Show Notes
Are you ready to dive into a story that twists the fabric of family ties and personal truth? What does it take to stand boldly in your identity, especially when it's at odds with those you love?
This isn't just another coming out story; it's a saga of courage, confrontation, and the complex dance of family dynamics.
Who Is This Best For?
Perfect for anyone wrestling with their identity or seeking inspiration on how to handle difficult family conversations with grace and audacity. This episode promises to be as enlightening as it is enthralling, offering you the roadmap to navigating the rough waters of acceptance and self-realization.
What's It All About?
Join your host, Kevin Lowe, for a fabulous ride with John Neral as he recounts his vibrant and poignant journey of coming out as gay within a staunchly conservative family. From explosive revelations to heartfelt reconciliations, John's story isn't just about surviving; it's about thriving against the odds. His narrative is packed with sharp wit, raw emotion, and triumphant moments that celebrate the human spirit in all its colors.
Key Takeaways:
- Master the art of conversation that turns conflict into compassion.
- Discover the power of self-acceptance and its transformative impact on personal and family relationships.
- Learn how to build and leverage a support network that sees you through life's toughest challenges.
LINKS & RESOURCES
- MyPillow's $25 Extravaganza! Use Promo Code KEVIN to save BIG!
- Send your prayer requests via text to 877-749-8178 or email Podcast@LoweDownMedia.com
- Grab your free RISE & THRIVE: Personal Development Tracker!
- Visit John's website to join The Mid-Career GPS Newsletter, a free, twice-weekly career and leadership resource for mid-career professionals.
- Connect with John on LinkedIn
- Follow John on Instagram @johnneralcoaching
- Subscribe to John's YouTube Channel
BE IN THE KNOW!
CLICK HERE to Get on The OFFICIAL Email List for the Podcast!
Hey, it's Kevin!
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© 2024 Grit, Grace, & Inspiration
Show Transcript
Are you wondering if today's episode is really for you? Well,
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I'm going to make it really easy. I got three criteria.
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First, are you human? Second, do you have a family?
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And three, have you ever gotten in an argument, a disagreement,
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had a rift in the family that has caused a little bit of drama?
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If you checked those three boxes, then yes, today's episode is indeed for you.
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When I sat down to interview today's guest, John Nero, I thought it was a coming out story.
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It took him 18 years to come out to his parents that he was gay.
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And I thought that was the highlight of this interview.
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But the fact is true that it wasn't.
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The highlight is what comes next. It is mending of relationships.
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It's bringing a family back together. It is him trying to show you what it means to be a family.
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You might argue, you might say some things that you wish you didn't,
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but the fact is true, it is a relationship and sometimes it takes a little bit of work.
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My hope in you hearing John's story is, well, that it might be that spark to
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inspire you to maybe reach out to your family.
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Maybe there's been a rift for
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way too long, and I'm here to tell you that this life is way too short.
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In our family, they mean everything.
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So if you have a rift in your family with a family member, I hope that today's
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episode not only inspires you, but also gives you the tools to reach out to
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that person and to start to mend those broken fences.
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Today is episode 286. Today is my interview with John Darrell.
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What's up, my friend, and welcome to Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.
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I am your host, Kevin Lowe.
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20 years ago, I awoke from a life-saving surgery only to find that I was left completely blind.
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And since that day, I've learned a lot about life, a lot about living, and a lot about myself.
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And here on this podcast, I want to share those insights with you.
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Because friend, if you are still searching for your purpose,
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still trying to understand why, or still left searching for that next right
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path to take, we'll consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from
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where you are to where you want to be.
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Today's prayer request comes from a woman who you will actually be hearing from later this summer.
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Her name is Dr. Robin Hall.
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I just had the pleasure of speaking with her the other day about being a guest here on the podcast.
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And while we were talking, she mentioned her friend, Julie. Julie and her friend
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has been suffering from brain cancer.
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And so I wanted today to ask you to help me in praying for Julie to,
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of course, pray for healing, but also for comfort and peace,
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both for her and for her friends and family.
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Again, her name is Julie, and it would be amazing if you could help me in praying for her today.
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And remember, if you have something that you would love to have some others
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helping you in praying for, well, send it to me via text message to 877-749-8178.
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That's right. You can send your prayer request to be featured on an upcoming
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episode of the podcast as a text message to 877-749-8178.
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As you listen to today's interview with John Nero, as I said in the intro,
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he's going to give you some really amazing techniques that he's learned in his
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own life that are going to help you with your relationships.
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But one thing he didn't mention is something that I want to tell you is that
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if you have a rift in the family,
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what better way to reach out to that person than by giving them a gift from MyPillow. Absolutely.
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And here is the cool thing. They are going to think that, oh my gosh,
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they just spent this kind of money on me.
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But they didn't know that you had promo code Kevin, and that got you access
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to the $25 extravaganza.
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Yes, some of their very best products are on sale for only $25.
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All you have to do is use promo code Kevin. when shopping at MyPillow.com to
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get access to those amazing deals.
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So with that, it's time for you to get shopping, fixing some relationships,
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and having everybody sleeping a little bit better.
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I had a great childhood. I mean, we never wanted for anything in that regard.
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I grew up along the Jersey Shore, a couple blocks away from the ocean,
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which was a great place to grow up.
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And not like the MTV Jersey Shore, but a little different than that.
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I have two older sisters.
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My parents had me a little bit later in their life.
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So my mom was three weeks before her 43rd birthday when she had me.
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I was definitely a change of life baby for both of them.
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And yeah, it was just I grew up in a very staunch Catholic household.
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Religion was very important growing up. I had an uncle who was a Catholic priest.
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East. He was my mom's brother who had a very predominant presence in the family, I'll say.
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You know, it was just, it was, it was a really good childhood overall. I have no complaints.
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Yeah. Well, that's great. Now your sisters, how much older were both of your sisters?
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So I have one sister who is 18 years older than me and I have another sister
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who is 10 years older than me.
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And so as a point of reference, I'm 55.
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Yes. Okay. Well, now with such a massive gap growing up, did you get to really
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spend much time with either of them and really get to know them as a kid or not really?
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Not really. So my oldest sister, I was four when she got married.
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And so while I remember growing up, it was oftentimes it was her and her husband.
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For my other sister, who's 10 years older than me, she was the one I was closer
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to in that I would always ask things like, can we have some time?
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Like, can I have some time? I want to play.
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And for her as a teenager, having to deal with a brother who was 10 years younger
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than her and probably being a pest most of the time, she had her own friends
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and she had her own life that she was wanting to lead.
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So yeah, there was time, but it wasn't a really close or proximal sibling type relationship.
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Okay. Okay. Understandable. That's kind of what I expected you to say with the
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large gap in years. It only kind of makes sense.
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Moving right along in your story, talk to me about 10 years old,
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because I read something that just absolutely made me crack up.
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And I would love for you to share this story about being 10. him. Yeah, absolutely.
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So the year is 1979.
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And again, I grew up in a very staunch Catholic household and things happened.
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And I can't tell this story without acknowledging an event that happened to
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my sister who was 10 years older than me. She was 18 and she got pregnant.
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And I will share with you, Kevin, as well as everybody who's listening that
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in my opinion and in my perspective, nobody handled it well.
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And of course, how could they, right? This was something which we didn't hear
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a lot of, and it was often swept under the rug.
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And there was shame and embarrassment and anger and frustration and all of those kinds of things.
