Show Transcript

Merry Christmas! Welcome to Grit, Grace, & Inspiration.

[0:01] What's up, my friend? Merry Christmas. This is your host, Kevin Lowe, and welcome to Grit, Grace, & Inspiration.

Today's episode is airing the morning after Christmas.

It is December 26th. And friend, I hope you had an amazing, amazing day.

Hopefully you got to eat some Christmas cookies, got to open some gifts, give some gifts, and just got to enjoy the day.

Today, I pulled another episode out of the archive because, well, it could not be more fitting for this time of year.

This is an interview with a guy who knows all about Coca-Cola and more importantly, the impact Coca-Cola has had on Christmas as you and me know it.

My friend, enjoy today's episode, Soak up some of that Christmas love, and hey, I will see you next year.

2024 is when I will return. Enjoy the week. Enjoy today's episode.

[1:12] What's up, my friend? And welcome to Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

I am your host, Kevin Lowe.

20 years ago, I awoke from a life-saving surgery only to find that I was left completely blind.

And since that day, I've learned a lot about life. a lot about living, and a lot about myself.

And here on this podcast, I wanna share those insights with you.

Because friend, if you are still searching for your purpose, still trying to understand why, or still left searching for that next right path to take,

we'll consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from where you are to where you want to be.

Introduction and guilty pleasure of Coca-Cola

[1:54] Larry, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Kevin. This is going to be a lot of fun. Been looking forward to this opportunity.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Larry, what brings us together is probably my most guilty pleasure of all, and that's nothing quite like a Coca-Cola.

And you have written a book called The Coca-Cola Trail, and well, that was kind of all I needed to be like, oh my gosh, I've got to learn more.

Any guy who, who I assume you must love Coca-Cola for you to devote all this time and going into writing a book, I'm like, wow, I've got to have them on

the podcast.

So I would love to, I guess, start out by, by asking just a general overview of what, what is the Coca-Cola trail and then kind of we'll dive into to where,

you know, the idea for this book came from and all of that.

Well, the Coca-Cola trail, Kevin, is not about Coca-Cola in Atlanta, Georgia, which is corporate.

The Coca-Cola trail is about people and places, underlying places, in the history of Coca-Cola.

In other words, it's all these places all over the United States where Coca-Cola, in one way or another, happened because of entrepreneurs.

[3:20] Young people who thought, hey, we might be will make some money bottling this new drink called Coca-Cola.

And so what we've done with the book is we've located places where that happened that are still there.

Now, it might be an old bottling plant that now has become a small shopping mall or a brew pub or who knows what, but we found these places.

And it's places where it's a travel guide.

It's places you can go, you can see these places that have Coca-Cola history, and we tell you in the book why it has Coca-Cola history.

What happened there? You know, the very first chapter, we talk about a place in Vicksburg, Mississippi, where Coca-Cola was first bottled.

Vicksburg, Mississippi: Where Coca-Cola was first bottled

[4:11] It wasn't first bottled in Atlanta. It was first bottled at a little soy shop, candy shop in Vicksburg, Mississippi, by a particular gentleman who

owned the shop who was buying Coca-Cola syrup.

[4:27] That's how Coca-Cola was sold those days. It was the syrup, you had a soda fountain, you put it in a glass, you added the charged water, and you

had a Coca-Cola drink.

So that's what we've gone back, and like in Vicksburg, you can go there.

You can see the soda shop, the candy shop, where it was first bottled, and you can see the equipment that it was used, old hand, foot-powered equipment

that bottled the first bottle of Coca-Cola.

And that's the purpose of the book. Where can I go look, see, touch, feel, and what is it all about?

Well, that's awesome. That's awesome. So now, what inspired you to do this in the first place? Peace.

[5:13] Well, I'm a freelance writer, amongst other things, and I've been doing some travel features.

And I learned about the Coca-Cola shop in Vicksburg.

And then I also learned that not too far away, about 60, 70 miles in Monroe, Louisiana, there was a privately owned Coca-Cola museum that, in fact, was

paying tribute to that person that bottled that first bottle of Coca-Cola.

And I thought, well, that's interesting.

Here's two pieces of Coca-Cola history within driving distance of each other.

It would make a wonderful travel feature.

So I set out to do a travel feature, not a book, just a feature for travel magazines.

[5:59] Went to Vicksburg, looked at that place, got the history on it, took some pictures. Then I went to Monroe, Louisiana.

And the same thing, there's a nice Coca-Cola museum there. They do presentations and they have all kinds of old Coca-Cola memorabilia and a big old Coca-Cola

truck and so forth.

So I went and I thought, yeah, this is great, I'm going to do this travel story.

