Show Transcript

[TRANSCRIPT]

0:00:00 - (Angie Griffith): It. And I know it takes time. Again, nothing is overnight. But I see how powerful podcasting can be as a business asset. Whether you're making money directly through your podcast or your podcast is a marketing tool, directing people back to another arm of your business. Whatever it is, I firmly believe that a podcast is the most powerful asset a small business can have.

0:00:24 - (Kevin Lowe): You it. What's up, my friend? And welcome at Degrit, grace and inspiration. I am your host, Kevin Lowe. 20 years ago, I awoke from a life saving surgery only to find that I was left completely blind. And since that day, I've learned a lot about life, a lot about living, and a lot about myself. And here on this podcast, I want to share those insights with you. Because, friend, if you are still searching for your purpose, still trying to understand why, or still left searching for that next right path to take will consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from where you are to where you want to be.

0:01:05 - (Kevin Lowe): It's no doubt that in this life, we are faced with choices each and every day, we have a choice to make. Now, yeah, some of those choices are bigger than others. Some of them are more impactful on our lives than others, but nonetheless, they are choices. Now, here's the important thing that I want to say is that most people think that when presented with a choice to make, that there's a right choice and a wrong choice, there's a right decision and a wrong decision.

0:01:38 - (Kevin Lowe): Well, I'm here to change that way of thinking because I believe the only way that you can fail is if you choose to forego a decision at all. You choose to not move forward in life. You choose to stay the same because, well, even though you may choose option A and it leads down the direction you had hoped to go, and that leads you to think that, hey, I made the right choice. Whereas if in another situation, another day, another moment, you instead chose option B, which led you down a different path, something you never saw coming.

0:02:26 - (Kevin Lowe): And at first glance, you're led to believe that you chose wrong, that you lost. But, well, it doesn't work like that because if you keep going, you're going to finally see, oh, no, I was just led to see and experience a different part of life. And most of the time, you're going to end up realizing that your life is better because of it. It's the beautiful, crazy, messed up way that life works. My name is Kevin Lowe. I'm your host, as well as a transformational life and business coach when not sitting here behind the microphone of the podcast.

0:03:08 - (Kevin Lowe): Today, I am bringing you episode number 212 with a woman named Angie Griffith. Now, why was I talking all about this choice talk in my perspective on no bad choice? Well, that's because angie Griffith in her story, I believe is a perfect representation of this very mindset. My interview today with Angie wraps up my six week series on giving back to podcasting by showcasing my favorite people in the podcast industry.

0:03:46 - (Kevin Lowe): Angie has an exciting story, a life full of choices. Choices that have led her in directions that I don't think she ever saw coming because, well, Angie at one point in time would make a choice to move to Nashville, Tennessee in pursue of a country music career. Well, that choice would lead her down many different twists and turns to find her where she is today doing something totally different. And that is the host of Podfluencer Society.

0:04:21 - (Kevin Lowe): Angie is an amazing podcast host who wears her heart on her sleeve, who isn't afraid to share the ups and the downs of her entrepreneurial successes and failures. That is what attracted me to Angie so much, is that she is real, she is honest, she is Angie Griffith. And her story, well, I hope her story encourages you to realize that maybe you're headed down a path in life and you're really not sure where it's going.

0:04:57 - (Kevin Lowe): Things haven't gone the way you had planned. But that doesn't mean that you should give up. That doesn't mean that you should turn around. It just means that you got to keep going and see where this road leads you. And chances are it's going to lead you somewhere more amazing than you ever thought possible. With that said, I introduce you to Angie Griffin.

0:05:26 - (Angie Griffith): I always knew I wanted to work in the music business. When I was little, like third grade, I created like a fake record store in my bedroom and I would sell CDs to my imaginary friends. I mean, nerd alert I would actually go into because, you know, back in the day of physical CDs we had liner notes and I thought it was a fun activity to skim through CD liner notes to try to find typos and spelling errors.

0:05:56 - (Angie Griffith): And it's jokes on me because I have become such a detail oriented person that in my time in management, I was like the go to for every single client on our roster before their CD would go to print, it would go through my desk because I have the eye. And I hated it. I hated it so much. But I would spot the errors.

0:06:19 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah.

0:06:20 - (Angie Griffith): So I didn't know that I would be in management. I thought I was going to be on the artist side. So when I was a little girl, I was like, I want to be a singer. And then as I grew up, I started to realize that actually I wanted to be a songwriter because it wasn't necessarily that I wanted to be on stage, but it was more so I wanted the residual income. Again, it goes back to this dream we're sold of making money in your sleep. And when I learned about copyright, and I learned about licensing music. I was like, yeah, that's what I want to do. I want to write songs, and I want to live my life right.

