Show Transcript

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Kevin Lowe: If you clicked on today's episode, expecting a heartwarming conversation with

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Kevin Lowe: a guy who shares his life story about growing up in a small coal mining town

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Kevin Lowe: in West Virginia to getting to where he is today,

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Kevin Lowe: graduating from Harvard Business School, from becoming a published author with

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Kevin Lowe: his book, Appalachian Kid,

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Kevin Lowe: well then you found the right place.

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Kevin Lowe: Because today is a story about a kid who had every bit of adversity one could expect.

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Kevin Lowe: And yet he overcame.

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Kevin Lowe: Today is a story that I think can pull at your heartstrings,

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Kevin Lowe: can pull at your emotions, but more than anything else, can leave you realizing

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Kevin Lowe: that anything is possible.

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Kevin Lowe: Sometimes we just got to work at it. We got to keep going.

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Kevin Lowe: And in the end, well, you have a story to tell.

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Kevin Lowe: Today is an interview with John Boyle, the author of Appalachian Kid, A story of his life.

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Kevin Lowe: A story that's going to guide today's conversation.

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Kevin Lowe: My friend, it's episode 327. I'm glad you're here. I look forward to seeing you inside.

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Intro: Yo, are you ready to flip the script on life? Because those bad days,

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Intro: they're just doors to better days.

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Intro: And that's exactly what we do here at Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

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Intro: Your host, Kevin Lowe. He's been flipping the script on his own life,

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Intro: Turning over 20 years of being completely blind into straight up inspiration,

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Intro: motivation, and encouragement just for you.

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Intro: So, kick back, relax, and let me introduce you to your host, Kevin Lowe.

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Kevin Lowe: John, man, welcome to the podcast, dude. It is a pleasure to have you.

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John Boyle: Thank you so much, Kevin. I've been looking forward to this since we talked

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John Boyle: a month ago. Yeah. And it's an honor to be on your show.

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Kevin Lowe: Oh, man. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely, dude. Well, John, I'm excited for us to

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Kevin Lowe: explore kind of this entire kind of life's journey you've been on.

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Kevin Lowe: And I would love for you to just kind of take us back in time.

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Kevin Lowe: Put us in the place of childhood. Where did you grow up? What was childhood

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Kevin Lowe: like for you? Just kind of paint that picture.

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Kevin Lowe: And I figured that would be an awesome starting point.

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John Boyle: Absolutely. I would be happy to. If I get too long-winded, you let me know, Kevin.

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John Boyle: I grew up in a small mining community in Kingwood, West Virginia.

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John Boyle: It's a town of 2,000 people, and it's on the border of Maryland and Pennsylvania.

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John Boyle: And where I grew up was just up in the mountains. It's a farming and mining community.

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John Boyle: And growing up, it was a beautiful place. It was a safe place.

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John Boyle: It was somewhere where you could go out and you could ride your bike and not

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John Boyle: come home until it was dark.

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John Boyle: And I always played outside and with my friends.

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John Boyle: And I love the area and the people.

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John Boyle: And really, I couldn't have asked to grow up in a better place, Kevin.

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John Boyle: But when I was growing up, I didn't know it until I was older.

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John Boyle: But I grew up in a violent home. You know, when you're a little kid,

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John Boyle: you don't know how to compare your circumstances with someone else's.

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John Boyle: You're just doing the best you can to get from one day to the next.

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John Boyle: And maybe that's a really high level summary.

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John Boyle: But growing up in those circumstances, Kevin, it gave me a lot of difficulty.

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John Boyle: And as I, you know, from my earliest memories until, you know,

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John Boyle: well into elementary school, I really had a lot of difficulty and it stemmed

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John Boyle: from, you know, violence in the home.

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John Boyle: And, you know, look, this is something that just isn't isolated to me.

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John Boyle: This is quite common in our society.

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John Boyle: And the children who grow up under those circumstances carry the ramifications

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John Boyle: of those actions with them into adulthood.

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John Boyle: And so my childhood was great in many senses.

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John Boyle: And I have to this day, Kevin, my closest of friends are the ones I grew up

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John Boyle: with in Preston County, West Virginia.

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John Boyle: And so I, again, I couldn't have asked for better circumstances.

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John Boyle: However, there was a great deal of adversity, especially in childhood and into

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John Boyle: high school and college. Yeah.

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Kevin Lowe: Now, did you grow up with brothers and sisters?

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John Boyle: Yes. I had three younger sisters, or have three younger sisters rather,

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John Boyle: and I was the oldest and the only male.

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Kevin Lowe: Okay. Wow.

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Kevin Lowe: You said, you know, the thing of, you know, when you're growing up and you're

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Kevin Lowe: a kid, you don't you don't realize that anything's different about the way you're growing up.

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Kevin Lowe: How old were you when you realized, wait a minute, this isn't normal?

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John Boyle: Well, I would say first or second grade, maybe third grade in that area.

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John Boyle: There would be family members who would come to our house and kind of witness

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John Boyle: some of the treatment, so to speak, ill-advised treatment, really.

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John Boyle: And I could tell from the reactions from my aunt, especially, that it wasn't kosher.

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John Boyle: And so I began to have radar towards that treatment.

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John Boyle: And really, when I realized that this wasn't going on in everyone's home was

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John Boyle: when I started to have sleepovers at friends' houses or go to friends' houses after school.

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John Boyle: And, you know, I would hear, you know, their parents say little things like,

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John Boyle: I love you. You know, those were things that I didn't hear in my home.

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John Boyle: And I'm not trying to pick on my parents. That's just the way it was.

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John Boyle: And, you know, just the overall treatment and what they incurred in their home

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John Boyle: and what I incurred in mine was quite different.

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John Boyle: And that's when I began to see that there was something going on in my home

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John Boyle: that didn't go on in everyone's. Yeah, absolutely.

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Kevin Lowe: How did that then impact kind of the rest of your childhood?

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John Boyle: Overwhelmingly. As time went

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John Boyle: on, Kevin, third and fourth grade became exceedingly difficult for me.

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John Boyle: I started to be sent to the classroom where there were readers that were behind

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John Boyle: or kids that were behind in math. It was almost like I was impaired.

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John Boyle: And really what was going on,

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John Boyle: Kevin, I was displaying symptoms of a mental disorder I didn't know I had.

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John Boyle: And so I would disassociate with my surroundings at school, especially after

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John Boyle: something troubling had happened in my home.

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John Boyle: And, you know, when I was disassociating in school, I was typecast by many of

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John Boyle: my teachers as being lazy and a daydreamer.

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John Boyle: And that really enraged my father because he didn't like laziness, right? Right.

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John Boyle: And so I would incur punishment on top of the abuse from my mom for having bad

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John Boyle: grades and not being able to function in school.

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John Boyle: And one played off another and my grades got worse. Those actions didn't do any good for me.

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John Boyle: And by sixth grade, Kevin, I almost failed. I almost failed.

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John Boyle: I almost failed sixth grade.

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John Boyle: And I remember distinctly, Kevin, going to a parent teacher conference with

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John Boyle: both of my parents. And I remember my sixth grade teacher looking at my parents

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John Boyle: and saying, this kid will never make it to college, much less graduate.

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John Boyle: And so that was my elementary school years and junior high didn't get any easier.

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Kevin Lowe: Wow. Wow, wow, wow. During this time in your life that we're up to at this point, was there anything?

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Kevin Lowe: I mean, we talk about school is tough. We talked about home life is really hard.

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Kevin Lowe: Was there anything or anyone, though, that you kind of clung to that maybe got

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Kevin Lowe: you through it looking back?

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John Boyle: That's a great question. And not to foreshadow the ending of my book,

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John Boyle: but that is the ending of my book.

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John Boyle: The ending of my book, Kevin, is that my life is a miracle and that I didn't

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John Boyle: realize that when I was a kid, but God put people in my life that gave me enough to get from A to B.

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John Boyle: My dad's friend, best friend growing up was a guy named Jeff.

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John Boyle: And he used to take me, you know, hunting. He used to take me fishing.

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John Boyle: You know, we would go camping.

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John Boyle: He had some kids, but younger than me.

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John Boyle: And before he had children, he spent time with me. And it really left an impression on me.

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John Boyle: I had an aunt who from the youngest years I can remember was always defending me.

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John Boyle: And if she saw treatment that I shouldn't be receiving at home,

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John Boyle: she would be vocal about it. But she was the only one that really spoke up and

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John Boyle: even to this day continues to speak up and say it's wrong.

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John Boyle: There were others, you know, friends. My best friend Moose to this day,

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John Boyle: you know, he used to walk me from class to class in junior high to make sure no one picked on me.

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John Boyle: There were so many people that God put in my life that changed it.

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John Boyle: And all through my life, there were people that just it just changed the trajectory.

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John Boyle: And when I got to high school, Kevin, I didn't say this part,

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John Boyle: but from about fifth grade on, as a young man, I just took the approach that

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John Boyle: when I was hit, I was going to defend myself.

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John Boyle: And that made the reaction from my mother much more vicious.