The small businessmen who shaped the Coca-Cola empire

[6:24] Well, as it turned out, at the second museum, I ran into people who were family of the first bottler of Coca-Cola, and started learning that in

fact, The story I'm after is all over the United States.

There were many, many places where Coca-Cola was first bottled and how those places became an important part of Coca-Cola.

So I, with a little encouragement from this particular family, their name is Biedenharn, I set out to find some other places.

And I realized this is not a travel feature, This is a book, and it's an amazing story of how really the small Coca-Cola entrepreneurs created were very

instrumental in creating what I call the Coca-Cola empire.

It was, you know, these people invested time, money, a lot of experimentation.

[7:23] A lot of marketing to promote the Coca-Cola product.

And that's how it all took off. And that's what we've tried to explain in the book.

And that's why I got into it is because I found it was absolutely fascinating.

I always thought, gee, Coca-Cola was started by some smart guy and, you know, in Atlanta, and they bottled it and live happily ever after.

Well, not the case. It was a lot of small businessmen.

I mean, as many as 1500 bottlers at one time were bottling Coca-Cola around the United States. Wow, wow, wow, wow. That's so cool.

So now, I'm curious, though, we talk about like Vicksburg and all these other cities that were bottling it, taking the syrup and mixing it with the seltzer

water and stuff, but who do you know who actually created the recipe?

[8:16] Well, yeah, that was John Pemberton in 1853. Now, Mr.

John Pemberton had been in the Civil War and had sustained a very bad war injury, which he took with him all his life, and he suffered from great pain.

So he decided he was a pharmacist, and he was going to find something to cure that pain. And so he came up somehow, realized that a mixture of the kola

nut and the coca leaf would help create a medicine, as it were, that would help relieve this pain.

So he created this syrup using the coca leaf and the kola nut, and he created the syrup.

Asa Candler and the distribution of Coca-Cola syrup

[9:00] And it was strictly, as they say, for medicinal purposes.

He was in Columbus, Georgia when he created that particular syrup.

He later moved to Atlanta, Georgia.

So we have a situation here where both Columbus, Georgia and Atlanta, Georgia claim to be the birthplace of Coca-Cola.

I've talked with one of the retired archivists from Coca-Cola, and he says, no, he said John invented it, he formulated it in Columbus, and he took it

with him to Georgia.

And then that's where it really got into Atlanta, Georgia.

And that's where it really got into production.

And he took it to the local drugstore.

[9:45] And again, because that's where you went to get pain relief was a drugstore.

And from there, it took off. But you know, he only lived a few years after that.

And ultimately, the Coca-Cola syrup, he sold that, the formula to Asa Candler.

And Asa then and his nephew proceeded to go around the nation selling Coca-Cola syrup, in the gallon containers to pharmacists to sell, to make the drink

in their pharmacy.

Again, it was a carbonated, charged fountain drink. It was not a bottled drink.

So Mr. Candler and his nephew set off to sell Coca-Cola syrup.

Well, that, you know, we have the gentleman in Vicksburg who said, wait a minute, this is going over so well as a counter drink.

If I can get it bottled, if I can bottle it, I can get it out to the people in the country.

Now, we're talking about 1896, you know, and people in the country coming to town, that was a pretty good challenge.

[10:57] So Mr. Biedenharn, Mr. Joe Biedenharn purchased some used bottling equipment and started bottling Coca-Cola.

He actually bottled it for five years before Coca-Cola finally authorized the bottling.

He bottled his first two cases, and see, he was also a distributor for the syrup.

Not only was he using it in his drug store and his candy store, but he was selling the syrup in bottles, big gallon bottles to other pharmacists and so

forth around the area.

So once he started bottling it, You know, he sent his first two cases that he bottled off to Atlanta, Georgia, to Mr.

Candler just to let him know what he was doing.

[11:46] And Candler sent him a note back and said, well, it's okay. But he wasn't very impressed with it.

And Mr. Biedenhein, who sent the bottles, was a little unhappy because he said Mr.

Candler never sent his bottles back.

In those days, that was a challenge. So anyhow, we've got, here's Vicksburg, Mississippi, they're bottling Coca-Cola for five years.

Vicksburg, Mississippi and Valdosta, Georgia: Early bottlers of Coca-Cola

[12:13] No one else is bottling it. When I say no one, I have to put a little proviso on there.

There was a pharmacist in Georgia, Valdosta, Georgia, who three years later also got the idea and he started bottling too.

So there were really two places that were bottling it until Coca-Cola gave permission And we want to use that term for a debatable.

Now, that's an interesting story because as it worked out.

There were two enterprising young attorneys from Chattanooga.

[12:49] And, you know, they thought, gee, this Coca-Cola thing is pretty good.

I wonder if we could get the rights to bottle it.

So they go off to Atlanta, and they talk to Mr.

