The Rise. The Fall. The Rebound of NCAA Basketball Coach Randy Brown!

How I became blind at just 17 years of age.

They always want to know how I've done it and how I've kept smiling all along the way.

Well, I just focus to focus my attention.

Hey, what's happening?

Welcome back to the podcast.

This is episode number 79 here on The Lowdown with the Low.

As in life, today's episode is gonna go through the highs and the lows.

Because with today's guest, we're diving into the nitty-gritty.

We're gonna talk about somebody being on the highest of highs and then going right into the lowest of lows of life.

I have a feeling that you probably can relate in your own life because I like to think of life as a book.

And this book is separated into chapters.

And some of the chapters are awesome, they're exciting.

Some of the chapters bring us joy, they have us laughing, while other chapters they bring us to our knees.

They leave us crying.

And we wish so badly that the page could just turn and a new chapter could begin.

That's what we call life.

And today's guest, when you first hear his name, his title, what he's done in his life, you may think to yourself, wow, what could possibly be wrong in his life?

I mean, it is Coach Randy Brown, former NCAA men's basketball coach.

But the truth is, the higher you are, the farther you have to fall.

And in my interview with Randy, I didn't realize just where this interview was gonna go because I didn't understand the depth of his story.

And what came out of this interview was, I believe, a really amazing conversation between two guys sitting at a local coffee shop talking about life.

Randy sharing his life story with me and ultimately with you today.

If you're into basketball, especially college basketball, you're gonna love it.

Or if you're somebody who has gone through some hard stuff, some stuff that you're embarrassed about, stuff you're ashamed about, I think you're gonna really get something out of today's interview, also.

Like I said, we talk about all the things in this episode.

I had a hard time trying to figure out how do I go from what is kind of a serious conversation had with Coach Randy Brown that I'm telling you about right now, to something as silly and crazy as socks.

Well, here's the truth of the matter.

Even in life, even in the seriousness of life, we all gotta have a little fun sometimes.

And that's why I love the sponsor of today's podcast.

That is John's Crazy Socks.

You met John and his dad Mark in the previous episode of the podcast, episode 78, where you got to hear their story and all about how John's Crazy Socks came about.

Well, now today, they are a proud sponsor here on the podcast.

And well, John, he has Down syndrome.

But when he was getting ready to graduate high school, he knew that he didn't want to fall victim and be another number of people who are disabled who are also unemployed.

He wanted to be an entrepreneur and he wanted to go into business with his dad.

And well, there you have it.

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That's all capital letters L-O-W-E-D-O-W-N 10 for 10% off your order, or you can also just use the special link that is provided in the show notes of today's episode.

So whether you're ready to rock a pair of crazy socks or not, which I must encourage you, you really should.

It would make your day a little bit more special.

Plus, it's helping out an awesome company like John's Crazy Socks.

It's time for me to introduce you to Coach Randy Brown.

SPEAKER_01: Well, fortunately for me, I grew up the son of a sports writer, uh a very accomplished award-winning sports writer.

My dad, Bob Brown, was uh in charge of the sports for the Fort Dodge Messenger, and we're in Northwest Iowa.

And so, you know, as I tell people, I grew up in gymnasiums and fishing boats.

Those were kind of the those were the two times I spent the most time with my father growing up, myself and my two brothers.

And so my love for basketball probably came from the intoxicating smell of popcorn, the sound of the ball bouncing on the floor, people cheering, and just the competitiveness of it.

So it was a special thing to me.

It wasn't just a game.

We went to a game, and it really became a special thing.

And I can honestly go back to about being eight years old, and I've I've really tried to really tried to figure out when this was.

I'm saying eight was is really close.

And a real close friend of ours and their family, Dutch Useman, was the head basketball coach at Fort Dodge High School.

And as a youngster, about an eight-year-old, I was at practice one day and just stood kind of against the wall underneath the basket, and I watched him and I listened to him, and I watched how he had command of those players and that team.

And it was mesmerizing to me.

And I just thought he was the greatest thing ever.

And I and I still do.

He passed a couple years ago.

But so at that point, I remember I seriously remember thinking, well, basketball is really cool.

And you got a coach and you got players.

Of course, all I wanted to be is a player for the Fort Dodge Dodgers.

That was my that was a big dream of mine, and uh uh fortunately I was able to do that.

But there was a point, Kevin, too, where uh someone, probably my dad, said, Well, you know, Dutch is the athletic director at the high school and the basketball coach.

And we had this conversation.

I remember him saying something, and and I said, Do you mean he gets paid for playing basketball or teaching guys how to play basketball?