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John Boyle: And to be honest with you, as a child, I really didn't care.

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John Boyle: I saw it as no one's going to protect me, so I'm going to do it.

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John Boyle: And And right, wrong, or indifferent, that's what happened.

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John Boyle: And so there became a dynamic in my home where there were altercations constantly, constantly.

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John Boyle: And by the time I was 14 or 15, you know, it was happening quite frequent.

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John Boyle: And my father pitched the idea that I could go to a boarding school.

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John Boyle: And really, that was my way out. And when I went to that boarding school at

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John Boyle: 15, I was a sophomore. more.

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John Boyle: And when I got to that school, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

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John Boyle: I may say that over and over, but there were many good things that happened to me.

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John Boyle: And I can't stress that enough.

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John Boyle: This is not a story about those who did me wrong.

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John Boyle: This is a story about the goodness of God.

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John Boyle: And he placed all of these teachers in my world from 15 to 18 that took a kid

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John Boyle: that almost failed 10th grade again,

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John Boyle: Kevin, was next to last in my class and just mightily struggling because I didn't

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John Boyle: have a good educational background.

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John Boyle: I was disassociated all through elementary school and much of junior high.

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John Boyle: And I'm not making excuses.

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John Boyle: That's just my journey. And so there were many, many teachers there.

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John Boyle: My English teacher, my math teacher, my football coach, my Spanish teacher, the head of school.

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John Boyle: These people plowed into me and didn't have to, too, but they did and it changed my life.

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Kevin Lowe: Wow.

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John Boyle: That's the essence of mentorship right there.

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Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely.

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Kevin Lowe: Before kind of moving forward, did your sisters endure the same treatment as you?

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John Boyle: You know, Kevin, I don't really write about my sisters in my book.

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John Boyle: I do in a few stories about my childhood just to give the story the proper context.

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John Boyle: But, you know, from my vantage point, they certainly had it difficult.

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John Boyle: I don't know that they had it as difficult as I did. But honestly,

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John Boyle: that's something that they would have to answer.

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John Boyle: I really, you know, I really left the house at 15 and I didn't come back.

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Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Okay. So at boarding school, you spoke about that was really kind of a,

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Kevin Lowe: I would consider a pivotal shift, a positive shift forward.

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Kevin Lowe: Were there any other kind of standout moments when you look back at that period

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Kevin Lowe: in time that you feel like was really pivotal in getting you kind of on the

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Kevin Lowe: course that you ended up taking that's led to kind of where you are today?

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John Boyle: Yeah. The first image that comes into my mind when you ask that is the day that

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John Boyle: I left West Virginia and went to Salzburg, Pennsylvania.

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John Boyle: The name of the boarding school was the Kiske School.

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John Boyle: And until this year, it was all male. And there was when I pulled up to my when

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John Boyle: my family pulled up to the dorm to drop me off, there was a man standing outside.

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John Boyle: The dorm's name was Clark Hall.

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John Boyle: I remember it well. It was in the fall of 1992.

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John Boyle: And there was a man standing outside the doors with a Kiske ball cap.

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John Boyle: And I was the first student to move in the dorm that day. And just that handoff, Kevin,

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John Boyle: was so symbolic for me and looking back at it to see a man who was welcoming,

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John Boyle: who said, we're glad to have you here and I'm going to help you get oriented.

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John Boyle: And we're looking forward to spending this year with you. just things like that.

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John Boyle: It just, it just gave me a feeling of I'm welcome.

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John Boyle: That man, his name's Mark Orsatti and he's still a teacher there.

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John Boyle: And when I, when I launched my book, did my, my book opening in September of

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John Boyle: 23, I did it at that school and he showed up and I told that story,

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John Boyle: Kevin, and I said it to everybody there.

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John Boyle: And I looked over at him and he was just, I mean, just crying his eyes out.

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John Boyle: Wow. And it was so cool for me because I don't know that he ever knew that. Right.

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John Boyle: When you're a mentor, I don't think, you know, the impact that you have on a child.

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John Boyle: And I think to get feedback like that, well, obviously it meant something to him too.

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John Boyle: So there were many other moments, Kevin, I don't want to ramble here.

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John Boyle: So you cut me off if I am, but you know, my first grade reading,

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John Boyle: the head of school reads your grades to you.

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John Boyle: There's only about 200 students in the school. So it's pretty personable.

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John Boyle: And his name was Mr. Pigeon. And he read my grades to me. And he told me I was last in the class.

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John Boyle: And Kevin, he didn't tear into me. He didn't tell me that I was going to be

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John Boyle: nothing but a truck driver and that I was stupid and the things that I used

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John Boyle: to hear about my grades. He just said, John, your effort grades are B's.

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John Boyle: And if you get them up to A's, you'll be my hero.

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John Boyle: He didn't he didn't land base me over having 60 and 70 percent in certain classes.

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John Boyle: And and I'll give you one over. He didn't do it all year.

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Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

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John Boyle: And he just stood beside me. And there were dorm parents in a dorm at Kiske.

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John Boyle: There are family housing connected to the dorm. So you're more or less in a

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John Boyle: family atmosphere and you have what's called dorm parents and those dorm parents are teachers.

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John Boyle: And one of the men there was a guy named Dr. Lane and he taught me how to study.

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John Boyle: And my junior year, my football coach really helped me get more prepared in

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John Boyle: the season before I started school. school, I came back with an idea of what

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John Boyle: I was getting myself into.

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John Boyle: And my first grade reading, my junior year, I made the honor roll for the first time in my life.

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John Boyle: And I think it shocked anybody that knew me.

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John Boyle: But the man that was happiest for me was the guy who taught me how to study,

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John Boyle: Dr. Lane. And he was a man's man, tough.

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John Boyle: And he gave me a hug when I told him. He couldn't have been happier.

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John Boyle: And those moments, I can't express how much they meant to me.

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Kevin Lowe: And I

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John Boyle: Write about in my book.

00:15:31.471 --> 00:15:38.331

Kevin Lowe: Yeah yeah absolutely the the power of of a mentor the power of a teacher the

00:15:38.331 --> 00:15:43.911

Kevin Lowe: power of somebody just shows a kid that they care it's profound it

00:15:43.911 --> 00:15:45.911

John Boyle: Is and when you grow up like me it's critical.

00:15:45.911 --> 00:15:46.451

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely

00:15:47.725 --> 00:15:55.265

Kevin Lowe: So in sixth grade, you were told you would never graduate. You would never amount to anything.

00:15:55.545 --> 00:15:59.265

Kevin Lowe: But obviously that was wrong.

00:15:59.545 --> 00:16:04.965

Kevin Lowe: Talk to me about life continuing out of high school. What happens?

00:16:05.425 --> 00:16:13.605

John Boyle: Well, I graduated high school in the summer before I graduated college or went to college. I'm sorry.

00:16:13.945 --> 00:16:17.765

John Boyle: In between the summer when I graduated high school and started college,

00:16:18.005 --> 00:16:23.145

John Boyle: I had worked for my family business, which was in road construction for years at this point.

00:16:23.365 --> 00:16:29.885

John Boyle: And I started to realize, I started to consume alcohol and I started to realize

00:16:29.885 --> 00:16:37.385

John Boyle: that alcohol covered up some of the symptoms I was having that I didn't know I had a mental disorder.

00:16:37.545 --> 00:16:40.985

John Boyle: I didn't know what was going on with me at this point. But even through high

00:16:40.985 --> 00:16:48.425

John Boyle: school and certainly became more pronounced in college, I began to suffer from bouts of insomnia.

00:16:48.565 --> 00:16:50.605

John Boyle: I mean, bouts of it for weeks and weeks.

00:16:50.825 --> 00:16:59.485

John Boyle: I was having flashbacks and just negative memories that were coming into my

00:16:59.485 --> 00:17:01.105

John Boyle: brain for no apparent reason.

00:17:01.185 --> 00:17:04.305

John Boyle: They were being triggered by smells and sights and thoughts.

00:17:04.505 --> 00:17:07.725

John Boyle: And I just didn't know anything about them, right?

00:17:07.845 --> 00:17:13.885

John Boyle: So I was having difficulty when you peel back the onion or peel back the curtain

00:17:13.885 --> 00:17:17.405

John Boyle: to my private life that no one was seeing.

00:17:17.565 --> 00:17:22.045

John Boyle: And I would have chronic muscle tenseness. I was having nightmares.

00:17:22.545 --> 00:17:27.985

John Boyle: My fight or flight response would get stuck on. And I would feel like there

00:17:27.985 --> 00:17:30.485

John Boyle: was a bomb threat called in for no reason whatsoever.

00:17:30.865 --> 00:17:35.385

John Boyle: And so I really had a lot of difficulty. And what I figured out was that alcohol

00:17:35.385 --> 00:17:37.005

John Boyle: covered up a lot of these symptoms.

00:17:37.385 --> 00:17:42.945

John Boyle: So I began drinking. And when I went to college, I went to the number one party

00:17:42.945 --> 00:17:45.445

John Boyle: school in the United States. I went to West Virginia University.