Candler, who obviously owns a syrup, and they say, we want to bottle Coca-Cola.

We'd like to get the rights from you, sir, to bottle Coca-Cola all over the United States.

Well, he said, this is crazy.

Bottle Coca-Cola? Well, I'm afraid it would lose its pace.

In fact, he called it, he said, bottling is kind of a backstreet business, you know? He was not impressed with that idea.

[13:30] There were lawyers, and as lawyers are, they have the wisdom of words, and they kept after Mr.

Candler, and he finally said, all right, I'll tell you what, you guys go back to the motel, hotel in those days, and draw up a contract and bring it in

tomorrow, I'll take a look at it.

So they did that, they went back to Mr. Candler the next day with their contract, which gave them the United States exclusive rights to bottle Coca-Cola

in the United States, except Mississippi, because that's where Joe was already doing it.

And Candler just finally gave in. He said, all right, I'm going to sell you the rights.

And he did for $1. For $1, he sold the rights to bottle Coca-Cola exclusively throughout the United States.

Selling Territories and Collecting Commissions

[14:27] And the rumor, the report is that he never even bothered to collect the dollar.

And he told the two enterprising attorneys from Chattanooga, if this doesn't work out, don't you come crying back to me about it, okay?

[14:43] So, he goes back to Chattanooga, right? They got the rights to bottle Coca-Cola, the exclusive rights throughout the United States.

Well, they go back to Chattanooga and, you know, it's like, you know, Kevin, you've heard the story about the dog chasing the car.

What do you do when you catch it?

You know, well, here they are. They're they're back in front of the wall.

Between the two of them, they've got fifteen hundred dollars.

So they start a little bottling plant.

And they're like, this is not we can't bottle Coca-Cola for the United States with our fifteen hundred dollar bottling plant.

And then the light goes on. Wait a minute, we've got the rights.

Let's start, I think today we call that franchising. Let's start selling territory.

[15:33] So if you want a bottle of Coca-Cola in Paducah, Kentucky, we're gonna sell you a 50-mile radius.

That'll be your territory up there in Paducah, and you can bottle Coca-Cola.

Now, we're going to sell you the territory, but you must use the Coca-Cola syrup.

We want to make sure it's the same product." Well, there was another reason for that, too, because every time that bottler in Paducah would buy a gallon

of Coca-Cola syrup, the two entrepreneuring attorneys in Chattanooga who sold him the territory would also get a commission on the future sales of syrup

to that bottler.

So it went on, you know, they made money even when the guy was bottling.

Every time he bought syrup, they got a commission on it.

So needless to say, they did rather well. Not only did they sell the territory, but they kind of kept a piece of the action as well.

[16:39] Oh, yes. Oh, my gosh, that's so interesting. Well, it was it's really how Coca-Cola got started in the United States and you've got all these people

that have invested time and money and energy, you know, into this.

They're going to go out and sell your product for you.

[16:58] Pretty neat, pretty neat. Absolutely. You know, what I think is really cool about this, and you're kind of like what you said earlier, is the true,

like, entrepreneurial spirit that's behind Coke.

That truly, it's because of this entrepreneurial spirit of people, you know, literally all over the country, that is what made it rise to fame.

Well, and let's face it, the people at Coca-Cola, all of a sudden got smart, too.

And that's why today you will see the Coca-Cola logo on everything.

I mean, the Coca-Cola collectors, it's amazing.

The memorabilia and the way that brand shows up on signs, on billboards, on trays, on you name it, you know, that Coca-Cola logo is without a doubt the

most collected, recognized logo company product in the world. There's no doubt about it.

You know, you and I are talking, Kevin, you know, you're in Florida and I'm up here in Louisiana. But, you know, I did an interview with a radio station

in Dubai.

[18:12] I said, Dubai? He said, Oh, yeah.

He said, Absolutely. We love Coca-Cola here.

And so We talked for a half hour to a bar in Dubai about Coca-Cola. It's all over the place.

But it started right here, right in our backyard, by people who really thought it was worth chasing.

You know, at one time, Canada realized the value of the promotion.

And if you notice, there's Coca-Cola signs to this day all over the place.

[18:43] And they were probably one of the first companies to really jump on the idea of outdoor signs.

Candler once, when he was visiting in Hollywood and was talking to some movie producers, he told them, he said, you know, the day will come when you won't

be able to film a movie outside without there being a Coca-Cola sign in the background.

Well, it almost happened, didn't it? But it's amazing that brand is so recognized and it's so treasured.

People will spend money, you know, to collect the logo.

[19:21] Cities will spend money to restore and preserve Coca-Cola murals.

I mean, it's just, it's got that certain memory to it. You know, it's a happy thing in our life.