And I mean, that was a huge moment for me.

But I thought, well, well, maybe I could do that.

Maybe I could teach basketball, and they'd pay me, and that would be my job.

I mean, you know, when you're young, you start putting stuff together a little bit.

And I I'm telling you, on that day, whenever that was, after who knows exactly when it was, I don't remember.

But that was huge.

And so I followed that pattern and had a tremendous, tremendous love for basketball.

And I carried it all the way through junior high and and played in high school.

And for very fortunately for me, because gravity was getting the best of me, um, I uh I played two years of junior college, and the junior college I played at was right here in town.

Iowa Central Community College.

So it worked out awesome.

And then I went on to school at the University of Iowa, and I'll also throw this in there.

I my guy, my idol, Kevin, was Pistol Pete Maravich.

And in fact, I've got pictures of me playing in junior high, and I had the old gray socks, the floppy gray socks, and I mean he was the guy.

And when I was 15 years old, I got a chance to meet him in Kansas City at the old Mulebach Hotel.

I was with my dad, he took me down.

That's when it was the Kansas City, Omaha Kings, and Tiny Archibald, and had a good team, and I met Pistol Pete, and I was over by the elevators because there were other kids by the elevators, and and you know what he says?

He says, Hey guys, let's go upstairs so we can talk.

And I'm thinking, what the doors open, we get in, and there were like four other guys about my age, a little bit older than me.

We step in that elevator, and I'm telling you, you talk about I mean, I thought he looked 10 feet tall.

I mean, he just looked like a giant to me.

And sure enough, sixth floor, we get off, go in his room, and sit there, and gosh, I wish I could remember every word that was said, but I don't because I was in absolute awe.

And he asked me one question and I answered, and man, that was it.

And you talk about making an impact on a young guy, that sitting in that room with Pistol Pete.

Wow.

And so those are, you know, that's just an example of an experience I had.

I had a dad who, you know, like I said, was a sports writer, but understood my love for the game and and just wanted to further that as much as possible.

So that was one of the great experiences of my life.

And so from there I went to school to University of Iowa.

Lou Olson, the Naismith Hall of Fame basketball coach from the University of Iowa.

He was the coach at Iowa when I was in school there.

And I learned the fundamentals of the game by going to practice in the afternoon and bending an ear because it was hard to hear.

You could see it, but it was hard to hear what the coaches were saying.

But I got close enough where I could.

And that taking notes and soaking that in and then hanging out and talking to the assistants after the practice, that became my foundation.

And wouldn't you know, five years later, I get a call from Arizona, and I had pursued a graduate assistant program like mad.

And sure enough, it came to fruition five years later, and I got a call from Scott Thompson, Scott Thompson, the assistant coach at Arizona, and said that Luke wanted Scott to call me and offer me the graduate assistant position at the University of Arizona because he had left Iowa and gone to Arizona in 83.

This was 85.

And there's been no greater phone call.

And Lute Olson was uh more of an idol than he was a boss for me for the first year.

The second year I got a little used to it, but it was like, wow, I'm working for Lud Olson and because the the state loved him, and he was really uh just an unbelievable personality and a coach here in our state.

So that was the beginning of my college coaching career, which lasted for 20 years.

And so I hope that's a decent explanation of how I came to that point.

And I'm really excited to be able to tell you about what I'm doing right now because in my post-coaching career, I really took a good look at myself and said, how can I honor the profession that's been so good to me, the game of basketball, and to become a college coach?

I even became a college head division one coach.

And the odds of doing that for anybody entering college basketball is so small.

It's way less than 1%, I'm sure.

And so I got a chance to do all those things.

So grateful for all the wonderful head coaches and assistant coaches that I got a chance to be with.

And I thought, how can I give back?

And I thought, you know, how many young guys are out there that want to be a college coach that don't really know how to become a college coach?

Because there's no manual for it.

There aren't classes in college, there's no major for it.

There's it's something that people just try to figure out.

And so I created a very intensive, detailed mentoring program, elite coach mentoring, that I offer to coaches around the country.

This is back 15 years ago, about 15 years ago.

And so I've been doing it every day for the last 15 years, working with young coaches and some older coaches to get into the profession.

I'm and I'm very proud to say that over 130 of them were able to get their entry-level position into college basketball, Division 123, NAI Junior College, some overseas in international basketball.

And then of that 130, we've got eight that are in the NBA right now.

So they've been able to work their way into the into the big leagues.

And that's been my push.

That's been my my love for the game.

I just didn't want to drop it off at the corner and say, hey, it was a wonderful career and basketball's over and I'm going to move forward.

