Discover a Deeper Meaning to Life by Crossing Off Your Bucket List with Roger Williams

SPEAKER_01: If I gave you the choice right now, you get to decide what you are known for, what would that be?

Because chances are when somebody comes up to you and they say, Hey, nice to meet you.

What do you do?

You probably respond with your career.

Oh, I'm a lawyer.

Oh, I'm in marketing.

I'm a nurse.

I'm a teacher.

Well, that's awesome.

But what if you want to be known for something more?

Imagine that same conversation.

And instead of you responding with your career, imagine you responding with the way that you choose to live your life.

What if you said, oh, I cross items off my bucket list?

Wow, doesn't that change the direction of the conversation?

Well, here's the thing.

This life, you can choose what you do in it, just like the guest in today's episode.

So if you resonate with this idea of, wow, I could just change my title just like that, sure can.

Roger Williams did.

He changed it to head crosser offer of my bucket list.

And well, that's what he's doing.

So I want to introduce you to a guy who realized that this life is worth living.

And he was going to be sure that he lives it for everything it's worth.

Welcome to the Lowdown with Kevin Lowe, the podcast shining light on the inspiring stories of ordinary people choosing to live out anything but ordinary lives.

All in the hope that you will be inspired to live out your best life.

Because this life is meant to be lived.

And this podcast is meant to inspire you to do it.

Hey, welcome back to the podcast.

My name is Kevin Lowe, the host here on The Lowdown with Kevin Lowe.

And you're joining me today for what is episode 89.

Today, we are talking with a guy named Roger Williams.

A guy who decided that he wanted to be known for more.

He wanted to get everything he could out of this life and make an impact at the same time.

So saying goodbye to a career as a teacher, he set off to take an adult gap year.

Now, I wasn't really sure what that even was, what that meant.

A gap year?

Say what?

But Roger Williams, he fills me in on it.

And well, today's interview is really special because there's a lot of meaning behind the conversation I have with Roger.

He, at the time of this recording, is living his best life, crossing off items on his bucket list.

But here's the thing: even in the midst of life's best days, life happens.

And when I sat down to record this interview with Roger, he let me know that he just got word that his father passed away.

I could hear his voice cracking.

And to be honest, I asked him, Roger, why are we doing this?

I, you know, I let him know, man, we can reschedule this.

And he was adamant that no, he's like, please.

He's like, I'd really love to continue and do the episode.

He's like, maybe it will take my mind off of things.

And I think at the end of the day, what we came out with was something that was so perfect because the topic of our conversation today, it was exactly that the importance for us to live our lives while we have the chance.

None of us know what tomorrow will hold.

We don't.

And so it's so vital that we take the opportunity to live, to laugh, to love, to cross items off our bucket list, to make relationships, to meet new people, try new things, enjoy every aspect of living while we can.

Roger, he's doing that, and he's encouraging people like me to do the same.

Roger, he has a podcast where he's talking to people every week who are crossing off items on their own bucket list, all with this goal of inspiring others to do the same.

And that's what I want you to come away with from today's interview is I want you to be left thinking, okay, what am I gonna start doing?

What changes am I gonna make in my life that are gonna let me start crossing off items that I have on my own bucket list?

So without further delay, I want to get to that interview, but before I do, I gotta give a big thank you to today's sponsor.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so like so many people around the world, the last couple years have been uh a hodgepodge of just emotions and feelings and all sorts of things.

And in 2020, we had been in quarantine for several months, and I wound up having a heart attack and in December of of 2020.

And just it really started me down this road.

Uh, when you're hit with mortality, it usually happens, but really started down this road of where do I find myself worth?

And for so long, you know, I'm 52 years old, and you know, when you meet new people, you you know, the first question is, oh, what do you do?

Who do you work for?

Right.

And that becomes where you find your self-worth.

And I decided that I that I no longer wanted to be known by the fact that I was a teacher and you know, had been a youth pastor and done all these different things, that uh which I sometimes did well and sometimes didn't, but but I wanted to be known on how I lived my life and who I built relationships with.

And so the first thing I did was I went to all my socials and I changed my work to head crossover of my bucket list.

Love it.

And I decided that that's what I wanted to be known for.

I wanted to be known for somebody that that looked at life and uh just didn't sit around and talk about it, but lived lived the out their list.

And so uh that's where I started.

I had already planned to cross a major thing off my bucket list that in 2021, which is to walk the Camino de Santiago, which is a 790 kilometer, 490 mile track across northern Spain.

And so uh I'd already bought my ticket to go to Spain, and and even under the pandemic conditions, every morning I would wake up and say, okay, which country's open, which country's not open, how do I sneak across the border?

Um and uh, you know, are there gonna be hotels, are there gonna be you know, beds, are there gonna be is there gonna be food, all that kind of stuff?

What documentation do I need?

And I just finally kept telling myself, it doesn't matter.

I don't care what I need to do.

I'm gonna I'm gonna cross this off my list.

And so that's really kind of where it all started in August of 2021.

I walked to the community of Santiago.

SPEAKER_01: Wow, wow, wow, wow.

Well, that's super amazing.

And and I have to go back though to to what you were saying.

And it's something that that I really harp on a lot in the podcast or or with where I work as a life coach, is this characteristic of identifying who we are.

And I love that you brought that up because it is so easy, as you said, for us to when somebody asks, you know, who we are or whatever, it's immediately, you know, oh, what do you do?

What do you do for work?

Where do you work?