You know, how many children who are now adults, When they were young, children would stand in front of the big window at the Coca-Cola plant in their town

and watch the bottles get full.

Well, that was done for a reason. Those plants all had those big windows and that was to show the world, this is how we bottle Coca-Cola.

And chances are, if you were standing there as a youngster or maybe your class was touring the plant or whatever, chances are, while you were watching,

you were going to get a free Coca Cola as well.

It was, they've just created.

Much good memories with that brand that that's why people collect it, because it's good memories.

You know, in towns, the murals represent a good time in that town, and they want to preserve it. It's part of the town.

[20:28] Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, I think one of the things that I wanted to ask you about that I think is infamous with Coca-Cola is the bottle,

the shape of the bottle, you know, whether it's the classic glass bottle, or even the plastic bottle.

It has that shape, and I know there's a story behind that, which actually kind of hits close to where I live.

And so, I would love for you to share a little bit what you learned about the shape of the bottle.

Establishing the Iconic Shape of the Coca-Cola Bottle

[20:57] Well, it's very interesting, because back in the early 1900s, all of a sudden, we've got people bottling and becoming very successful bottling

Coca-Cola.

Well, guess what? we get a lot of knockoffs. It happens in every business.

All of a sudden, you've got Coca-Cola, but it's spelled with a K.

You know, K-Coca, K-Cola. You know, you've got Chiro-Cola.

You've got how many different cola drinks all of a sudden are being bottled, and they're all trying to imitate Coca-Cola?

Well, there was no standard bottle, so it was easy to create a knockoff.

If you could be a cola drink, put it in a glass bottle, and call it cola.

People will think, hmm, must be Coca-Cola.

So Coca-Cola said, wait a minute, we have got to establish an identity that's us.

They went to the manufacturers of bottles, the six bottle companies that were making bottles in the United States, and they said, we are going to select

one bottle that'll be the Coca-Cola bottle.

And they had a competition amongst the bottling companies, the companies that made bottles.

[22:08] And they said, we're going to select one of you.

Well, in 1905, six companies responded.

They all brought sample prototype bottles, five bottles, to a bottler convention, and it was to be voted on which one would become the official Coca-Cola

bottle.

As it turned out, The winning bottle was made by the Root Bottling Company in Terre Haute, Indiana.

[22:40] And they got the rights to bottle, and the other five bottlers did not succeed in getting the rights to make the bottle.

Now an interesting little sidebar on that, each of the bottling companies had brought five bottles, prototypes you could call them, to this meeting.

After the root bottle was selected, the order was that all the bottles should be destroyed except one that would go into the archives of Coca-Cola, one

of the root bottles.

So all the bottles were destroyed and one went into the archives.

But you know what? There was another one that didn't get destroyed.

Another one of the root bottles somehow escaped and went to a very wise collector in California, and that family had that bottle for probably generations.

Two years ago, that bottle came up at an estate auction. Now we know it was that bottle.

The reason being on the bottom of the bottle is the date 1905.

[23:50] That was the date of the competition. Coca-Cola never started using the bottle until 1906.

So there could only be the prototype bottles that were dated 1905.

Well, this surviving bottle came up for auction and was sold for over $150,000.

The Roots and the Beginnings of Coca-Cola

[24:12] It's a lot different when, Kevin, when you and I used to pick them up and take them back for two cents, you know.

So that's interesting how the bottle got started.

And of course, the Root family just became very famous in Coca-Cola, not only in having the rights to create the bottle.

And if you go to Terre Haute, Indiana, the town is just so proud of that.

You'll see Coca-Cola memorabilia all over the town.

They have a special day when they observe the, quote, birth of the bottle and so forth.

But then the family, the Root family, also realized that the people they were making bottles for were also making a pretty good living selling the bottle

with the beverage in it, with the Coca-Cola.

And they became also Coca-Cola bottlers and ultimately sold the glass plant and continued on with the bottling Coca-Cola, buying Coca-Cola plants throughout

the United States and in some foreign countries and became one of the largest privately owned Coca-Cola bottlers in the country and, actually maintained

their headquarters in Terre Haute for quite a while until there was a fire at one of the homes, Chapman Root Sr., his home caught fire.

[25:38] And, you know, they're up there in the cooler climate of Indiana.

And Mr. Root decided, all right, that's it, we're gonna rebuild, but we're going to Florida.

And they rebuilt right in your backyard.

And the Root family today has strong, strong ties in Daytona and, of course, Ormond Beach, where their corporate is.

But if you go to the museum in Daytona Beach, there is a whole wing there about the Root family and their adventures in Coca-Cola, and also their adventures

in auto racing.

In Indianapolis 500, they were very successful for many years.

So it's an interesting visit to that museum in Daytona Beach.

And if you haven't gone, it's certainly worth the time.

