Show Transcript

0:00:01 - (Kevin Lowe): If you were to look at life like a game of poker, you would be safe to say that James Purdue was dealt a bad hand. But like any good gambler knows, you have two choices. You can either fold or you can play the game. Well. James Purdue, he chose to play the game. As you listen to his story today, you're going to be conflicted with your emotions, because quite possibly you're going to feel sorry for what he's been through, for what he's had to endure.

0:00:33 - (Kevin Lowe): But at the same time, when you hear the smile in his voice, when you laugh at his jokes, you're going to feel like, oh, my gosh, I can't feel sorry for this guy because this guy is living life. He's making the most out of the hand he was dealt, my friend. This is episode 254, and this is the story of James Purdue. What's up, my friend? And welcome to grit, grace, and inspiration. I am your host, Kevin Lowe. 20 years ago, I awoke from a life saving surgery, only to find that I was left completely blind. And since that day, I've learned a lot about life, a lot about living, and a lot about myself.

0:01:20 - (Kevin Lowe): And here on this podcast, I want to share those insights with you. Because, friend, if you are still searching for your purpose, still trying to understand why, or still left searching for that next right path to take, will consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from where you are to where you want to be. Do you ever feel like there's got to be more to life than this? Yeah, maybe on the outside your life looks good, but in reality, you are so unfulfilled with life, you keep thinking that there has got to be something more that you're meant to be doing more, but you don't know what that is or how to even make it happen.

0:02:02 - (Kevin Lowe): Well, imagine if it was different. Imagine if you got to wake up on Monday morning full of enthusiasm, so excited for the day, because you are finally living in alignment with your life's purpose. Well, friend, it's possible. And that is why I created discover your purpose. My signature one on one coaching session where we can dive deep into your life purpose. If you are finally ready to make this the year that you start living out your truest potential, well, it's time that you discover your life's purpose.

0:02:40 - (Kevin Lowe): To learn more, text the word discover to 5544. Again, just text the word discover to 55 four. And with that, I hope you enjoy today's episode.

0:03:00 - (James Perdue): Well, my mom, she divorced before my first birthday. I call him just the sperm donor. Since I've never heard from him. He never sent a birthday card, nothing like that, even when he was dying. On his deathbed, my mom sent word that she would bring his boys up air to meet him before he passed away if he wanted to. And he never even sent word on his deathbed. They don't want to see his boy, so I just consider him as my sperm donor. That put me where I'm at today.

0:03:30 - (James Perdue): And my mom remarried, and the stepfather is the guy that I considered my father. He would love me when I desperately needed it and he would bust my butt when I desperately needed it and to keep me in line because I was one of them that kind of got into mischief a little bit. I was one of them that believed that I was invincible. I could do a lot of things and I will overcome it and move forward in life.

0:03:57 - (James Perdue): So he was the one that loved me and disciplined me when I needed it and put me where I'm at. And then he ended up dying when I was 16, about ten or eleven years after marrying my mom. And so my mom, she raised three boys, and I guess she did pretty good at it.

0:04:12 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah, I love it. Now, when he passed away, when you were just 16, how did that impact your life?

0:04:20 - (James Perdue): Tell you what, about a year and a half, two years earlier, he had open heart surgery. And at that time they said, like, one side of his heart was like 90% blockage and other side was like 100% blockage. So they had to go in and do this triple bypass at that time, and he come home, never got to go back to work again. And so for the next year and a half, not that he was sick in bed all the time, he'd get up and go do things, did a little work around the house, but he was told not to over exert because how much blockage was there.

0:04:53 - (James Perdue): But he did the best he could. But finally he went to the hospital, and I remember the doctor calling and told my mom that there was nothing more they can do for him, that he was retaining fluid on his body and lungs and said that he could have a year, he could have a month, he could have a week, said, we just don't know. There's nothing more we can do. So she goes to the hospital to pick him up, to bring him home, and while they're waiting on the paperwork, the lunch lady came in for lunch at the hospital and he told him, said, no, I'm not going to eat lunch here. I'll wait till I get home and eat lunch with my boys.

0:05:30 - (James Perdue): But I'll drink some as tea. And so he reached to grab the tea, and what he did dropped dead right there in front of my mother.

0:05:39 - (Kevin Lowe): Oh, my gosh.

0:05:41 - (James Perdue): Of course. I was 16 years old. Got older brother 17. He's a year older than me, and then younger brother at that time, he'd be about eight or nine, something like that. And we all had to grow up fast. So we can help mom with everything. Tell you what, we get in the story one day we need to get in here, and we can do a second program, but we need to talk about how my mom is like a modern day job with all the stuff she's had to go through.