00:17:46.393 --> 00:17:51.433

John Boyle: And I went to the School of Engineering. And so by my fourth day of college,

00:17:51.533 --> 00:17:53.973

John Boyle: Kevin, I was arrested for driving under the influence.

00:17:54.313 --> 00:17:59.413

John Boyle: And it was really a, no pun intended, a sobering moment for me.

00:17:59.633 --> 00:18:06.653

John Boyle: And it really got me back on track and made me realize very early that I was

00:18:06.653 --> 00:18:09.373

John Boyle: becoming someone that I didn't intend to be.

00:18:09.493 --> 00:18:14.793

John Boyle: And that those actions really blemished the work that I'd done in my life thus

00:18:14.793 --> 00:18:19.553

John Boyle: far. And so I was able to get my focus back on track.

00:18:19.793 --> 00:18:25.213

John Boyle: I graduated from the School of Engineering, the civil engineering degree in 1999.

00:18:25.953 --> 00:18:31.233

John Boyle: But really, I also struggled in college, Kevin. I struggled mightily with the

00:18:31.233 --> 00:18:33.473

John Boyle: symptoms that I've talked about already. ready.

00:18:33.733 --> 00:18:38.193

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Wow. I wanted to back up a little bit.

00:18:38.313 --> 00:18:43.613

Kevin Lowe: You said something about, I guess, that in between high school and college,

00:18:43.733 --> 00:18:47.273

Kevin Lowe: you mentioned something about your family's business. Yes.

00:18:47.693 --> 00:18:50.573

Kevin Lowe: So what kind of business was that?

00:18:50.693 --> 00:18:56.913

Kevin Lowe: And I guess I guess I kind of failed to ask was during your time in boarding

00:18:56.913 --> 00:19:03.353

Kevin Lowe: school, what kind of contact and relationship did you keep with your family?

00:19:03.953 --> 00:19:10.593

John Boyle: Well, I was much closer with my father than my mother. My dad was a coal miner.

00:19:10.733 --> 00:19:11.873

John Boyle: He was a hardened individual.

00:19:12.153 --> 00:19:18.093

John Boyle: And I don't fault him for being that. Those were his circumstances and that's just who he was.

00:19:18.713 --> 00:19:25.233

John Boyle: And so, especially when I was in junior high, my father didn't like the comments

00:19:25.233 --> 00:19:30.713

John Boyle: that would come home with my report cards about me being perceived as lazy or a daydreamer.

00:19:30.793 --> 00:19:34.333

John Boyle: And so he put me to work at 13.

00:19:34.553 --> 00:19:40.133

John Boyle: I began working in a machine shop. When I was 13, my family had a mining business.

00:19:40.393 --> 00:19:43.893

John Boyle: They had some surface mines and some deep mines, and they mined coal there.

00:19:44.341 --> 00:19:48.721

John Boyle: In North Central West Virginia. And so I worked in the machine shop where they

00:19:48.721 --> 00:19:52.601

John Boyle: rebuilt some of the miners and underground equipment and, you know,

00:19:52.601 --> 00:19:57.581

John Boyle: really just clean the bathroom, clean the floors, the dirtiest jobs you can imagine,

00:19:57.741 --> 00:20:03.501

John Boyle: unhooking hydraulic hoses from roof boulders and miners and shuttle cars and things like that.

00:20:03.741 --> 00:20:08.961

John Boyle: And, you know, that was in the late 80s. And into the early 90s,

00:20:08.961 --> 00:20:14.961

John Boyle: my family pivoted more into road construction and asphalt paving and things

00:20:14.961 --> 00:20:17.881

John Boyle: more in the public infrastructure realm.

00:20:18.301 --> 00:20:24.141

John Boyle: So through high school, I was working, putting in water lines and sewer lines.

00:20:24.321 --> 00:20:28.801

John Boyle: I worked behind an asphalt paver. And really, by the time I got to college,

00:20:29.061 --> 00:20:31.341

John Boyle: I had worked five or six summers.

00:20:31.501 --> 00:20:33.761

John Boyle: And I was very knowledgeable.

00:20:33.981 --> 00:20:41.041

John Boyle: So into college, I was a crew supervisor and a surveyor and even a project engineer towards the end.

00:20:41.361 --> 00:20:49.221

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Now, when you would end up graduating, would you go back and work with

00:20:49.221 --> 00:20:54.841

Kevin Lowe: the family business after graduating college or would you pursue a different career path?

00:20:55.221 --> 00:21:01.461

John Boyle: I did pursue all the options that I could find in the late 90s for engineers.

00:21:01.741 --> 00:21:10.381

John Boyle: There wasn't a robust market hiring. And really my closest job I was offered was in Washington, D.C.

00:21:10.701 --> 00:21:14.721

John Boyle: And being a kid from the country and I went to boarding school in the country,

00:21:14.901 --> 00:21:18.281

John Boyle: I just didn't see myself in a city at that time in my life.

00:21:18.401 --> 00:21:22.321

John Boyle: So I turned those offers down and I went to work for my family.

00:21:22.441 --> 00:21:25.801

John Boyle: I was offered a job right out of college and I did that.

00:21:26.641 --> 00:21:32.661

Kevin Lowe: Hmm. Wow. How long, how long would you end up working there?

00:21:32.941 --> 00:21:37.101

John Boyle: So I don't remember how old I was when I graduated college. I'm just going to

00:21:37.101 --> 00:21:40.781

John Boyle: guess I was 22. I worked there until I was 40.

00:21:40.961 --> 00:21:41.621

Kevin Lowe: Oh, wow.

00:21:42.061 --> 00:21:43.261

John Boyle: Yeah. Yeah.

00:21:44.061 --> 00:21:44.501

Kevin Lowe: Now...

00:21:47.141 --> 00:21:55.241

Kevin Lowe: Did you during this time, I guess when I hear this, I guess it's such a shock

00:21:55.241 --> 00:21:58.081

Kevin Lowe: because it's like boarding school. You got away from that.

00:21:58.421 --> 00:22:03.921

Kevin Lowe: And then after graduating college, you kind of went back to hometown.

00:22:04.561 --> 00:22:09.701

Kevin Lowe: Did you have much of a relationship with your mother?

00:22:10.181 --> 00:22:13.421

John Boyle: No, no, I did not. Yeah, I did not, Kevin.

00:22:13.561 --> 00:22:18.661

John Boyle: And I really, because of the interactions at my earliest ages,

00:22:18.921 --> 00:22:23.561

John Boyle: I would say I never really had a relationship with her, even as a child. Yeah.

00:22:23.681 --> 00:22:26.701

John Boyle: I always kind of saw myself as having one parent.

00:22:26.841 --> 00:22:32.101

John Boyle: One parent was involved in my life. He wasn't perfect, but no one is Kevin.

00:22:32.361 --> 00:22:38.761

John Boyle: And I believe he tried. I think he tried as much as he knew how to navigate that situation.

00:22:39.521 --> 00:22:44.361

John Boyle: But my dad was an all-business guy, Kevin, and he was gone a lot in my childhood

00:22:44.361 --> 00:22:46.541

John Boyle: for work. He traveled a good bit.

00:22:46.681 --> 00:22:53.001

John Boyle: And when I got the chance to go travel with him for work, things were better

00:22:53.001 --> 00:22:54.861

John Boyle: for me than they were at home.

00:22:55.121 --> 00:23:01.901

John Boyle: And so really, in my early 20s, I wasn't putting all the pieces together as

00:23:01.901 --> 00:23:04.901

John Boyle: to how much my childhood would affect my adult life.

00:23:05.141 --> 00:23:11.101

John Boyle: And I knew I was dealing with symptoms and problems, But I didn't know what they stemmed from.

00:23:11.321 --> 00:23:17.241

John Boyle: Right. So I was just doing my best. And I knew that business inside and out.

00:23:17.301 --> 00:23:21.921

John Boyle: And it made a lot of sense for me because I could go in to my family's business

00:23:21.921 --> 00:23:26.881

John Boyle: and and really have an accelerated career, if that makes sense.

00:23:26.881 --> 00:23:31.421

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. You spoke a little bit ago,

00:23:31.581 --> 00:23:38.421

Kevin Lowe: a little bit about the drinking and you told us in college,

00:23:38.641 --> 00:23:43.441

Kevin Lowe: right after the start, getting caught drinking and driving.

00:23:44.512 --> 00:23:47.612

Kevin Lowe: After college, you're in this career.

00:23:47.792 --> 00:23:52.912

Kevin Lowe: How would alcohol kind of impact the rest of your story?

00:23:53.072 --> 00:23:58.252

John Boyle: In every way possible, Kevin. I was someone in my 20s.

00:23:58.272 --> 00:24:02.192

John Boyle: I would say maybe the term is binge drinking.

00:24:02.492 --> 00:24:07.992

John Boyle: I don't know if that was exactly it, but I drank to numb myself.

00:24:08.392 --> 00:24:15.012

John Boyle: I drank to numb my mind. I drank to not have the thoughts that I would have when I was sober.