And so we're immediately, it's kind of like irrelevant of who we are.

It's more of what we do for work.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: You know?

Yeah, exactly.

And then the what what I say is that that's what I do to sell, that's what I do to sell my labor, right?

And I don't I don't want to be known for how I sold my labor.

And it's really super hard when you're a teacher, when you're a nurse, when you're in these uh a pastor or whatever it is, and you're in these professions where people are constantly are saying to you, Oh, that must be so rewarding.

Well, yeah, but some days are really crap.

You know, some days, some days not so much, you know, when when you got kids yelling at you and walking out of your classroom and you can't get your job done, you know, because because people are dealing with their own traumas and all that kind of stuff.

And so, you know, and then and nurses, you know, and so it part of it was for me too, is that I say I sell 40 hours or 50 hours, you know, with with my situation, it was for I sell 40 hours of my of my time, but it's so much of that was you know, outside of that 40 hours was you're tired and you come home and you don't want to do the things that you want to do, and you you your brain is engaged in, you know, for for hours with what you did that day and what the next day is going to bring.

And it just really, I think it all boils down to me is this this there's a lie that corporate America and institutions are are perpetrating right now, is they they all tell you they want you to have work-life balance.

They all tell you you want to have work-life balance.

Oh, you need how can we help you have work-life balance?

Well, the bottom line is that's a lie because if I sell you 40 hours, it is.

I mean, Kevin, it is it's an absolute lie.

If I sell you 40, and if I'm lucky to sleep for 45, that's that's 85.

And if I've got 165 in the in the week to deal with, that leaves me with 80.

And so there's no way that 80, I don't care what kind of crazy math you use, and maybe there's some quantum physics guy out there that can prove me wrong, but there's no way that 80 equals 40.

Yep.

It it can never balance.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

No, I I mean I love it.

I I I agree with you 100%.

100%.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

And so so what I like to talk about is work-life boundaries.

SPEAKER_01: Okay.

SPEAKER_03: You know, where are the work-life boundaries?

And no corporation or institution is talking about that.

You know, they don't want you to have boundaries.

And if you do put up boundaries, you get punished for it.

Yeah.

And so, so it's, you know, I just think there's it's a mindset change of saying, okay, I want to I want to be known for those 80 hours instead of the 40 hours.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

So now the other thing that I'm super curious about is when we talk about what we want to be known for and in you instead of a teacher or whatever.

Some people may be like, you know what?

I want to be known for something, you know, if if I get to choose what I'm known for, I want to be Roger Williams, the man who created world peace.

I want to be the guy who who discovered something amazing.

What was it, though, that said, I want to be the guy who crosses things off his bucket list?

Why, why was that the thing that you decided, you know what, this is what I want to be known for.

SPEAKER_03: Oh that is I've never been asked that question before, Kevin.

So you may have to give me a second.

You know, part of it was that I I had been living a life that for the most part I've been known for for my work and was engaged in work where I helped other people do things.

And although that it's nice to be known for that, I wanted people to know me for something deeper.

And so and and the people that I interact with outside of work, right?

I mean, I've been lucky to work with some really great people over the years.

But as we all know, when you leave that job, those relationships tend to fade.

I mean, you're you're very, very lucky if you get to keep those relationships, right?

You had to work really hard at it because what you had in common wasn't who you are and what you do out for you know in your life or the people that you meet.

It's you were forced together for the most part to accomplish some task, right?

And so I uh like I said, I have people that that I love dearly that that I've worked with over the years and I've done with some of them and what I think is a superb job to maintain relationships with them.

But but it's I have friends that I've known for 35 years from mid from middle school, but that were best friends.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: They are gun-toting right-wing nut jobs, and I am a flaming retard snowflake liberal.

And, you know, so we have we've had to do a lot of work, you know.

It's uh it'd be easy to ghost people that you don't have certain things in common.

But the reality is that what we have in common is our love for one another, and and that we've been there through divorces and marriages and children and graduations and and parents' deaths and all those things that that I would, you know, I would bend over backwards for those guys.

And and I want to live a life, and I what I would ultimately want to be known for is those relationships that I've developed and the quality of them.

And that you know, I had a point in my life where I heard somebody say, you can only have 20 quality relationships, right?

You can only manage 20, you know, that includes family and everything.

You got 20.

And so I I I walled myself off with that for a long time.

And and in today's world, it that's just ridiculous, right?

We I have I have access to people from all over the world in an instant.

Yes.

Right?

I can I can talk to my friends in Italy and Spain as quickly as I can talk to about my, you know, with my friend that's you know touring through Costa Rica right now, as much as I can talk to my partner back home who who's in Seattle, right?

I mean, we we live in a communication age, and there's and it's one of the things that boggles my mind about social media.

It's like, how hard is it to click the like button?

Right?

It's like it's like how hard is that?

What are you giving up?

Like, how much did that like button cost you that you're putting value on it?

Right.

And for me, it boils down to I, you know, my socials, you know, I I I have a small group of friends on Facebook.

I have a decent following on Instagram, but to get likes from me on Instagram, we gotta have a relationship, right?

Yep.

And and are trying to maintain a relationship.

And so if I see something of yours, I'm gonna like it, whether I like it or not, right?

I mean, it's not about liking the post.

It's about letting that person know, hey, I see you.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Well, and what's so funny about this is I literally have this conversation with people who who, you know, in terms of like me like growing on social media, like my my business account for the podcast, for my life coaching.

You know, it's all about you, you, you know, you want to get the post, get engagement so that way it's seen by more people.