0:06:08 - (James Perdue): Yeah, she's definitely the strongest. And I hope everybody can say that they have a mother, stepmother, somebody that raised them as a female. I hope they can say that's the strongest woman I've ever met. And I could definitely say they were my mom.

0:06:23 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah, absolutely. I know that is the case with my family as well. My mom and my grandmothers.

0:06:30 - (James Perdue): Yes, mom, grandmother. Yeah, we know.

0:06:33 - (Kevin Lowe): Us men, we would be nowhere without the women in our life.

0:06:36 - (James Perdue): I tell you what, it's a shame. Hey, I just saw some statistics the other night, research and everything, that when men get sick, they truly do get sicker than women. So when it used to be the woman's going, oh, I still got to cook supper and got to go do it wherever. I got a code, and you're doing nothing. And then the men are laying in bed with their code, not doing anything. And some research actually come out and said that men actually do get sicker than women and stuff like that. So now they take that woman.

0:07:09 - (Kevin Lowe): That is so funny. So that point in your life, back to your childhood when you said that your stepdad had passed away and you and your brothers really kind of had to become the men of the house and stuff. At what point, though, did sports enter your life? Because I know baseball is a big part of your story.

0:07:30 - (James Perdue): Big part, yeah. Actually, I was playing sports started at ten years old with baseball, and I actually made a team. My brother, again, was a year older than me, but he wasn't quite athletic. He didn't make a team, but I did. And about a week before the season started, then they cut me. I'm going, what? Ten years old? I didn't know. They can cut you anytime they want to. And so they cut me. So the following year, my brother and me had to try out again, and we both made the team, this time a different team.

0:08:03 - (James Perdue): And so I got to play two years in little league, my eleven and twelve year old league and one of my greatest stories. And let me go back to my father for a second. He always said, I'll be a great storyteller. He said, because you lie so much around here, son, you're going to be a great storyteller one day. He used to call me Jesse James because I got in so much mischief. Yes, okay. But here's one of my better stories, is one day we're getting ready to play the number one team in the league. Number one, they hadn't lost a game, 13, and this is last game of the season.

0:08:39 - (James Perdue): They beat the crap out of us first time we played them, but I got to pitch a couple of innings. And the best player in the league, Tony Goodall. Hey, Tony Goodall, my budy, if you ever get to hear this, talking about you again. And so old Tony, he led with most home runs in the league, the highest batting average in the league. He was the best pitcher in the league, undefeated and everything. But I got to pitch an inning or two because we're getting beat so bad now.

0:09:03 - (James Perdue): Not that at that time I was the hardest thrower, which I wasn't. I probably threw it so slow and that team was so anxious rated head. I probably threw them off a little bit. But I struck old Tony out and I was one of the first person to strike him out. And I'm, yeah, felt good about myself. So the last game of the year, we're playing them. They're 13 and we're six and seven, I think six and seven. So we're playing them.

0:09:29 - (James Perdue): And so they decided I was going to pitch the game and I'm going, yeah, well, it rained half today and so the coach is calling, going, hey, rest up for the arm. But right now they're saying we're still going to play. I said, okay. Then he goes, well, I think they're going to cancel it. Then he calls it, no, they said, it's still on. And so I'm resting, waiting for the game. But come to find out, our league was the only league in that city that played all the softball teams canceled the other cross town little league, they canceled theirs. So everybody in Galatin is there watching me pitch against the number one team in the thing, including the team that cut me two years up again, I didn't throw hard at that age, so I'm sure I threw slow enough. And they're over swinging and everything, but we end up beating them four to nothing.

0:10:22 - (James Perdue): And I pitched a no hitter against the number one team and the team that cut me again was going, we should have kept him. We should have kept him. And I got to strike Tony out again. So I was the only person struck him out twice again. I know it's because I probably threw it so slow, and he's up there thinking, home run, throw, home run. Boom. But I got strike him out twice.

0:10:47 - (Kevin Lowe): Wow, that is one heck of a story. I love it. I love it. Now, did you continue being a pitcher all through your career in baseball?

0:10:58 - (James Perdue): Yeah, this little league team, but I didn't pitch any my first year as eleven year old, but as a twelve year old, they wanted people to try out for pitching, so I tried out and I was left handed. And so when a left hander throws, they got that little natural screwball, so they end up giving me the opportunity. And so from the rest of my career, I pitched or played first base or outfield. Yeah. And so I was one of them growing up, wanted to be a professional athlete, because when my dad died, we weren't what you were called poor, but we were knocking on the door poor.