00:24:15.212 --> 00:24:17.612

John Boyle: I now know those as flashbacks.

00:24:18.652 --> 00:24:22.532

John Boyle: But when I drank heavily, I didn't have nightmares.

00:24:22.972 --> 00:24:27.512

John Boyle: I didn't have flashbacks. I didn't have poor thoughts.

00:24:27.812 --> 00:24:31.872

John Boyle: Even my fight or flight response wouldn't get stuck on.

00:24:32.112 --> 00:24:35.412

John Boyle: So I saw alcohol as giving me a break.

00:24:35.632 --> 00:24:40.372

John Boyle: And so I didn't necessarily drink every night in my 20s.

00:24:40.792 --> 00:24:44.992

John Boyle: But I would go out on the weekends, Kevin, and I would have more than anyone

00:24:44.992 --> 00:24:46.552

John Boyle: around me. Let's put it that way.

00:24:46.672 --> 00:24:50.572

John Boyle: You know, if people around me were having four or five, I'd be at 10 when we

00:24:50.572 --> 00:24:54.132

John Boyle: left, right? 10 drinks versus four or five for everybody else.

00:24:54.592 --> 00:24:59.572

John Boyle: And I wasn't someone, at least I don't think I was, that acted out of line.

00:24:59.692 --> 00:25:02.112

John Boyle: I didn't get in trouble again.

00:25:02.692 --> 00:25:05.712

John Boyle: But the damage I was doing was to myself.

00:25:06.332 --> 00:25:08.912

John Boyle: And if I could, I'll just explain a little bit more.

00:25:09.737 --> 00:25:14.557

John Boyle: As I got into my mid to late 20s, I met my first wife.

00:25:14.937 --> 00:25:20.357

John Boyle: And when we got married and she started living with me every day,

00:25:20.537 --> 00:25:26.697

John Boyle: she could start to see that there was something wrong with me that had not been diagnosed.

00:25:27.077 --> 00:25:30.597

John Boyle: And she was one of the first ones in my life who started to say,

00:25:30.697 --> 00:25:35.517

John Boyle: hey, let's go and get you help and let's figure out what's going on. And I did.

00:25:35.717 --> 00:25:39.917

John Boyle: I knew there was something going on and I didn't want to deal with it.

00:25:39.957 --> 00:25:43.077

John Boyle: And I certainly didn't want to drink every weekend to have to get through it.

00:25:43.217 --> 00:25:46.517

John Boyle: Unfortunately, I was misdiagnosed for about 10 years.

00:25:46.697 --> 00:25:52.717

John Boyle: And so I believe I started walking in the door at 26 or 27 to psychologists,

00:25:53.057 --> 00:25:56.797

John Boyle: to my family doctor, to therapists.

00:25:57.357 --> 00:26:04.917

John Boyle: And I was trying to get help. And I was diagnosed with, with I was having medication

00:26:04.917 --> 00:26:10.677

John Boyle: and prescriptions given to me for all these things I didn't have, depression, anxiety.

00:26:11.297 --> 00:26:17.757

John Boyle: These were not the root causes. And really, Kevin, what happened there was there

00:26:17.757 --> 00:26:20.497

John Boyle: were a lot of disguise presentations where I would go in and say,

00:26:20.577 --> 00:26:21.737

John Boyle: hey, I'm having this problem.

00:26:21.957 --> 00:26:26.257

John Boyle: I wasn't putting all the symptoms together and saying, hey, there's a breadth

00:26:26.257 --> 00:26:29.077

John Boyle: of issues here and I need treatment.

00:26:29.217 --> 00:26:31.237

John Boyle: What is the diagnosis? What's wrong?

00:26:31.477 --> 00:26:37.117

John Boyle: And I just didn't know anything about it. And I was just trying to navigate the best I could.

00:26:37.257 --> 00:26:43.457

John Boyle: So I tried the medication route for several years and it just didn't move the needle.

00:26:43.797 --> 00:26:48.597

John Boyle: And I was just being prescribed larger and larger doses because my body was

00:26:48.597 --> 00:26:52.557

John Boyle: becoming used to what I was given and it wasn't moving the needle.

00:26:52.657 --> 00:26:57.477

John Boyle: And so I was so frustrated by my early thirties that I stopped taking medication

00:26:57.477 --> 00:27:00.977

John Boyle: and I started drinking every day. And that's where things went haywire.

00:27:01.597 --> 00:27:07.697

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. 37, I know from notes, is a pivotal year.

00:27:07.997 --> 00:27:09.897

Kevin Lowe: What happened at the age of 37?

00:27:10.377 --> 00:27:15.017

John Boyle: Can I back up just a bit? I want to say one thing before we go to 37.

00:27:15.557 --> 00:27:16.037

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely.

00:27:16.317 --> 00:27:21.317

John Boyle: When I was 29, on top of all these personal issues I was having,

00:27:21.457 --> 00:27:27.197

John Boyle: on top of my first wife being pregnant with our first son, my father got sick

00:27:27.197 --> 00:27:29.117

John Boyle: and he had a heart attack and.

00:27:29.884 --> 00:27:33.824

John Boyle: He basically called me one day and said, Hey, I need you to come to the hospital.

00:27:34.004 --> 00:27:35.144

John Boyle: I came up to the hospital.

00:27:35.524 --> 00:27:38.444

John Boyle: He was sitting outside in his truck and he was upset.

00:27:38.604 --> 00:27:43.164

John Boyle: And he told me what happened that night. And he just looked at me and said,

00:27:43.264 --> 00:27:44.364

John Boyle: You're in charge. Good luck.

00:27:44.544 --> 00:27:46.944

John Boyle: So at 29, I took over the family business.

00:27:47.184 --> 00:27:51.364

John Boyle: I was the company's president. And I didn't know what I was getting myself into there.

00:27:51.884 --> 00:27:56.804

John Boyle: So there was a lot going on when I was in my 30s. I was running a company and

00:27:56.804 --> 00:28:01.824

John Boyle: I had the intelligence to do so and the technical know-how, but really the emotional

00:28:01.824 --> 00:28:04.424

John Boyle: intelligence in me was lacking.

00:28:05.004 --> 00:28:07.864

John Boyle: So I was also coping with that with alcohol.

00:28:08.064 --> 00:28:11.984

John Boyle: I was coping stress with alcohol. I was coping my symptoms with alcohol and

00:28:11.984 --> 00:28:13.444

John Boyle: I was drinking every day.

00:28:13.524 --> 00:28:16.124

John Boyle: I was not late for work. I was highly functional.

00:28:16.404 --> 00:28:20.424

John Boyle: Our company went from having 80 employees to around 600.

00:28:20.764 --> 00:28:23.444

John Boyle: And it was, it was a, it was a true blessing.

00:28:23.804 --> 00:28:27.964

John Boyle: And, and I loved every minute of it. But, you know, in my personal life,

00:28:28.004 --> 00:28:32.744

John Boyle: after I got home, I was, I mired in difficulty and I was, you know,

00:28:32.744 --> 00:28:37.284

John Boyle: in some nights I was just sitting in a dark room trying to reset my brain and

00:28:37.284 --> 00:28:38.504

John Boyle: even alcohol wasn't working.

00:28:38.644 --> 00:28:42.964

John Boyle: So when I was 37, to answer your question, I started to turn,

00:28:43.024 --> 00:28:47.504

John Boyle: my skin started to turn sheet white and I really started to get scared.

00:28:47.564 --> 00:28:49.244

John Boyle: I stopped being able to keep food down.

00:28:49.644 --> 00:28:54.664

John Boyle: And I went to the doctor and I said, what is wrong? And got some tests run.

00:28:55.084 --> 00:28:59.584

John Boyle: Tests came back and said that my liver was failing and it wasn't processing vitamins.

00:28:59.844 --> 00:29:06.124

John Boyle: And if I continued this route, I'm a dead man. And so I began to realize that I had to quit now.

00:29:06.504 --> 00:29:09.704

John Boyle: And when I went to quit, Kevin, I couldn't.

00:29:09.744 --> 00:29:10.224

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

00:29:10.364 --> 00:29:11.584

John Boyle: I couldn't do it on my own.

00:29:11.904 --> 00:29:18.224

Kevin Lowe: Wow. How long would you try to quit?

00:29:18.224 --> 00:29:20.904

John Boyle: Well, I tried for about a month on my own.

00:29:21.584 --> 00:29:29.284

John Boyle: Somewhere in there. And I would say every night I'm going to stop and I couldn't make it through.

00:29:30.064 --> 00:29:33.164

John Boyle: I couldn't make it until six 37 o'clock in the evening.

00:29:33.284 --> 00:29:39.964

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So what was the turning point?

00:29:40.064 --> 00:29:42.344

Kevin Lowe: How, how did you stop?

00:29:42.724 --> 00:29:48.984

John Boyle: That's an excellent question. And I believe it's just, it's one of the best parts of my book.

00:29:49.144 --> 00:29:53.564

John Boyle: And I write about it in chapter nine. And it's a book about my,

00:29:53.644 --> 00:29:55.864

John Boyle: it's a chapter about my drinking problem.