And you learn a lot about Coca Cola and the wonderful family that created the original Coca Cola bottle.

The Root Family's Move to Florida and Their Legacy

[26:40] So fascinating. So fascinating. And again, I sit there and I think to myself, what's so neat about this story is the fact that, you know, it wasn't

just one person who did it.

And it is the person who, you know, oh, they are the creator of Coca.

They did it all and they did the bottom.

But you have all these different groups of people all over the United States, really, who contributed to what Coke is. I just think it's fascinating.

It is indeed. It's truly an American success story, no doubt about it.

You know, one other little sidebar on that bottle.

You remember the original bottle and for years that Coca-Cola a bottle had a light green tint to it, and there's a reason why.

When the Root Glass Company in Terre Haute was making bottles, they were getting their sand from a quarry they owned about 50 miles away, ironically in

a town called Greencastle, which has nothing to do with why the bottle was green.

The Origin of the Green Tinted Coca-Cola Bottle

[27:49] The particular sand that came out of that quarry that the Root Glass Company owned had certain chemicals, copper being one of the major ones, or

minerals I should say, in it.

And so when the glass was made, it maintained that slight green flavor, flavor, green tint.

And what happened is Coca-Cola liked that when they saw that, they liked that. And they said, that's another thing that'll make our bottle distinctive.

So later on, as other glass companies were licensed to make that same bottle, Coca-Cola told them, if your sand does not have the minerals to create the

light green color, you better add them because that is what a Coca-Cola bottle is.

It has a light green tint to it. And it was simply because that's what was in the sand when it was created.

And then, like I say, Coca-Cola loved it. They called it Georgia green.

[28:55] That's so cool. That's so cool. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. So neat.

[29:02] So, I'm curious, during this whole journey that you kind of went on, discovering all about Coca-Cola, was there any one thing that, you know, maybe

stood out to you above the rest that you found particularly intriguing or that you were just really shocked to learn?

Oh, there's so many things I learned on this trip down the Coca-Cola trail.

Well, it's interesting, I guess, the diversity is probably the most interesting thing.

The people that got involved, many of them, most of them had no experience in bottling.

Some of them may have had experience in bottling, you know, in those days, I mean, bottling itself was not new.

You had your orange drinks and your sarsaparilla and all that.

So some of them did have experience in bottling, but so many of them didn't have an idea about bottling. They learned it.

And believe me, those two went back to Chattanooga when they set up their first bottling plant.

There was a lot of broken glass and too much pressure, you know, too much carbonation.

They said that the workers in the plant would wear screen mesh over their face because many times the bottles would break.

So I think the one thing that stands out is, in fact, the variety of people that became attracted to this opportunity, and then how Coca-Cola encouraged

it.

[30:31] You know, it was, these people are supporting our product, we're going to support them.

And Coca-Cola would, I mean, look at the, in the communities where Coca-Cola plants existed. There was so much done in those communities by Coca-Cola.

I sound like a Coca-Cola salesman, but this is what I found.

Coca-Cola's Influence on Christmas Traditions

[30:56] Coca-Cola really got involved in people's communities, in their needs. What do you need?

I mean, we're talking about Christmas coming up.

Coca-Cola, basically, I always say Coca-Cola kidnapped Santa Claus, because the Santa Claus that we recognize, the Santa image that is so common in our

world right now, was in fact created by the artist at Coca-Cola in the 1920s.

That image was created, I say kidnapped, you know, by Coca-Cola.

And you may recall, I think it was two or three Christmases ago, the post office issued a series of four stamps that each had a Coca-Cola Santa on them.

Well, each of those Coca-Cola Santas was in fact one of them that had been created by by the artist at Coca-Cola, the corporate artist.

[32:00] So, you know, Coca-Cola, when you talk about Christmas, Coca-Cola is one of the warm memories of Christmas.

Look at the commercials, look at the spots on television. How about Charlie Brown?

[32:13] You know, the Charlie Brown Christmas was saved by Coca-Cola.

No one wanted to sponsor it. They thought it was a dumb idea, Charlie Brown Christmas, a wiggly old Christmas tree.

Coca-Cola said it's a wonderful idea.

And they put up the money to make it possible for there to be what we know this Christmas, Coca-Cola's Charlie Brown Christmas.

And it's just they truly embrace things that people loved.

You know, the Coca-Cola polar bears, you see the polar bears almost as often as you see Santa.

And And what about coming to a town near you, the Coca-Cola trucks?

Yes. All of a sudden, that's become a biggie. You know, the big trucks will be all decorated and they'll roll into town. And that was all created.

The first Coca-Cola Christmas truck.

Was not even a truck. It was simply an ad agency's idea, and they created it virtually.