0:06:53 - (Angie Griffith): So I started playing open mics and little shows around the South Side of Chicago, where I was a bigger fish in a very small pond. And then I moved to Nashville, and I was like, okay, I'm not as good as everybody else, and I had to just really get honest with myself. And it wasn't that I truly believe I'm a fantastic songwriter. Not to toot my own horn, but I can write a song. And especially if I had worked on that craft for the past ten years, I know without a doubt, I would be great in a writing room.

0:07:27 - (Angie Griffith): But where I was lacking was I played a guitar based on memory. Like, I didn't have proper guitar lessons growing up. I was so terrified every time I went on stage, even at a writer's round, that I would forget a chord. And because I don't know the theory behind the like, I'm just literally frozen if I forget something. So I knew I didn't want to be playing open mics, but also, just like in Nashville, everyone is so and, like, if you don't play an instrument, you're not really invited into writing rooms because everyone plays instruments here and they play them really well. So I had to figure out, like, okay, what can I do?

0:08:04 - (Angie Griffith): And I knew again, I wanted the residual income. I wanted to be my own boss. So while I was in college, I founded the very first songwriting internship at my university called Belmont University. And that was actually really cool, looking back on it, to say that I was the first person to ever have a songwriting internship. But then after college, I started my own publishing company, and I won't go into too many details, but eventually what I learned was very quickly I learned this, is that the music industry is all based on who you know. Like, it's not what you know, it's who do you know, what rooms can you get into? And coming straight out of college, I didn't have that leverage that I needed, and so I just felt really stuck. And then I decided I was working at this high end club, like a private club, making three times what all my friends were making who were starting in the music industry, because music industry pays like absolute garbage, especially at the beginning.

0:09:00 - (Angie Griffith): But I just couldn't pull myself away from cocktail waitress job because of the money. And so I started to get real with myself, and I was like, Listen, if I don't get started now, I'm going to be, like, 50 still cocktail waitressing, and I'll never have gone after my dreams. It's now or never. I'm going to have to take a salary cut. And so I was deciding what I wanted to do, and I didn't really know what management meant at the time.

0:09:29 - (Angie Griffith): I, too thought it was way more glamorous than it actually is. And so I just decided to take this job at a management company, realized I didn't love it, but I was very good at it, which is why I stayed in it for so long. And then yeah, the rest is history.

0:09:46 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. So now in that role, management, talk to me, what did you actually do? Oh, gosh, what does that role involve?

0:09:54 - (Angie Griffith): So the best way to describe it is the manager kind of acts like a goalie for the artist. So everything is your fault, everything's your problem, everything's your celebration. As the manager, you're the closest business relationship to the artist. And so that's why I say you act like a goalie. So the artist has all of these external members on their team. They have their booking agent, their lawyer, their publicist, their publisher, songwriters, producers, tour managers, all these different players on their team.

0:10:21 - (Angie Griffith): And it's the manager's job to absorb all of the information coming in from all of those different people who have their own individual agendas for what is best for the artist's career. And then the manager digests all of that information, brings it back to the artist, converses with the artist, advises the artist, and then comes back to the whole team with a comprehensive plan moving forward that gets everyone closer to the artist goals.

0:10:46 - (Angie Griffith): So on top of all of that, we're also the ones in charge of every single thing that happens in the artist's professional career and sometimes even personal life, depending on how strong your boundaries are with your clients. But let's say the artist has an award show. It's the manager's job to coordinate travel, to coordinate. What entrance do they go into, how do we pick up their passes, like, what's their access in the venue and how do they get to their dressing room, and all of these little things that nobody really thinks of. So it's very logistics first and creative second, especially if you're the owner or the partner of the management company.

0:11:26 - (Angie Griffith): It's definitely more of a creative kind of collaborative environment. But as even I was a senior manager, I was still doing so many logistics, and even with an assistant under me, it's like I'm still responsible for what might fall through the cracks on their end. And we just had really high standards at this company that I was at, which is amazing. Made me the detail oriented amazing, I think, business person that I've become largely because of them.

0:11:53 - (Angie Griffith): But it was no joke, like, no room for mistakes, no room for errors, and just always had I don't think I turned my phone off once in my 20s because you just can't yeah.

0:12:03 - (Kevin Lowe): How long did you say you worked in that?

0:12:05 - (Angie Griffith): I was in the music business for, gosh, like, over a decade, just like in various capacities. And then I was in management specifically for just over eight years.

0:12:15 - (Kevin Lowe): Well, that seems like a really long time in a field like that because that just sounds like so much stress.

0:12:21 - (Angie Griffith): So much stress.

0:12:23 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah.

0:12:25 - (Angie Griffith): Not even just with the client. Because also you have to realize you're dealing with artists who have very unique and strong personalities that you're navigating. Right. And then if you're managing a band, you have five, six, seven, sometimes eight band members that you're navigating. Right. But also just the internal dynamics of the management company itself. Right. Like dealing with your bosses who have their agenda for the artist and then trying to keep up with the logistics for your boss's travel, especially as an assistant.

0:12:52 - (Angie Griffith): There's just so much that goes into it. It's like people have no idea.