00:29:56.164 --> 00:30:02.764

John Boyle: I had a, at this point, I'm serving on boards of companies and I had a board meeting in Las Vegas.

00:30:02.984 --> 00:30:06.524

John Boyle: And so I was in Las Vegas about a month after I needed to quit.

00:30:06.584 --> 00:30:09.844

John Boyle: And you know, Las Vegas isn't doing me any favors.

00:30:10.004 --> 00:30:14.584

John Boyle: And so I get on a plane and I'm having this conversation with myself.

00:30:15.104 --> 00:30:18.544

John Boyle: I'm not drinking today. I'm not drinking tomorrow.

00:30:19.124 --> 00:30:23.644

John Boyle: It's not gonna happen. I'm done. And so Kevin, I didn't even make it to when

00:30:23.644 --> 00:30:25.424

John Boyle: the flight landed in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

00:30:25.744 --> 00:30:28.084

John Boyle: I didn't. I was with a coworker. He drove me home.

00:30:29.324 --> 00:30:33.224

John Boyle: And I'm just as far from being able to quit as possible.

00:30:33.384 --> 00:30:39.944

John Boyle: So that weekend, I went to a bar with a friend and we went to downtown Morgantown

00:30:39.944 --> 00:30:45.444

John Boyle: and was at a bar that I always went to and I was very comfortable, but I'm upset.

00:30:45.784 --> 00:30:50.344

John Boyle: And my friend could see that. And this is someone that I'd known from a long time from my hometown.

00:30:50.844 --> 00:30:55.924

John Boyle: And he looks at me and he says, how are you doing? And I looked at him and I said, not good.

00:30:56.264 --> 00:30:59.384

John Boyle: And he said, well, what's going on? So we talked for a little bit.

00:30:59.424 --> 00:31:02.724

John Boyle: I don't get into every detail, but Kevin, he looked at me and he said,

00:31:02.844 --> 00:31:05.564

John Boyle: why don't you come to church with me? And I'm like.

00:31:06.344 --> 00:31:10.244

John Boyle: What? You go to church? That was my response, right? It wasn't no,

00:31:10.484 --> 00:31:13.404

John Boyle: it was, I was kind of caught off guard.

00:31:13.564 --> 00:31:18.104

John Boyle: And this, this was something that I had not heard ever discussed in a bar at night.

00:31:18.364 --> 00:31:24.884

John Boyle: And I began to have this feeling come over me. And I began to realize that this was a lifeline.

00:31:25.304 --> 00:31:29.204

John Boyle: And so in a couple moments, I looked at him after I asked him if he went to

00:31:29.204 --> 00:31:31.884

John Boyle: church, I didn't know. And I just said, what time?

00:31:32.104 --> 00:31:39.304

John Boyle: And then when Sunday came around, I went to church and it was a great experience

00:31:39.304 --> 00:31:41.244

John Boyle: and I just felt peace come over me.

00:31:41.424 --> 00:31:47.764

John Boyle: And so that didn't make me quit, but I went back the next Sunday, right?

00:31:47.864 --> 00:31:51.184

John Boyle: I'm really struggling here. I'm sheet white. I'm not keeping down food.

00:31:51.384 --> 00:31:54.884

John Boyle: My eyes are bloodshot at this point and I can't quit drinking.

00:31:55.044 --> 00:31:59.404

John Boyle: My body's craving I'm not making it to past seven o'clock in the evening,

00:31:59.504 --> 00:32:01.104

John Boyle: but I am cutting back when I'm drinking.

00:32:01.284 --> 00:32:04.704

John Boyle: So I went back the next Sunday and the next Sunday.

00:32:04.884 --> 00:32:11.424

John Boyle: And very soon I began to realize that my life and the way I'm living it is in

00:32:11.424 --> 00:32:14.924

John Boyle: conflict with what God wants for my life.

00:32:15.144 --> 00:32:17.584

John Boyle: And so I agreed.

00:32:17.964 --> 00:32:24.004

John Boyle: I had a sister who was telling me that I should consider going to detox or rehab.

00:32:24.544 --> 00:32:28.064

John Boyle: And I walked in her office and I just said, you know, I agree.

00:32:28.284 --> 00:32:32.284

John Boyle: I need to do this. If I don't, I'm not going to be around for my son.

00:32:32.484 --> 00:32:36.804

John Boyle: And that was not an acceptable outcome for me. I didn't want to do anything bad to him.

00:32:37.104 --> 00:32:40.464

John Boyle: I'd had a very hard childhood and I didn't want him to have that same one.

00:32:40.564 --> 00:32:42.824

John Boyle: And so I chose to go away and get help.

00:32:43.124 --> 00:32:48.264

Kevin Lowe: Wow. You had never been to church before this?

00:32:48.624 --> 00:32:53.764

John Boyle: Well, I wouldn't say that. I grew up Catholic and I'm not Catholic now.

00:32:54.533 --> 00:32:58.533

John Boyle: Really, I kind of separated myself from the Catholic Church in my early 20s.

00:32:58.673 --> 00:33:02.153

John Boyle: And for the difficulties that I've already talked about, you know,

00:33:02.233 --> 00:33:09.153

John Boyle: it was hard for me to understand why God would let me go through this as a child.

00:33:09.293 --> 00:33:09.573

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

00:33:09.953 --> 00:33:16.153

John Boyle: And I don't think I was ever purposefully mad at him, but I was very, very frustrated.

00:33:16.373 --> 00:33:19.913

John Boyle: And I just felt that there were people that church was meant for,

00:33:20.013 --> 00:33:24.413

John Boyle: and there was people that it wasn't meant for, and I was in the latter category.

00:33:25.013 --> 00:33:30.493

John Boyle: And that's a terrible way to look at it. It is, but I'm being honest with you.

00:33:30.673 --> 00:33:35.813

John Boyle: I didn't have any faith life in my later 20s, in my early 30s.

00:33:35.933 --> 00:33:39.693

John Boyle: I might've prayed every once in a while for things that I wanted.

00:33:39.873 --> 00:33:44.293

John Boyle: I certainly wasn't praying for, hey, God, use me for something good.

00:33:44.413 --> 00:33:46.193

John Boyle: Hey, God, what do you want me me to do today.

00:33:46.413 --> 00:33:51.813

John Boyle: It was completely selfish if I did pray and I wasn't going to church, very little, if at all.

00:33:52.053 --> 00:33:58.873

John Boyle: And so this particular church that I was invited to was non-denominational Christian church.

00:33:58.953 --> 00:34:03.333

John Boyle: It just so happens to be the largest one in West Virginia. And it's a wonderful

00:34:03.333 --> 00:34:07.853

John Boyle: organization with wonderful pastors and they changed my life,

00:34:08.013 --> 00:34:09.973

John Boyle: Kevin. Wow. Completely.

00:34:10.433 --> 00:34:13.273

John Boyle: Well, Well, we both know that God and Jesus did that, right?

00:34:13.373 --> 00:34:19.753

John Boyle: But they were the catalyst and they were so welcoming and so kind and invited

00:34:19.753 --> 00:34:22.593

John Boyle: me as I was. Yeah. And accepted, right?

00:34:22.733 --> 00:34:22.933

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

00:34:23.113 --> 00:34:24.193

John Boyle: That's discipleship.

00:34:24.493 --> 00:34:30.333

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely. What was your experience like at the rehab facility?

00:34:30.533 --> 00:34:33.453

Kevin Lowe: Or I'm not sure the correct term for it.

00:34:34.152 --> 00:34:39.412

John Boyle: That's what I call it, Kevin. Okay. Okay. I've heard it called a clinic before,

00:34:39.472 --> 00:34:44.192

John Boyle: but so I, I prayed, I guess, selfishly, right?

00:34:44.652 --> 00:34:48.612

John Boyle: I prayed the night before I left for rehab and I just said, God,

00:34:48.672 --> 00:34:52.092

John Boyle: I'm done with this. Please help me. Please help me get over the hump.

00:34:52.572 --> 00:34:57.392

John Boyle: Please take the urges away. The morning I left, I got on the plane and I was shaking.

00:34:57.492 --> 00:35:05.052

John Boyle: I was in bad shape. and when I landed, went straight to the rehab clinic and it was in Florida.

00:35:05.312 --> 00:35:10.232

John Boyle: There that day, I was diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder.

00:35:10.472 --> 00:35:19.292

John Boyle: I was also diagnosed with alcohol use disorder and I was given a tranquilizer to help me.

00:35:19.612 --> 00:35:24.432

John Boyle: Basically the tranquilizer in rehab, it helps you detox. It tricks your mind

00:35:24.432 --> 00:35:27.492

John Boyle: into thinking that you have alcohol, but actually it's a replicate.

00:35:27.772 --> 00:35:34.332

John Boyle: And so once I was given that tranquilizer, I slept for about 14 hours and woke

00:35:34.332 --> 00:35:37.172

John Boyle: up sober for the first time in over 10 years.