[33:17] And it was such a big hit that Coca-Cola said, we need to do this.

We need to have Coca-Cola trucks.

And you'll see them. You've probably already seen them. They're all over the place.

And they bring to town Coca-Cola memories, Coca-Cola samples, and just goodwill at Christmas time, you can't beat that.

That's good. Again, it's good PR, and it shows the warmth that people have for that company.

[33:48] Absolutely, no, I totally agree with you. And you are so right, the fact of Coca-Cola.

It is just, when you think of Christmas, you can't help but think of Coca-Cola.

You just, you can't. And there's so many things, really, and, you know, as I'm thinking of it, that you think of are, you know, basically synonymous with

Coca-Cola.

And that's fascinating. Now, I did want to ask you, curious, did the recipe for Coca-Cola change at all through the years?

[34:23] The question I usually get, so we might as well confront it, is, was there cocaine in Coca-Cola?

And that became almost an urban legend that that was why everybody liked it, because it had cocaine in it. No, it didn't.

[34:42] When the syrup was developed, as we talked earlier, it had the Kola nut and it had the coca leaf was used.

But the coca leaf was not processed like they do when they make cocaine, you know.

But, unfortunately, there was a slight, and I mean slight, a minuscule cocaine-related type could be detected in the original Coca-Cola.

Not enough that it would have made any difference, but it certainly supported, uh-huh, there's cocaine in Coca-Cola.

So did the recipe change? Yeah. Mr.

Candler spent thousands and thousands of dollars back in the 20s because he was tired of hearing that Coca-Cola has got cocaine in it.

He hired chemists and pharmacists and who knows what all to guarantee no one could ever find anything that resembled cocaine in the Coca-Cola beverage.

It was never there to start with, but because the coca leaf was used in the development of the syrup, obviously there was a crossover that was because

it was the same product.

It was a coca leaf, but it wasn't processed like cocaine.

[36:03] So yes, that changed.

Of course, the other change, and then the big one we could talk about, remember the new Coca-Cola.

Coca-Cola came out with the new Coca-Cola, and that was the result.

You talk about a marketing challenge in those days.

[36:22] Pepsi was doing, you may remember the Pepsi challenge, and people would have two un-melted glasses of cola beverage, and they would be asked to

sample.

And they would sample. And many times, the winning beverage was Pepsi Cola.

And it was driving Coca Cola people crazy. What's going on?

Well, they found that in in looking at it closely, Pepsi and to this day, Pepsi is a sweeter product.

So if you're offered two drinks, and you get just a sip of each one, chances are you're going to pick the sweeter one.

But when you go for longevity, you're going to drink a can, the sweeter one is usually not your choice.

But Coca-Cola was so misled by this marketing ploy of Pepsi that they were winning the Pepsi challenge, as it were, that Coca-Cola created a new formula.

They came out with the new Coca-Cola, and it was sweeter, and people did not like it.

I've run into stories about little old ladies in the shopping center, you know, the grocery store who would see the Coca-Cola delivery man and threaten

him, you know, bring my Coca-Cola back.

[37:45] But it took two years.

For a pilot to get through to Coca-Cola, people don't like the new Coca-Cola.

They don't like it. They want their old Coca-Cola back.

And finally, the new Coca-Cola, as it were, became a thing of the past.

Every once in a while, recently, I think Coca-Cola did a sort of memorabilia run of it, and they made some for fun, basically.

But it's not, you can't walk into the grocery store and find the new Coca-Cola.

They learned probably one of the most expensive lessons in marketing.

You can only imagine the money they must have spent, not only developing that new Coca-Cola, but in promoting it, you know, getting people to try it, and

then finding out that the people didn't like what they tried.

So what a lesson, what a lesson. Absolutely.

And I just sit here and I think to myself like, oh my gosh, like Coke, what were you thinking?

Because me, we are family, we are a Coca-Cola family.

And and it's the running joke when you go to a restaurant and and you say the waitress asked what we have to drink, you say Coke, she says, Is Pepsi okay?

And we say, no, I'll have I'll have water.

The Love for Coca-Cola and Pepsi's Inferiority

[39:06] No, no, no, Pepsi is not okay. We want a Coke.

Well, you know, I don't know about over in Florida, but I know around here, if somebody wants a soft drink, they say, I want to call, you know, they don't,

you know, and it doesn't make any difference.

You know, it's a call that that place might not even sell it, you know, but that's what they're asking for.

Coke has become having a soft drink.

But you We talk about the flavor, coke has changed, has added, well, the original coke has not changed.

Coke has added a lot of options. And I'll give you an example.

My favorite right now has become the new Coca-Cola coffee.

I don't know if Kevin, if you've tried that one, but it's a good one.

And it's called Coca-Cola coffee.