0:11:35 - (James Perdue): At 16, when he passed away, my mom, if the roof leaked from rain, I'm the one had to get up on the roof and find it and patch it the best we could because she couldn't afford a roofer. And here in Tennessee, weather gets kind of nippy a little bit. So if under our house, the pipes froze, and I'm doing it, 14 degrees is underneath there, trying to find where the pipe is froze to get it thawed out. So we have water for the winter and auto mechanics, everything. She just couldn't afford it, so I had to learn to do all that. Growing up, my older brother, he wasn't mechanically inclined, so I had to do it. And younger brother, he's too young to do all that. And so I wanted to be this professional athlete. That way I can buy mom this new house, not have to worry about all that going on, buy her a new car and get my brother's new cars. And I even told people back when I was growing up, they used to have a magazine that you could order and you can get a mail ordered bride.

0:12:35 - (James Perdue): And so I was going to get a mail order groomed for my mother. Was my plan. That was my plan was to get this professional deal to help the family.

0:12:50 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's say real quick, before we continue, how much that said about you at a young age, that that was your dream, not all yourself, to buy yourself a big house and fancy cars only, but literally that you wanted to take care of your family.

0:13:11 - (James Perdue): Oh, yeah. I mean, even give my grandmother something. I've told people so I don't know what I got her because grandparents, they seem to have everything, but I'm sure I would have got her something.

0:13:21 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. I love it. So we talked about you being like, 1112 playing baseball. I assume that you continued then playing baseball all the way up through high school.

0:13:30 - (James Perdue): High school, I was our most valuable player my junior and senior year. And even today, I'm the only person that's won the MVP two years.

0:13:42 - (Kevin Lowe): Oh, wow.

0:13:42 - (James Perdue): Use it as a one and done and use it to seniors to get it. But again, the funny thing is, when I got in my junior year, the guy before me was a senior, but his junior year, he got the MVP and he came back as a senior, and so I beat him out. And then, of course, I got it my senior year.

0:14:02 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. Oh, wow. That's pretty darn cool.

0:14:05 - (James Perdue): So, yeah, I'm the only one of that. And of course, I ended getting a scholarship to go to college, and I was one of them that I had a strong 2.0 gpa to go to college. Now when I say strong 2.0, I mean, yeah, I just barely got that 2.0. I was one of them that the teachers always said, james, you're smarter and issue, you ought to be put more into it. And I'm going, no, you don't need to do all this when you're playing baseball.

0:14:32 - (James Perdue): And so, mom and dad, you're smarter than this. You need to do, but you don't need to do all this when you're in baseball. So I never did put forth what I should have, and then I'm one of them nowadays. I wished I would have so I would be better prepared when I got injured and went to play baseball, I mean, to college, because then I had to learn to study all over again because of what I didn't really learned in my high school and middle school years, of course.

0:15:04 - (Kevin Lowe): You know what, man? Something always comes to bite us in the butt later in life.

0:15:10 - (James Perdue): Sometimes it doesn't have to be a big bite, but, yeah, it comes back and let you know that things could have been a little different.

0:15:19 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah, absolutely. So talk to me about leaving town, going away to college. Your college. Was it far away from home?

0:15:30 - (James Perdue): Yeah, it was about 2 hours. Okay, 2 hours, two and a half, something like. It wasn't real far, but it was far enough. I couldn't come home, get mom's home, cooking every night. So I ended up going to what was called back then, martin methodist, it was a two year college, and now they're a four year school. But martin Methodist then. And so I was in college for a whole two weeks before I had my injury.

0:15:57 - (James Perdue): When I went to college, I went for three reasons. One, to get drafted so I can go to pros, so I can do my thing. And number two was to meet all the women I can meet. And number three, to party. And it didn't matter what order it was, it depended on what time of day it was. If it was noon to five, well, then my priority was baseball. But if it was seven to midnight, then it was meeting girls and partying. So depending on time of the day was my priority at that time.

0:16:28 - (James Perdue): And so I was in school for two full weeks, and I got to play one college game. And, I mean, I don't hate telling the story, but I don't want to sound like I'm bragging, but again, I was the only freshman starting. He had all his players from the year before coming back, and so I got to play as the one freshman, the only freshman starting, and had a pretty good game. After the game, I remember my mom saying, hey, come on home, because we played in Nashville, so we were 40 minutes from home. Then she says, come on home tonight. I'll cook you a dinner and stuff, spend a night, and I'll drive you back down to college the next day. And I said, mom, there is no way.

