sort all that stuff out.

00:51:56.003 --> 00:51:59.083

Just if you've got to give them an answer, just tell them yes.

00:51:59.263 --> 00:52:00.163

And we'll work it all out.

00:52:00.463 --> 00:52:04.643

And boy, what an adventure that was. You know, I've read all the books.

00:52:05.023 --> 00:52:09.183

I've learned all the theory about performance and things like that,

00:52:09.243 --> 00:52:13.883

but I'll tell you on the roads of France for three weeks in the summer of 2018,

00:52:13.883 --> 00:52:19.063

18, I just spent the whole time going, oh, now I understand.

00:52:21.563 --> 00:52:26.623

Oh, my goodness, man. What an amazing story.

00:52:26.843 --> 00:52:33.583

Now, you got to talk to me. How long did you end up having to prepare before it started?

00:52:33.943 --> 00:52:40.663

So I had about, I think, just a little over six months. OK, so which is enough.

00:52:41.343 --> 00:52:44.123

I'm going to train through the winter and things like that. And,

00:52:44.123 --> 00:52:46.523

but building, building miles.

00:52:46.603 --> 00:52:51.863

I remember the first time I went and rode 60 miles and I was destroyed at the end of it.

00:52:51.903 --> 00:52:55.403

And I was on the one hand, I was like, this is great.

00:52:55.803 --> 00:52:58.783

I've just done 60 miles. That's the furthest I've ever ridden.

00:52:59.083 --> 00:53:02.903

Then on the other hand, I'm going, yeah, but you know, I've got to do three

00:53:02.903 --> 00:53:04.823

times this in terms of effort.

00:53:04.943 --> 00:53:10.943

If you include the climbing, you know, every day for three weeks and it was like, oh, okay.

00:53:10.943 --> 00:53:14.203

So sometimes you see a little bit of the enormity of

00:53:14.203 --> 00:53:17.163

the challenge ahead and by this point they'd announced the

00:53:17.163 --> 00:53:21.783

the route and i was looking at stage 12 which is what they call the queen stage

00:53:21.783 --> 00:53:28.243

which is like the biggest individual day and it's about 120 miles and about

00:53:28.243 --> 00:53:33.523

three quarters of the height of everest in terms of vertical in one day and

00:53:33.523 --> 00:53:35.043

i was looking at that and i was just

00:53:35.478 --> 00:53:42.438

I don't know how I can even contemplate doing that, but bit by bit,

00:53:42.538 --> 00:53:43.938

I got fitter and I got stronger.

00:53:44.038 --> 00:53:47.698

And there's a, there's a hill that I used to train on near where I live.

00:53:47.818 --> 00:53:53.038

And the first time I went out on a training ride, I did it, I think in 11 minutes and 23 seconds.

00:53:53.938 --> 00:53:57.738

And, and I was like, okay, that's my benchmark. And so I just kept chipping

00:53:57.738 --> 00:53:59.178

away, chipping away, chipping away.

00:53:59.778 --> 00:54:03.878

And every once in a while I would do a ride that would go and I would do that.

00:54:03.958 --> 00:54:08.038

And the time was coming down, going down in nine minutes and then eight minutes.

00:54:08.178 --> 00:54:09.778

And I was like, wow, this is pretty good actually.

00:54:10.378 --> 00:54:16.498

And, um, by the time, probably two weeks before the tour, I went out to do my

00:54:16.498 --> 00:54:21.278

last kind of big training ride and I went and did it and I did it in five minutes and 50 seconds.

00:54:22.978 --> 00:54:28.678

Wow. Isn't it extraordinary? Cause my body had put up with all the punishment

00:54:28.678 --> 00:54:30.498

and abuse that I'd given it for years.

00:54:31.158 --> 00:54:34.478

And I was grateful that it endured that.

00:54:34.958 --> 00:54:38.598

But actually now what I was doing, I was challenging it in a very different way.

00:54:38.718 --> 00:54:43.958

And I was like, wow, this is like, I'm now going nearly twice as fast up this mountain.

00:54:44.138 --> 00:54:49.418

Funnily enough, I went away and obviously did the tour. I lost 17 pounds in three weeks.

00:54:49.818 --> 00:54:56.038

And just burning, you know, I turned myself into a candle and just burned all the fat out.

00:54:56.418 --> 00:55:00.418

But I came back and even though I was full of cold after I got back,

00:55:00.418 --> 00:55:03.778

I thought, I'm going to try Remenham Hill again. And I did it in 507.

00:55:04.018 --> 00:55:10.678

And I just thought, wow, I'm, I'm, I'm a different person physically now than I was back then.

00:55:10.778 --> 00:55:15.598

And yes, it's been a journey, but I think a lot of the stuff about the,

00:55:15.718 --> 00:55:23.238

the tour taught me about when you, and I think the parallels for a sobriety journey are.

00:55:23.892 --> 00:55:29.492

Are really valid in terms of whenever you think about the enormity of what you're

00:55:29.492 --> 00:55:33.992

trying to achieve, given that you've not done this before, you tend to get freaked

00:55:33.992 --> 00:55:37.312

out and you tend to sort of give up almost before you start.

00:55:37.492 --> 00:55:45.672

So you need to have a way to stay focused, to break things down into smaller chunks.