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And that's the relationship that my parents and my sister had to deal with.
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I, on the other hand, Kevin, was collateral damage.
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And I say that because when my sister broke the news to my parents,
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and we had a two-story house, and I was upstairs looking through the spindles
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and the railing trying to see what was going on, there was a lot of yelling,
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there was a lot of screaming,
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there was a lot of crying, and then there was a door slam.
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And my sister had left.
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And my mom called me downstairs and she sat me on her lap.
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And with tears in her eyes, she looked at me and she said, what your sister did was very bad.
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And if you ever go to bed with a woman before you're married,
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I hope you see my face instead of hers.
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Oh, no. Yeah. Let that one sit in. Let that sink in for a moment, everybody.
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Wow. Yeah. So, you know, so when you're 10 and you want to be a good son and
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you realize there's been a lot of upset and a lot of crying and you,
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you know, you just, you know, I'm like, okay. Yeah.
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Can I go back and watch TV? Like, all right. Like, I don't want to make my mom
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more upset than what she already is.
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But it opens up the bigger question, which was at 10 years old,
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did I really know that I was gay? Yes.
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And it wasn't until 16 years after that day or that year when I was 26 that
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I had finally uttered the words to some good friends of mine and said, I think I'm gay.
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And it wasn't until I was 28 when I came out to my parents.
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And that is a whole nother chapter in this story, which I'm sure we'll get to as well.
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Yeah. Wow, wow, wow. So, yes, what your mother said is terrifying to anybody, no doubt.
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Oh, my gosh. gosh, that is just, that is such a thing that like a mother would
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say in the heat of the moment, like that just literally can torture you for
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the rest of your life. Yeah, absolutely.
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Right. And you think about her upset and her grief and her desire to control,
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like this, this is what she thought was, you know, she was doing to keep me
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on the quote, quote unquote, right path.
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And Kevin, where it became a source of contention for us was that,
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you know, I dated a little bit when I was in high school and college,
00:11:06.771 --> 00:11:10.751
but it never went anywhere, right? And to clarify, I dated women.
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And of course, you know, the biggest fear is, oh my gosh, if I get one of them
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pregnant, I'm going to kill my parents kind of a thing, with all that upset.
00:11:20.171 --> 00:11:24.371
But my mom would joke about it with her friends and they'd be like,
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Like, oh, well, how'd you keep John to be such a good kid?
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And how did you raise John? And my mother would joke about that day and said,
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oh yeah, well, I just told him if he ever goes to bed with a woman before he's
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married, I hope he sees my face instead of hers.
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And I was 18 and my parents were hosting this party. We had a lot of people over the house, Kevin.
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And she told this joke and I was so mad and I was so upset and I leaned into
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the group and I went, mama said nothing about going to bed with a man.
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And holy crap, did I get it after everybody left.
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She was mad at me. You don't say those kind of things.
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That's not funny. And I said, right, it's not funny.
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The joke needs to stop.
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And I was trying to like test waters to see if there was any way...
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That there might be a change in thinking because I knew how my parents,
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I knew what they believed and I knew what they felt about gay people in general.
00:12:26.907 --> 00:12:31.547
And so I was looking for an avenue to find some kind of acceptance.
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And when I wasn't getting it, it just pushed me further and further back into the closet.
00:12:37.527 --> 00:12:44.407
Yeah. Was there a point, was there an age range when you finally understood
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the feelings that you had that you realized I am gay?
00:12:49.107 --> 00:12:56.827
I remember praying before my 16th birthday for God to make me straight.
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And, and part of that prayer was like to make the thoughts go away.
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Yes. And the 16th birthday came and it didn't.
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And so i was like all right you know and i remember
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i was in i was in my
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mid-20s it was the last woman i had dated and
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we had like gone out and it was like some kind of like pumpkin picking patch
00:13:21.107 --> 00:13:24.927
thing or whatever you know and you get the apple cider donuts or the pumpkin
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donuts or whatever and stuff and and i remember like brought her back to her
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house walked her to the door because all the things you're supposed to do kind of thing.
00:13:34.767 --> 00:13:42.207
And I drove home in tears because I couldn't, you know, I couldn't lead her on.
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My thoughts weren't, you know, with her.
00:13:45.467 --> 00:13:51.747
I certainly felt like I was at a point where I needed to truly acknowledge who
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I am and who I was attracted to because I had never acted on anything at this point.
00:13:58.927 --> 00:14:02.687
And I thought, oh my gosh, I'm lying to myself here.
00:14:02.947 --> 00:14:09.467
And I remember driving home in tears, thinking like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do?
00:14:10.285 --> 00:14:15.265
Hmm. Wow. And you were how old when that happened?
00:14:16.005 --> 00:14:19.305
24, 25. Okay. Okay.
00:14:19.545 --> 00:14:24.105
Had you been living away from home for a while at that point?
00:14:24.105 --> 00:14:31.265
So after I finished my undergraduate work, I had lived away from home for a couple of years.
00:14:31.345 --> 00:14:39.365
And then I moved back home to pursue a master's degree in teaching along with
00:14:39.365 --> 00:14:44.225
a mathematics minor, because I spent 14 years of my life as a mathematics teacher.
00:14:44.225 --> 00:14:50.245
So I had moved back home because my parents and my uncle made me this incredible
00:14:50.245 --> 00:14:51.845
offer I could not refuse,
00:14:52.065 --> 00:14:56.765
which was take two years off, go to school full time, we'll pay for it,
00:14:56.785 --> 00:15:01.025
and get your degree and get your career on the right path.
00:15:01.285 --> 00:15:05.865
And I was and will always be extremely grateful for that opportunity because
00:15:05.865 --> 00:15:13.285
it definitely set my career in motion after I had achieved those degrees. Yeah, absolutely.
00:15:14.305 --> 00:15:21.085
So walk me through then as we're kind of skipping along in this story,
00:15:21.285 --> 00:15:28.825
when you finally did decide to tell your parents and I guess I even preface
00:15:28.825 --> 00:15:34.285
that question by asking what led you to finally tell your parents? Yeah.
00:15:35.025 --> 00:15:39.985
So I'll back skip a little bit here for us to really share just a monumental point.
00:15:40.085 --> 00:15:46.225
There were a couple of friends of mine who were extremely supportive and very encouraging.
00:15:46.385 --> 00:15:50.245
They were a married couple, husband and wife. They had three kids.
00:15:50.365 --> 00:15:54.465
We used to hang out at their house a lot. We knew each other through some common
00:15:54.465 --> 00:15:59.525
activities and stuff. And I looked at my friend Donna one night and I said,
00:15:59.665 --> 00:16:03.545
I'm going to disappoint my parents bigger than my sister ever did.
00:16:03.925 --> 00:16:08.365
And she's like, John, you're like the perfect kid. Like, what could you possibly
00:16:08.365 --> 00:16:10.965
do that would disappoint them?
00:16:11.205 --> 00:16:14.365
And I looked at her and I said, I think I'm gay.
00:16:15.585 --> 00:16:20.025
And she looked at me and she goes, I thought you knew.
00:16:21.385 --> 00:16:25.825
And I was like, huh? And she goes, I just didn't think you told us.
00:16:25.885 --> 00:16:31.705
And at that point, Kevin, and this is where, when we think about grace and empathy
00:16:31.705 --> 00:16:36.245
and kindness, she stopped herself. And she was like.