And so I'll literally have people who will be like, oh yeah, yeah, you know, I see your posts all the time.

I love your stuff.

And I'm like, why just hit the like button?

Help a brother out, man.

Like is it so dumb?

Do you realize that social media, the only way it's like hitting the like button is kind of like waving at me?

Wave at me, say something, you know?

SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't cost, it doesn't cost them anything, and the algorithm judges you by judges you by that, right?

I mean so it's like, yeah, help some, you know, I get it.

You know, and so there's things, like I said, there are things I don't like.

You know, I'm I'm probably I'm probably not gonna, you know, like my right-wing nut jobs because, you know, whatever meme he he throws up.

But uh, and he knows that, right, right.

I'll like anything else.

Post about your kids, post about your wife, post about your dog.

I don't, you know, I got you all day long, you know.

And so that just, and so it's so it's not just about for me, it's not just about you know, growing my socials or or being well known or anything like that.

But when the universe puts people in front of me and they're good people, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to maintain those relationships.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And if it's not reciprocated, it's not.

That's fine.

People's choices, I get it.

You know, I walked the Camino to Santiago, and you know, you're kind of forced to be very communal, which is one of the reasons why I did it.

And so I was with a with a friend I had walked with in Pampalona, Spain a couple of weeks ago, and he said, we were talking about the Camino, and he said, he said, Can I tell you something?

I said, Yeah.

He goes, he goes, I don't understand how it just he didn't say I don't understand.

He goes, he goes, it it was really weird to me that like you can't remember any of the city names, but you remember everybody that you walked with.

SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03: And and I said, Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, because that's why I was there.

Some people walk it for different reasons, and I get it, but I was there to meet people and build relationships.

I was in Costa Rica about three weeks ago, and I crashed two pilgrims who had walked with us.

I crashed their wedding.

And there were six other pilgrims there.

And the night before we crashed the my partner and I crashed the wedding, we had them all over to eat, to dinner, and I fixed them a Costa Rican meal.

And, you know, it's like it's not as hard as everybody makes it out to be, right?

Yeah.

And and and I have my circle, right?

I've got I've got my partner and some of her family members, some of my family members, and I've got five or six guys that are ride or die.

And they would, you know, they would do anything for me, and I would do anything for them.

And and so those I put I pour more energy into those relationships for sure.

But but it doesn't take a second to like somebody's post and say, hey, that's a cool thing you're doing, whatever.

And then you know, we'll have a couple of lines of chat, and then I might not talk to that person for five or six weeks.

That's okay.

Yeah.

But it's the quality of the interaction when you have it.

And so I just I I want to be known for that.

And and part of that is, as I told you before, we started taping, was um my dad just passed away two days ago.

And part of this is about my dad's legacy, and not that he was you you don't know him, though most of your listeners don't know him, but he had a really hard childhood.

His parents were very unaffectionate and and distant, and it was very hard for him.

And but he was his superpower was getting to know people and making them feel special.

And and growing up, I could see that.

And and so for me, all I want to do is is keep dad's legacy alive.

And so I've been getting lots of notes and comments from from friends and stuff, and I just said, and for those that didn't know my dad who had never met him, I said, I want you to know that part of the reason why we're having this conversation right now is because you know dad through me, and he has affected you.

And I and I want you to know that that's that's the reason why, right?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: What he did.

I mean, he wasn't perfect for you know, my kids are gonna listen and go, grandpa wasn't that great.

And I'm like, he he there were times and there was stuff, but at the bottom line was he was a good man and he and he treated the people that he met well.

And it I just want to be, I just want to, if I can be half of that, I'd be a happy person when it's all saying yeah, no, no doubt, man.

SPEAKER_01: No doubt.

And and you know, I couldn't help but think the whole time that you were talking, you're talking about the power of relationships and all of this.

I go back to something that I say, kind of almost a a motto, whatever you want to say it is the things that mean the most in life are the experiences had or the relationships made along the way.

SPEAKER_03: Period.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a big fan of that.

That's truly it, man.

If if at the end of the day, if at the end of our our time here on life, that's what we want to look back, and that's what really matters.

SPEAKER_03: Yep.

SPEAKER_01: And when I listen to your story, and I even take even just just one little glimpse of your story, talking about doing this 490-mile you know, hike, you said it's the experience and the relationships made along the way.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: You know, and just how that that's that's what life is all about, and I love it.

SPEAKER_03: And and it's you know, the hard the hardest thing for me was re-entry from the Camino.

Like you're out there for 30 some days walking every single day, hanging out with these new group of people that you met, and and everybody's bonding and connecting through the same experience.

And like I said, I have lots of friends that that I still communicate with and hang out with at different levels.

And my partner walked the last five days with me, and she's she and I had these constant conversations, those five days of how do you take this experience and what it does and what it what it means and put take it to the real world, right?

How do you how how do you transition from this to, you know, because because on the Camino, if you're at a at a bar getting a Spanish omelet and a cafe con leche, you can talk to the person next to you and it's no big deal, right?

And you go into Starbucks in Seattle and you try to start talking to somebody, they're they're what does this person want from me?

Yeah, weird.

What does this person want from me?

You know, and so I you know, I had to grasp that the that that event, and there's probably lots of others like it, that that it's there, it's not the norm, right?

I hate when I came home, I had journaled my journey on my Instagram account the whole way, and I I made a reel at one point, which was just basically a slideshow of all the you know of all the selfies that I had taken.