00:55:45.812 --> 00:55:49.272

Now people talk about, you know, smart goals and things like that.

00:55:49.352 --> 00:55:53.072

I've I've never really kind of bought that. I think your goals should be unachievable,

00:55:53.112 --> 00:55:58.772

but you need to have something to focus on in the moment because I spent most

00:55:58.772 --> 00:56:04.152

of those three weeks thinking about the Champs-Élysées at the end of stage 21

00:56:04.152 --> 00:56:07.132

and just overwhelming myself every time.

00:56:07.292 --> 00:56:13.252

But every morning there was a guy that got up at four o'clock and signposted

00:56:13.252 --> 00:56:16.292

the route for the day and he put yellow arrows on the lampposts.

00:56:16.292 --> 00:56:19.712

And and it just meant that when you

00:56:19.712 --> 00:56:22.392

came up to a roundabout or an intersection if the

00:56:22.392 --> 00:56:25.212

arrow said go straight on you went straight on if it said left

00:56:25.212 --> 00:56:28.812

you went left it went said right you went right you didn't question it because

00:56:28.812 --> 00:56:33.732

there was enough trust in his ability to signpost the route and it just meant

00:56:33.732 --> 00:56:40.052

that you didn't have to worry you just went okay what do i do today i'm just

00:56:40.052 --> 00:56:45.032

going to follow the yellow arrows and i'm going to keep turning the pedals and sometimes those

00:56:45.172 --> 00:56:48.612

revolutions of the pedals going up a mountain were really, really hard.

00:56:48.752 --> 00:56:54.352

And sometimes you're zipping along through a valley with all your mates around

00:56:54.352 --> 00:56:56.052

you, and it's just joyous.

00:56:56.192 --> 00:57:02.412

I think I worked out that I made nearly 1 million revolutions of the pedals,

00:57:02.652 --> 00:57:05.312

and every single one of them was necessary.

00:57:05.592 --> 00:57:11.092

Some of them I loved, some of them I deeply hated, but they all got me to the

00:57:11.092 --> 00:57:13.052

Champs-Élysées in Paris.

00:57:13.232 --> 00:57:19.332

And I think that understanding of there are good days, there are bad days.

00:57:19.592 --> 00:57:25.692

Somebody advised me before we went to France that said, there will be days that

00:57:25.692 --> 00:57:30.712

you will wake up and you'll just go, I can't do this. And.

00:57:31.391 --> 00:57:35.011

He said, he said, you'll just want to cry all day. And that's true.

00:57:35.071 --> 00:57:36.551

It definitely got to that point.

00:57:36.791 --> 00:57:42.031

And in those moments, it was like, right, just get on your bike and just follow the yellow arrows.

00:57:42.151 --> 00:57:45.651

And if you follow the yellow arrows, you'll get fed when you need to be fed

00:57:45.651 --> 00:57:50.511

and you will have a bed for the night at the end of it, no matter how long it takes you.

00:57:50.571 --> 00:57:57.851

So just get small and just, you know, really focusing on what the task is at hand.

00:57:58.011 --> 00:58:02.591

And I remember at the top of stage 19, the final mountain stage,

00:58:02.851 --> 00:58:04.311

got to the top of the final climb.

00:58:04.391 --> 00:58:08.591

And I went live on Facebook and, um, there was quite a few people were following

00:58:08.591 --> 00:58:10.871

my journey and my video blogs and things like that.

00:58:11.211 --> 00:58:15.331

And I was like, Oh, here I am, you know, the top of the top of the mountain,

00:58:15.411 --> 00:58:16.691

we've got two stages to go.

00:58:16.971 --> 00:58:21.551

There was a short stage, stage 20, uh, which was the time trial.

00:58:21.791 --> 00:58:25.931

And then there was the ceremonial run into Paris stage 21.

00:58:26.331 --> 00:58:29.111

And so here I was at the top of the the final mountain. And,

00:58:29.171 --> 00:58:33.651

and I was like, yeah, it's like, it's like being in a football game where,

00:58:33.731 --> 00:58:41.311

you know, it's, you're, you're two one ahead and you're soccer, obviously, um.

00:58:42.171 --> 00:58:44.991

Two one ahead, but maybe there's three minutes of extra time.

00:58:45.251 --> 00:58:49.231

And so, you know, you're in a really strong position, but you know, it's not quite done yet.

00:58:49.531 --> 00:58:52.611

And for the first time I allowed myself the

00:58:52.611 --> 00:58:55.671

luxury of maybe just thinking that my god i

00:58:55.671 --> 00:58:58.411

have just ridden the course of the tour

00:58:58.411 --> 00:59:02.011

de france and i burst into tears and and

00:59:02.011 --> 00:59:07.171

it was embarrassing because i was live on facebook and i'm like and it

00:59:07.171 --> 00:59:10.511

was just such a powerful moment and i've watched that video again subsequent

00:59:10.511 --> 00:59:14.951

it was funny there was about 20 people uh watched it live and then i went back

00:59:14.951 --> 00:59:18.191

in the following day and i think it had something like one and a half thousand

00:59:18.191 --> 00:59:22.111

views or something i was like oh god on Andy Pride on Skidbrook.