00:16:37.166 --> 00:16:43.426
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, come here. And she gave me this big hug and she's
00:16:43.426 --> 00:16:47.466
like, how do we be a great friend for you? Oh, wow. And yeah.
00:16:47.926 --> 00:16:54.686
And so what they ended up doing for me, and this is when we think about why
00:16:54.686 --> 00:16:57.266
allyship is so important.
00:16:57.726 --> 00:17:02.026
What they ended up doing for me because they loved me and they were friends
00:17:02.026 --> 00:17:04.546
of mine, they found a group.
00:17:04.886 --> 00:17:08.946
They found a support group about an hour north of where they lived.
00:17:09.146 --> 00:17:12.946
And they're like, let's get you some help. Let's get you some resources about
00:17:12.946 --> 00:17:15.746
if you decide to come out and what this is going to be like.
00:17:16.526 --> 00:17:22.326
And it was every Monday night at like seven o'clock. And I would go over to their house for dinner.
00:17:22.786 --> 00:17:26.246
And then the story I was telling was like, go over to the house for dinner.
00:17:26.306 --> 00:17:27.206
We're going to play some games.
00:17:27.606 --> 00:17:30.126
Well, it was like, go over to of their house, hop in the car,
00:17:30.226 --> 00:17:33.206
drive an hour north, go to this meeting for an hour and a half.
00:17:33.386 --> 00:17:42.746
And I got to meet other gay people and people who were very much like me and not like me in some ways.
00:17:42.886 --> 00:17:47.366
But I got to kind of understand what their coming out stories were like.
00:17:47.526 --> 00:17:51.206
In the process of being in that group, I met someone.
00:17:51.486 --> 00:17:58.026
And I will tell you, he was the third man I ever dated. And the other two,
00:17:58.146 --> 00:17:59.166
I didn't date for that long.
00:18:06.146 --> 00:18:09.226
Enough said, enough said. We've all been there. We've all been there.
00:18:09.226 --> 00:18:11.066
We all can relate, right? Doesn't matter whether you're gay,
00:18:11.106 --> 00:18:12.986
straight, whatever. Like we all have those people.
00:18:15.246 --> 00:18:22.146
So I meet this guy and we start dating. and I realized that we have a relationship
00:18:22.146 --> 00:18:29.826
and had dated him for about a year, maybe a little over a year.
00:18:30.006 --> 00:18:34.526
I had finished my graduate work. I had started a teaching position.
00:18:35.286 --> 00:18:38.666
It was the summer after that first year. I remember the date.
00:18:38.746 --> 00:18:47.366
It was July 10th, 1997 was the day I came out to my parents. and I.
00:18:49.247 --> 00:18:59.567
Knew in my heart that this was something I needed to do because I didn't want to lie to them anymore.
00:19:00.127 --> 00:19:04.927
And I figured they would probably be upset.
00:19:05.087 --> 00:19:09.827
I figured they would probably be angry and disappointed, but I didn't think
00:19:09.827 --> 00:19:18.547
they would cut me off given the way things had gone down with my sister. Yes. Wrong.
00:19:19.787 --> 00:19:27.287
I told my folks and I remember telling them and my mom started filling in the
00:19:27.287 --> 00:19:32.967
blanks and there was a lot of upset and a lot of tears.
00:19:33.687 --> 00:19:39.667
But here's where it was so important for me, Kevin, to show up in this way,
00:19:39.747 --> 00:19:47.167
because one of the things I promised myself, and this was with the help of a really great therapist,
00:19:47.987 --> 00:19:53.847
was that I would never say or do anything that I would regret because God forbid,
00:19:53.907 --> 00:19:55.747
this was the last time I saw my parents.
00:19:56.167 --> 00:19:59.607
I wanted to make sure that I never did or said anything I regretted.
00:20:00.107 --> 00:20:05.487
And so the last words I would always say to my parents was, I love you.
00:20:06.427 --> 00:20:09.167
Didn't expect them to say it back, but it was, I love you.
00:20:09.547 --> 00:20:16.727
And as you can imagine, there were some conversations and there were conversations
00:20:16.727 --> 00:20:22.247
around, this is a phase, you can't do this, who recruited you?
00:20:22.987 --> 00:20:25.447
I had to explain to them, nobody got a toaster on my behalf.
00:20:26.227 --> 00:20:31.827
And ultimately, it came down to an intervention.
00:20:33.747 --> 00:20:41.927
And if you've ever seen movies from like the late 1990s and the 2000s about interventions,
00:20:41.927 --> 00:20:44.687
interventions it pretty much played out that kind of way it
00:20:44.687 --> 00:20:51.607
does make for a good lifetime movie in that regard but you
00:20:51.607 --> 00:20:54.887
know i was still i was partnered with this
00:20:54.887 --> 00:21:00.547
person and had no intention of of leaving him at the time you know my mom my
00:21:00.547 --> 00:21:07.047
dad my oldest sister my uncle the priest were all in the room and my mom looked
00:21:07.047 --> 00:21:09.847
at me and she says you're going to need to make a decision it's either either
00:21:09.847 --> 00:21:13.187
us or him, because I can't keep living like this anymore.
00:21:13.647 --> 00:21:17.307
And that was probably one of the hardest days of my life.
00:21:18.847 --> 00:21:25.167
Wow. Wow. That is, I don't care what the situation is.
00:21:25.967 --> 00:21:28.727
That's a horrible thing to be faced with.
00:21:29.887 --> 00:21:34.387
Yeah. Ultimatums are done for very specific reasons.
00:21:34.747 --> 00:21:38.887
And as I've learned, learned my mom did what she felt was best.
00:21:39.387 --> 00:21:46.167
I don't fault her for that. I will never fault her for that because she did what she felt was best.
00:21:47.591 --> 00:21:49.771
Here's where it gets interesting.
00:21:52.331 --> 00:21:57.551
You ready? I'm ready. I'm ready. So here's where it gets even more interesting.
00:21:57.951 --> 00:22:00.651
So I'm essentially kicked out of the family.
00:22:01.391 --> 00:22:06.471
I had conversations with all four of them. Certainly couldn't debate Catholic
00:22:06.471 --> 00:22:08.151
theology and beliefs with any
00:22:08.151 --> 00:22:12.251
of them because I knew what I was doing was against the Catholic religion.
00:22:12.251 --> 00:22:19.691
Religion, but I also knew this was important about honoring who I am and me
00:22:19.691 --> 00:22:23.451
dealing with my own faith and religion at that point as well.
00:22:23.651 --> 00:22:26.011
That differed from how I was raised.
00:22:26.631 --> 00:22:29.931
We don't talk for 22 months.
00:22:30.971 --> 00:22:35.491
Now, my mom and dad had my phone number, my email. They knew how to get ahold
00:22:35.491 --> 00:22:36.531
of me if anything happened.
00:22:36.651 --> 00:22:40.551
And one day the phone rings and I see it's my dad. He says to me,
00:22:40.651 --> 00:22:42.651
your mom's been diagnosed with breast cancer.
00:22:43.131 --> 00:22:47.111
She's going to go into the hospital for a procedure. She wants to see you before
00:22:47.111 --> 00:22:48.271
she goes in the hospital.
00:22:50.311 --> 00:22:53.831
Okay, when do you want me to come down? So I drive down.
00:22:54.051 --> 00:22:58.431
Now I say to them, I said, look, so we're clear. I'm only coming down to meet
00:22:58.431 --> 00:23:00.591
with you and mom. There's nobody else here.