With these people that I met along the way.

And I showed it to a person at work who's a friend and known for four or five years.

And when she was done watching it, she looked at me and she goes, I've never seen you that happy.

And so, and it really made me sad, right?

I mean, I mean, I was glad that I had the experience, and that was great, but but I and so I walked away from that conversation.

I said, I don't want anyone to ever meet Roger Williams not in that state.

And that's a choice, right?

I mean, that's a choice you have to make every single freaking day to get out of bed and say, I'm not gonna let anybody meet me that doesn't meet me like that.

Meet me in that space, in that mindset, and that attitude.

And and I just I just think that the you know we could solve a lot of problems all over the world, you know, even back up even back in the States, if people just that's kind of the way they looked at things.

SPEAKER_01: And so of course, and and that's where I think that kind of goes back to my question earlier that that has brought on this conversation about why, out of all the things that you can put down, why you know a bucket bucket list cross your offer, you know, is it kind of comes back to that the fact of what is it not only that I enjoy doing, but what brings out the best part of me while doing it.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's it's yeah, it can't be a bucket list can't be a competition, right?

It's it's not about and that for Americans it's super hard, but it's it's not it's it's it's not about what I've checked off and what you haven't checked off, or or I get I checked that off before you, right?

It's if that's what you're doing, that's that's just fruitless.

It's not gonna, it's it's it'll never produce the joy that you want.

So a lot of things on my bucket list, and everybody's is different, and then that's and I think that that's great, you know, and I and I'm happy for people that are really excited about the things that are on there that they're gonna check off.

But part of it for me is that most of the things on my list are pretty communal.

I have that made that I made that specific choice, whether that's going to the music fest or you know, the festivals that I want to go to, or it's being uh trail angel on the AT or the Pacific Crest Trail or the Continental Divide Trail, you know, for a week just helping out hikers.

But most of my things wind up being at some level very communal.

And that and that was intentional, right?

That I don't I don't want to just say I went to Mexico City, right?

I want to take my son to Mexico City with me and and we'll go watch a triple-A uh lucha libre card at at the arena Mexical.

Like that would be like that's something for me and my son that to bond over as well as this you know experience of being with all these people enjoying this, you know, this activity.

And and so so for me that's that's you know, intentional.

There's some intentionality behind creating a list in that way.

Not everyone's gonna do that.

I get that, and that's fine.

I don't judge people's lists and I and uh because I don't want anybody to judge mine, right?

Yeah.

And so so yeah, but I think it's for me, it's it's trying to be as communal as possible, whether that's with one person or or uh you know a group of 10 or 20, it doesn't matter.

I want the things that I cross off to be intentional.

Absolutely communal.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.

So talking about this bucket list, do you have things listed in order of importance, or do you are they just thrown into the bucket and you you pull one out, don't really matter if it was number one or number 10?

SPEAKER_03: That strategy would not work for me.

unknown: Okay.

SPEAKER_03: It may work for somebody else.

And I would, if that does, I would encourage them to do that.

You know, I I intentionally sat down.

Uh, you know, part of it for me was that I had these things in my head, right, before the heart attack that I'm like, I want to do this and I'd like to do this, and I've always thought about doing this.

And so part of what happened after the my mind for my mindset for that was to say, okay, I'm I'm never gonna do these things if I don't put them on a list.

Like physically write them down and not just type them in the computer because those files get lost.

But I'm writing this, I'm writing this down and I'm gonna put it on my mirror so that every single morning when I wake up, I see it and we're gonna get reminded of it.

Because the because the bottom line is it's not a, it's and I don't want this to sound degrading, but it's not a dream board.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: Right?

That has definitely has a place for people to want to use that that kind of tool.

It's not it's not a uh manifestation list, right?

Then I'm just gonna think about it for all the time all the time.

The purpose of creating a bucket list is to cross stuff off.

SPEAKER_01: You created a to-do list.

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

And and there's a lot of I know that there's a there's a TED talk out there that talks about how you shouldn't call the bucket list because then that you know you're talking about the end of life and all that emotion.

I'm like, I don't care.

Yeah, call it a life goal list, call it a life goal list.

I don't really care.

You know, it's fine.

Whatever it takes, for me, it's like whatever it takes for you to start living out your life in an intentional format.

I don't care what the format is, right?

So so to get back to your question, my list, I I just put everything on my list that I wanted to do.

And so then as I see it each day, I can decide, right?

So some things on the list, like the Camino, are very expensive and very time consuming, right?

Yep.

To do.

So I have to plan that out in a large scale level to be able to say, okay, I got enough money and I've got to save money each month, you know, and I've got to plan things out and I've got to get hotel rooms and I get train tickets and plane tickets and you know, all that kind of stuff.

And during this pandemic, it's which, you know, which form do I need to fill out?

SPEAKER_01: Yep.

SPEAKER_03: So that's very labor intensive.

Now, there are other things on my list, like I just got knuckle tattoos, right?

Okay.

And so so that that is something that I've wanted to do for a long time.

It doesn't take a lot to get an appointment with somebody close by.

Uh lots of tattoo parlors in the Seattle area.

And so it doesn't take a whole lot and it's not that expensive, in my opinion.

It's not that expensive.

You know, it was like 200 bucks or something like that, so it didn't have to save up a long time.

So that was something that at the moment I'm like, okay, I think I have$200 to spare, so I'm gonna go do this.

Uh it's something I've always wanted to do.

I've been very intentional about what I want to, what I wanted put on me.