I can't do that.

It's so deeply entrenched into who I am.

And I don't beg to be a coach again because I feel like I'm I'm providing the respect for the game at the highest level I could possibly accomplish by working with and assisting others.

Way more than than being an active coach right now, just coaching one team, and it's it's too small of a scope.

And I love, love what I'm doing.

It is tremendous.

And Kevin, you know, that call I told you I got from Arizona being the greatest, maybe the greatest call ever.

I now get that call from my coaches.

And I say, I want to be the first call now.

When you find out that, and man, they make that call, and I am it just I about fall over.

I get goosebumps.

I'm so excited for them.

And just I I love the game.

I I I love the lessons that come from the game.

I love everything about it.

Like I said, smell of the popcorn, and and I've just been unbelievably gifted.

Yeah.

Uh in so many ways to have that opportunity.

I worked hard to get it and make it happen, but boy, it wouldn't have happened without others really helped me with some advice and how to do this, how to do that, and then really encouraged me to go for it because it's kind of a it's not a one in a million shot, but I'm just kind of using a kind of phrase people use.

You know, it it is.

It's a it's really a crapshoot.

And it's hard to do.

It's really hard to do.

And it's harder to stay in that profession than it is to get in, as hard as getting in is, because it's so competitive.

And you know, we're it's a sport, and college athletics is about winning and losing, and it's a business, and people don't understand that, but it's a business.

I moved and had seven jobs in 20 years because I wanted to be a head coach, and I kept bouncing around, but boy, it it can be really tough because once you get there, it's uh it's no time to get comfortable.

If so, you're not gonna be there long.

So that's a very long-winded explanation of of my uh of my pursuit of the game.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I I love it, and and and I must say, you know, kind of you know, to what you were saying earlier about you know what what you're doing now is the fact of I look at coaching and I look at basketball and I say, because what you did was not a career, you got to work in your passion.

Oh, and and and passion doesn't leave us, you know, and and so I look at that and I'm like I'm like you simply have just stepped into a new role in that passion.

Right, you know?

And and I mean, and there's not many people, unfortunately, who can say that their their career is their life, you know, this this true passion.

Right.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Boys you got that right.

SPEAKER_00: So now what so now what colleges did you coach at throughout those years?

SPEAKER_01: Well, prior to, I'll say this, prior to that great opportunity at the University of Arizona, I was a high school coach for five years.

Oh, okay.

And uh my first job was when I was an undergrad at Iowa while I was going to practice in the afternoons and and I'd run over to Regina High School and and I was uh uh like a volunteer assistant over there, which is really, really awesome.

Here I am, an undergrad college student, and I'm a high school basketball coach and JV coach, university assistant.

I mean, it was a world that as fun as college is, and then basketball on top of it.

And then, you know, Coach Olson took the Hawks to the 1980 Final Four.

Oh, wow.

And Hayden Fry, our newly named football coach that everybody recognizes that name now.

Hayden a year later went to the Rose Bowl in '81.

So I'm in school and we go to a Final Four and a Rose Bowl within about 14 months.

Crazy.

So my college experience was was off the charts.

So I was a high school coach for five years until I got that call.

So I started at the University of Arizona as a graduate assistant for two years.

And uh I did actually go to go to graduate school and got a degree somehow.

I don't remember much about it, but I think I had a potential somewhere.

I wasn't there for school for sure.

And then, you know, reality hit at that point, Kevin, because here the big time, you know, I was in the big time, I stepped right into it, and it was it was awesome, but it wasn't very realistic because I found out as I moved through my career, my next job was at Drake University, which ironically was back in Iowa, in Des Moines, Iowa.

So we're back in Iowa.

And I'm working for one of my favorite guys ever, Gary Garner, unbelievable coach.

And Coach Garner, unfortunately, when I got there, had one year left.

And he he was fired after his uh seventh year, which was my only one year with him.

So here I am for one year, and and coach loses his job and I'm back on the job market after a year.

And I go to the University of North Dakota up in Grand Forks, so I'm now I'm up an hour from Canada, and uh unforgiving weather and things, but but unbelievable people.

I spent a year there.

And after that year, I got a call from Kevin O'Neill, who had been at Arizona, and he had just got the Marquette job.

And honestly, if I wasn't so deeply committed to the goals that I set when I was 20 years old, I would not have gone to Marquette.

I would have stayed at the University of North Dakota.

It was that good of a place.

But I had to go.

And I had to go because it was a, you know, that's a power five type of situation and all the history, Al McGuire and the whole thing.