0:12:56 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. No, that's insane. Now, I'm curious, was there a specific moment towards the end when was that spark that said, I have to do something different?

0:13:11 - (Angie Griffith): Yeah, honestly, the spark happened pretty gradually because the music business, although I've described it as this really difficult landscape to navigate and a lot of work, but it also the amount of work it takes to get to the position I was in. Working with the caliber of clients I was working with, that is something that I had to think long and hard about if I want to give that up or not. Right.

0:13:40 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah.

0:13:40 - (Angie Griffith): People would have given their right arm to be in the position I was in. And even now, I'm getting emotional just talking about it because even now, I'm like, wow, I could see myself living a parallel life. Like, I was about to build out a podcast department. They offered that to me before I left. And I could have done that. I mean, I did that for a year during the pandemic there, but they wanted me to stay okay. And do that.

0:14:02 - (Angie Griffith): And I could see myself living that life like, I would have loved it in many ways. But the reality that I came to for myself after about two years of thinking hard about it was I care more about creating my own generational wealth and setting my future kids up for success and taking care of my family in the way that I want to. Like being in control of my time as an entrepreneur. That lifestyle was more important to me than all the work it took to get to the position I was in.

0:14:39 - (Angie Griffith): And so once I made that decision, it was like such a weight off my shoulders. And what happened was this was like 2018 or so, is when I came to that conclusion and when I decided, okay, it's time. I'm going to tell the company that I'm leaving management. The reason I wanted to tell them is because I had been working on the same client literally since we signed him to the company. We signed him the week I was hired, and no other manager besides the partner of the company above me had ever touched his account.

0:15:14 - (Angie Griffith): And he was a legacy act. He's one of our biggest clients. And I knew that I didn't want to just leave them high and dry on that account. And I just thought they would appreciate me coming to them early on, right, so they could find the right person to replace me and so I could properly train them. And so I ended up telling my bosses I was leaving well before I knew what I was going to do, where I was going to go.

0:15:36 - (Angie Griffith): I didn't know any of that. And there was, like, a very strong chance that they could have given me two weeks, right, and I could have had to figure out what I was going to do. But they responded in the way that I hoped they would, and they said, thank you so much for telling us. We are appreciate that, we respect your decision. We don't want to see you go, but let us know how we can help you. And in the meantime, we'll start interviewing a replacement. And the timing, it'll just work out. They were like, don't worry about it. We're not worrying about it. And so I wasn't worrying about it was going to be great. And they even said, if you find somewhere you want to work or you find someone you want to partner with, let us know. Let us know how we can recommend you. Put in a good word. It was just like this dream scenario. Okay?

0:16:16 - (Angie Griffith): One of the very first meetings I took was with another manager in town who was, like, at the level of my bosses. He also owned his own management company, had really high caliber artists, and he had been wanting to build out a brand partnerships department within his management company. And for the listener who might not know what that is, essentially it's a department that connects brands with artists. So, like, for instance, if they manage a country act who's going out on a tour, we want to find a brand, like, let's say, Firestone Tires to sponsor the tour. Right?

0:16:48 - (Kevin Lowe): Okay.

0:16:48 - (Angie Griffith): All right. So he had been flying people in and interviewing left and right, and he just hadn't found the right person to build out this brand partnerships department. And I went and I talked with him because I thought this could be such an amazing opportunity, because I love brand partnerships, I always have. But also it was an opportunity for equity, but with support. So I would have equity in this department he was building out, but I would also have a salary, which for me was like, best case scenario.

0:17:17 - (Angie Griffith): And so he ended, know, agreeing to hire me. That was like, the plan. And in one of our very last meetings this is crazy. And Kevin, you probably know this story just from listening to my podcast, but for everyone else, I was leaving his office, and he asked me this question. He was angie, like, both of us have very strong relationships in the music world, but in the brand world, we both are kind of starting from scratch. So do you have any ideas for how we can create these strong brand relationships?

0:17:48 - (Angie Griffith): And I was almost embarrassed to say my answer because I just thought off the top of my head, I hadn't thought it through. But I was like, what if we start a podcast where we interview the heads of brands? And that way we're building up this rolodex of heads of companies that know, love and trust us, and we don't need anything from them right then. But when we do need something, we're going to have somebody who loves us.

0:18:10 - (Angie Griffith): And he was like, that's brilliant. He was like, do you know how to start a podcast? And I was like, no, but I'm a manager. I can figure anything out. And he was like, okay, so he was traveling for the next three weeks. And so he's like, while I'm traveling, I'm going to be talking to my business manager. We're going to figure out your salary and equity and all of that stuff, and then you talking to me. He was like, you figure out how to start a podcast, and then we'll reconvene in three weeks.