00:23:01.471 --> 00:23:05.851
Don't ambush me like you did the last time. No, just be your mom and me.
00:23:05.931 --> 00:23:09.531
Okay, great. So I see my mom and, you know,
00:23:09.551 --> 00:23:16.211
for anybody I can imagine when you're faced with a cancer diagnosis and you're
00:23:16.211 --> 00:23:20.931
faced with potentially your mortality at that point, you're scared.
00:23:21.671 --> 00:23:25.231
And for my mom, this was about let's clean up some loose ends.
00:23:26.031 --> 00:23:29.011
So we talk about what's going on and everything.
00:23:29.191 --> 00:23:34.631
And my mom says to me, are you still with him?
00:23:34.631 --> 00:23:37.371
Him she would never call my
00:23:37.371 --> 00:23:40.851
partner by name are you still with him and
00:23:40.851 --> 00:23:43.491
we had broken up we separated after about three and a
00:23:43.491 --> 00:23:46.491
half years and i said no and she
00:23:46.491 --> 00:23:53.171
goes well good and i go uh-uh you don't get to do that you don't get to gloat
00:23:53.171 --> 00:23:59.411
because relationships are hard and when relationships break up they're harder
00:23:59.411 --> 00:24:03.651
and when you go through a breakup in a relationship that's important to you
00:24:03.651 --> 00:24:05.571
and your family's not there for you,
00:24:05.611 --> 00:24:08.271
but your friends are, you don't get to gloat.
00:24:08.451 --> 00:24:14.771
Now, I'm sorry you have cancer. I want you to be well. I want this to be fully
00:24:14.771 --> 00:24:15.751
resolved and everything.
00:24:16.251 --> 00:24:18.611
So you and I need to work on our relationship.
00:24:19.191 --> 00:24:22.571
And if we're going to work on this relationship and start rebuilding it,
00:24:22.651 --> 00:24:24.831
here's the first thing that needs to happen.
00:24:25.131 --> 00:24:31.511
You do not get to pass disparaging remarks about me or my friends who were there
00:24:31.511 --> 00:24:34.171
for me when you chose not to be.
00:24:36.191 --> 00:24:42.631
I said, because they were there for me when you couldn't. And she looked at me, Kevin, and she goes,
00:24:43.576 --> 00:24:47.196
Okay. Now my mom's in her seventies.
00:24:47.656 --> 00:24:54.996
I get a 70 year old staunch Catholic woman to agree with me on something like,
00:24:55.036 --> 00:24:56.796
hell yeah, I'm going to take that as a win.
00:25:02.816 --> 00:25:07.536
Right. Yes. So at that point, I'm like, okay, take, take your win.
00:25:07.676 --> 00:25:15.476
Don't, don't push for anything more. And it was my mom's breast cancer that
00:25:15.476 --> 00:25:23.956
literally started us on a path to healing and resolving over the course of those
00:25:23.956 --> 00:25:26.356
next, you know, decade plus.
00:25:27.956 --> 00:25:33.816
Wow. Wow, wow, wow. What did happen going forward?
00:25:33.856 --> 00:25:38.356
Did your relationship get back to some type of normalcy?
00:25:38.516 --> 00:25:41.536
And even I want to ask even with the rest of your family.
00:25:42.116 --> 00:25:49.596
Yeah. So once my mom had her procedure done and we had agreed that we wanted
00:25:49.596 --> 00:25:52.636
to see each other, and I think that was the important piece here, right?
00:25:52.696 --> 00:25:57.896
We wanted, it was important for both of us to know that we wanted to see each
00:25:57.896 --> 00:26:00.216
other and see if there was a way to work some things out.
00:26:00.456 --> 00:26:05.696
So what we did, Kevin, was we started setting up some ground rules for what
00:26:05.696 --> 00:26:07.336
conversations would be like.
00:26:07.596 --> 00:26:12.376
And so some of those ground rules were when you ask a question,
00:26:12.596 --> 00:26:15.696
and this was for both of us, right? So it worked both ways.
00:26:15.896 --> 00:26:21.856
When a question is asked, that question is asked out of information and curiosity,
00:26:21.976 --> 00:26:25.256
not to be damning or abusive.
00:26:25.756 --> 00:26:30.796
Because I needed to acknowledge that my parents probably had some questions
00:26:30.796 --> 00:26:35.756
to how I got to this point and were curious, but I wanted to make sure that
00:26:35.756 --> 00:26:39.656
they were asking for information and not to be mean about it, right?
00:26:39.836 --> 00:26:44.636
So that was one thing. The second thing was, if at any point in time the conversation
00:26:44.636 --> 00:26:49.996
got to be too heated or uncomfortable, anybody could simply say,
00:26:50.116 --> 00:26:51.696
let's stop the conversation.
00:26:52.096 --> 00:26:57.436
And we would agree to stop it and set up another time to come back and discuss it.
00:26:57.556 --> 00:27:02.596
And the last thing that I honored was that the last thing I'm always going to
00:27:02.596 --> 00:27:05.676
say to you is I love you and eat it. Yes. Right.
00:27:06.516 --> 00:27:15.016
So once we set those things in place, it opened up for some probably unusual
00:27:15.016 --> 00:27:18.816
or different types of conversations, you know?
00:27:18.856 --> 00:27:21.236
Like, so my mom asked me one time and she said,
00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:28.750
how did you get this way? Mom, I kind of remember when I was younger having
00:27:28.750 --> 00:27:31.370
thoughts about being attracted to guys.
00:27:31.630 --> 00:27:36.690
Yeah, but when did that start? I don't know, like six? She's like, six?
00:27:37.710 --> 00:27:42.010
I'm like, yeah, like the first time I looked at somebody on TV and was like,
00:27:42.670 --> 00:27:45.350
okay. I didn't understand what it meant, right?
00:27:45.510 --> 00:27:48.510
But like, if you're trying to like tag something, I'm like, maybe,
00:27:48.770 --> 00:27:50.350
maybe, I like, I don't know.
00:27:50.790 --> 00:27:52.710
And she's like, well, it doesn't make sense to me. I'm like,
00:27:52.770 --> 00:27:54.310
well, does it have to make sense?
00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:59.490
Like, this is just, you know, you're attracted to dad because you're attracted to the opposite sex.
00:27:59.690 --> 00:28:02.450
You know, I'm not attracted to the opposite sex.
00:28:02.870 --> 00:28:05.830
It was difficult for them to get their head around.
00:28:06.030 --> 00:28:11.570
But if you remember that day when I was 10, this bugged my mother because she
00:28:11.570 --> 00:28:14.930
looks at me one day and she says to me, I need to ask you a question.
00:28:15.350 --> 00:28:18.250
Okay, is that question for information or you're curious, yes.
00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:23.810
You're trying to be abusive or argument. No, go ahead, ask the question.
00:28:25.150 --> 00:28:30.230
Do you remember when your sister got pregnant? Uh-huh. And I sat you on my lap.
00:28:30.390 --> 00:28:33.690
Uh-huh. And I told you that if you, uh-huh.
00:28:33.990 --> 00:28:37.330
Did that make you? Absolutely, it did.
00:28:38.890 --> 00:28:44.330
My dad, Kevin goes, and I go, oh, come on, that was perfectly over the plate.
00:28:44.430 --> 00:28:46.390
How do I not hit that out of the ballpark? Come on.