And so I, you know, that was something I could just do.

Somebody else wants to like put all their put all their you know bucket list items into a into a brown paper bag and pull one out each day and go for it.

I mean, uh, hey, more power to you.

I mean, if that's what it takes, then I I say go for it.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

Okay, so everyone's gonna kill me if I don't ask the knuckle tattoos.

Tell me what what what is this?

What does it look like?

Give me the details.

Yeah, how bad did it hurt?

You know.

SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.

So uh I've been tattooing on my body for probably 27 years, and it was a big step for me to put the tattoo someplace that people could see them, that the that at any point that were uncovered, right?

You tattoo on your upper arm and no one ever sees it.

You tattoo on your you know hip, nobody ever sees it.

So I mean, unless you have a snippet other.

So so it was a huge step to me just to start tattooing places where where people could see it if I had a short-sleeved shirt on.

My parents were are very conservative people, we're conservative people.

And my mom said once to me when I after I got my first tattoo, you know, I what I always do with my mom is like say, Hey mom, you see that guy with that tattoo?

What do you think?

And get her opinion, right?

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And when I when I asked that question about my first tattoo, she goes, Yeah, tattoos are only for truckers and trailer parkers, you know.

And it's just like okay, well, it's not 1950 anymore.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly.

SPEAKER_03: So there was some stigma behind it, right?

The of just even uh going you know, below the elbow, there was some stigma, you know, having job interviews, all that kind of stuff.

And a lot of that's going away, which is great.

But you can literally, unless you're wearing gloves and it's you know 16 degrees outside, you're not hiding your knuckles.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: Exactly.

That and your that in your face, you're not, and possibly your neck, you're not hiding that from anybody, right?

You have to wear a scarf, I guess.

But your face and your knuckles, it's it's it's it's out there.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And so I I hope I can say this, but I always thought it was badass.

SPEAKER_01: Okay.

SPEAKER_03: A thing to do because it is painful.

It is it is a commitment from that standpoint.

One of the most one of the most painful places to do it.

And but I spent a long time.

This is a long answer to your question, but I spent a long time.

If I was gonna do it, what would it be?

Right?

Because if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna make that commitment, I need to, you know, it's gotta, it's gotta, it's gotta be strong.

unknown: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And so I got traditional tattoo letters across my knuckles that says do no harm.

SPEAKER_01: Love it.

Love it.

Yeah, that's awesome.

That's uh I thought it was gonna be something maybe ugly, but no, that's actually really nice.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.

And uh the nice thing on my Instagram account is I've gotten some really good positive responses of people like, yeah, man, that's usually like the place where people give you the bird, you know.

Yeah, exactly.

So putting that on there, that's hardcore too, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

So yeah, so it took me a long time to come up with it, and then it took me even a longer time to make the choice to do it.

So, but but crossing off the list was not really that hard, you know, because of course, because like I said, it took them an hour, uh it was 200 bucks, and you know, you move on.

So, so it's yeah, everybody's list's different, and it's the whole the whole thing is is that just make a list that you can that that are of achievable things, right?

Yes, yes.

And so you talked about it earlier, you said you know, whole somebody wants to put on their list world piece and all the things, and they're like, that's great.

And the example that I gave, and I always get pushback from this, but it's absolutely the truth.

My whole life I've loved Saturday Live, and I and I enjoy the show very, very much.

And it was, it's always been like this dream in my head.

Every time I watch it and the cold open happens, and somebody says live from New York, it's Saturday Night Live.

I'm like, oh man, that would be so much fun.

That would be so epic to be that person or in a group of people that's that sat there in the skit while the cameras rolling live on Saturday and saying live from New York is Saturday Night Live.

Yes.

That is not on my buff list.

And the reason it's not on my bucket list is because there are less than a thousand people that have ever said those words.

And so the likelihood, unless Dwayne the Roth Johnson and I become really, really good friends and he puts me in a movie as his sidekick, this is not gonna happen, right?

And even that is like, you know, super unbelievably, you know, possible.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: And so I don't put things like that on my bucket list because I want to be the whole point is to cross them off.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: The whole point is to put a red line through it, put a check next to it, whatever it is that you do, the whole point is to complete the task.

And so, and so for me, the the antithesis of of that item would be that I would really like to be an extra on a set on a Star Wars movie or TV show.

Put me under the alien makeup, put a put a stormtrooper helmet helmet on me.

I don't care if I'm seen.

I just want to be able to say that I was in a Star Wars show.

And if I wanted to, and at some point I probably will, I I know people.

I I I know how the entertainment industry works.

I know people in LA.

I, you know, I could probably make that happen if I worked at it really hard.

Yes.

And there's gonna come a day when I'm saying, I I need to get that off my list.

It's gonna be there long enough for I'm gonna say, like, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna make this happen.

Yeah.

And so, and so for me, that one is achievable at some level.

Is it a stretch?

You better believe it.

It's a stretch, but uh, but it is achievable.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And so, and so I I I just that's one of my things for when I talk to people about this, is that just make it achievable because because the last thing you want to do is have a buffet list where you're not crossing anything off of it.

Yep.

It's just sitting there and you can't, you can't do it.

That's not that is not the intent of of uh to make one if you if you're gonna make it.

Yeah.

So I so I think it things that are achievable are are definitely need to be on your list.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.

And I mean, what what I kind of get out of this is it's something that should empower you, excite you, not make you depressed.

Right.

You know, right.

I mean, it it's you're you're doing this not because you have to, because you want to, you know?