0:18:41 - (Angie Griffith): So I was like, okay, great. Literally, the logistics of starting a podcast was like, easy, okay? Even having no experience in podcasting at the time, I was like, okay, done. Check production equipment, that stuff. It was like, no problem. But when I started to actually map out what the podcast would look like, I realized very quickly, we can't start a podcast based on what the podcast can do for us.

0:19:10 - (Angie Griffith): We have to start a podcast based on how are we going to build an audience that would attract the head of Firestone Tires. To want to be on our podcast, we need to bring value to an audience. We need to build a brand. And so it turned into, what podcast are we going to start? And I came up with a title. I did, like, a cover art for the podcast. I came up with an intro, a recorded intro with music and everything.

0:19:41 - (Angie Griffith): Social media. I made up a fake social media Instagram account with all the branding. I thought of everything. And then when we met again in three weeks, I sat down with his entire company, not just him. And I was like, I need 20 minutes of your undivided attention. And I pulled up my Canva presentation, and I presented this idea for this podcast that we could start as a company. And after that meeting, he was like, Angie, like, I would love to start this brand partnerships department with you, but I'm thinking, and I want to know what you would think.

0:20:18 - (Angie Griffith): How would you feel about me signing you as our first ever podcast client? And instead of building out this brand partnerships division right now. Let me just match the salary you're already making plus bonuses based on what we can do with the podcast. And I was like, am I in a dream? Like what? It is unheard of for a management company to offer a talent deal to another manager. If anyone in the entertainment industry knows, it's, like, totally unheard of. I was like, on cloud nine, and I was like, yeah.

0:20:52 - (Angie Griffith): He and I both thought about it separately because he also had a relationship with my bosses. And in business in general, not even just entertainment, but in business in general, relationships are so important, you just always want to preserve the relationships you have. So we both came together and we thought that it was the right thing to do for me to offer the opportunity to my current company first.

0:21:13 - (Kevin Lowe): Okay.

0:21:14 - (Angie Griffith): And I was thinking, like, of course they're going to say, Angie, like, this is like, we wish you all the best of luck, right? But I was going to feel good about offering it to them. So I fly to La. I'm like sitting with all my bosses at this big fancy conference table pitching them this idea, and they said, okay, we'll offer you your salary plus bonuses, plus you get to keep your assistant. And I was like, what?

0:21:40 - (Angie Griffith): In what world? And for reference, I think at the time, my base salary was I want to say it was like $70,000. Okay.

0:21:50 - (Kevin Lowe): Okay.

0:21:51 - (Angie Griffith): And I'm like, this is insane to literally play around and create a podcast. You're going to pay me $70,000 plus bonuses and keep my assistant, who was probably making at the time like, 40 grand. And I was like, okay, so that was the plan. And so at the time, I had two clients that I was managing day to day, which means I was their primary point of contact. Like, I was the head manager on two accounts, and one account was that legacy act that I mentioned earlier. And then the other one was kind of a rotating client.

0:22:22 - (Angie Griffith): It would be sometimes like a smaller act that we were developing or whatever. So I was able to transition the smaller act right away because it was an associate manager was about to get promoted, and that was perfect timing. So I transferred that one act. So I still had my legacy act while we were still interviewing other managers. And then in the second half of my time, I was working on this podcast project.

0:22:46 - (Angie Griffith): Well, wouldn't you know, that's exactly when the pandemic hit. And so for a management company where 95% of our income was touring, that obviously impacted us in a huge way. Like, we had to pull down stadium tours, arena tours, full tours. I mean, I'm talking like, this is a lot of money. We're pulling off the books. We had to let people go from the company. Everyone got salary reductions obviously, it was not the right time to start this creative podcast risk of a project, right?

0:23:19 - (Angie Griffith): And I agreed. Obviously wholeheartedly. And so we all decided in the meantime, I would build out a podcast division along with one of the partners of the company, and we would just learn about the podcasting space, especially me. Learn about the podcasting space, create relationships and all of these things so that whenever the world got back to normal, we could go back to our plan and we would have better insight and all of the things we needed. And I told them, I was very clear with them. I was like, I'm not staying here to build out a podcast division long term.

0:23:53 - (Angie Griffith): I'm going to do this in the interim because it makes sense. But I just want you guys to know this isn't a long term department that I'm building out here. You may have to hire someone to take this over, right? And they were like, okay, so then we start to put back up all of our tours, and I start to realize we're never going back to this original podcast project because we built out this department and it's like, going really well and all of these things. So I ended up having to go back to them and say, you know what, guys, I love you, but I technically quit three years ago, and it's time to just go our separate ways.

0:24:26 - (Angie Griffith): And they were like, obviously they were really bummed because they were hoping that I was actually going to change my mind and continue building out this podcast division. It was an amazing opportunity, truly. I swear in a parallel universe, I'm doing it because it was a really hard decision to turn down. But on the other hand, I had to go back to the decision I made three years ago where it's so important that I build my own thing, right, and have autonomy over my time, which was never going to be possible working for somebody else.

0:24:55 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. Why do you think that was so important to you?