00:28:48.170 --> 00:28:52.550
And then we have this moment of laughter and I look at my mom and I hold my
00:28:52.550 --> 00:28:58.370
mom's hand and I go, all joking aside, no, that did not make me gay.
00:28:59.170 --> 00:29:02.810
And she was like, okay, because I've worried about that. And I go,
00:29:02.910 --> 00:29:05.890
of course she did. Because you can't let anything go.
00:29:08.790 --> 00:29:16.950
So it was really important for me, Kevin, that I used my gift of humor to lighten up some situations,
00:29:17.130 --> 00:29:22.130
but there were times when conversations got heated and we walked away and we
00:29:22.130 --> 00:29:28.910
said I love you and we made it a point to come back down and have another conversation at the house.
00:29:29.731 --> 00:29:35.531
Things were said, hurtful things were said, but because you love and because
00:29:35.531 --> 00:29:40.771
there's an opportunity to forgive and you try to build some kind of awareness,
00:29:41.171 --> 00:29:46.011
you know, one of the things I learned as part of this was the biggest,
00:29:46.131 --> 00:29:50.211
I'm going to use the word mistake, and I know some people may challenge me on
00:29:50.211 --> 00:29:53.211
that, but it's the best word I can use in this context.
00:29:53.211 --> 00:30:01.171
The biggest mistake I feel like I made in my coming out journey was that I expected
00:30:01.171 --> 00:30:08.611
my parents to fully accept and believe in me on the spot without any struggle.
00:30:09.811 --> 00:30:15.431
And that was wrong of me to do. They had their own journey to travel when it
00:30:15.431 --> 00:30:22.031
came to accepting that their youngest and their only son was gay.
00:30:22.811 --> 00:30:28.511
And for me to expect them to just be like, okay, that's great.
00:30:28.611 --> 00:30:29.711
When do we get to meet your partner?
00:30:30.151 --> 00:30:35.691
It just wasn't gonna happen. It was an unrealistic expectation on my part.
00:30:36.011 --> 00:30:41.971
And so what I had to do was I had to learn to give them grace and give them
00:30:41.971 --> 00:30:47.451
opportunities to question without me getting upset or angry with them,
00:30:48.071 --> 00:30:54.131
but to help them along their journey so they could get to wherever they could.
00:30:54.731 --> 00:30:58.311
In the process of all of this, keep in mind it came out in 1997.
00:30:58.811 --> 00:31:06.191
My dad passed away unexpectedly in 2003, or 2004, sorry.
00:31:07.211 --> 00:31:11.471
And the last thing I ever said to him was, I love you.
00:31:12.431 --> 00:31:16.671
That is a gift. I had been healing the relationship with my parents.
00:31:17.411 --> 00:31:20.571
My uncle, no. My sister, eh.
00:31:20.971 --> 00:31:26.571
Not really, because it was so important for me to work on my relationship with my folks first.
00:31:27.911 --> 00:31:36.791
My mother loses her husband and her two brothers within 18 months. Wow.
00:31:37.411 --> 00:31:41.331
My mom was married to my dad for 55 years.
00:31:42.171 --> 00:31:47.311
And of course, when death happens, sometimes families rally. Right.
00:31:48.213 --> 00:31:53.653
And I remember looking at my sister, because the one sister who had gotten pregnant,
00:31:53.733 --> 00:31:54.813
she's out of the picture.
00:31:55.133 --> 00:31:59.193
But I looked at my sister and I said, look, whatever's going on between us,
00:31:59.253 --> 00:32:01.593
we put this aside right now. We're here for mom.
00:32:01.993 --> 00:32:04.653
Like our common goal is we take care of mom.
00:32:04.993 --> 00:32:09.613
My sister looked at me and she went, got it. And so that's where we started
00:32:09.613 --> 00:32:13.313
healing our relationship a little bit in that regard. Wow.
00:32:14.433 --> 00:32:22.853
Yeah. Wow, wow, wow. In the year since then, has the relationship between you
00:32:22.853 --> 00:32:25.993
and your sisters gotten any better or stayed the same?
00:32:26.413 --> 00:32:33.153
So there is no relationship with my younger sister.
00:32:33.493 --> 00:32:36.793
That, you know, everything kind of went down at 10.
00:32:36.953 --> 00:32:41.853
I firmly believe, just like my parents did, She did what she needed to do,
00:32:41.873 --> 00:32:46.213
which was best for her, her husband and her family. And that meant she walked away.
00:32:46.693 --> 00:32:50.893
I obviously don't know all the conversations that happened, but based on my
00:32:50.893 --> 00:32:53.773
own experiences, probably didn't go too well.
00:32:54.253 --> 00:33:02.113
And so while there's no relationship there, I certainly respect and understand
00:33:02.113 --> 00:33:04.753
the decisions my sister had to make.
00:33:04.933 --> 00:33:08.733
With my older sister that's 18 years older than me, there is a relationship
00:33:08.733 --> 00:33:13.193
there. You know, you get older and people kind of, you know,
00:33:13.193 --> 00:33:17.213
gravitate in their own ways kind of a thing, but she's still a part of my life.
00:33:17.313 --> 00:33:19.533
So, you know, that's fine as well.
00:33:19.973 --> 00:33:25.133
But, you know, I think one thing I do want to just kind of extend here a little
00:33:25.133 --> 00:33:29.813
bit, Kevin, is that one of the things I am most proud of in this life is the
00:33:29.813 --> 00:33:31.533
relationship my mom and I had.
00:33:33.273 --> 00:33:37.613
And when you think back on the story I've shared with you today,
00:33:37.713 --> 00:33:40.553
you're like, gosh, how do you get there?
00:33:41.013 --> 00:33:48.433
Six months after my dad passed, my mom looks at me and she was in her late seventies.
00:33:48.793 --> 00:33:53.273
She looks at me, we're standing in her house and she goes, I don't know how
00:33:53.273 --> 00:33:55.213
you do it. And I said, do what?
00:33:55.653 --> 00:33:58.353
And she goes, be alone. Be alone.
00:33:59.196 --> 00:34:04.576
I said, what do you mean? She said, your father has been gone for six months.
00:34:05.476 --> 00:34:08.956
Loneliness sucks. From a 78-year-old woman.
00:34:09.556 --> 00:34:14.956
Loneliness sucks. And I said, mom, I can't imagine what you're going through.
00:34:14.956 --> 00:34:21.496
He said, but you and dad loved each other for 55 years.
00:34:21.776 --> 00:34:28.176
He said, you had a relationship where you two liked and loved each other.
00:34:29.056 --> 00:34:37.036
You were best friends. I go, and I know you struggle with who I am and who I
00:34:37.036 --> 00:34:39.076
want to be in a relationship with.
00:34:39.216 --> 00:34:42.036
Why am I not entitled to the same happiness?
00:34:42.816 --> 00:34:47.436
Hmm. And she looked at me and she goes, I get it.
00:34:48.036 --> 00:34:51.896
Now for a 78 year old woman, like win number two.
00:34:52.536 --> 00:34:59.156
Like I get it, okay? So my mom lived for seven years after my dad passed.
00:34:59.956 --> 00:35:05.896
And my sister and I rallied. My sister would take care of Sunday dinners and
00:35:05.896 --> 00:35:07.316
medical appointments and things.
00:35:07.416 --> 00:35:12.416
And I would take care of the finances and vacations and stuff like that.
00:35:12.416 --> 00:35:16.796
And trips to Atlantic City where we would sit next to each other at slot machines
00:35:16.796 --> 00:35:18.676
and just have the best conversation.