So I leave after a year, and I I I have a little regret around that even today.

But I left and uh went to Marquette.

I was there two years.

So if you're if we're counting, I'm two, one, one, two.

Okay, that's how crazy this is.

And another great situation and big time basketball.

We played in the Bradley Center downtown Milwaukee, the whole thing.

And at that time, though, and you you won't remember this probably, and most of our listeners won't remember this, but at that time the NCAA and their infinite wisdom had a rule that you could have a head coach and two paid assistant coaches, and then you could have a third assistant, but he could only make money like$12,000 that came out of your camp.

So here, here's you got guys, one guy in every program in the country working 78 out 80 hours a week, making making whatever.

Uh I don't know how we did it, to be honest with you.

I made a decision to leave Marquette because I had been in now two, three, four, five, six, and I had not recruited at the Division I level.

One of my goals was to become a Division I assistant so I could recruit, so I could eventually become a head coach.

So the move made a lot of sense to Miami of Ohio.

And I worked there with Joe B.

Wright, and we had tremendous success, NCAA tournament, two Mac titles.

And it was a really weird situation how I ended up leaving Miami.

But after two years, I left Miami of Ohio and went to Stetson University in Florida, very close to where you're at, just down Highway 4 there, Interstate 4.

And was at Stetson, a small private school in the middle of Florida.

And um, they hadn't done a lot of winning.

And I was in there with Dan Hipster, who was our head coach, and just a great coach and an awesome guy and a heck of a golfer, the whole deal.

And and Hip did a great job for Stetson, and I was lucky enough to step in as the head coach when he left and went to Akron.

And that was the second of my goals that I set.

From Stetson, I uh took actually took a year off, and I was fired at Stetson at the end of a of my run there.

Unfortunately, we just couldn't get it turned, and they never have got it turned, and that's not the point.

But I was really disappointed that we didn't get more of a chance to really see it through.

But that's college basketball.

I took a year off, and then I ended up at Iowa State University.

Tim Floyd had just left for the Chicago Bulls, and his buddy Larry Eustacey was coming in being named the head coach of the Cyclones.

And Tim helped me get on the staff with Larry, and the amount of success we had at Iowa State is unparalleled in their history, and just a wonderful, wonderful experience and time.

So I ended up at Iowa State, and that all equals 20 years and seven moves.

But I'll tell you, the people and the experiences and the players are enough for 10 people's careers and the experiences they have.

And I don't see that from an ego standpoint.

I'm just saying that college basketball can be dreadfully depressing when you're not winning and it's not working, and can be so euphoric you can't even remember what city you're in after big wins and accomplishments.

Just crazy.

So the highs and lows are so magnified.

And then at that time, a couple years later, I decided what I was going to do with my mentoring program.

So those relationships, Kevin, that I had in coaching are relationships that I have today, you know, years later, which really says a lot about the profession and a lot about coaches in general.

And it's a really band of brothers.

You're not tied to everybody, but I mean, I just I have hundreds and hundreds of coaches as contacts that I can call at any time.

And man, it's just really uh unbelievable benefit for later in life as you go through other situations, good and bad, whether it's adversity or whether it's triumph.

And that's a cool thing about the profession.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

And when I listen to you talk about those 20 years, I sit there and I can't help but think of something that I always say to people when when talking about life, you know, just life stuff, and I always say that that in this life, I believe what matters the most is the relationships made and the experiences had that are to me what matters in this life.

And I sit there and I think, wow, talk about 20 years of summing that up, of just amazing, amazing experiences, amazing people met along the way.

And um that that's just really awesome.

SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna tell you that maybe the maybe the number one thing about all this that we're talking about is when your players finish their their eligibility, whether they go to the NBA, some of them did, a lot of them did, and then the you know the other guys are just gonna you know move on with life.

And I've always had conversations with our guys, talked about the lessons you're learning and tell them, I know it's hard.

I know you just had a brutal practice.

You think coaches all over your butt because of this and that, and the believe me, he cares deeply for you.

We are trying to get you to a place personally that you've never been at before.

And because of that, you're gonna be really, really uncomfortable.

I always would like to do that.

Introduce the concept of comfortable versus uncomfortable.

Because I say if you stay comfortable, you're gonna stay, you're gonna be the same player throughout your entire career.

Do you want to do that?

No, I want to play.

I want to be an all-league player.

Well, get ready to be uncomfortable.

Because after you are uncomfortable for whatever you know, defined period of time, you will then realize that you are a guy that you never thought you could be as a person, as a friend, but as a basketball player.

And that's what good coaches do.