00:59:22.191 --> 00:59:27.931

But it was just the release of this kind of pent up emotion where I just thought,

00:59:28.051 --> 00:59:31.111

God, maybe I've finally done this.

00:59:31.311 --> 00:59:33.351

And there were so many moments where...

00:59:33.939 --> 00:59:38.439

Along the way where I came so close to just not completing.

00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:42.759

And all that stuff just adds up to make it this massive thing.

00:59:42.819 --> 00:59:46.319

And the following week, when Geraint Thomas, who won it that year.

00:59:47.059 --> 00:59:50.419

Somebody stuffed a microphone in his face at the end of stage 20,

00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:55.519

because the final stage, it's sort of customary not to attack the yellow jersey.

00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:00.019

So if you've won it at the end of stage 20, barring accidents, you've got it.

01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:03.079

And somebody stuck a microphone in his face and said,

01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:06.099

Oh, how does it feel to have won the Tour de France and he burst into

01:00:06.099 --> 01:00:11.419

tears and I was like I know exactly how he feels um but

01:00:11.419 --> 01:00:14.379

obviously he did it uh even though we did it on the same schedule

01:00:14.379 --> 01:00:17.499

I mean that queen stage of Alpe

01:00:17.499 --> 01:00:22.239

d'Huez he finished it at you know three in the afternoon I finished it at 11

01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:30.679

o'clock at night yes oh my goodness wow man your story is so incredible and

01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:36.859

in in And this story about the Tour de France is just absolutely unbelievable.

01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:45.279

But that was honestly just the light of the match for where you would go after that.

01:00:45.419 --> 01:00:50.879

And so before we get into where you would begin cycling after,

01:00:51.139 --> 01:00:58.059

what do you feel like you learned about yourself in those three weeks that kept

01:00:58.059 --> 01:01:01.099

you propelling forward of chasing after?

01:01:01.219 --> 01:01:03.999

This this idea this dream this goal

01:01:03.999 --> 01:01:07.419

yeah oh great question boy oh

01:01:07.419 --> 01:01:11.099

how long you got well let me just i guess there's probably

01:01:11.099 --> 01:01:14.659

a couple of things i think one is the

01:01:14.659 --> 01:01:22.459

value of persistence i think it's when you cycle up a big old mountain it's

01:01:22.459 --> 01:01:26.339

something that the mountain has been there for millions of years and it's going

01:01:26.339 --> 01:01:32.259

to be there for millions of years after you've gone and how you choose to experience it is all on you.

01:01:32.399 --> 01:01:35.559

The mountain just looks at you and just goes, all right, sunshine,

01:01:35.839 --> 01:01:36.959

let's see what you've got today.

01:01:37.539 --> 01:01:42.299

And so you go to lots of different places in your head.

01:01:42.419 --> 01:01:49.179

And I remember riding up the Calder Madeline on this infamous stage 12 and just

01:01:49.179 --> 01:01:52.859

the sort of, yeah, I can do it. I can do it. I'm feeling great.

01:01:52.959 --> 01:01:55.499

And then, oh no, I can't do it. I can't do it. Then yeah, I can.

01:01:55.619 --> 01:01:58.099

I'm feeling better again. Then, oh no, I can't do it. And,

01:01:58.668 --> 01:02:01.448

bear in mind it takes you two and a half hours to get up

01:02:01.448 --> 01:02:04.488

this mountain and by that point you're just kind of exhausted

01:02:04.488 --> 01:02:07.668

and it just you end up and just go like look just shut

01:02:07.668 --> 01:02:10.528

up and get on with it and i remember

01:02:10.528 --> 01:02:16.848

looking at a little kilometer marker about halfway up and and i was looking

01:02:16.848 --> 01:02:21.068

at i could see it up ahead and they they very helpfully put on these big climbs

01:02:21.068 --> 01:02:26.108

they count down how many kilometers to the top and i was looking at this kilometer

01:02:26.108 --> 01:02:29.428

marker and i'm thinking i think it's 14 kilometers to go.

01:02:29.988 --> 01:02:35.468

And then I'm thinking, nah, but I can't remember riding past the 15 kilometer one. So maybe it's 15.

01:02:35.848 --> 01:02:39.828

And then I'm thinking, well, if I think it's 14, and then I get there and it's

01:02:39.828 --> 01:02:43.888

15, I'm going to be crushed because I've got a kilometer more than I thought.

01:02:44.048 --> 01:02:47.588

So I'm going to, I'm going to assume it's 15, because then if it is 14,

01:02:47.788 --> 01:02:52.468

then I've got a free kilometer, you know, and all this insanity is going on in your head.

01:02:52.508 --> 01:02:57.028

And I'm sort of peddling away and this thing's, I'm like squinting and can I see it? Can I see it?

01:02:57.068 --> 01:02:59.888

And I got there and it was 14 kilometers to go.

01:02:59.928 --> 01:03:03.628

And I'm like, yeah, I've just got an extra kilometer that I didn't,

01:03:03.628 --> 01:03:06.348

you know, and it's such a mental game.

01:03:06.568 --> 01:03:10.928

And you get to the top of this mountain and you look back down and you think,

01:03:11.028 --> 01:03:15.988

wow, two hours ago, I was right the way back down there looking up and thinking,

01:03:16.008 --> 01:03:17.348

I'm never going to do this.