00:35:19.696 --> 00:35:23.856
Because my mom loved a really good conversation. The really sweet part of this
00:35:23.856 --> 00:35:28.356
story is, Kevin, is that over 15 years ago, I met my now husband.
00:35:28.716 --> 00:35:32.736
And when I met Richard, my mom was curious.
00:35:34.396 --> 00:35:38.416
And we dated long distance for two years. I was living in New Jersey.
00:35:38.496 --> 00:35:40.396
Richard was living in Washington, D.C.
00:35:41.796 --> 00:35:44.876
And she's like, why are you spending so much time with this guy?
00:35:45.716 --> 00:35:48.716
And I was like, I like hanging out with him. You know, he's funny,
00:35:48.736 --> 00:35:52.196
smart, he's intelligent, you know, good people.
00:35:52.496 --> 00:35:57.516
And we had been dating for about four months. And my mother says to me, when do I get to meet him?
00:35:58.516 --> 00:36:03.196
You could have knocked me over with a feather. Like, not.
00:36:04.229 --> 00:36:09.049
You want to meet him? Yeah, I want to meet him. He's important to you. I want to meet him. Okay.
00:36:10.229 --> 00:36:18.269
So we met on her turf. And her turf was the Borgata Casino in Atlantic City.
00:36:21.569 --> 00:36:25.089
That's where my mother said to me, she goes, when I die, are you going to come
00:36:25.089 --> 00:36:27.789
to the cemetery and visit? I said, no, I don't like cemeteries,
00:36:27.789 --> 00:36:29.389
but I'll come to the Borgata three times a year.
00:36:34.229 --> 00:36:39.989
I love it. So, right. So, so we meet and, and so I'm like, I'm prepping Richard
00:36:39.989 --> 00:36:41.889
the whole time. I'm like, oh, kid gloves.
00:36:42.069 --> 00:36:44.209
You know, I don't know where my mom's going to be with all this. Right.
00:36:44.449 --> 00:36:47.009
She meets him. She's like, let's go play some machines. Right.
00:36:47.089 --> 00:36:49.349
She's teaching him how to play these slot machines and stuff.
00:36:49.629 --> 00:36:53.929
We had a nearly three hour dinner.
00:36:54.449 --> 00:37:00.349
She was asking him about his work and his growing up and what he did and everything. thing.
00:37:00.849 --> 00:37:06.049
And we were getting ready to leave and he had gone to the restroom and I'm standing
00:37:06.049 --> 00:37:08.429
there with my mom and she looks at me.
00:37:08.829 --> 00:37:12.869
I'll never forget this. She goes, he's very nice.
00:37:13.209 --> 00:37:18.949
I have a feeling you two will be good friends for a very long time. I got my mom's blessing.
00:37:20.089 --> 00:37:27.149
In that moment, I got my mom's blessing as a, you know,
00:37:27.209 --> 00:37:34.849
80-year-old woman who lived this life and struggled with her challenges and
00:37:34.849 --> 00:37:39.369
her life and her beliefs and the upset and the tumult that she's had in her life.
00:37:39.729 --> 00:37:44.949
For her to look at me and say, I have a feeling you two are going to be really
00:37:44.949 --> 00:37:47.209
good friends for a very long time.
00:37:48.049 --> 00:37:54.069
I felt like everything came full circle. How do you ask for more?
00:37:55.596 --> 00:38:02.416
And so Richard got included in family gatherings because Richard lost both of
00:38:02.416 --> 00:38:05.276
his parents very, very young due to cancer.
00:38:06.196 --> 00:38:11.456
And so he found himself at like his mid-30s having lost both of his parents.
00:38:12.156 --> 00:38:18.976
And so Richard got a sense of like, he got a motherly figure in his life who
00:38:18.976 --> 00:38:24.476
recognized and celebrated him for his role in my life.
00:38:25.596 --> 00:38:30.976
You know, we could never talk like my mom would sometimes get on the habit of
00:38:30.976 --> 00:38:37.036
like trying to figure out mechanics, you know, it's not a conversation you want
00:38:37.036 --> 00:38:38.456
to have with your parents, right?
00:38:38.616 --> 00:38:41.536
I don't want to know about your sex life. Don't ask me about mine.
00:38:42.496 --> 00:38:45.796
Exactly. So that's where the ground rules came into play. I was like,
00:38:45.816 --> 00:38:47.416
mom, we're not going to talk about that.
00:38:47.956 --> 00:38:53.076
Yes. But it was Thanksgiving dinners and Christmas dinners and birthdays and
00:38:53.076 --> 00:38:56.436
Mother's Day and and things like that, where he was there.
00:38:57.296 --> 00:39:02.676
My mom, it'll be, let's see, 13 years this July that she passed.
00:39:03.796 --> 00:39:09.656
And even though he didn't get a lot of time with her, at the same time,
00:39:09.676 --> 00:39:15.256
he recognized how special and important that was, as did I.
00:39:15.956 --> 00:39:23.056
And I will always, always, always be forever grateful and love him even more
00:39:23.056 --> 00:39:26.056
for the fact he was so kind to my mom in that way.
00:39:26.736 --> 00:39:33.116
Yeah. You know what two words keep coming to me when I'm hearing this story
00:39:33.116 --> 00:39:38.116
between you and your mother are mutual love and respect.
00:39:38.736 --> 00:39:47.236
Yeah. And I think to myself, because both of you adopted mutual love and respect together,
00:39:47.863 --> 00:39:55.583
That was what made it possible for you to create this relationship together.
00:39:55.963 --> 00:40:03.883
That when you tell that story, I mean, that is absolutely just the biggest tearjerker
00:40:03.883 --> 00:40:06.503
in the world because of how beautiful it is.
00:40:07.343 --> 00:40:12.463
Yeah. Wow, wow, wow. Wow. Yeah. It's a great way of phrasing it that way,
00:40:12.523 --> 00:40:18.223
because we could not have shown up for each other if it hadn't been for that
00:40:18.223 --> 00:40:19.423
mutual love and respect,
00:40:19.523 --> 00:40:23.323
because there were tough conversations to be had.
00:40:23.523 --> 00:40:29.803
There were struggles around lifelong beliefs and religious principles and tenets
00:40:29.803 --> 00:40:36.343
and, you know, combating stereotypes and fear. Let's talk about fear.
00:40:36.743 --> 00:40:40.903
You know, I come out in 1997 to them.
00:40:41.443 --> 00:40:46.263
AIDS was still very much part of the conversation.
00:40:46.943 --> 00:40:49.283
And, you know, my mom's like, you're going to die.
00:40:50.023 --> 00:40:52.183
We're all going to die, you know?
00:40:52.183 --> 00:40:54.943
And she's like, no, no, you're going to die of AIDS. God, I hope not.
00:40:55.243 --> 00:41:00.923
You know, but it was that kind of fear and everything there that you think about
00:41:00.923 --> 00:41:06.383
having these intentional conversations that move relationships forward.
00:41:07.203 --> 00:41:13.323
That was always the goal. How do we move this relationship forward based on this conversation?
00:41:13.783 --> 00:41:18.203
Moving the conversation forward doesn't always mean that you're hugging it out
00:41:18.203 --> 00:41:23.023
and it's rosy and cheery and everything's great and wraps up in a 22-minute sitcom.
00:41:23.383 --> 00:41:29.363
What it means is that you've made some kind of progress to a clear decision.