They help players get to places that they need to get to for them and that team to be successful, but they've got to be willing to do it.

And really good coaches know how to do that.

So that's one thing I wanted to say.

That's a really interesting concept.

And you talk about a life, something for life, comfortable versus uncomfortable.

Oh my gosh.

That's yeah, you need that.

That's an anchor.

The other thing I would tell them, Kevin, is about relationships.

And I said, you're not going to be, you know, great friends with everybody on this team the rest of your life.

I said, there are there are a lot of people in your life.

Choose your friends wisely, and then spend time and be very genuine and transparent with those people because they just may be friends for life.

And you can't put a figure on that.

You certainly can't put a dollar figure on that.

Are you kidding me?

It's worth I don't know what comes after trillions, but whatever it is, take it times whatever.

I mean, it's astronomical.

And I asked them one really pivotal question, and this is one of the really, really neat things I think that I've done, and I do this when I speak too.

I asked our guy, so let's say he's a sophomore, so he's 19, 20 years old.

And I say, when you leave basketball and you have a family or you're single or you're out there and you got a job and you're working, I said, something is gonna happen.

A pivotal piece of adversity is gonna happen, a tragedy, something.

Or let's say you're just going through a about a depression and you just are anxiety and you can't get through it, and you just don't know where to turn.

I said, Who are you gonna call at 3 a.m.?

Yep.

And then I shut up and pause like I just did, and you should see the look on their face.

And and sadly, sadly, when I speak to groups of people who are already in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, or even even older, maybe.

That is, I have seen that question literally deflate people.

As I speak, you can just see by the look on their face and how their shoulders drop.

They're like, uh, I don't, I don't have anybody to call at 3 a.m.

And I think that's so sad.

And so I tell our guys at 19 and 20 about these things because they are going to appear.

And I want them to know that that there's tremendous strength and resilience and support around being able to call someone, even if it's just one person in your life, who will pick up that phone and who will be there for you and be willing to do anything for you.

Now, we're way off the subject to basketball, but I think life is embedded into the game and into every sport.

And for people who are pastors, for people who are librarians, for people who are teachers, for people who I mean, you know, doctors, I mean, we there are lessons that I think young people need to hear and know about way, way before you know they experience it for themselves.

So if there's one thing I'm really proud of, as you can tell as I talk about this, because I haven't I haven't mentioned a lot about championships or or the Final Four or NCAA or anything, but I have talked about the gifts.

I think that, and I was always trying to pass on gifts to our guys because I knew eventually, they might not remember it was me that told them, but eventually they had a coach that said, this was going to happen.

And here's how he told me to deal with it.

And I'm really proud of that.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely, and I love that.

And I love the way that you you recognize it and you talk about it of this crossing, this intersection between life and the game.

Because they're not separate, you know, and and and I love the way that you speak about that.

Now, one thing I am curious about when talking about the players and talking about coaching, I've never had a chance to ask a coach this question before.

And and it kind of goes back to me what you were talking about when you talked about being fired from the Stetson.

Uh-huh.

Is so many times when we when we watch sports, football, basketball, whatever it is, so many times when when a team is doing poorly, I always feel as though it it always seems like you know, everybody at heart was on the coach.

And the coach is the first one.

We need a new coach, we need a coach.

But from coming from you as a coach, do you guys still ever I'm like, well, maybe that coach just got some really terrible players.

I would love to know like your perspective on that.

Like coming from a coach, a great coach like you were, do you feel that a great coach can take average players and make them great?

Or sometimes is it not the coach's fault?

SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, it's on the coach because just as a CEO of a corporation, it's ultimately on him.

Now, how many of those things is he not really was he not really involved in?

How many of those things, you know, is he not directly tied to?

A lot.

All right.

But when he was hired, he was hired as basic, and I I I've always said this, you're hired as the CEO of a basketball program.

And you ultimately, even though I'll give you a great example.

When a player makes a poor decision away from basketball on campus or whatever the case may be, and it's an it's a negative, it's like a black eye on the athletic department, a black eye on the university.

Who does it really go back to?

It isn't the player.

It is a little bit, but it's the coach.

And the first thing that people will say is, well, they're bringing in thugs, you know, that they're they're not bringing in the right guys.

Okay.

I don't know if this coach can recruit.

I don't think he can recruit.

You can just hear the dialogue, right, down in the coffee shop, you know, to all those all those people who think they're coaches.

And it does.

Now, what was that coach doing at 2 12 a.m.

when you know what one of your players got picked up for for DUI?

Well, he was at home sleeping.

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: He was at home sleeping.