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: So yeah, because it brings you joy, right?

You talked about me, you talked about me being on an adult gap year, and you know, people in America don't understand what a gap year is, let alone an adult gap year.

And so the easiest thing for me to say is I'm just taking a year to make to do things that make me happy.

I'm only doing things that make me happy.

That's it.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

So that brings me to a question I have for you.

So did you embark on this gap year as a way of so that it gave you the time to cross off things on the bucket list?

Or is that totally unrelated?

SPEAKER_03: No, I don't think it's unrelated.

I don't think it's uh necessarily an impetus for doing it.

I I knew that so so, in my opinion, a gap year is structured.

You do things.

And for you know, high school students graduating and going to college, it it may be to get an internship and experience the world and find themselves.

For for a college graduate, it may be traditionally, it may be a time to sow your wild oats, you know, maybe learn some stuff, visit the world, and then go into workforce.

And so, and you know, and one of the things a lot of people don't know is Harvard, since like 1975, has been sending the same letter to every incoming freshman saying, if you want to take an adult gap year, we will hold your spot.

No way.

Yes.

That the that because it's so prominent in Europe for for students to do this.

And so, so for me, all that said, for me, it's not about finding myself.

I'm 52.

I've you know, had marriage, three kids, you know, been traveling, lived in lots of different places in the States, you know, I I I kind of know who I am, right?

So I'm so I'm not out here trying to search who I am in any way and trying to find myself, but I am definitely trying to do things that make me happy.

And part of that was not working, and part of that was, you know, I got asked the question the other day is like, you took how much money out of your your retirement fund to do this?

Do you know how much money that's lost?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, well, you know how much is making me happy?

SPEAKER_01: Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: So I'm not gonna have I'm not gonna have any regrets at the end of this because doing that and doing the things that I'm doing make me happy.

Yeah.

And it's not a happiness that's that's ethereal or or fleeting.

It's I'm happy, and these things are gonna make me happy, and I'm making, like you said earlier, memories and relationships that are gonna last a lot longer than that money.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.

That's what I started to say.

I mean, you want to talk about making an investment, or this is an investment, an investment that's gonna gain you so many just making this life, living this life like it was meant to be lived, you know?

And I mean, I find it truly inspiring and motivating for for myself and for anyone of just this principle of of you know, even even if you're not a position to to take a gap year, but yeah.

When you're not having to do the things that you gotta do on your daily basis, is being sure that you're living.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the that's exactly it.

I don't I'm not trying to promote everyone to run out, take a gap year, and raid their retirement funds, but I but it again it goes back to that.

It's those 80 hours.

We all got them.

Yeah, we all have those 80 hours.

And and some people might um some people might say, well, I I got to work two jobs, some, so I lose another 20 hour work two through 30 hour jobs or whatever it is.

People gotta do what they gotta do.

I get it.

But there's there's a there's an amount of time that you have in the week that that I think is valuable to look at and say, how am I using this time?

And and for me, that's part of the gap years.

How am I gonna use this time?

So even though it's it I'm not finding myself, it needed to be structured.

That's why I'm taking three months to travel around.

And during that time, I I'm trying to write a book and I'm you know revisiting relationships I've built in the past.

And, you know, I mean, it it is structured.

I'm I've had this podcast that I'm you know making sure is is ongoing and and doing well.

And so it's so it's it is structured, right?

You know this.

A lot of people you know, a lot of people think the internet is easy, right?

They think, oh, it's easy to be an influencer, it's easy to be a podcaster.

It is not, right?

And I would have this question when I would have this conversation with my high school students all the time because they're so engaged and like, oh, I want to be an influencer, and I want even more to sponsor me.

And I'm like, you have no idea how much of one viral video, one viral reel is not gonna get you a sponsorship, right?

Yeah you have to you have to hustle in this.

And so I my heart bleeds for anybody that tries to do a podcast on a part-time basis because that is hard work.

Getting guests, doing editing, you know, I mean, yeah, getting everything uploaded, a promotion.

It is not easy.

And so, so taking this gap here, it's like I I had tried multiple times on the internet to figure out my niche to to you know use it to have an income and all that kind of stuff, and failed two or three times, you know, miserably.

And when I decided to do the podcast, I went to a friend of mine who listens to a lot of podcasts, and I said, What are you thinking about this?

And he said, Oh, it's perfect.

And I said, Why?

And he said, Because it's you.

He said, You meet people you don't know and get them to tell you your story.

I've watched you do it in person, sitting next to you.

I've watched you do it.

This is what you do, and so because it's what you do, and I'm loving it so much, it it's uh success is 10 people a week for me, right?

I mean, although I'm well past that.

It's just like, you know, I I could I just want people to hear other people's stories about them crossing stuff off their list so they can get inspired and empowered to go out and do it.

And and the success is just the success for me is that I love doing it, you know.

Anybody listens to it, doesn't listen to it, you know.

I'm I'm good.

I, you know, it's out there, it'll affect somebody someday.

And you know, and and I and I just love it.

I love having the conversations with people, just like it sounds like you love having conversations with people, and especially for me about this topic.

And and I just I really love it.

And so success is I'm already successful, right?

Yeah.

But it's not, it's not easy.

It is work, right?

I had to tell my mom and my sister, I'm like, you know, this isn't a vacation, right?

I am working, you know, I'm trying to write a book, I've got this podcast, you know, and and just people just their perceptions is that, oh you just do that in your part-time.

It's like yeah.