0:24:59 - (Angie Griffith): It's always been important to me, even since I was a little girl. I've never considered a career where I didn't have autonomy over my time. Not to say that I don't want to work hard. I will work harder than anyone. I work 1214 hours a day sometimes like crazy weekends. I'm not opposed to work. And I've done hard work since I was 14 years old. I've always had a job, and I've always had three, four jobs. Right.

0:25:26 - (Angie Griffith): But at the same time, I've always had this vision for myself that I can work from where I want, I can travel, work remotely. And it was not going to be possible being an artist manager at the company I was working for and in the way that I was. And to be honest, I never enjoyed being an artist. Didn't I didn't know what a manager was when I took that position, I just got really good at it. And it was never my dream to be an art. I wanted to be a songwriter. Right?

0:25:55 - (Angie Griffith): I don't know. Yeah. So I just always wanted to have my own business. And honestly, when I was still in the Chicago area, before I actually moved down to Nashville to pursue a songwriting career, I was running a family grocery business. Very quick story. My very first boyfriend, when we were 19, he had always known he was going to take over his family's grocery business. They had a grocery store. It was like a multimillion dollar business, small business.

0:26:22 - (Angie Griffith): And when we were 19, the store burned down and his dad didn't have the proper insurance. And so his dad, him and me built it from scratch the same way his dad did when he came here from Greece in the 70s. He started selling grapes on the side of the road. And so my boyfriend and I and his dad started selling watermelon and sweet corn on the side of the road. And we turned it into a grocery store in a couple of years.

0:26:47 - (Kevin Lowe): Wow.

0:26:48 - (Angie Griffith): I mean, you can imagine how hard we were working. Like, grocery is no joke of a business. And I freaking loved it. Again, in a parallel universe, I would still be running that grocery store. It's all about just having my own equity in something, right. It doesn't matter what it is. I have so many different talents. It's just what I've learned about myself is you have to pick something and focus on it. Otherwise, I'm just never going to be successful in anything because I just jump, jump, jump.

0:27:14 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah, no doubt. When you are on this journey, where you've been, even where you are today, is there anybody and I'm going to talk either celebrities, musicians, or just people in your personal life that are like a figure that you look to for inspiration.

0:27:38 - (Angie Griffith): In the podcasting space?

0:27:40 - (Kevin Lowe): No, just anyone. Whether like I said, whether it's somebody high up, a celebrity who everybody knows, or somebody in your own just personal world. Just curious if there's anybody who you get your inspiration from to keep going to keep doing what you're doing.

0:27:59 - (Angie Griffith): I think there's a few. And I'll just speak to the business side of it. I see podcasters in particular because I wouldn't be working as hard on my podcast and in a whole business around podcasting if I didn't really truly believe in what it can bring. And I know it takes time. Again, nothing is overnight. But I see how powerful podcasting can be as a business asset. Whether you're making money directly through your podcast or your podcast as a marketing tool, directing people back to another arm of your business, whatever it is.

0:28:30 - (Angie Griffith): I firmly believe that a podcast is the most powerful asset a small business can have. And so I look at these big I mean, people that have. Been in podcasting since the glory days when it was much easier to get discovered and much easier to get listeners. But it doesn't mean that they're not working as hard as everyone else, right? So I look at, for instance, Alex Cooper, who built call her Daddy from Absolute Scratch, and look at what it is now. It's getting, what was it? $60 million for a three year deal from Spotify.

0:29:03 - (Angie Griffith): That's crazy, right? And of course, she had help from Barstool early on in her career, but who's to say I can't get help from a marketing partner at some point that can blow my brand up? Or I look at the boss babe podcast. Danielle and Natalie started boss Babe podcast. I don't know the exact year, but it had to be early on, like, probably 2016, 2017, if I had to guess. And they're still going strong with a multimillion dollar seven figure business.

0:29:30 - (Angie Griffith): All started from their podcast. I look at Allie Reeves, who? Her podcast is called All In with Allie. And in three years, she now has I believe she's almost at the seven figure mark. But all of this is possible, not just because of their podcast, but the podcast has a lot to do with all of these different scenarios. I mean, especially Alex Cooper, obviously. But I really look at people who are doing big things in this space, and I just keep my eye on that because I know it's possible.

0:30:02 - (Angie Griffith): If I keep taking aligned action and pivoting when I need to pivot and just working towards my goals and not taking no for an answer because I've seen them do it, I know it's possible. So if they can do it, why can't I?

0:30:15 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. I love it. One thing that I have truly admired about you ever since I got to know you through the podcasting space, and I've seen you on this journey in your own business and your own podcast. What I truly admire about you is that you are probably one of the most real, authentic, don't care, let down your hair, let people see Angie Griffith without makeup. We're speaking just figuratively here in the fact of letting people in on the fact that life is tough.