0:17:09 - (James Perdue): I said, today was a good day. This is the first step towards our goal to be this professional athlete. And I said, mom, nothing can stop us. And then in looking back, hindsight, when I said, nothing has stopped me, that's kind of like that dude on the Titanic, the captain, the guy. And he says, even God himself can't sink this ship. And I tell people, watch how you say can't stop you and stuff. Then I said, but God didn't need to stop the Titanic. He didn't need to stop the ship. The iceberg did it for him.

0:17:44 - (Kevin Lowe): Yes.

0:17:45 - (James Perdue): So the very next day, a bunch of people on campus, I say a bunch, were playing a football game, pickup game. No pads, no helmets, nothing like that. But we were playing tackle, okay? We'd been out there probably 2 hours, and my team got the ball back. And I said, hey, I'm done playing for today. We've been out for about 2 hours. I said, I need to get my stuff ready for class. And then, hindsight looking back, I'm going get ready for class.

0:18:12 - (James Perdue): You ain't taking anything for class. You were just showing up just so you. But I said, I need to get things ready for class. So I left the huddle. I got maybe 10ft away. And then I heard someone say, we need someone to run the ball. I stop and turn around. Now, Kevin, a little shameless plug here. I said, I'll come back for one more play. Which hint? Shameless plug is the name of my first book. One more play.

0:18:36 - (James Perdue): And it talks about how growing up, like we're talking today, my little memoir. And so they hand the ball off to me. I broke through the line, broke a couple of tackles, scored a touchdown, and I was turning towards everyone, plays over with, right? So scored a touchdown, plays over. So I'm putting the ball down, turning towards everyone and on the right side of me, and something in my peripheral vision, I see something. I have no idea what it is. I just see something.

0:19:03 - (James Perdue): And then I hear. I feel contact up high by shoulder area. And then I hear a loud pop and both of us go to the ground. Now I'm thinking my collarbone broke because he hit me up high on my right side. Again, I was left handed, and the guy's all. I tackled him, attacking him, and said, yeah. After the play was over with, I said, man, I'm going to get up and kick your butt right now. So I didn't use the word butt.

0:19:27 - (James Perdue): I figured, again, because I grew up thinking I was invincible, I'll beat this guy with one hand, my left hand. I'm left handing it. My left side didn't get hurt. It was my collarbone broke on my right side. And so I got up and, well, I tried to get up, and when I lift my head, nothing followed. My shoulders didn't come up, my arms didn't come up, my legs didn't come up. And so I put my head back down, and then the guy that tagged me says, well, does your touchdown count?

0:19:53 - (James Perdue): I said, man, when I really get up now, I said, asking the dumb question, like if it still counts, and tried again to get up again. Nothing followed. And then I did. The old people say three is a charm. So I put my head down, took a deep breath, tried to get up a third time. Nothing followed. And then I knew instantly I was paralyzed.

0:20:13 - (Kevin Lowe): Wow, how fast everything can change.

0:20:19 - (James Perdue): Yeah, you hear people say in the blink of an eye, well, in the blink of an eye, in the break of a neck, because the pop end up hearing was, he broke my neck.

0:20:28 - (Kevin Lowe): Okay.

0:20:29 - (James Perdue): And that made the spinal cord injury. And so, yeah, that's how I got paralyzed.

0:20:35 - (Kevin Lowe): Wow, what happened? Do you remember at that moment I mean, did everybody start coming over and.

0:20:44 - (James Perdue): Kind of chaos pursue, remember staring at the sky and the trees where the wind is blowing the leaves up top? Because I knew they're going to have to get an ambulance. And you always hear, don't move. You'll make things worse if I couldn't move anyway. So we didn't have to worry about that part. But there was one guy there, and I don't know what they called it back in 1983, but he was trying to be a paramedic, EMT, whatever they called him back then.

0:21:14 - (James Perdue): And all of a sudden he's taking control of everything. He told someone, run to his room, get his pen and paper out, bring a blanket, bring the stethoscope, bring his blood pressure cup. And he's out there before the ambulance, even getting there. And then he's telling them my blood pressure and temperature and he's telling me to be calm, don't over. He gave him a bunch of information to give to them before they got there. So I would love to meet him again, but I didn't get his name or anything, but I would love to meet that guy to thank him for that. I'm just laying there. I wasn't knocked unconscious, had pain in my neck, but it wasn't pain.