01:03:17.368 --> 01:03:20.308

And yet here I am looking back on where I was.

01:03:20.448 --> 01:03:24.228

And there was a really cool moment bearing in

01:03:24.228 --> 01:03:28.108

mind this was the this was the day that got me

01:03:28.108 --> 01:03:30.848

out on my bike in the pouring rain it's like

01:03:30.848 --> 01:03:34.468

right okay you're gonna have to get out and do 100 miles because that's

01:03:34.468 --> 01:03:38.068

what you've committed to do and it's a horrible day and

01:03:38.068 --> 01:03:41.268

but you're just gonna have to get on with it because that day scared me

01:03:41.268 --> 01:03:44.228

enough to kind of give it the respect that

01:03:44.228 --> 01:03:47.548

it deserved and so went over

01:03:47.548 --> 01:03:50.348

the col de madeleine went over the col de la croix de fer the

01:03:50.348 --> 01:03:53.808

good old iron cross the biggest climb in the whole tour and

01:03:53.808 --> 01:03:57.108

i was coming down we're heading to the most

01:03:57.108 --> 01:04:02.268

iconic climb of the tour de france alpe d'huez 21 hairpins and it's about the

01:04:02.268 --> 01:04:09.748

height of ben nevis in the uk about uh yeah about 1400 meters straight up and

01:04:09.748 --> 01:04:15.528

and i i got to the bottom i was i was riding up to the bottom of the climb and

01:04:15.528 --> 01:04:16.988

it was getting dark. It was about.

01:04:17.618 --> 01:04:20.558

10 to nine at night when I got to the bottom of the climb. And I'm like,

01:04:20.678 --> 01:04:23.038

you know what? I'm feeling okay here.

01:04:23.278 --> 01:04:28.598

And, and you're kind of looking at yourself and going, I never thought in a

01:04:28.598 --> 01:04:30.498

million years, I'd even be able to get this far.

01:04:30.678 --> 01:04:34.798

And yet here I am about to start the final climb. And actually I'm feeling way

01:04:34.798 --> 01:04:41.758

better than I thought I would until I got to the final food stop.

01:04:41.918 --> 01:04:45.978

So Yogi, the mechanic is there and he's got a mini bus and a big,

01:04:45.978 --> 01:04:48.338

big van with all this stuff.

01:04:48.418 --> 01:04:54.318

So I pulled in and topping my water bottles up, grabbing a banana and sitting

01:04:54.318 --> 01:04:59.958

on the back of the van where all the guys who'd given up for the day and they're

01:04:59.958 --> 01:05:02.678

all looking at me as if to say, what's he going to do?

01:05:03.458 --> 01:05:10.738

And I not considered quitting at all at any point during that day until I saw them.

01:05:10.978 --> 01:05:14.518

And all of a sudden, something really interesting happened. All the excuses,

01:05:14.678 --> 01:05:16.778

my knees were sore, my wrists were sore.

01:05:17.198 --> 01:05:20.778

And I was like, Oh God, you know, it's going to be two hours to get to the top.

01:05:20.838 --> 01:05:22.038

It's nine o'clock at night.

01:05:22.538 --> 01:05:27.918

This is a, this is a climb that most people would just come and do that one climb in the day.

01:05:28.138 --> 01:05:31.018

You know, you've, you've already proven so much to yourself,

01:05:31.158 --> 01:05:34.218

Andy, nobody's going to be critical if you give up.

01:05:34.418 --> 01:05:39.218

I'm like, wow, I've got this whirlwind in my head going on.

01:05:39.518 --> 01:05:43.358

And it was funny that Yogi, the mechanic, he's kind of, you know,

01:05:43.358 --> 01:05:45.358

just helping me get a few little snacks and stuff.

01:05:45.678 --> 01:05:49.218

And you obviously saw what was going on and you just went, you're right, Andy.

01:05:49.678 --> 01:05:52.978

And I was like, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm okay.

01:05:53.578 --> 01:05:57.058

And he went, good lad. And just to kind of snap me out of it.

01:05:57.158 --> 01:06:00.218

And so I put my water bottles on the bike and, and it's funny,

01:06:00.298 --> 01:06:05.378

the minute I swung my leg back over the crossbar, I remembered why I was doing in this.

01:06:05.438 --> 01:06:08.678

I was raising a load of money for charity. I was proving something to myself.

01:06:08.858 --> 01:06:12.418

And I thought, you know what, if you don't do this, you're going to be the guy

01:06:12.418 --> 01:06:15.018

that rode most of the Tour de France, not all of it.

01:06:15.098 --> 01:06:18.898

And so the minute I started turning the pedals, all this kind of noise just

01:06:18.898 --> 01:06:21.278

went away. And I'm like, yeah, okay, we're back on it.

01:06:21.378 --> 01:06:26.238

And so I'm working my way up this, these 21 hairpins, it's getting darker and

01:06:26.238 --> 01:06:28.298

darker and darker. And eventually it's pitch black.