But it's gonna, I mean, telling you, that phone is gonna start ringing about 5 30 a.m.

and the people are gonna, media is gonna be calling and the AD, there's a meeting with the AD and the whole thing.

Well, it's gonna come back on the head coach.

And you know it should.

That's the way it should be.

And a good coach can separate, he can sift out whether it's a situation where you know you need to suspend a player or get rid of a player, depending on the severity of what we're talking about, or put your arm around him and say, you made a poor decision.

And I'll tell you, we've it's happened a lot in in my coaching career, and a lot of times it's young guys you never thought would make that that kind of choice.

So they're not bad people.

They made poor decisions.

I've made poor decisions in my life, and it's cost me, okay?

I've made great decisions, but you know, our world doesn't pay attention to great decisions.

They pay attention, you know, they love picking it up.

I don't know, there's something about the human race that just gets the biggest kick out of people falling on their face.

I don't know what it is, and they like to talk about them like they know them, those types of things.

So, and the other thing I'll add about that, Kevin, is that now the kind of money that is being spent to go get a coach and the salaries are people say, oh, they're crazy, they're making too much money.

They're well, you know what?

There's an AD and a university and a president of a university out there that are willing to pay that.

So that's the going rate for a coach, let's say, at a Power Five conference.

A football coach is making, I mean, I don't know what Nick Saban's making, but it's probably close to eight or ten million a year.

And people can scoff on that, but that's the going rate.

Now, because of that, though, it puts added pressure on them and added, you know, and the responsibility of everything that goes on in that program.

Really good coaches, guys that I respect most, are the ones that take the heat after losses.

They're the ones that take the heat when the program's not going good.

They're the ones that take the heat when a player makes a poor decision, like I just talked about.

That's just the way it is.

Whether they caused it or not, they are in charge.

And um, you know, if you think about the game of basketball, Kevin, when that ball goes up and the jump ball to start the game, it is crazy how helpless you feel because in practice you can stop and you got film you can watch and the whole deal.

When the game starts, the amount of uncontrollables are insane.

Let's start with the officials.

And I think officials do an unbelievable job, by the way, in general.

I really do.

But that's an uncontrollable.

Guys' careers in the balance based on how that game is called.

And as long as the games are called by human beings, there's going to be a human element of mistake making.

You just can't help it, right?

How your players react, how they play, how they listen, how they execute.

Did they take things from practice and get it into the game?

Crowds, injuries.

I mean, it's a long list of uncontrollables.

And that's the thing about coaching that you have to accept when you become a coach.

If you're really a control guy, you're gonna have a hard time in coaching.

You really are, because the game's full of uncontrollables.

So uh that's a lot about head coaches, but yes, I think it's ultimately on them, without a question.

SPEAKER_00: Okay.

Well, that that's good to know.

And and and I was sitting there thinking when you were talking, I thought to myself, you know, honestly, I feel like for a way for me to compare it and and and wrap my head around it and and and really understand where you're coming from, is I thought, stop thinking of the team and the coach as two separate entities, but rather the coach is the leader of that team.

Oh, absolutely.

You know, and and and so that's what I I kept sitting there thinking when when you think of it like that, making it the coach is the leader of the team, it makes a little bit more sense, you know, to somebody like me.

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01: It it it really does.

And and you know, you have to tell your team, hey, listen, I'm in charge of making decisions, you know, myself and the staff, and we're in charge of making decisions.

And I'll tell you what, guys, most of the decisions we make are really difficult decisions.

But I'm telling you, we can't play 12 guys at one time.

Okay, they the rules won't let us.

Okay, they'll only let us play five.

We can't play 12.

And you know, that they hate hearing that, but they know that's reality.

A lot of really tough decisions to make.

But you've got to, you know, you've got to.

And they're gonna look at you for every decision you make with scrutiny.

People from the outside are gonna look.

But your guys have to understand that another trait of a great coach, in my experience and in my perspective, is one who takes every player and determines where they're at in terms of their ability to play with toughness or to execute or the skills of the game, identify it.

Let's say you got a freshman coming in that was a you know all-state player in California.

We've got everybody telling him he should come into Iowa State and start and average 15 points a game as a freshman, okay?

And either becomes a redshirt or he becomes a guy that plays in like 11 games and averages a point a game.

But you take them where they are, identify where they are, and then you you craft a plan for them to get where they want to go and where you'd like to help them to go.

And you work that plan every single day.

That's why a lot of players don't play until their their sophomore year, their junior year, and into their senior year.

Unless you're ultra-talented, you play right away.

But that is the mark of a great coach.