0:21:52 - (James Perdue): I mean, it wasn't pain that made you cry, but it was pain. And so they ended up taking me to, of course, to the local hospital. Part of my story there is one of my reasons I went to school was to meet these girls. And so I met this one girl a couple of days before all this took place, and she was going to school to be a nurse. And so I'm at the hospital, I'm out in the hallway, they've done x rays and stuff.

0:22:18 - (James Perdue): And this girl, she comes by and she looked at me and says, hey, James, how you doing? I forgot her name now. And I said, oh, yeah, I'm not doing too good. Said, I'm paralyzed. She says what? I said, yeah, my neck's broke. And she huh. And then she looks at the chart and. Yep. So one of the reasons I went to meet the girls and here she was working at the hospital there.

0:22:40 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah.

0:22:40 - (James Perdue): And so she ended know staying to talk with me a little bit because then from the local hospital, they transferred me back at the Nashville to St. Thomas hospital.

0:22:50 - (Kevin Lowe): Okay. Wow. Now, during this mean, are you thinking to yourself that this is temporary or did you know this is serious?

0:23:02 - (James Perdue): Well, I knew it was serious because again, I couldn't get up and move at all. So I knew it was serious. But again, I had this invincibility that when they told me, because I remember asking the doctor in Nashville, I said, how bad is it? And he said, bad enough you'll never walk again, possibly not move anything from your neck down. I said, that's pretty damn bad, isn't it? And he said, yeah. But again, I had this invincibility.

0:23:26 - (James Perdue): I thought, oh, yeah, right. I'll show you all. I'll be walking now. Figure my baseball career was over with, but I thought, I'll be walking. And. Yes. So that invincibility kept kicking in to do more and try more from there.

0:23:41 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. Wow. So what ended up being your long lasting injury? Did you ever regain movement from the neck down?

0:23:51 - (James Perdue): I had my injury on everybody else's, what they call 911, September 11. So my 911 was in 1983, where the country was 2001. So I own that before they do. All right.

0:24:04 - (Kevin Lowe): Yes.

0:24:05 - (James Perdue): Now, not that I'm bragging that anybody's 911 is worse than anyone else or not as bad. I'm not saying, I'm not comparing, but that was September 11. I heard on Halloween I first moved a muscle on my leg. And so I had a nurse come in and feel, I said, moving this muscle in my leg. I said, I can tell you what I'm doing. I said, here, I'm going to tighten this muscle up, and I'll tighten it up. And I said, now I'm relaxing it. Tighten it up. Relaxing. And she confirmed that I was moving them. Yeah. And so I was in the hospital for St. Thomas for like three months.

0:24:39 - (James Perdue): The same day I was released, they sent me to Birmingham to a rehab that's geared more for spinal cord injuries. And I thought, well, if they're specialties and I'm already moving my legs, because then I was really moving them, but they're so weak, I couldn't stand on them or anything. So I started thinking, oh, shoot, if they're specialists, I'll be walking before I get out of there. And their job. I didn't understand it then because I was young and dumb.

0:25:04 - (James Perdue): We didn't get along as well because I thought we were going to be working on my legs. They were trying to teach me how to dress and in bed and eat and be a quadriplegic and use the chair all the time. And so we didn't quite get along.

0:25:19 - (Kevin Lowe): Yes.

0:25:20 - (James Perdue): Years later, I understand what they're doing is because rarely do a spinal cord injury get up and walk again. They may get these movements and things, but to walk efficiently without struggling, it's easier for the wheelchair and learn to do, but I didn't understand that then. But to get to where I'm at, when I got home from there, this home health physical therapy came and he really did take interest in with my legs and help me get strong. He even brought in his own homemade parallel bars to put in my living room.

0:25:56 - (James Perdue): And we got where I needed help standing. But once I was standing and these parallel bars, like eight or 9ft, I don't think they were quite 10ft. So I was able to, after plenty of practice, able to make a trip down, turn around and come back. And I think I was able to do it two or three times with parallel bars. My mom and brothers would have to help me stand up. So then had a friend down the road, his grandmother, and I said, let's go down and see if I could borrow his grandmother's walker, see if I can do anything.

0:26:29 - (James Perdue): It took me half a day because I've forgotten how to stand up.

0:26:35 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah.

0:26:36 - (James Perdue): When you stand up, you lean forward to get your center of gravity over your knees and to help stand. Here I am trying to stand up straight as a board. And I'd make my older brother sit down. So I'd watch him then say, stand up. Then I'm watching. Sit down. Do it again. All right, stand up. And so I finally figured out how to stand up on my own. And so eventually we got where I was able to stand up on my own walk with a walker about 100ft. And that was it.