01:06:28.478 --> 01:06:31.358

And obviously when you're in the mountains, curtains you know there are

01:06:31.358 --> 01:06:34.578

no there's no ambient light it's just completely dark i

01:06:34.578 --> 01:06:37.418

guess you know i'm talking to somebody who really really

01:06:37.418 --> 01:06:41.058

understands that and i you've

01:06:41.058 --> 01:06:45.058

just got this little pool of light in front of you uh maybe 10 feet across from

01:06:45.058 --> 01:06:48.458

your your light and you're going along and there's people driving past in cars

01:06:48.458 --> 01:06:53.598

and everybody's tooting you know they can see what you're doing and and nobody's

01:06:53.598 --> 01:06:56.598

being critical everybody you know there's kids hanging out windows and go,

01:06:56.698 --> 01:06:58.198

go, go, go. And all this kind of stuff.

01:06:58.898 --> 01:07:05.738

And, and then this vehicle comes up alongside me and it's Yogi in the driving this mini bus.

01:07:06.058 --> 01:07:10.318

And he pulls up alongside and I can just make out in the glow of the headlights.

01:07:10.418 --> 01:07:12.338

I can see his face and he just gave me a little nod,

01:07:12.892 --> 01:07:17.012

And I kind of nodded back and I turned, I looked and I could see all the guys

01:07:17.012 --> 01:07:18.732

who'd given up sitting in the back.

01:07:18.992 --> 01:07:22.272

And I'll tell you, if you want to know what regret looks like,

01:07:22.332 --> 01:07:24.772

that it was etched on all of their faces.

01:07:26.272 --> 01:07:30.872

And I'm willing to bet that any one of them at that moment would have given the choice.

01:07:30.932 --> 01:07:33.552

It probably would have got out of the van and got back on their bikes again,

01:07:33.672 --> 01:07:37.692

but they made a choice at the bottom for all sorts of very good reasons.

01:07:37.772 --> 01:07:42.112

Let's be clear, you know, and who knows, but it's just interesting that when

01:07:42.112 --> 01:07:46.072

you get these moments of doubt, these moments where you have to make a choice.

01:07:46.892 --> 01:07:51.372

It's, is there a choice that is going to bring regret further down the line?

01:07:51.412 --> 01:07:54.972

And what can you do to avoid making that choice?

01:07:55.052 --> 01:08:00.752

And generally, and certainly for me, it's remind yourself why you're doing this.

01:08:00.892 --> 01:08:03.552

You know, you have to have a really good answer to the question.

01:08:03.692 --> 01:08:05.932

You know, why would I put myself through this?

01:08:06.432 --> 01:08:10.232

And for me, it was, you know, I knew a lot of people were watching,

01:08:10.352 --> 01:08:13.752

so a bit of peer pressure was good but actually i i'd

01:08:13.752 --> 01:08:16.872

raised a lot of money for this kid's charity and i thought am i

01:08:16.872 --> 01:08:19.792

gonna have to give this back if i i don't do

01:08:19.792 --> 01:08:25.072

this climb and sometimes you're just clutching anything that you can use in

01:08:25.072 --> 01:08:32.552

that moment but i was i was 50 50 and it just took yogi to go you're right to

01:08:32.552 --> 01:08:37.592

just kind of shake me out of it a little bit and the minute i got back going i'm

01:08:37.612 --> 01:08:40.912

like no I made the right choice but I came really close

01:08:40.912 --> 01:08:43.832

and yeah you know that

01:08:43.832 --> 01:08:46.672

is that moment changed me for the

01:08:46.672 --> 01:08:50.572

rest of my life because when you're

01:08:50.572 --> 01:08:58.892

presented with a a real dilemma like that let's call it it's yeah you learn

01:08:58.892 --> 01:09:05.732

a lot about yourself and I went on to ride slightly bigger mountains after the

01:09:05.732 --> 01:09:10.052

tour and lent back on all of this kind of stuff.

01:09:10.172 --> 01:09:16.952

Because when you start to get up to even higher mountains, it really makes you

01:09:16.952 --> 01:09:20.872

call upon whatever is within you. Yeah, absolutely.

01:09:22.712 --> 01:09:29.232

Man, so incredibly powerful. Not only just the story, but the mindset,

01:09:29.412 --> 01:09:32.512

this idea of choices, the idea of regret,

01:09:32.792 --> 01:09:40.472

so many powerful life lessons all contained within a three-week Tour de France journey.

01:09:41.132 --> 01:09:45.372

Remarkable. Thank you. I would love, one of my kind of last questions today

01:09:45.372 --> 01:09:50.452

is, here you are, this man who.

01:09:51.819 --> 01:09:58.799

You made a massive change, not just to stop drinking, but literally to go against

01:09:58.799 --> 01:10:04.819

basically your culture growing up, to go against everything you knew.

01:10:04.959 --> 01:10:08.279

You then embark on this whole new journey of cycling.

01:10:08.519 --> 01:10:10.419

You take on the Tour de France.

01:10:10.999 --> 01:10:19.119

How does your life look different today than it did before that day at the train

01:10:19.119 --> 01:10:22.239

tracks? I think there's a bit of purpose.

01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:27.599

I think, I think when you, you kind of suffer the way I did,

01:10:27.659 --> 01:10:33.979

and you transcend it, you get very keen to make sure that other people don't

01:10:33.979 --> 01:10:35.679

have to suffer the way you did.

01:10:35.879 --> 01:10:40.639

And I'm enormously passionate about helping other people now.

01:10:40.639 --> 01:10:48.099

And I think a lot of the cycling and the stuff, I've ridden my bike up to Everest Base Camp as well.