And you see some programs, I know you do when I say this, you'll see you'll immediately start to think about let's say football and basketball programs in college football and basketball, who are known for coaches who develop players.

Year in and year out, they have good teams, they develop players.

I think Gonzaga's a great example.

I mean, they have the same kind of looking team and the same attributes every year on that team.

I swear it's unbelievable.

Well, that means the guys that aren't playing this year are going to play in two years, and they're gonna be really good in two years, but they're not really good right now.

So that staff has got to, and this is stuff that nobody sees.

That staff has to work 24-7 to develop that young guy into the player he wants to become.

And boy, you know, I don't know if you saw the Iowa Penn State football game, but um it's my alma mater, and I'm in the north end zone, I'm a seasoned ticket holder, and I I hold Kirk Ference up as highly as any basketball or football coach I've ever seen or been around.

His ability to be a first-class guy, but to develop players is unparalleled.

It really is, and I've always just totally respected him for that.

Because at the University of Iowa, they're not able to recruit the best players in the country.

They get the best they can get and they develop them.

And they're now number two in the country in college football.

So it's a great example.

It really is.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's that's absolutely phenomenal.

I love it.

I love it.

Now, I'm curious about coaching and and so you coach, we know you coach five years of high school, then you coach 20 years in college, and you you've not coached a team in the NBA, but you have or coached other coaches who have gone on to the NBA.

And and I'm curious what kind of like separates the different categories of of high school, college, NBA, because we we know in terms of the players, you know, it's just it seems like it's it's the best of the best from each or who get to to move to the next level.

But what about in terms of coaching?

Like how does it differ?

How did how did going from a high school coach to a college coach differ whether like you know, positively and you know, negatively?

SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.

Well, one thing right off the bat, I can tell you this a high school coach's record has absolutely nothing to do with him getting a college job.

And there are a lot of high school coaches who are really, you know, angry at the profession or disappointed in people who didn't hire them or whatever.

It's not about your record in high school.

It's about who you are.

And I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what.

In education, we have missed the boat big time.

And I tell everybody this.

Because in business classes at the university level, they just gloss over the idea that that really your career, and you based on the profession you you pick, is almost completely leaning on and depending on the people that are willing to take a chance on you and hire you.

And I always say, and I love talking to young people, I say, have you graduated?

Yep.

Have your degree?

Yep.

Okay.

What did that cost you?

Well, X amount, whatever.

I say, Where are you working now?

Well, I don't have a job.

I'm I'm out there, I'm sending resumes out.

And I kind of shake my head when I hear that, and I think, why didn't somebody grab this young person when they were freshmen and teach them how to network?

Why are we not doing this?

And so right now I'm gonna reflect back on your question.

So it's not your credentials.

It basically is this it's how you are able to attach yourself to people who make decisions.

Okay, I'm huge, Kevin, on the whole six degrees of Kevin Bacon.

And I teach the heck out of that and out of networking and relationship building.

And get this.

So we've all heard that um it's not what we know, it's who we know, correct?

Yes.

I was told that.

I thought that's what it was.

Well, in my teaching of of these coaches, I have reframed that.

And I said, it's not about what you know or your record in high school, it's not about who you know.

And they look at me funny.

I said, the key to your career is going to be who knows you.

Oh so all of a sudden, and I and I do this with my coaches, I go, I want you to write down every coach that you know.

And this is before I add what I just said.

I mean, they'll have these unbelievable lists of, you know, 200, 300, 75, what I mean, big lists, right?

Oh, I know him, I know him, I know him, I know him.

And I'll say, okay, now I want you to write down all of the people who, if I call them right now and they have a job opening, they're either going to hire you because of strength of relationship, or you'll be in the top three and get one of the three really coveted interviews.

You ought to see how short that list is.

So so think about it, you know, people say, Well, I know Bill Self.

And I say, That's awesome.

Okay.

Two things.

If I call Bill Self right now, will he say instantly that he knows you and tell me a lot about you?

Well, I worked at his basketball camp seven years ago.

He does not remember you.

I promise you.

So if you say you know Bill Self, it doesn't matter.

How many people does Bill Self know?

You're just one of those people.

It's not like he remembers that you're the only one that he ever met.

And so you start you start framing it that way.

And then and then so we'll draw out their network from one degree, and I'm a big degree guy.

So so you know, one degree is you and me, because we we are at a level where we're getting to know each other, but we can say we that we know each other.

You and I are one degree separated.

Someone you know in Daytona that I don't know is to and I'm two degrees from that person.

And someone that person knows, I'm three degrees from that person.