Power to those that try, but but it's, you know, it's um, yeah, and but I love it and uh and I'm super excited about it.

SPEAKER_01: That yeah, exactly.

No, re remind me the name of your podcast.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's called the Crossing It Off Podcast.

Okay.

It's available, it's available absolutely everywhere, even at this point.

Uh uh Facebook mobile, you can listen to it on Facebook Mobile from your phone.

But if you just Google the the Crossing It Off podcast, you can find it just about anywhere.

SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.

That's awesome.

Have there been any guests who you've interviewed that that is kind of like surprised you at what they told you about what they crossed off their list?

SPEAKER_03: Well, it's not surprised because that's that's you know, the whole point is that we have different people every week that that talk about one item.

So each week is different.

Um, you know, like I've had a woman on who raised a million dollars for charity through her artwork.

I've had a woman on that learned how to tap dance at the age of 60.

I had someone coming up episode where he wanted to get Arnold Schwarzenegger's autograph.

And so that's what we talk about.

We talk about how did you do that?

Why did you want to do it, and how did you do it.

And the the interesting thing, I guess, I would say to answer your question is that for the format of the show, before before I sign off, I ask them, what's something on your bucket list that's completely different than what we've talked about?

And what's the next thing that you're gonna cross off your bucket list?

The hope is that as people listen to the to an episode, is that they really get engaged with this person and go, yeah, I want to know that too.

What's the next thing?

And that's where the surprises come in for me, right?

So my first episode, I had somebody that walked the Camino because I had walked the Camino, and I said, What's on our butt on your butt, your next on your bucket list and what's on your, you know, what's something different?

And she said, Well, a lot of my stuff is hiking, but I'd really like to do the 88 temples in Japan.

And I was like, What's that?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Tell me all about that.

Yeah.

It's three months, it's a three month trek around this island, and you visit the A's 88.

Temples while as you go and you stay in traditional Japanese homes, and it's you know it's a thing.

And I'm just like, I've never heard of that before.

Yeah.

I need to see if that's something I want on my black list.

So uh it's not.

I've I've looked into it really heavily, and it's it's not as simple as just walking around on the beach.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03: It's a pretty hard track.

It's a pretty hard track from everything I've read.

SPEAKER_01: So yeah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03: That's not gonna happen.

But but it that's really where it comes in of just like these other things.

Yeah, I was interviewing a woman the other day about her getting her first tattoo over the age of 50.

And I asked, what's the next thing on your bucket list?

And she's like, uh, I want to learn to shoot.

I was like, That's so awesome.

Yeah, where did where am I that come from?

What's the no, not gonna talk about it?

I'm like, that's fine.

That was just like, okay, well, I didn't wouldn't have thought that that would be the next thing on your list.

So that's really where the surprises come in, is is the is the post portion.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you you know, man, that's that's the kind of stuff that makes life so cool is the people because every one of us are different.

And every one of us, even people who we think we know, we think we've got figured out, yeah, they're a unique person, you know?

And and it's not until you give them the time of day, you you took the time to hit the like button and you dove even deeper and got to know the person, and then you know, and that's what I've said, man, about this podcast.

The greatest thing about starting a podcast for me is that it's allowed me to meet people, sit down with them for an hour of people who otherwise I never even would have known existed.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And yet, the and yet conversations like my conversation with you today are truly life-changing.

And I'm like, and this is exactly why I'm here where I'm at.

Is because in my life's plan, God knew this is what I need right now.

And I love it.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm I'm with you to 100%, Kevin.

I you know, uh, would I love people to like subscribe to the to the show and listen to it every week?

Yeah, I think there's value in it.

I think that there's inspiration in the show.

I think that that even if something you wouldn't put on your list, the process people go through, you know, having that conversation about why and and how, I think can also affect what you put on your list.

Oh, I never thought about that.

I never, you know, I never thought about how something like that would be cool.

I don't want to do that, but maybe I'll do this.

And so I mean that would be fantastic.

But the other great thing is that I just want it to be a repository of resource, right?

That if you say I'm gonna walk the Camino de Santiago or or get somebody's autograph, you can Google that and come to the show and just listen to that episode.

That makes me happy just as much as anything else, right?

And uh, I mean probably even more so is because just being a resource for folks that we have in every show notes, we have three or four well, not only just the the guests information, so you can contact them and and figure out what they're doing, but also we have an area where it's like, hey, if you want to do this activity, here's some other resources for you to do it.

So it's it's it really is about empowerment, right?

And the bottom line.

And if I can help one person figure out how they're gonna cross that item off their bucket list through interviewing somebody that's done it or something similar, you know, every day of the week.

You know, I'm not every day of the week, that'd be a whole lot of work, but once a week's good.

Yeah, and the other thing to go along with what you said is that, and I've said it before during this, is that I don't prejudge people's bucket lists.

So I so I talk to people and I, you know, I I about being guests, and they're like, well, you know, it's not that big of a deal.

It's it is a big deal.

Are you passionate about it?

Were you intentional about it and were you passionate about it?

Well, yeah.

Then it's a big deal.

I have a I have a friend that I've been hoping can come on the podcast.

She's in her 30s now.

Holy call, holy cow.

She's in her 30s, and at one point in her life, she realizes that she was getting into all these really bad relationships because she wanted a kid and a partner to raise a child, and she finally realized that it wasn't worth it and that she could still have a baby and raise a child.

So she went to Spurbay, got a donor, and and she has her son now, and she's loving it, right?