0:30:55 - (Kevin Lowe): Entrepreneurship is horribly difficult. Rarely does it go in these dream scenarios. It's tough and it's the grind. And yet I look at you on your podcast and you're real about it, and you do that and you're authentic and you put your guard down. Where does that come from? And what made you decide to not be, like, the norm, to not shade that, but to let people in on what's really going on?

0:31:28 - (Angie Griffith): Well, first of all, thank you so much for acknowledging that, because it is like a decision that I made, right? Because I can choose to share the highs, only the highs, which some people choose to do. But I really feel like if I want to really impact somebody's journey, I need to share with them the lowest lows. And I started actually recording. So the first year into my podcast, I released this episode called My Unfiltered Truth, year One in Online Business.

0:32:00 - (Angie Griffith): And I just completely, like you said, unfiltered shared my expectations versus realities, and I shared how much debt I was in and how my download numbers were awful. And me at the time, positioning myself as a leader in the podcasting space, talking about my low download numbers is a tough decision to make. And anyone in online business can agree in whatever industry you're in to share while you're failing is very unique because most people will share about their failures after they've already reached success.

0:32:33 - (Angie Griffith): But the reason I so intentionally recorded that episode and I did the same thing for year Two is because I want to be able to, number one, relate to my listeners, because I know everyone experiences the ups and downs of entrepreneurship if you're in this space. And I think the way that I can create a close connection with the people that choose to give their time and listening to my podcast is by being myself and being real. And that's going to mean I make mistakes. It's going to mean that I contradict myself.

0:33:02 - (Angie Griffith): It's going to mean that I change my opinion on things because I'm still discovering my own journey, but I'm okay with that because I'm not speaking to me now. I'm not trying to speak to my equals or even anyone above me. I mean, not that I don't obviously I do speak to them too. But for me, who I'm really trying to impact is me two years ago. And I want to be able in five years from now, hopefully, when I see the success I want to see for myself, I want to be able to direct people back to that year one episode the year two episode, so that they can see that I was not an overnight success and I had really low, lows right. And that I got through it because I was focused and determined and stuck with something long enough to see it work.

0:33:53 - (Angie Griffith): And I think that it's really easy for these gurus to tell you that, to tell you that after the fact, but very few people are sharing during the fact. And I just think it's a really powerful way to relate to the audience.

0:34:07 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah, well, I did. I had to say that because it's true and honest, that I think that's what makes you you and so amazing is your authenticity and not putting up that guard. It's something that we don't see enough. And I think it comes across really amazing in letting us realize that we're all a whole lot more alike than sometimes we think. We tend to think that everybody else has got it going on but us.

0:34:42 - (Kevin Lowe): But you help to realize that, you know what? Hey, Angie, she's struggling too. And that's know we're in the same know.

0:34:50 - (Angie Griffith): Definitely.

0:34:51 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. So I love that. So you've been on this role with podcasting. It's one thing to start a podcast. We all know the stats that many people start a podcast, even more people stop podcasting. What is it about podcasting that has you so compelled to keep going?

0:35:12 - (Angie Griffith): It's because of the reality I know to be true, is that if you stick with something long enough, it's going to work. If you keep improving again, like I said, you can't just keep doing the same thing over and over again and not seeing results, that's not going to work. But if you really commit to a space, whether that's a podcast, whether that's instagram reels, whether that's your TikTok, whatever it is, if you really commit to it and seriously go all in and you pivot when you need to pivot, and you grow and you learn and you keep doing it no matter what, there's no way you can fail. And so for me, what I've seen in podcasting is from all of the guests that I've had on my podcast and all of the friends that I have that have been in the podcasting space for way longer than I have. This common trend that I've seen is nobody really knows if their podcast is going to work or not until that three year mark.

0:36:10 - (Angie Griffith): And so for me, it's been really easy to keep going without seeing the results that I want to see, because in my mind, I'm like, okay, I'm at least just going to make a decision at the three year mark. But until the three year mark, I'm not even going to look back and I'm just going to keep going full steam ahead. Now, is it guaranteed that at the three year mark it's going to all of a sudden blow up? Absolutely not. Right.

0:36:33 - (Angie Griffith): But I believe with such a conviction that if I don't stick it out until three years, then I'm doing myself a disservice and it's all for nothing. So there's no chance I'm quitting before three years.

0:36:48 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. No, I love it. But what I love about it, though, is that the fact of even though you have this three year commitment, this three year goal, it doesn't mean, though, that you don't pivot, you don't change yourself. So talk to me about the decision, because you rebranded your podcast. Talk to me about the decision that went into that.

0:37:13 - (Angie Griffith): Yeah, so I always knew I was like, for sure, the podcast was like my dream. Okay. And this was because I was looking at podcasters like Boss Babe Podcast and Amy Porterfield and Jenna Kutcher and all these OGS. In the podcasting space, I always recognize the value of having a podcast. But when I first left the management company to start my own business, my first priority was getting clients, because I had to pay my bills.