It comes in that slim can that they're using now for a lot of their new flavors.

And it has three flavors. It has a dark and a vanilla, and I'm trying to think what the other one is. I drink dessert.

I love it. And what I will actually do is I'll take a can and open it up and let it get slightly flat.

Let all the carbonation escape because the coffee flavor comes through even stronger.

[40:29] Wow. And it's just, I like it a lot.

[40:33] Coca-Cola does that, don't they? Well, I'm sitting here thinking to myself, I cannot believe I've not even heard of this before.

And I'm sitting here thinking, I love Coke, I love coffee, and they sound amazing put together.

So I definitely have to try this.

Yeah, it's a good one. And it's only been out, I guess, as far as real mass distribution.

[40:55] I think I've only been able to get it for about six or seven months, you know. But it's a winner. I hope they don't give up on it, because I like

it.

And that's Coca-Cola. I mean, the drinks not only that have the Coca-Cola name on them, but look at the other beverages that Coca-Cola owns.

And we're not talking just Minute Maid orange juice here.

We're talking their involvement with energy drinks, with Monster, and now they've PowerAid.

The competitor to Gatorade, pardon me Florida, the competitor to Gatorade, Coca-Cola now owns.

They bought it like a couple months ago and you can bet with Coca-Cola behind that brand, Gatorade better get ready for some serious competition because

it's coming from Coca-Cola.

It's the one area, Coca-Cola had a small investment in that Powerade product and they ended up buying the whole line and you can watch in the next, just

watch it happen.

You're going to see a lot of promotion and a lot of go after Gatorade market from Coca-Cola.

But they own so many different beverages.

[42:05] For example, are you aware that there's a milk called Fairlife?

[42:12] And you'll see it, it's in the stores, I buy it all at once.

Fairlife is owned by Coca-Cola. Again, it's one of those products that they invested in because they believed in what that dairy was doing and the type

of product they were producing.

And they believed in it so well that ultimately they bought the whole operation.

So if you go to the store and you see Fairlife, they make several different milks, you know, from the locale to whatever, you know.

And I think lately I've seen sort of a yogurt type thing with the Fair Life name on it. But it's all Coca-Cola owned.

And that's Coca-Cola. They keep up with trends, what's going on, what are people drinking, you know. And that's why Coca-Cola continues.

And let's face it, you talk to Mr.

Buffett about where he puts his money. Coca-Cola, he's one of the biggest investors, and he wouldn't sell Coca-Cola to California.

[43:13] The people at Coca-Cola are pretty sharp. They know when to hold them, and they do know when to fold them.

Some things that they try go away, and the ones that are good stay.

[43:26] You look back at another way that they became big was during the Second World War. war.

Coca-Cola went overseas and established small bottling companies in the war zone.

And they did this because they wanted the American boys, when they're over there fighting the war, to have Coca-Cola.

And there was no charge for Coca-Cola.

If you were in the service and you were over there, Coca-Cola had a plant that was making Coca-Cola for the fighting boys.

[44:02] And when they came home to the United States, I wonder what memory they had and what they would drink.

Don't you know, typical Coca-Cola, go out and do something for people and they will be your friend forever.

That is just oh my gosh, it's so interesting. And so it's so smart.

It is so so smart on the people behind Coca-Cola, you know, all the way from the very beginning of how they have grown into to what it is today.

When, like you said, I mean, when you know that you've done well with your branding, when somebody who wants a soda, they say, I want a Coke.

That's right. You know, and yeah, that's fascinating.

Well, and the people, you know, obviously, as like in any industry, there's been a merger or consolidation.

[45:00] You know, little bottlers were brought out by bigger bottlers.

And one of the things you can credit that to is transportation.

And one time, you know, there was a Coca-Cola plant in almost any town of any size. Well, as transportation improved, they found it made more sense to

bottle in one place and truck it to other locations.

So that's how that all happened. And the families that have remained, and believe me, there are families that are fourth, fifth generation families that

are still bottling and selling Coca-Cola.

These people are amazing people. I've had the chance to meet them, to learn their family histories, and to really get to know people that love the product

as much as their customers love the product.

And they'll tell you amazing stories as to how they got started and how they got into it.

And I've got all that in the book. And it's interesting.

You know, some of them, they thought, oh, we don't know if this is going to go.

We'll try it. A good example out in Iowa, one of the biggest independent Coca-Cola bottlers in Iowa is a company in the town of Atlantic, not to be confused

with Atlanta.

[46:22] And they were bottling soft drinks, oranges and limes and all that, and they were making ice cream.

And they bought out a company that was an ice cream company, and they found in the safe a contract for the territory for Coca-Cola.

But this company that they bought had never bottled Coca-Cola.

And in Iowa, there wasn't much Coca-Cola bottling going on anywhere.