00:41:30.663 --> 00:41:34.103
And I will always be grateful for the fact that my parents...
00:41:35.017 --> 00:41:40.277
Honored that process, even as difficult as it was for them. Yeah, absolutely.
00:41:40.717 --> 00:41:49.117
You've talked a lot about showing up and you have kind of a foundation for showing up.
00:41:49.217 --> 00:41:52.297
I believe you have it broken down by six different principles.
00:41:52.577 --> 00:41:55.217
Will you dive into that for us?
00:41:55.517 --> 00:42:01.957
Yeah. So because this coming out journey and building the relationships with
00:42:01.957 --> 00:42:05.157
my my folks was so important.
00:42:06.057 --> 00:42:09.917
I would have been remissed had I not taken the lessons learned from those experiences
00:42:09.917 --> 00:42:12.897
and figured out where else they applied in my life.
00:42:13.977 --> 00:42:18.917
And so when I talk about showing up, I do break it down into six strategies,
00:42:19.037 --> 00:42:23.457
and they are the S stands for setting ground rules.
00:42:23.937 --> 00:42:27.877
The H stands for having intentional conversations.
00:42:29.037 --> 00:42:34.437
The O stands for owning where you are. The W, welcome new opportunities.
00:42:35.257 --> 00:42:37.597
The U, use your genius.
00:42:38.557 --> 00:42:43.437
The P stands for protect and promote your brand. And in my book,
00:42:43.457 --> 00:42:46.997
Show Up, Six Strategies to Lead a More Energetic and Impactful Career,
00:42:47.877 --> 00:42:51.997
I tell the story of my coming out in the first part of the book.
00:42:52.157 --> 00:42:57.477
But in the second part of the book, I take these six strategies and I walk them
00:42:57.477 --> 00:43:03.577
through where they've applied in this coming out journey, but also how they've applied in my career.
00:43:04.597 --> 00:43:09.317
So you don't have to do the show up strategies in order. And when I work with
00:43:09.317 --> 00:43:12.337
people on that, we typically start with the O and the W.
00:43:12.837 --> 00:43:19.897
So the O, owning where you are. For me, yeah, I had to own the fact that I recognize
00:43:19.897 --> 00:43:22.337
and understand that I'm a gay male.
00:43:23.125 --> 00:43:30.885
And that meant owning a big part of my life that I kept hidden for a very, very long time.
00:43:31.585 --> 00:43:36.545
The W in terms of welcoming new opportunities, what that meant along the way
00:43:36.545 --> 00:43:40.585
was, who do I get to meet? What do I get to learn?
00:43:41.125 --> 00:43:46.325
Where do I get to learn from somebody else's coming out journey or experience
00:43:46.325 --> 00:43:51.965
or circumstance or situation that has helped them grow to where they are.
00:43:52.485 --> 00:43:56.385
The setting ground rules, we've talked about that before. Setting ground rules
00:43:56.385 --> 00:43:58.125
simply means that we know how to play.
00:43:58.285 --> 00:44:01.805
And when we know how to play, we don't have to walk on eggshells.
00:44:01.805 --> 00:44:05.725
When I set those ground rules with my folks about any conversations we were
00:44:05.725 --> 00:44:09.785
going to have, I could call them out and be like, that's getting abusive.
00:44:10.605 --> 00:44:15.325
And they would redirect, or they would call me out on something and be like, that's getting nasty.
00:44:15.665 --> 00:44:21.585
You're right. Let's redirect. Having intentional conversations move the relationship forward.
00:44:22.085 --> 00:44:27.565
But the U and the P are two interesting ones because using your genius.
00:44:27.945 --> 00:44:34.705
So I shared a little bit earlier that I used my gift of humor to help in those situations.
00:44:35.205 --> 00:44:43.265
So for me, if I could get people to laugh, especially if I could get my parents
00:44:43.265 --> 00:44:45.385
to laugh, things felt lighter.
00:44:45.765 --> 00:44:49.985
So might it be a little self-deprecating at times? Sure.
00:44:50.325 --> 00:44:57.065
But when we can bring humor and appropriate humor into a situation, it can make it lighter.
00:44:57.345 --> 00:45:00.485
And then the P about protecting and promoting your brand.
00:45:00.745 --> 00:45:06.385
Kevin, there were things that people said to me, particularly my uncle,
00:45:06.525 --> 00:45:15.065
my sister, my parents, that were attacks on my brand and my reputation.
00:45:15.945 --> 00:45:22.045
That I had to stand up for myself and call out and say, that's incorrect,
00:45:22.385 --> 00:45:26.305
you're wrong, and I'm not gonna allow you to talk to me that way.
00:45:26.505 --> 00:45:32.905
So when you think about these six strategies, what if we took them and we applied
00:45:32.905 --> 00:45:37.905
them to our careers or we applied them to any relationship that we have?
00:45:37.905 --> 00:45:43.245
When I work with people as an executive and career coach, we talk about these
00:45:43.245 --> 00:45:45.885
show of six strategies in very different capacities.
00:45:46.345 --> 00:45:51.585
And so how do you set ground rules for your meetings with your team and your direct reports?
00:45:52.065 --> 00:45:56.785
How do you have intentional conversations with your leadership about a particular
00:45:56.785 --> 00:46:00.545
workflow or about where your career is progressing?
00:46:02.015 --> 00:46:06.755
How do you use your genius and leverage that to make your project better,
00:46:06.855 --> 00:46:11.655
your organization better, your leadership better, your career better?
00:46:12.195 --> 00:46:18.135
How do you protect and promote your brand and your reputation internally as well as externally?
00:46:18.655 --> 00:46:22.475
Because Jeff Bezos has one of the best quotes about branding I've ever heard,
00:46:22.535 --> 00:46:25.775
which is your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room.
00:46:26.615 --> 00:46:31.055
And then of course, owning where you are and welcoming those new opportunities.
00:46:31.055 --> 00:46:37.595
And so I wrote the book, Show Up, because I kept hearing people say to me at
00:46:37.595 --> 00:46:39.475
work, I need to show up differently.
00:46:39.755 --> 00:46:45.775
What does that mean? And so the Show Up Six strategies provide a benchmark or
00:46:45.775 --> 00:46:47.435
a foundation, if you will,
00:46:47.615 --> 00:46:52.075
about when we talk about showing up, tap into one or more of those strategies
00:46:52.075 --> 00:46:58.815
and be clear about how you choose to show up in your life and career. Yeah.
00:46:59.375 --> 00:47:02.455
Wow. I love it so much.
00:47:02.775 --> 00:47:09.335
The story that you shared with your mother, and really, we could say your entire
00:47:09.335 --> 00:47:15.855
life story, how has that impacted the person you are today, both personally,
00:47:16.075 --> 00:47:17.515
professionally, and what you do?
00:47:17.695 --> 00:47:20.515
How do you feel like that has impacted you?
00:47:20.715 --> 00:47:29.535
There's certainly a part about strength and resiliency that rings very, very true for me.
00:47:29.655 --> 00:47:33.495
You know, everybody has something in life that they work through.
00:47:34.450 --> 00:47:40.230
Or they face. And I had a neighbor growing up who said to me that everybody's
00:47:40.230 --> 00:47:42.170
problems were like pairs of shoes.
00:47:42.430 --> 00:47:46.170
And if everybody in the world threw their shoes into a corner and you could
00:47:46.170 --> 00:47:49.790
pick whichever pair of shoes you wanted, you would always go back and pick your
00:47:49.790 --> 00:47:51.350
own because they're the most comfortable.