00:35:37.552 --> 00:35:37.992

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

00:35:38.292 --> 00:35:44.832

John Boyle: And dude, it hurt. Far late 10 years where the hangovers into one day and yeah,

00:35:44.972 --> 00:35:48.792

John Boyle: it was a tough one, but I got through it and the urges were gone the next day.

00:35:48.952 --> 00:35:51.472

John Boyle: Really? I've never had an urge to drink again. Really?

00:35:51.732 --> 00:35:55.372

John Boyle: God took those urges away. Wow. Absolutely.

00:35:55.832 --> 00:35:59.212

John Boyle: I can sit here and say, yeah, I was given a tranquilizer and it helped,

00:35:59.312 --> 00:36:00.852

John Boyle: but God took the urges away.

00:36:01.012 --> 00:36:04.452

John Boyle: I've not drank since that day. That was April 1st, 2017.

00:36:05.012 --> 00:36:05.572

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

00:36:06.112 --> 00:36:07.392

John Boyle: 2014. I'm sorry.

00:36:07.572 --> 00:36:14.712

Kevin Lowe: Wow. That's absolutely remarkable. And it is absolutely, absolutely.

00:36:15.432 --> 00:36:23.712

Kevin Lowe: How did your life look different and does it still look different today without alcohol? Yeah.

00:36:24.412 --> 00:36:29.572

John Boyle: Hmm. Very much so. The immediate things that I saw changed were the obvious ones.

00:36:29.792 --> 00:36:33.592

John Boyle: Like, oh, I've got a bunch more free time now because I'm not sitting around

00:36:33.592 --> 00:36:34.852

John Boyle: drinking or going to bars.

00:36:35.152 --> 00:36:39.872

John Boyle: And boy, I have a lot more money in my checkbook, right? Because I'm not buying alcohol.

00:36:40.312 --> 00:36:46.492

John Boyle: But those are superficial answers, right? The real change happens in parenting.

00:36:46.812 --> 00:36:48.832

John Boyle: The real change happened in

00:36:48.832 --> 00:36:54.872

John Boyle: me starting to seek who God wanted me to be and what he wanted me to do.

00:36:54.972 --> 00:36:59.312

John Boyle: I grew much more as a Christian in rehab and outside of rehab.

00:36:59.732 --> 00:37:08.372

John Boyle: And I grew a lot personally in my understanding of my disorder and understanding

00:37:08.372 --> 00:37:14.212

John Boyle: the things that I needed to change and in mending some of the

00:37:14.252 --> 00:37:18.072

John Boyle: damage that I'd done as an alcoholic, right?

00:37:18.252 --> 00:37:26.192

John Boyle: I didn't do a lot of damage to others. Most of it was to myself and that had to be repaired too.

00:37:26.472 --> 00:37:32.972

John Boyle: And so it took a lot of time to heal and I got help as I needed it. I read a ton.

00:37:33.232 --> 00:37:39.352

John Boyle: I started reading the Bible every day and I could give you 10 or 12 more examples

00:37:39.352 --> 00:37:43.712

John Boyle: of things that happened in my career and personal life that just, I mean,

00:37:43.752 --> 00:37:52.912

John Boyle: it's unfathomable for me coming from where I have to be a part of what I ended

00:37:52.912 --> 00:37:55.872

John Boyle: up doing after I got sober and God coming into my life.

00:37:56.152 --> 00:38:04.572

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. What I love about your story, though, is that's not the end.

00:38:05.592 --> 00:38:12.192

Kevin Lowe: No. Because you, and obviously there's a lot that you can fill in the gaps as

00:38:12.192 --> 00:38:15.152

Kevin Lowe: needed, but you would actually decide to go back to school.

00:38:15.532 --> 00:38:19.172

John Boyle: I did. About a year after I got sober.

00:38:19.552 --> 00:38:25.132

John Boyle: I'm all about education. I believe I'm going to strive to get better and be

00:38:25.132 --> 00:38:27.472

John Boyle: the best version of myself until the day I die.

00:38:27.852 --> 00:38:32.972

John Boyle: And I've always been big into education. and I was a part of a group called

00:38:32.972 --> 00:38:36.012

John Boyle: YPO, which stands for Young Presidents Organization.

00:38:37.112 --> 00:38:41.532

John Boyle: And it's really a networking and learning organization for young presidents

00:38:41.532 --> 00:38:44.652

John Boyle: and CEOs who need polishing.

00:38:44.992 --> 00:38:51.432

John Boyle: And so I was on a trip, an educational trip, and I was one of the only people

00:38:51.432 --> 00:38:53.452

John Boyle: in the group who didn't drink.

00:38:53.572 --> 00:38:58.872

John Boyle: And so there was a happy hour event and I was on the beach reading a book instead

00:38:58.872 --> 00:38:59.972

John Boyle: of standing around a bar.

00:39:00.552 --> 00:39:04.732

John Boyle: And a guy rolls up to me on a beach in a wheelchair. I'd never seen that before.

00:39:06.318 --> 00:39:10.638

John Boyle: And he rolls up and he says, what do you read? So I answer him and we start talking.

00:39:10.958 --> 00:39:15.578

John Boyle: He asked me what I do and what my past has been like.

00:39:15.738 --> 00:39:18.978

John Boyle: And so I'm talking to this guy, kind of wondering, you know,

00:39:18.978 --> 00:39:21.918

John Boyle: where he's gone with this. And he looks at me and he says, have you ever thought

00:39:21.918 --> 00:39:23.518

John Boyle: about going to Harvard Business School?

00:39:23.818 --> 00:39:26.798

John Boyle: And I looked at him, Kevin, and I just started busting out laughing.

00:39:27.558 --> 00:39:30.958

John Boyle: I'm like, there's no way that place is letting me in.

00:39:31.118 --> 00:39:34.498

John Boyle: And he just looked at me and very nicely said, do you like this island?

00:39:34.498 --> 00:39:36.418

John Boyle: Island. Yeah, man, it's a beautiful island.

00:39:36.658 --> 00:39:40.358

John Boyle: He said, that's nice because I own it. And I'm going to give you a piece of

00:39:40.358 --> 00:39:41.738

John Boyle: advice and I hope you listen to me.

00:39:41.858 --> 00:39:44.918

John Boyle: He said, my name's David V. Johnson. I'm from Detroit, Michigan.

00:39:45.178 --> 00:39:49.018

John Boyle: And I think you're an excellent candidate to go to this program that I went to.

00:39:49.278 --> 00:39:53.758

John Boyle: And if you apply online, you can put my name at the bottom.

00:39:53.878 --> 00:39:57.938

John Boyle: And he said his name again. I'd never met that man before that moment.

00:39:58.058 --> 00:40:05.278

John Boyle: I've never talked to him since, but I took his advice. I applied and I got in like three weeks later.

00:40:05.338 --> 00:40:08.858

John Boyle: And then I had to figure out like I really wasn't expecting to get in.

00:40:08.938 --> 00:40:13.358

John Boyle: Then I had to figure out how I was going to do my job and go to Boston to go to school.

00:40:13.458 --> 00:40:17.638

John Boyle: And so I figured that out and I went.

00:40:17.878 --> 00:40:22.478

John Boyle: And in 2017, at 40 years old, I graduated from Harvard University.

00:40:23.098 --> 00:40:23.618

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

00:40:24.418 --> 00:40:25.718

John Boyle: It's incredible. Wow.

00:40:26.538 --> 00:40:35.198

Kevin Lowe: More incredible than a kid who in sixth grade was told he'd never even graduate high school.

00:40:35.338 --> 00:40:42.998

Kevin Lowe: More incredible than that is the fact of the power of Jesus Christ to put you

00:40:42.998 --> 00:40:45.418

Kevin Lowe: in that position on that beach,

00:40:46.238 --> 00:40:51.378

Kevin Lowe: reading a book, and then that man right at the right time, right in the right

00:40:51.378 --> 00:40:56.018

Kevin Lowe: place, all was made and it was all part of the plan.

00:40:56.398 --> 00:40:59.398

Kevin Lowe: And that is magical, my friend.

00:40:59.678 --> 00:41:05.218

John Boyle: It is. It's so good. And it made for such an awesome story that,

00:41:05.258 --> 00:41:10.458

John Boyle: you know, I really I sat in my basement for two years and made sure that I explained

00:41:10.458 --> 00:41:14.078

John Boyle: it in the best way possible, because if he'll do that for me,

00:41:14.218 --> 00:41:16.598

John Boyle: he'll do it for the people listening to your call.

00:41:17.058 --> 00:41:19.258

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

00:41:20.172 --> 00:41:26.412

Kevin Lowe: So you've graduated once, you know, with engineering degree.

00:41:26.772 --> 00:41:31.512

Kevin Lowe: Now you graduate at 40 years old from Harvard Business School.

00:41:32.072 --> 00:41:35.892

Kevin Lowe: Where does writing a book fit into this whole puzzle?

00:41:37.312 --> 00:41:42.432

John Boyle: Well, there was one step in between this. So between my second and third year at Harvard,

00:41:42.592 --> 00:41:50.692

John Boyle: because of my difficulties with post-traumatic stress disorder and my frustration

00:41:50.692 --> 00:41:55.032

John Boyle: with just trying to navigate a family business and having that disorder.