And it's like you're passionate about it, you're intentional about it, it's gonna impact somebody else.

And and just even if the it's not the same thing, not saying everybody should go around and get pregnant from a donor, but it's you know, whatever it is, it's like it's like I don't care if you've written, you know, you probably get solicitations from people say, Hey, can I be on your show?

And you get these lists of these CVs of all the books they've written and all, you know, all the things they've done, places they've spoken and all that stuff.

And it's like, tell me your tell me your story.

Tell me what is it that, you know, what what's that one thing that you're passionate about and that you were intentional of crossing off your list?

And then I get ghosted.

You know, it's just like, I don't know.

That's what this is about?

Yeah, that's what this is about.

Yeah.

So I don't know, I don't care who you are, I don't care your status, I don't care your your social media following.

Um that stuff doesn't mean anything.

I don't care what it is.

If you if it's you're into it and and it was intentional, bring it on.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Well, listen, I got one last question for you.

SPEAKER_03: All right.

SPEAKER_01: What's next on the bucket list?

SPEAKER_03: That I'm currently working on, or something uh or something else.

Right now, actually, I mean, uh it's a goal, it's on the list is that I want to have uh an episode of the show for a whole full year.

Uh as you probably know being in this industry.

I think there's like 2.7 million podcasts available listed to or something like that.

But if you break down the ones that are active, it's more like 700,000 or 800,000.

So I want the show to be successful and follow through and discipline have not always been my strong suits, let's just say.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: And to to do this and for it to be impactful and for more people to be able to hear it, I I I knew that that's something that I was really gonna have to work on.

So even to the point where when I knew I was coming on this uh three-month journey that I'm traveling around the world, I actually went ahead and recorded enough episodes so that I didn't have to do that and edited them.

And I hired a virtual assistant, and she does all the promotional stuff and helps me with the the Instagram posts and stuff because I didn't want that that stuff I didn't want it to fall off, and I also didn't want it to affect what I was trying to do on this trip.

So that's one of them.

I think the other one is is that I've had a a couple of books in my head for a real long time, and um I just want to get them out.

I've whittled it down to just one right now.

I was planning on trying to do two, but circumstances have availed themselves that I need to focus on one, and and so I I want to write this book.

Uh and I've been working on it for the last couple weeks, and you know, if anybody reads it, you know, I become a New York Times bestseller or I saw a million copies, I really don't care.

I just want to get it out of my head.

I think it's not a lot of artists and different mediums go through that.

I just need to get out of my head.

Yeah.

So that will hopefully be crossed off here in about six weeks, seven weeks.

So yeah, I'm I'm excited about that and just kind of focusing on this this time.

And when I when I get that crossed off, I'll I'll start looking to seeing what's next.

I I guess I guess I can also say visiting all 50 states is one that I know will will high wound up being crossed off this year as well.

So I've got two left.

Okay.

I only have two left.

SPEAKER_01: So uh Oh, what two do you still have?

SPEAKER_03: Alaska and North Dakota.

SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.

That North Dakota.

I wasn't expecting North Dakota.

SPEAKER_03: It's one of those things, like, why would um no offense to the people in North Dakota, but it's just like, why would I have ever, you know, I-90 doesn't go through there.

They could have like looped I-90 up to hit them in, and I would have been okay, but you know, so I have to intentionally go to North Dakota and I'll I'll have them all crossed off.

But um that that is coming up and is will be accomplished this year, so which I'm excited about.

SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.

Well, well, man, I have to say you're one of the most awesome, unique people I've ever met.

Because I thought and I thought to myself, I'm like, wow.

I'm like, teacher, knuckle tattoos, bucket list, crosser offer, inspiring guy, soon-to-be author, world traveler.

I'm like, this this guy, he's all over the place, and he's just so awesome.

SPEAKER_03: So the only thing I can respond to that, Kevin, is that that is all done by one step, taking that first step.

And and I'm not special.

I I appreciate your comments.

I'm not special.

I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm no Superman.

All I did was I chose to take one step.

And and that's it's again, it's waking up in the morning every morning and saying, I'm gonna take that step.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna take my shot, I'm gonna take that step and I'm gonna do it, and figuring out whatever that one step is, whether it's buying a plane ticket to to Spain to walk the Camino, or it's going to the grocery store to get a bunch of ingredients so that you can learn a new recipe.

It's just one step.

SPEAKER_01: Well, man, thank you so much.

You are a uh a breath of fresh air to me, to this podcast.

And I just I appreciate you so much for taking the time to be on the show today.

SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm I'm very honored to be here, and this has been a great conversation.

I've done several of these, and uh this has been one of my favorites.

So I appreciate the time, Kevin.

SPEAKER_01: Awesome, awesome.

And uh for you listening today, you know, I think the biggest takeaway from my conversation with Roger today is for you to remember what we said earlier.

This life is meant to be lived, so get out and live it.

And maybe that all starts by you uh grabbing a pad and pen, going ahead and jotting down some of those things that you've been thinking about, dreaming about.

Create that bucket list and make it into a to-do list.

Because uh a bucket list, it's supposed to be stuff that you cross off, as Roger told us earlier.

So, with that said, I hope that you've enjoyed another amazing guest here of the podcast, always with the intent that it inspires you to get out and enjoy life, no matter what obstacles may be standing in the way.

And that's the lowdown with Kevin Low.

I hope today's episode inspired you, motivated you, and excited you to get out and enjoy life, no matter what obstacles may be standing in the way.