01:10:48.219 --> 01:10:55.739

And I do these things for charity because I spent quite a lot of my life hating myself.

01:10:56.539 --> 01:11:00.579

And I now do things that I would consider to be the antidote.

01:11:00.619 --> 01:11:04.639

I like to do things that made me feel better about being me.

01:11:04.639 --> 01:11:08.819

But I've always had a desire to help other people.

01:11:08.859 --> 01:11:14.839

And I felt so frustrated and so angry at the kind of the ineffectiveness of

01:11:14.839 --> 01:11:19.159

some of the options that were available to me when I was looking for help,

01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:22.819

that when I got something that, you know, and let's be clear,

01:11:22.859 --> 01:11:27.319

there are no universal sort of panaceas for anything.

01:11:27.319 --> 01:11:33.219

Anything, but something that would appear to be a little bit more up to date

01:11:33.219 --> 01:11:38.139

on this and perhaps more proven in the commercial world to work.

01:11:38.339 --> 01:11:41.699

I just got super passionate about wanting to share that.

01:11:41.819 --> 01:11:47.659

I got super passionate about wanting to challenge the narrative that your life

01:11:47.659 --> 01:11:50.699

gets worse when you're not drinking alcohol.

01:11:50.899 --> 01:11:56.319

I wanted to show everybody that my life got better and better and better and better.

01:11:56.879 --> 01:12:03.279

And just to give people some hope, whether you want to work with me or not, it doesn't matter.

01:12:03.499 --> 01:12:08.479

I just want to plant seeds that make you think, actually, you know what,

01:12:08.539 --> 01:12:10.859

that guy made it and maybe I can too.

01:12:11.579 --> 01:12:15.779

And it's been better than I could have possibly dreamed.

01:12:15.939 --> 01:12:20.919

If somebody went back in time to 2016 and said, right, okay,

01:12:20.939 --> 01:12:24.339

Andy, in six or seven years time.

01:12:24.559 --> 01:12:28.399

You'll have ridden the Tour de France. You'll have helped 6,000 people get sober.

01:12:28.599 --> 01:12:32.779

You'll have ridden your mountain bike across the Arctic Circle.

01:12:33.039 --> 01:12:35.359

You'll have ridden your bike up Mount Everest.

01:12:35.659 --> 01:12:43.519

You will be pursuing going and doing a mountain bike race in the snow across Alaska. I would have...

01:12:43.978 --> 01:12:47.698

Rejected that out of hand because you'd

01:12:47.698 --> 01:12:50.418

have been talking about somebody else and yet here we

01:12:50.418 --> 01:12:53.978

are and and that is just such a life-affirming

01:12:53.978 --> 01:12:56.858

thing to happen you go oh my goodness you

01:12:56.858 --> 01:13:00.898

know each time i push myself i

01:13:00.898 --> 01:13:05.018

you know don't get me wrong there are plenty of things that i can't do but actually

01:13:05.018 --> 01:13:11.858

i i exceed my own limitations every time i choose to do these things and in

01:13:11.858 --> 01:13:18.498

one of my favorite it quotes is that life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond to it.

01:13:18.558 --> 01:13:20.758

And, you know, bad stuff happens in life.

01:13:20.838 --> 01:13:24.718

And my goodness, you know, when I come across people like yourself,

01:13:24.818 --> 01:13:31.698

who've dealt with the most extreme challenges and yet rise above it and choose

01:13:31.698 --> 01:13:35.998

to bring light to other people's worlds,

01:13:36.198 --> 01:13:39.598

you know, I get to spend time talking to people like you now.

01:13:39.598 --> 01:13:43.838

And, you know, I don't want to be kind of like, sound like a total psychophant

01:13:43.838 --> 01:13:49.078

about it, but it's kind of, it's so different to the guy at the train tracks

01:13:49.078 --> 01:13:53.178

who was just getting by, who hated himself,

01:13:53.458 --> 01:13:59.018

who was probably in danger of ruining another relationship, who was...

01:13:59.849 --> 01:14:03.509

Teaching his kids that life's just really hard.

01:14:03.709 --> 01:14:09.589

And the only way you'll get by is to obliviate yourself every evening.

01:14:09.849 --> 01:14:14.189

I teach my children much better lessons. My daughter is now a world famous actress.

01:14:14.429 --> 01:14:15.969

My son has gone to university.

01:14:16.409 --> 01:14:20.349

My youngest is just, makes me laugh every day.

01:14:20.769 --> 01:14:25.089

And it's just life is, it's just different now.

01:14:25.309 --> 01:14:31.109

And yeah, there are some things that you kind of go, oh, it'd be quite nice

01:14:31.109 --> 01:14:37.509

to go back to that kind of chaos or that, you know, just letting go and not

01:14:37.509 --> 01:14:39.869

having to kind of stare this stuff down.

01:14:40.089 --> 01:14:44.289

And then you pinch yourself and you go, yeah, but boy, what,

01:14:44.389 --> 01:14:47.829

what an adventure I have opened up for myself here.

01:14:48.269 --> 01:14:55.209

You know, riding your bike up Mount Everest is kind of something that not many people get to do.