00:41:55.472 --> 00:42:00.232

John Boyle: My dad came back into the business and we were at odds on several things.

00:42:01.032 --> 00:42:05.052

John Boyle: And when we would be at odds, sometimes he would get elevated.

00:42:05.272 --> 00:42:10.172

John Boyle: And once he got elevated, it put me in a bad place. And there was only so much I could take of that.

00:42:10.312 --> 00:42:14.972

John Boyle: And at this point in my late 30s, I wasn't drinking and I'm not getting that,

00:42:14.972 --> 00:42:18.912

John Boyle: that drug to take the edge off. And I just couldn't deal with it anymore.

00:42:19.252 --> 00:42:28.232

John Boyle: And I resigned my, I resigned my position as CEO a few months before my third year at Harvard.

00:42:28.692 --> 00:42:36.652

John Boyle: And so, you know, after, after I graduated, I started to seek opportunities elsewhere.

00:42:37.112 --> 00:42:42.592

John Boyle: And I found a company in, it's a Charlotte-based bridge building company,

00:42:42.772 --> 00:42:45.672

John Boyle: and they do a lot of work in South Carolina and Georgia.

00:42:46.032 --> 00:42:49.532

John Boyle: I found an opportunity there as a chief operating officer.

00:42:49.912 --> 00:42:54.632

John Boyle: And so in my last year at Harvard, I was at a company called United Infrastructure

00:42:54.632 --> 00:42:56.772

John Boyle: Group, and I'm still there today. But-

00:42:57.460 --> 00:43:02.620

John Boyle: When, after about a year of being in the Charlotte area, my oldest son,

00:43:02.680 --> 00:43:07.420

John Boyle: who was 11, really needed a dad closer than being home every other weekend.

00:43:07.620 --> 00:43:09.900

John Boyle: And so I chose to move back for

00:43:09.900 --> 00:43:13.740

John Boyle: my son's benefit and really just help him get to where he needs to get.

00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.480

John Boyle: And so I kind of furloughed my own career to do that. And then the pandemic

00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:20.680

John Boyle: hit. And when the pandemic hit, then I had the time.

00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:26.420

John Boyle: I stopped being able to be a board member in several positions that I had,

00:43:26.600 --> 00:43:31.020

John Boyle: paying positions, because I have asthma and I was scared to get on a plane.

00:43:31.180 --> 00:43:35.420

John Boyle: And right, wrong, or indifferent, that grounded me. And I was at home and I'm

00:43:35.420 --> 00:43:42.960

John Boyle: not someone, Kevin, who sits around and does nothing. And I just kept feeling

00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.260

John Boyle: this calling to write a book.

00:43:45.380 --> 00:43:52.760

John Boyle: And years previous to that feeling and that calling, I had some Harvard classmates,

00:43:53.160 --> 00:43:55.940

John Boyle: one in particular, Thomas Wigelman, Dr.

00:43:56.080 --> 00:44:00.140

John Boyle: Thomas Wigelman from Munich, Germany, who just kept hounding me.

00:44:00.140 --> 00:44:03.320

John Boyle: You've got to write a book, John, you've got to tell your story.

00:44:03.460 --> 00:44:11.000

John Boyle: And I told a really brief version of my story in a family business class in Boston in my first year.

00:44:11.460 --> 00:44:15.780

John Boyle: And, you know, I was encouraged by many people to write a book about it because

00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:20.040

John Boyle: it's just an interesting story that you don't hear really at all.

00:44:20.100 --> 00:44:24.660

John Boyle: I don't think in books and in business class and, you know, family businesses

00:44:24.660 --> 00:44:28.740

John Boyle: are tough, but most family members will not talk about it because they They

00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:30.380

John Boyle: don't want to make the other family members mad.

00:44:30.660 --> 00:44:33.360

Kevin Lowe: And so for that very reason,

00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:37.940

John Boyle: I didn't want to write a book. And so I'd had a friend or two hounding me for a couple years.

00:44:39.410 --> 00:44:43.630

John Boyle: When the pandemic hit, to make a long story short, that's when things changed

00:44:43.630 --> 00:44:46.990

John Boyle: and I started seriously considering it and getting underway.

00:44:47.270 --> 00:44:55.730

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Okay. Okay. So it's one thing to decide you're going to write a book.

00:44:55.830 --> 00:44:59.990

Kevin Lowe: It's a whole other thing to actually write a book and publish it.

00:45:00.150 --> 00:45:06.030

Kevin Lowe: How was that process for you? Especially the fact of you had to force yourself

00:45:06.030 --> 00:45:10.290

Kevin Lowe: to go back. I'm sure, to a lot of memories that were hard.

00:45:10.750 --> 00:45:15.730

Kevin Lowe: What was it like for you to be able to make it through all of that and come

00:45:15.730 --> 00:45:22.010

Kevin Lowe: up with this finished product, this amazing book that you would be comfortable

00:45:22.010 --> 00:45:24.030

Kevin Lowe: then sharing with the world?

00:45:24.290 --> 00:45:28.230

John Boyle: It was a long journey and it was as difficult as you can imagine,

00:45:28.390 --> 00:45:32.830

John Boyle: especially the parts about going back to childhood and admitting,

00:45:32.990 --> 00:45:36.470

John Boyle: right, that you went through this to yourself and to others.

00:45:36.670 --> 00:45:44.030

John Boyle: And then the thought of it being public and well, there's no more secrets in your life.

00:45:44.630 --> 00:45:47.730

John Boyle: That's overwhelming when you first start the journey.

00:45:48.130 --> 00:45:53.250

John Boyle: And don't forget now that I've never taken a writing class in my life.

00:45:53.750 --> 00:46:00.150

John Boyle: Never. I hadn't had any type of writing training other than what I had at Kiske

00:46:00.150 --> 00:46:02.090

John Boyle: Prep School in the early nineties.

00:46:02.430 --> 00:46:06.150

John Boyle: And past 12th grade, I'd never really written a paper.

00:46:06.490 --> 00:46:09.110

John Boyle: Again, I went to engineering school because I didn't want to.

00:46:09.530 --> 00:46:13.170

John Boyle: I was dead set in my thoughts that I'm an engineer and not a writer.

00:46:13.430 --> 00:46:15.550

John Boyle: So it was hard for me to get off base from that.

00:46:16.428 --> 00:46:19.708

John Boyle: And even though I'm not a writer, I love to read.

00:46:20.228 --> 00:46:26.528

John Boyle: And I would say, especially after I quit drinking, I would read all the time.

00:46:26.528 --> 00:46:31.128

John Boyle: Some nights I would read a whole book from start to finish because it kept my

00:46:31.128 --> 00:46:36.628

John Boyle: mind focused on something and kept me out of trouble. So why not do it? Right.

00:46:37.148 --> 00:46:42.808

John Boyle: And you learn from reading. So I knew what a reader wanted in a book,

00:46:42.908 --> 00:46:44.288

John Boyle: or at least I thought I did.

00:46:44.468 --> 00:46:50.168

John Boyle: But being able to transcribe that to sitting with a laptop on your lap and writing

00:46:50.168 --> 00:46:52.208

John Boyle: doesn't necessarily translate.

00:46:52.208 --> 00:46:56.108

John Boyle: And so really, I had to write

00:46:56.108 --> 00:47:01.348

John Boyle: a whole first draft the whole way through the book and throw it away before

00:47:01.348 --> 00:47:07.808

John Boyle: I really knew how to write a book that could take a reader up and down in the

00:47:07.808 --> 00:47:14.408

John Boyle: joys and pitfalls of my life and make it engaging and keep people reading and,

00:47:14.468 --> 00:47:21.428

John Boyle: you know, tell stories with inside within facts of what had happened in my life.

00:47:21.428 --> 00:47:26.788

John Boyle: Life to, to make it a journey that people could engage with and relate to.

00:47:27.008 --> 00:47:31.708

John Boyle: And so, you know, the one good thing I have had in my, in my life is growing

00:47:31.708 --> 00:47:36.988

John Boyle: up in West Virginia and storytelling is something that happens in the country and it's an art form.

00:47:37.128 --> 00:47:42.228

John Boyle: And so, you know, this like recognition of having an inner voice and telling

00:47:42.228 --> 00:47:48.568

John Boyle: a story in a unique way is what really in the second draft made my book what it is.

00:47:48.748 --> 00:47:53.068

John Boyle: And the one thing that I didn't know when I was writing was I didn't know where

00:47:53.068 --> 00:47:53.988

John Boyle: I was going to end the book.

00:47:54.108 --> 00:48:00.348

John Boyle: And so what gave me so much difficulty in the first draft was I wasn't writing

00:48:00.348 --> 00:48:01.668

John Boyle: a book with the end in mind.

00:48:02.348 --> 00:48:07.688

John Boyle: And that's what I realized in the second draft that I didn't get in the first.