So they thought, well, let's try it. So they bottled some Coca-Cola.

And what they would do, somebody would order, you know, a grocery store would say, send us a case of sodas, they called them sodas.

So they'd put in some orange, and they'd put in some lemon and some sarsaparilla, and they'd slip in a couple of Coca-Colas to see what would happen. Well,

guess what?

The Coca-Colas started taking off, and the next thing they were sending four cases of Coca-Cola because they got people to try it.

That's amazing. But it took that interest.

It took the families to say, we believe in this and we're going to promote it. And they did.

There's a case in Santa Fe, New Mexico, where same thing, a guy.

[47:41] Family got the rights to bottle Coca-Cola.

And so they bottled their first couple of cases and the man took it over to his favorite local grocery store, so confident in what he had.

He said, I'm going to leave this case here, and I'll be back in a week to pick up the money and you go ahead and sell it.

Well, he came back in a week and his case of Coca-Cola was being used as a doorstop.

He said, hmm, got to get people to try it.

[48:10] So what he did, he thought, you know, if people are thirsty, they'll try it.

So he bought a large 50-pound bag of salted peanuts in the shell.

And he got his kids, put these peanuts in little bitty bags, and he would go to the high school football game and he would sell peanuts.

And he knew that for every bag of peanuts he sold, that person would come back and before the game was over, would probably buy two bottles of Coca-Cola.

And so that was his way of getting people to try Coca-Cola. And that became, you know, sort of that that bottling company that became their tradition for

years, just because that's the way they got started.

And of course, how about the country song, you know, Peanuts and My Coke, you know, I mean, give it a try. Why not? Absolutely.

Oh, my goodness. Well, well, there is so much about Coca-Cola. I was just so intrigued.

And I can only imagine those listening are as well. So where can people find your book, The Coca-Cola Trail?

The simplest way is to go to the website, thecocacolatrail.com, and you go there.

Actually, there are now two books, Kevin. We've got The Coca-Cola Trail.

The Birth of The Forgotabouts

[49:29] And what happened, after I published The Coca-Cola Trail, I would get communications either in person or by email or whatever from people that

say, You know, your book is great, but you forgot about, and they would tell me about the Coca-Cola plant in Clarksville or wherever.

So I started a little box, I called it The Forgotabouts, and pretty soon I had enough leads in that little box.

To do another book. So I have since done the second book, which is called Return to the Coca-Cola Trail.

So there are two. If you go to the website, there's two books there.

I would recommend the buy the original one first, because that really gives you, you know, how it all started.

And the second one is just a continuation.

[50:23] Anyhow, so we were talking about, there are two books.

You can get them at the website. There are a lot of places, but they're not in the big bookstores.

They're not at Barnes and Noble and all that, books a million.

But there are places there are. For example, in your backyard, go to the museum.

The gift store at the museum in Daytona Beach has got the books.

There's a lot of museums that have them. There's a lot of country stores, places that sell Coca-Cola memorabilia.

You never know, you're going to walk into a store and there's going to be a display of the Coca-Cola Trail books.

But if you want to make sure, and you know, now buying online is where we're at, just go to the website, thecocacolatrail.com and, you know, if you want,

put a little message or sign this to me or sign this to my sweetheart or whatever. We'll sign it and send it off to you.

[51:22] Well, that's fantastic. Fantastic. Well, my goodness, Larry, I am just I'm blown away.

I'm so excited that I got to just sit down and have this conversation with you today about about now your two books and about Coca-Cola. And I don't know,

it's been an awesome episode, awesome conversation with you.

And to be quite honest, I'm kind of feeling like I need to go pop a Coke.

So I will confess I've had one sitting here next to me while we're talking and it is the Coca-Cola coffee.

That's my current beverage of choice. We'll see what they come out with next, but that's where we're on.

Well, fantastic. Well, well, Larry, again, you know, sincerely.

Really, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to be a guest here on the podcast.

I'm super excited for my listeners to get to hear our conversation.

Something fun, a little bit different and about just this, you know, amazing, really, really it's a story of an entrepreneurial, you know, story of a business,

of a company that has become so well known that it's, you know, it becomes part of our, out of.

[52:36] You are part of our Christmas and so so Larry just I would you know sincerely thank you.

Well I've enjoyed it and to have the opportunity to to talk about Coca-Cola during the holidays what could be better you know that that's the time to do

it and and you've been very gracious to let that happen Kevin thank you so much.

Absolutely absolutely and to you listening I want to wish you a Merry Christmas if you are indeed listening to today's episode when it is released the

week of Christmas.

And well, I hope you've enjoyed the episode and let's do it all, all ourself a favor and let's go have a nice ice cold Coca-Cola.

[53:18] Music.