0:37:40 - (Angie Griffith): And so I started a podcast simply to have something out there in the podcast apps that would bring people into my funnel, that would have them interested in my freebies, interested in my services products. And so the first podcast that I created as part of this business was called Four Things for Your Podcast. And I wanted it to be super low commitment. So it was Four Things for Your Podcast in four minutes or less.

0:38:05 - (Angie Griffith): So each week, I would put up a four minute episode, teaching something about podcasting and then hoping to get all these clients from this. And what I realized very quickly was that was the most draining thing I could have possibly done. It did not feel in alignment. I didn't share the podcast with anybody. It was literally just there in case someone stumbled upon it in the podcast app, because I felt like I had to have something in the app if I was going to be talking about podcasting.

0:38:31 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah.

0:38:32 - (Angie Griffith): And so gosh, it was only just like a couple of months of doing that. I dreaded every moment of every moment. It was the worst thing ever, okay? But eventually I was like, you know what? I want to eventually have a podcast. I might as well just make this podcast into something that's actually enjoyable. And so I started to record longer, normal length episodes. My first one was a solo episode. And then I started inviting guests on from there.

0:39:00 - (Angie Griffith): And it felt even though it was way more work, obviously it felt so much more in alignment, and it was actually easier for me to do because it felt more in alignment. And then I was like, well, how do I make this title work? Four things for your podcast that's not really in four minutes or less. I'm not giving four tips per episode. So I started asking my guests at the end of the episode, I'd say whatever the topic is that we were talking about, I'd be like, what are your top four tips for the audience on this topic?

0:39:26 - (Angie Griffith): And then that started to feel like super out of alignment because I didn't want to put all this extra homework on my guests to prepare that much for the interview. And then somebody suggested to me, why don't you just recap your four takeaways from the episode? Because not only does that still stick with the Four Things theme, but also it really helps to position me as a leader and authority on my own podcast. Kind of taking my four takeaways from the guest that was on.

0:39:54 - (Angie Griffith): And obviously it sounded awful to me because that's like a whole nother line item on my plate. After recording the interview, I have to go back and thoughtfully think of my four takeaways and record something about it. But I knew that was the right move for the show. That person was absolutely right. It's somebody that I highly respect in the podcasting space. And I knew that was the right move for the show.

0:40:18 - (Angie Griffith): So I started doing that, and then I just started building up all of this resentment for this extra step that I was doing to have to fit myself into this title box that I created for myself when I wasn't even planning on sharing this podcast with anybody. And I eventually was like, this was two years into my podcast just recently that I decided this. I was like, you know what? I no longer speak to the Beginner podcaster. I mean, in many ways I do, but that's not my target audience. My target audience is creators who are building thriving brands and businesses with their podcast at the center. So, again, we're talking about high level strategy, more focused on monetization and marketing and strategies for growth and just general kind of more relaxed style of interviewing where it's more about just like, hey, tell me about you and how you got to where you are, and can we pull any inspiration from your journey? Kind of thing.

0:41:13 - (Angie Griffith): And I started to realize, like, okay, who am I actually speaking to? And I'm really speaking to influencers in podcasting. And so I was like, oh, Podfluencer, that sounds cool. And so I knew I wanted that word in the title. And then I decided on Podfluencer Society, and then I decided in I think it was late February to rebrand, and I launched April 18. So very quick. But I did, like, a full marketing plan for it and just really went all in because I looked at it as an opportunity to create new life and create new momentum around the podcast. And I'm really glad I did. It was a ton of work. But yeah, it feels way more in alignment now. I'm no longer having to recap anything at the end, I just record and then I edit it, and I upload it, and it's way better. And yeah, feels way better.

0:42:00 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah. Well, I mean, congrats on the new brand. I totally love it. I agree 100%. I feel as though when you listen to the episode, as soon as your intro comes on, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is so Angie.

0:42:15 - (Angie Griffith): Thank you.

0:42:16 - (Kevin Lowe): I love it so much. So much.

0:42:18 - (Angie Griffith): Thank you.

0:42:19 - (Kevin Lowe): So for the person who is interested, tell me the best place for them to go to find your podcast. Sure. And who best it's kind of for what can they expect? What are the type of interviews or content that they can expect from it?

0:42:35 - (Angie Griffith): Yeah, so like I said, it's the creator who's building a brand and business around your podcast. So anyone with a podcast, if you're doing it as a way to sell your products and services or if you have a goal to work with sponsors, it's really for the person that's really taking their podcast seriously as an asset of their business. So we talk to experts in all different areas. Like, I just published an episode about trademarks and why that's so important for your podcast and whether or not to consider a trademark for your podcast name.

0:43:06 - (Angie Griffith): We also talk to seasoned podcasters just getting their story and their journey and the realness behind their podcasting journey. So this is how I've been able to discover through talking to people on my podcast. Is this reality of it's usually not an overnight success? Does it happen? Yes, but that's not the norm. And that's where I've come up with this three year kind of benchmark, is through talking to so many people on my podcast about their own journey.