00:48:07.908 --> 00:48:14.048

John Boyle: When you write with an end in mind, every story, every chapter has purpose and

00:48:14.048 --> 00:48:16.048

John Boyle: builds to, to your ending.

00:48:16.328 --> 00:48:19.228

John Boyle: And, and it just gives it the right context. And,

00:48:19.268 --> 00:48:24.248

John Boyle: and I wanted to write a book to Kevin that took people up and down and made

00:48:24.248 --> 00:48:29.408

John Boyle: people laugh and cry because some of the subjects of my life are very sad and

00:48:29.408 --> 00:48:32.968

John Boyle: not everybody just wants to read a sad book and only be sad.

00:48:33.348 --> 00:48:38.388

John Boyle: And so I tried to have fun with it and that helped me get through the difficulty

00:48:38.388 --> 00:48:39.848

John Boyle: of writing the sad parts.

00:48:41.048 --> 00:48:45.928

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. Upon completion of your book, what has been the feedback you've

00:48:45.928 --> 00:48:51.008

Kevin Lowe: gotten from strangers and even people you know, family members?

00:48:51.508 --> 00:48:52.508

John Boyle: Oh, it's been...

00:48:53.391 --> 00:48:57.791

John Boyle: It's been overwhelming. It's been so good. It's been so encouraging.

00:48:58.191 --> 00:49:05.851

John Boyle: I think this is my 15th podcast, Kevin, not only during the publishing and people

00:49:05.851 --> 00:49:09.031

John Boyle: reading and getting back to me and saying, hey, I loved your book.

00:49:09.331 --> 00:49:17.311

John Boyle: Or, you know, some of the best compliments I've had is I had one woman who emailed me at like 6 a.m.

00:49:17.511 --> 00:49:23.151

John Boyle: And she said, hey, I got your book yesterday and I picked it up and I opened a few pages.

00:49:23.611 --> 00:49:26.151

John Boyle: And I couldn't put it down. I read the whole thing last night.

00:49:26.231 --> 00:49:28.411

John Boyle: I'm just going to bed right now at 6 a.m.

00:49:28.931 --> 00:49:33.291

John Boyle: You did a wonderful job. I'm like, I didn't, Kevin, I didn't think anybody would buy it.

00:49:33.811 --> 00:49:36.871

John Boyle: I gotta be honest with you. I didn't think anybody would publish it.

00:49:36.971 --> 00:49:41.071

John Boyle: And this is like just being short-sighted, right? Because God had a plan and

00:49:41.071 --> 00:49:44.031

John Boyle: I'm like kind of fighting it the whole way.

00:49:44.131 --> 00:49:47.191

John Boyle: Like God, no, I really don't want to write this book.

00:49:47.511 --> 00:49:51.311

John Boyle: I really don't want to talk about these these things? And what's the purpose?

00:49:51.371 --> 00:49:52.491

John Boyle: It's already done, right?

00:49:52.651 --> 00:49:56.231

John Boyle: And now I know, right, that God is using my story for good.

00:49:56.291 --> 00:50:01.451

John Boyle: And he's using my story to bring people closer to him. And he's using it to help people.

00:50:01.651 --> 00:50:04.631

John Boyle: And I'm flattered and honored by that.

00:50:04.951 --> 00:50:10.671

John Boyle: And a lot of the feedback I've gotten, I've gotten feedback from alcoholics

00:50:10.671 --> 00:50:13.831

John Boyle: who are trying to quit or have already quit and are trying to stay sober.

00:50:14.251 --> 00:50:21.231

John Boyle: I've gotten feedback from people who have struggled with the same upbringing

00:50:21.231 --> 00:50:23.991

John Boyle: as a child in a violent home that I have.

00:50:24.191 --> 00:50:28.611

John Boyle: And some of these people are well-known, right? Two of them,

00:50:28.691 --> 00:50:29.871

John Boyle: United States senators.

00:50:30.291 --> 00:50:36.611

John Boyle: And it's just, it's been incredible to hear people just open up to me and share

00:50:36.611 --> 00:50:39.271

John Boyle: their own difficulty and their own journey.

00:50:39.371 --> 00:50:45.191

John Boyle: And to hear Thank you from people like that for saying, I haven't felt like

00:50:45.191 --> 00:50:49.571

John Boyle: I could tell my story because of the retribution I would receive from my family

00:50:49.571 --> 00:50:54.311

John Boyle: and what it might do to fracture it. But I'm so thankful that you told yours.

00:50:55.031 --> 00:50:58.171

John Boyle: I've had, I'll say one more thing and I'll be quiet.

00:50:58.651 --> 00:51:03.891

John Boyle: I've had colleagues on boards, boards of directors as recently as a few months

00:51:03.891 --> 00:51:06.751

John Boyle: ago, tell me, Hey, I, I read your book.

00:51:06.851 --> 00:51:11.711

John Boyle: I loved it. And I bought three more copies and I gave them to my children because

00:51:11.711 --> 00:51:15.571

John Boyle: I want them to see, one, what can happen when you get off track in your life,

00:51:15.591 --> 00:51:16.891

John Boyle: but two, the goodness of God.

00:51:17.071 --> 00:51:21.651

John Boyle: And it's just and what an honor. Yeah, I can't say it in another way.

00:51:21.831 --> 00:51:27.911

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. An honor. Please remind us the name of your book and where

00:51:27.911 --> 00:51:33.111

Kevin Lowe: somebody can find your book who's excited enough to read it because,

00:51:33.171 --> 00:51:36.771

Kevin Lowe: I mean, my goodness, you've sold us on it like nobody's business.

00:51:36.991 --> 00:51:39.691

Kevin Lowe: So where can we find it?

00:51:39.771 --> 00:51:44.191

John Boyle: And thank you. Thank you. This has been awesome for your listeners.

00:51:44.451 --> 00:51:50.351

John Boyle: My book, the name of my book is Appalachian Kid, Appalachian Kid.

00:51:51.240 --> 00:51:56.140

John Boyle: And it can be found on Amazon. There's hardback, there's paperback copy,

00:51:56.360 --> 00:52:01.240

John Boyle: there's a Kindle copy, and there's also an audio book.

00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:09.360

John Boyle: And if you type in my name, John Boyle, Appalachian Kid, it will pop up and you can buy it there.

00:52:09.520 --> 00:52:17.960

John Boyle: I also have a website, AppalachianKid.com, and there's a little bio of me and

00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:21.740

John Boyle: there's some endorsements that I received when I first published my book.

00:52:22.100 --> 00:52:26.600

John Boyle: And there's also a synopsis of the book itself, which gives the reader just

00:52:26.600 --> 00:52:28.200

John Boyle: a nutshell of what they'll be reading.

00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:31.920

John Boyle: But of course, anybody that listens to your show is going to know more than

00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:33.480

John Boyle: the synopsis would tell them.

00:52:33.580 --> 00:52:36.200

John Boyle: And I'm also on LinkedIn, John P. Boyle.

00:52:36.680 --> 00:52:42.940

Kevin Lowe: Amazing. John, I will be positive that everything is in the episode show notes

00:52:42.940 --> 00:52:47.480

Kevin Lowe: for anybody Anybody interested, please just check out the show notes for today's

00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:49.460

Kevin Lowe: episode for easy access.

00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:56.400

Kevin Lowe: John, man, I want to thank you so much today for sharing your story,

00:52:56.540 --> 00:52:59.480

Kevin Lowe: for taking us really on this journey.

00:52:59.700 --> 00:53:07.040

Kevin Lowe: And I want to say that I'm so happy for you and the place that you are today,

00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:09.340

Kevin Lowe: what you have overcome. come.

00:53:09.740 --> 00:53:17.580

Kevin Lowe: Life hasn't been easy, but I look at you and I think what an amazing testimony

00:53:17.580 --> 00:53:20.240

Kevin Lowe: you are to the power of God.

00:53:20.660 --> 00:53:24.300

John Boyle: Amen, brother. Amen. I couldn't have said it better.

00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:29.740

John Boyle: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. And I really hope this brings

00:53:29.740 --> 00:53:31.020

John Boyle: value to your listeners.

00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:34.060

John Boyle: It's been a great podcast. Thank you for having me.

00:53:34.380 --> 00:53:37.420

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely. Absolutely. For you listening today.

00:53:37.820 --> 00:53:43.500

Kevin Lowe: I hope, as always, that you've enjoyed our conversation with John as much as I have.

00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:48.000

Kevin Lowe: Such an amazing guy with such a heartfelt story to share.

00:53:48.180 --> 00:53:53.700

Kevin Lowe: I hope that something said today can be an impact to you in your life.

00:53:54.020 --> 00:53:58.220

Kevin Lowe: If something did resonate, if something made you think of somebody in your life,

00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:00.360

Kevin Lowe: please share today's episode with them.

00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:04.400

Kevin Lowe: That would be amazing. amazing and don't forget to check out the show notes

00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:10.580

Kevin Lowe: for all of the links to find john's book until next time i'm kevin lowe and

00:54:10.580 --> 00:54:13.440

Kevin Lowe: of course this is grit grace and inspiration

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:32.751

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