00:47:52.710 --> 00:47:59.230
Right? And so for me, I recognize that my coming out wasn't easy.
00:47:59.230 --> 00:48:01.950
Coming out isn't easy for anybody.
00:48:02.810 --> 00:48:09.710
And yes, we sit in 2024 here and things are certainly different than what they
00:48:09.710 --> 00:48:17.290
were in 1997 and 1977 and all, but nevertheless, there's still a lot of work to be done.
00:48:17.290 --> 00:48:20.750
But when we have those conversations, we're vulnerable.
00:48:21.590 --> 00:48:27.530
And if we're met with grace and kindness, we can be met with disagreement on
00:48:27.530 --> 00:48:29.170
a lot of things in life. That's okay.
00:48:29.890 --> 00:48:34.630
But it's about showing up to those conversations with grace that allow you to
00:48:34.630 --> 00:48:37.490
see where the conversation takes you.
00:48:37.610 --> 00:48:43.570
Because I've had those conversations in my life, I very rarely shy away from
00:48:43.570 --> 00:48:46.430
a difficult conversation. You can ask my husband.
00:48:51.430 --> 00:48:55.010
Because he knows he knows i'll be the one to kind of bring something up first
00:48:55.010 --> 00:48:58.430
or whatever or if if something else is happening i'll be like do you want me
00:48:58.430 --> 00:49:00.450
to take care of it he's like dear god no.
00:49:01.990 --> 00:49:05.810
Don't need you to take care of that right there's a reason why we go to buy
00:49:05.810 --> 00:49:12.410
cars i go alone on you know the last time he came with me but yeah it's it's that kind of thing where
00:49:12.610 --> 00:49:17.770
I don't shy away from conversations because I know that once you have them,
00:49:17.950 --> 00:49:20.110
there's a whole lot better on the other side.
00:49:20.630 --> 00:49:28.210
Yeah, I love it. Before I ask you my last question, tell everybody where they
00:49:28.210 --> 00:49:32.070
can find your book, where they can get plugged into your world,
00:49:32.230 --> 00:49:34.250
where's the best places for us to send them.
00:49:34.330 --> 00:49:38.830
And of course, everything you mentioned, I'll be sure is in the show notes for easy access.
00:49:39.270 --> 00:49:43.410
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for that. So you can find my books on Amazon.
00:49:43.730 --> 00:49:47.930
So Show Up, Six Strategies to Lead a More Energetic and Impactful Career.
00:49:48.310 --> 00:49:53.870
It's at definitely a discounted price right now on Amazon. So feel free to go grab that.
00:49:54.070 --> 00:49:59.390
My other book is called Your Mid-Career GPS, Four Steps to Figuring Out What's Next.
00:49:59.890 --> 00:50:05.710
And there is an updated part to the Show Up, Six Strategies in the back of that book.
00:50:05.890 --> 00:50:12.750
People can find me on LinkedIn at John Nerrell. It's J-O-H-N-N-E-R-A-L.
00:50:12.990 --> 00:50:18.150
You can also find me on my website at johnnerrell.com. And I host a podcast
00:50:18.150 --> 00:50:23.850
called the Mid-Career GPS Podcast, which Kevin, I was honored to have you on the show as well.
00:50:23.990 --> 00:50:27.670
And you can find the Mid-Career GPS Podcast wherever you listen.
00:50:28.563 --> 00:50:35.003
Yeah, fantastic, fantastic. Highly encourage any of you to get plugged into this guy's world.
00:50:35.103 --> 00:50:37.943
As you can tell, the guy is just incredible.
00:50:38.303 --> 00:50:43.323
You are incredible, John. And so, man, definitely check out the show notes and
00:50:43.323 --> 00:50:45.743
get plugged into everything you just mentioned.
00:50:45.983 --> 00:50:52.043
My last question for you is I would love for you to talk to the person who's been listening today.
00:50:52.043 --> 00:50:59.583
And maybe they are in the position you were back in your 20s,
00:50:59.583 --> 00:51:01.583
discovering about themselves,
00:51:02.163 --> 00:51:06.543
trying to understand what it means, trying to understand how the rest of the
00:51:06.543 --> 00:51:12.963
world is going to feel when they let out that secret. What would you say to that person?
00:51:13.343 --> 00:51:18.863
Build your network. Build your support system. There are people out there who
00:51:18.863 --> 00:51:24.763
love you and care about you and see you, and it's important to pull them close.
00:51:25.043 --> 00:51:31.103
Whatever it is that you believe you need to talk about or you need to share,
00:51:31.403 --> 00:51:38.423
you've got to build your support network because they're going to be there for you when you need them.
00:51:38.423 --> 00:51:45.923
And I am extremely grateful for the people who have been, were,
00:51:46.143 --> 00:51:51.083
and continue to be part of my support system because they mean the world to
00:51:51.083 --> 00:51:53.023
me. They are everything to me.
00:51:53.943 --> 00:51:59.723
And when you have that, there is strength, there is grit, there is grace,
00:51:59.943 --> 00:52:07.703
there is inspiration to help you have that conversation when you are ready.
00:52:08.423 --> 00:52:14.383
And that's the key thing. It is when you are ready that your network is there
00:52:14.383 --> 00:52:18.323
for you whenever you need them. Yeah, I love it. I love it.
00:52:18.563 --> 00:52:23.463
John, I want to thank you not just for being on the podcast today,
00:52:23.543 --> 00:52:30.283
but I want to thank you for being so honest, so real. And at the same time...
00:52:31.300 --> 00:52:41.380
Your ability to take a really tough subject and with your gift of humor,
00:52:41.520 --> 00:52:48.480
of having us laugh right along with you while at the same time tearing up when you teared up.
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:54.420
It means the world to me to have you on the podcast and for you to feel so open,
00:52:54.460 --> 00:52:58.740
to be so honest, all with the goal that there's somebody listening today,
00:52:58.980 --> 00:53:04.780
you know, that they take something that you said and can put it in play in their own life.
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:08.960
And so, so truly in the most heartfelt way, thank you so much.
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:12.500
Well, thank you, Kevin. That means the world to me.
00:53:12.620 --> 00:53:18.340
And I receive that with an open heart. And, you know, you create a space in
00:53:18.340 --> 00:53:24.140
this world for people to come and share their story in part because of your
00:53:24.140 --> 00:53:26.600
story and what you've gone through as well.
00:53:26.860 --> 00:53:32.400
I am honored and so grateful to add to this conversation to you and for everyone
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:36.960
who has listened today just to be a part of it. Thank you for all the work you do. You're amazing.
00:53:37.260 --> 00:53:42.260
Oh, thank you so much. But for you listening today, my hope,
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:47.660
my prayer is that something said today, it's an impact on you,
00:53:47.780 --> 00:53:49.980
that it made a light bulb go off.
00:53:50.120 --> 00:53:56.140
Or maybe you can't help but think of a friend who you know that they could benefit
00:53:56.140 --> 00:53:58.040
from hearing our conversation today.
00:53:58.200 --> 00:54:02.120
Be sure to share it with them. That's how we keep the love of this podcast alive.
00:54:02.540 --> 00:54:06.700
So my friend, get out there, take on the day, enjoy the day.
00:54:06.700 --> 00:54:10.140
This is Kevin Lowe with Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.
00:54:10.640 --> 00:54:28.886
Music.
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