01:14:55.209 --> 01:15:02.169

And you just go, well, I've just created this opportunity for myself by virtue

01:15:02.169 --> 01:15:03.509

of the choices that I've made.

01:15:03.609 --> 01:15:09.509

So, you know, if there is an overall message, I guess it's about choices.

01:15:09.709 --> 01:15:16.229

For me, the very definition of addiction is, yes, it's a choice to drink or not drink.

01:15:16.409 --> 01:15:23.149

But for me, I did not feel able to make the choice that I so desperately wanted to.

01:15:23.149 --> 01:15:29.369

And actually to get back to the place where you feel like you can make a choice

01:15:29.369 --> 01:15:31.529

is very life-affirming.

01:15:31.649 --> 01:15:37.069

I would argue it feels almost like a second chance. Yeah, absolutely.

01:15:38.229 --> 01:15:42.329

Andy, I have one last question, but before I ask you that,

01:15:42.549 --> 01:15:47.229

will you please share with us how we can get plugged into your world,

01:15:47.349 --> 01:15:53.149

how we can keep up to date with what you've got going on, on where life is taking

01:15:53.149 --> 01:15:55.029

you, where can we send people.

01:15:55.744 --> 01:16:01.524

So obviously my website is soberin7.com. So just all the words, soberin7.com.

01:16:01.704 --> 01:16:06.164

All my socials on Insta, Facebook, I tend not to do much on the X.

01:16:06.444 --> 01:16:10.504

You know, if you just search soberin7, you'll find me. And yeah,

01:16:10.604 --> 01:16:14.064

you know, things like the, I'll be keeping people up to date with the training

01:16:14.064 --> 01:16:16.684

for the Iditarod in Alaska.

01:16:17.244 --> 01:16:23.644

I've got qualifying races to do this winter in Norway and Finland and places like that.

01:16:24.004 --> 01:16:27.724

And you can go to the website, you can fill the form out and ask questions.

01:16:28.264 --> 01:16:32.564

I've got a free web class on there where I talk a bit about my story and a bit

01:16:32.564 --> 01:16:36.584

more about the process that I followed to get sober.

01:16:37.164 --> 01:16:42.824

So yeah, swing on by, you know, I'd love to chat with anybody who feels like

01:16:42.824 --> 01:16:45.924

maybe this has resonated, maybe this has struck a chord.

01:16:46.184 --> 01:16:51.724

Maybe, you know, I was looking for somebody, and I think this is probably one

01:16:51.724 --> 01:16:56.904

of my disappointments with going to AA, I went there looking for somebody I

01:16:56.904 --> 01:16:59.864

could point at and go, I want to be where you are.

01:17:00.384 --> 01:17:03.824

And I didn't find them. And so I want to be that guy for people.

01:17:03.984 --> 01:17:06.864

I want to be the one that's like, you know what, actually, yeah,

01:17:06.924 --> 01:17:13.044

I might not want to ride the Tour de France, but I kind of like how he's transcended this.

01:17:13.224 --> 01:17:17.944

And I like the fact, you know, I've got a lady, I get emails all the time with

01:17:17.944 --> 01:17:19.624

people who just do the most amazing things.

01:17:19.624 --> 01:17:23.264

One lady, she rediscovered her childhood love

01:17:23.264 --> 01:17:26.064

of crochet for goodness sake and she's in

01:17:26.064 --> 01:17:29.244

my facebook group and we were all having a bit of a laugh about it and then she started

01:17:29.244 --> 01:17:32.324

putting some pictures up and i was like wow you're

01:17:32.324 --> 01:17:36.264

really good and then she sent me a message and she said andy i've just been

01:17:36.264 --> 01:17:40.944

contacted by my local college to be their crochet instructor on their arts and

01:17:40.944 --> 01:17:45.824

crafts and i'm like that is so cool you know and that is her tour de france

01:17:45.824 --> 01:17:50.204

and i get these emails where it's like andy you're not going to believe this dot,

01:17:50.204 --> 01:17:52.524

dot, dot, dot, dot. And I'm like, try me. I will.

01:17:52.684 --> 01:17:57.104

And when you shift your perspective, it's just interesting how different things

01:17:57.104 --> 01:17:58.304

start to show up in your life.

01:17:58.404 --> 01:18:02.744

And I think overcoming an addiction can be just such a powerful metaphor for

01:18:02.744 --> 01:18:08.844

a turning point for anybody, but it's, it's scary to face down your own fears

01:18:08.844 --> 01:18:11.604

and that courage word that we've used a lot here today.

01:18:11.884 --> 01:18:16.264

It's, it's about finding your own courage and, and it's not about.

01:18:17.503 --> 01:18:21.283

You know, showboating. It's not about glory. It actually, when everybody said

01:18:21.283 --> 01:18:24.043

to me, Oh, Andy, you know, you're, you're such an inspiration,

01:18:24.123 --> 01:18:26.583

you know, when I was riding the tour and I'm like, yeah, but you don't understand.

01:18:26.723 --> 01:18:27.903

I'm at the back all the time.

01:18:28.183 --> 01:18:34.343

You know, there are guys there who are half my weight that are flying up the mountains.

01:18:34.383 --> 01:18:37.943

And I, I, I'm like, I don't get it. Why, why would you think I'm an inspiration?