0:27:06 - (Kevin Lowe): Wow.

0:27:07 - (James Perdue): About 100ft. So that's when I tell people, say, you know what? A doctor said, I'll never walk again. I made a liar out of him for 10 minutes. It's only 23 hours and 50 minutes. He was correct. But that was good for me to be able to stand and stretch and let blood circulate. And I'm a big boy, so it's easier for me to stand, to transfer than to do the other way, just to sliding and everything. And so it was great that I had developed that, even though it wasn't fully functional walking.

0:27:40 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. Now, approximately how long was that after your accident?

0:27:46 - (James Perdue): I was doing that. It was about a year.

0:27:49 - (Kevin Lowe): Okay.

0:27:51 - (James Perdue): We would have again. Home health therapist came in, Dr. Udot. I remember him. He was probably 150 then, but he's one that took interest and really helped us. So whenever people come visit, I would make them do exercise with me. That way I can exercise and they could see what we're doing. And we have these arm weights and do these arm exercises. We pretty much started our own therapy program from there.

0:28:23 - (James Perdue): Yeah, it took about a year for me to do that consistently.

0:28:28 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. Now at some point in time, you would end up getting out of the house and going back to college, correct?

0:28:39 - (James Perdue): Yeah, I figured that it was wheelchair and I was able to stand and do and everything again. Of course, I've never met anybody with spinal cord injury. I remember going to school and there was one kid that was in power chair and he had muscular dystrophy. And I remember talking with him while we were in school some, but I never met any other real spinal cord injury except for JT. Let me go back to JT real quick. When I'm laying on the ground trying to get up after the football hit, after the third time, I started thinking of JT.

0:29:14 - (James Perdue): JT, this fella that, my grandfather, when I was 12, 13, 14 years old, we used to go visit him in a nursing home. And one day I went to go visit my grandfather. And about two rooms before we got to my grandfather's, I heard this one guy go, hey, buddy, come here for a minute. And so I go into the room and I met JT. Well, come to find out, JT, he was in his mid thirty s and he'd had a car accident that broke his neck and he was totally paralyzed from the neck down.

0:29:43 - (James Perdue): He asked me to help if I'd hold a cup with a straw in it, water, so he can get something to drink. So when I'm laying on the thing, I'm thinking, oh, great, I'm going to be in a nurse home the rest of my life. Like JT, at the age of 19 was my first thought coming towards all this, when I realized I was paralyzed. But later on we did our own physical therapy, Dr. Oda and everything like that. And so I decided when things were going good that if I was going to have any life, I need to go back to college and really get my.

0:30:14 - (James Perdue): I'm going. You know, I didn't study that much growing up. And when I first went to college, it was just to get out of the house, get away from mom, get away from my brothers, get away from them, meet new people, talk to new people, different. A, I'd maintain my c average. Okay, maintain the c average. So then I end up quitting a couple of years. And again I'm thinking, if you're going to do anything, you got to get something. So there's a vocational training in Tennessee, and I'm sure all the states have a vocational training, and this here is bookkeeping. So I went and took their bookkeeping course and passed and everything. Got certified as a bookkeeper. But then I was going, I don't want to sit there and do all that.

0:31:00 - (James Perdue): But it was good for me that I was able to. I made all a's but one b, and it was good for me to go, well, if you can do this there, you can go past college. You can do better than you do on a c's. And so when I went back to college, this time was more serious, to really graduate and about, I don't know, a couple of months beforehand, I was actually working at a travel agency, and one of the people came in, was one of the professors at the local college is a two year school.

0:31:33 - (James Perdue): And she came in, and we got to talking, and her name was Dr. Aminette. Now, she was Miss Aminette then. Wasn't a doctor at that time. I said, yeah, I thought about going back to college at Vault State. I said, but I don't want to go do all that paperwork and stuff and try to figure out what's going on. And she says, what? I said, yeah, thought about it, but I just don't want to get caught up with all that paperwork.

0:31:59 - (James Perdue): And then she says, she knew my name and everything. She said, what's your Social Security number? I gave it to her. She comes back the very next day, and she had my schedule made up for the next three semesters from the spring. I never took a summer class, but if I did these in the summer class and then I do these in the fall, she says, you can graduate any year. She went and figured out all that for me, and I was going, man, if she did all that for me, I got to at least try.

0:32:31 - (James Pe