0:43:33 - (Angie Griffith): But we do talks about how to even guest on other podcasts or like ratings and reviews why they're important. It's really all over the board. But if you have a podcast and you're using it to create a business or as part of your business, I think you'll find value if you just skim the episodes. And you can just go to Podfluencersociety.com or you can go to my Instagram, which is at the Angie Griffith and click the link in the Bio and you'll find a lot of information there too.

0:44:02 - (Kevin Lowe): Yeah, amazing question for you. We talked about the three year mark. If we eliminated a timetable, if we eliminated a number of episodes, how will you know when you've made it?

0:44:17 - (Angie Griffith): I think that's going to be different for everybody. I think it depends.

0:44:20 - (Kevin Lowe): I'm asking you.

0:44:22 - (Angie Griffith): Well, for me, how I know I've made it is I want my podcast to be my full time income. And so that's my big goal. And do I see that happening right at year three? Probably not, but I see it happening and so that's going to keep me going until it happens. And I see my friends doing it. I mean, literally, I see friends that you wouldn't even know they have a podcast and it's their whole entire income.

0:44:44 - (Angie Griffith): So that's my personal goal. Not everybody even has a goal to monetize their podcast at all. A lot of people don't want to monetize one bit and that's totally fine too. And they're trying to do whatever else they're doing with their podcast, whether it's making an impact or some people have a podcast to direct people back to a nonprofit or to just create awareness around. A lot of branded podcasts don't advertise at all because it's all about storytelling and telling the story behind their brand. It's more of a marketing expense than anything.

0:45:16 - (Angie Griffith): So really, everybody has all these different goals for their podcast and a podcast can be useful in so many different ways. But if I'm being real with you, I'm not one of those people that is like, oh, I do it to share a message. No, I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't have a goal to like, yes, do I want to impact course? Of course. And that's why I chose the subject that I chose. But yeah, at the end of the day, it's a business for me, and I treat it like a love it.

0:45:46 - (Kevin Lowe): I love it so much. Angie, I want to thank you for being you, for being real, for being honest, for shining light on not only your story, but the story of a woman who has kept chasing that dream, has kept chasing entrepreneurship, who wasn't afraid to make some big moves in pursuit of what felt right to her. I applaud you and thank you for being here today.

0:46:15 - (Angie Griffith): Well, and Kevin, I have to thank you as, like, you are such an inspiration to me. The fact that you do this, especially not being able to see I was thinking about this this morning when I was listening to your podcast, and the intro that you wrote for the episode that I listened to was so beautifully written and your editing is done so well. I know you have an editor, but everything you do is just so above and beyond and done at such a high level that I applaud you and you're an inspiration to me. So I just wanted to tell you that as well.

0:46:44 - (Kevin Lowe): Well, thank you so much, Angie. That means so much to me. And Angie again. Thank you. And for you listening today, please be sure to check out today's show notes. All of the links mentioned will be left there. Go over, check out Angie's podcast. Even if you don't think you are a quote unquote podcaster looking for business, it's really entertaining. Some of the guests she has on are a total blast to listen to.

0:47:11 - (Kevin Lowe): And, I mean, we all need another great podcast because there's plenty of those so so podcasts. But I'm trying to draw attention to an awesome one. So definitely check out today's show notes where those links will be provided. And with that said, one more thing.

0:47:26 - (Angie Griffith): If you're not a podcaster and you need a podcast episode to listen to, I just put one out this week that we're recording, so whenever you're listening, it's already out. But I had on this mind reader, world renowned mind reader from America's Got Talent. His name is Wayne Hoffman, and he literally read my mind in the podcast episode. The episode is not about podcasting at all. Go listen to it is so incredible.

0:47:52 - (Angie Griffith): Start there. I also wanted to say, if you're someone who is considering podcasting or especially if you're a podcaster and you're ready to monetize, go to the link in my Instagram bio again, that's at the Angie Griffith. Or you can go to Podfluencerbrands.com, scroll through all the different services that I offer, and I created a discount code for your audience, in particular, Kevin. So anyone can use the code on any of my products or services.

0:48:17 - (Angie Griffith): It's Grit 20, and you can get 20% off anything.

0:48:20 - (Kevin Lowe): Fantastic. Well, first off, thank you for interrupting me and drawing attention to that one specific episode because literally, me and Angie were talking about that interview before we ever hit record today because it is truly mind blowing. Mind blowing its degree. Yes, it is crazy. And so I will make it easy and I will leave a direct link to that episode in the show notes and also links over to Angie's Instagram.

0:48:49 - (Kevin Lowe): Be able to grab that discount code. I'll leave all of that information in. You know, just thank you for being here and get out there and enjoy the day.

0:48:58 - (Angie Griffith): Thank you, Kevin.

0:49:00 - (Kevin Lowe): Of course.