01:18:38.663 --> 01:18:41.983

And someone explained it to me. It's because you're, you're

01:18:41.983 --> 01:18:45.263

in the struggle you're in the fight and if if

01:18:45.263 --> 01:18:51.783

i'd been uh you know a racing snake and 60 kilograms rather than 100 nod you

01:18:51.783 --> 01:18:54.823

know it probably would have been less inspirational because people would have

01:18:54.823 --> 01:18:58.663

gone yeah well you know he's a great cyclist and whatever but you know i'm the

01:18:58.663 --> 01:19:04.523

guy who didn't even have a bike when i signed up for it and and i think to watch people all enduring,

01:19:04.763 --> 01:19:07.003

I think is quite a cool thing.

01:19:07.203 --> 01:19:12.903

So yeah, you don't swing by the socials and visit the website and get in touch.

01:19:13.003 --> 01:19:16.763

You know, I'd love to have a chat with anybody that is struggling on this.

01:19:16.823 --> 01:19:22.203

I feel extremely duty bound to just shine a bit of light into the shadows on this stuff.

01:19:22.563 --> 01:19:27.943

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I will be positive that all of your links are all inside

01:19:27.943 --> 01:19:30.703

of the show notes today for easy access.

01:19:30.703 --> 01:19:35.443

Process you kind of spoke to it a little bit you know touching on my my final

01:19:35.443 --> 01:19:42.403

question is speaking to the person who's listening to us today who maybe they

01:19:42.403 --> 01:19:43.663

haven't begun the journey,

01:19:44.283 --> 01:19:48.123

they're they're in the thick of it though they they're suffering from some type

01:19:48.123 --> 01:19:53.403

of addiction yeah what would you say to them it's okay to be scared and it's

01:19:53.403 --> 01:19:57.323

okay to feel like you can't do this.

01:19:58.083 --> 01:20:02.943

If you've listened this far, you'll know that this can be a game of moments

01:20:02.943 --> 01:20:07.603

and you don't need many of them to make a big difference in your life.

01:20:07.723 --> 01:20:10.143

You will get aha moments as you go through this.

01:20:10.883 --> 01:20:14.543

Maybe you can work it out for yourself. I sometimes, you know.

01:20:15.307 --> 01:20:18.367

Say, well, I had to work it out for myself, but actually I didn't.

01:20:18.527 --> 01:20:21.427

I'd learned all this stuff. I just not put it into action.

01:20:22.007 --> 01:20:28.267

If you need some help, if you need somebody to put an arm around your shoulder

01:20:28.267 --> 01:20:29.767

and go, you know what? It's going to be okay.

01:20:30.447 --> 01:20:32.747

I'm here to tell you it's going to be okay.

01:20:33.487 --> 01:20:37.847

Yes, there are tough moments, but they will be just that. There will be moments.

01:20:38.267 --> 01:20:42.767

This This is not a 24-7 struggle. It's tough in the beginning,

01:20:42.867 --> 01:20:45.087

but actually it gets easier.

01:20:45.467 --> 01:20:51.007

And just find something that resonates with you, whether it's me,

01:20:51.147 --> 01:20:53.567

whether it's AA or something else.

01:20:53.667 --> 01:20:58.187

But just when something just starts to vibrate inside you and you go,

01:20:58.227 --> 01:20:59.427

you know what? I feel hopeful.

01:20:59.607 --> 01:21:03.127

Just keep running with it. One of the best bits of advice I was given by an

01:21:03.127 --> 01:21:07.427

old boss of mine said, he said, if you're stuck in the dark and you see light

01:21:07.427 --> 01:21:10.707

at the end of the tunnel, just head in that direction.

01:21:10.947 --> 01:21:12.907

Well said, well said.

01:21:13.247 --> 01:21:20.487

Andy, it has been an absolute joy to have this time with you today.

01:21:21.227 --> 01:21:24.807

Thank you, man, so much. It means the world.

01:21:25.107 --> 01:21:30.087

Oh, and thank you so much for inviting me on. You keep doing what you're doing.

01:21:30.247 --> 01:21:32.227

You know, we need more people like you in the world.

01:21:32.567 --> 01:21:36.007

Just, you know, showing people what is possible.

01:21:36.187 --> 01:21:45.267

How can you transcend difficulty with such dignity and grace as in your in your podcast?

01:21:45.807 --> 01:21:49.727

It's wonderful. I love it. And I love you, man. Well done.

01:21:49.847 --> 01:21:53.947

Thank you so much, man. So much for you listening today.

01:21:54.167 --> 01:21:59.787

My hope, as always, is that today's episode didn't just entertain you,

01:21:59.887 --> 01:22:03.507

but hopefully it has inspired you.

01:22:03.567 --> 01:22:06.287

It's empowered you. it's made you look at life a little

01:22:06.287 --> 01:22:09.027

bit different it's made you think what is

01:22:09.027 --> 01:22:12.947

my tour de france what is my thing

01:22:12.947 --> 01:22:18.067

my addiction that i need to overcome what is it that i want to do so that i

01:22:18.067 --> 01:22:23.447

can be in the position where andy is today looking back down the mountain to

01:22:23.447 --> 01:22:29.547

see where he's already traveled until next time this is kevin lowe with grit grace and inspiration.

01:22:30.160 --> 01:22:48.809

Music.