So theoretically, there's invisible lines that connect me to that friend of yours who has a friend.

So I'm three degrees away from that guy.

And so I use that concept to them, and they draw it out, and it's amazing how big that gets.

It exponentially grows.

But the key is I teach them how to develop a relationship with a second and third degree person.

Because you can say I'm connected to this guy, but it doesn't matter if there's no relationship.

Now, theoretically, you have a great opportunity to meet that person on the strength of your first and second degree connections.

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to my third degree uh connection, and he's somebody that I think is pretty influential.

And I'm gonna find out who he knows, and I'm gonna find out as many people that know him, and I'm gonna get to know those guys.

And those guys will then eventually mention me because they know me, and he'll say, Oh, I don't know him, I've heard his name, but and now all of a sudden he becomes my first degree.

And so it's just a game of of moving through those degrees, and we physically draw it out.

Okay, that's crucial.

Who knows you is crucial.

And then just they have to remember every day is an interview.

Uh, we are being watched by people who may hire us seven years from now like a hawk.

And it's a great way to go about your business because you you should always work like that anyway.

But to have the mindset of I've got to do my best work, I've got to treat everyone well, you know, we always use the janitor as an example.

You know, those were always kind of my favorite guys.

I love those guys.

Why would we treat a major donor at a university, athletic, let's say, giver at a university?

Why would we, you know, glad hand him and and and love being around him, but you know, somebody that's down in their luck, you know, will drive right past them, or we walk and face them in the hallway and walk right by them.

Everybody's a human, you know, everybody's on this earth to hopefully do their best.

And that always bugged me because we always had donors that and I loved spending time with them, but I mean, everybody's worth that.

So these are the things I try to teach.

So your answer, and I loved your question, but it's like how do coaches, how do coaches make it through the profession from one level to another and all the way maybe to the NBA?

So if you think about it, a lot of times, Kevin, and I know this is is the same in in in every industry, but a lot of times there are people who who, let's say that they're not perceived as having earned their stripes to be able to have a certain job.

And um, like a player that that played at Duke, that is now the head coach at Duke, and somebody might say, well, he didn't, he he wasn't a GA for two years, he didn't do this, he didn't do that.

Well, you can forget about that, because that's not how it works.

You know, that there's there's nothing on on paper that says you got to do this, this, this, and this, and then you got a chance to get this job.

It's all based on who knows you.

And then have you defined your network and are you adept at developing relationships with people?

Because people love talking about other successful, powerful people, or just people that are have been good to them.

The the great motivational speaker, Zig Ziglar, one of his my favorite quotes from Zig is identify what you want to accomplish.

And you can accomplish that if along the way you give enough to other people.

And he always said, you give first, and then your dream starts to grow and materialize.

And I love that.

This is not a it's not a situation of having your handout.

People don't hire people like that.

People hire people that for absolutely no reason whatsoever, they're just good to people.

And that's inherently what people do that understand that.

We give first, we get next.

And that's a biblical concept.

It's been around as long as this, you know, as long as we and everybody else has been around.

And it's so true.

Be a giver, and it'll materialize later.

So I can promise you that the guys in the NBA who never coached in high school or college and just got an MBA job, it's because of a relationship.

And more power to them.

But life is about relationships, right?

It's about who you're gonna call at 3 a.m.

It's about who you're gonna call when you've lost seventh straight and you absolutely don't have a clue how to continue.

It's so true.

And that's the fabric, that's the fabric and the theme that goes through every profession and all of us, no matter where we're at in our life.

Absolutely, relationships.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I uh oh my goodness, I can't agree, can't agree more.

So so now I'm listening to you so far in our conversation today.

And no doubt, I mean, you you have such infinite wisdom far and beyond to me, even a coach.

And to me, I, you know, because I I know, you know, a little bit of the outline of your story.

And I know that a lot of our wisdom comes from the experiences that we face, the adversity we face.

And for the person who's who's still with us today in this this interview, this podcast, I would love for us to switch gears a little bit because at this point they may be thinking, you know, yeah, well, that's great.

I'm glad that he's had such amazing success in life.

But the truth is you face adversity of your own.

And I would love for you to to touch on some of the challenges going back from losing your children who passed away to you know, just some of these different different things that that have been part of your life.

And and I was just hoping that maybe you could, you know, shine a little light on that.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.

It's always darkest before the dawn.

And first time I heard that, it didn't mean anything to me.

It means a lot to me now.

We grow in strength and perspective and resilience through adversity.

I write in my book, my book is called Rebound Forward, Rebounding Through Life's Most Devastating Losses and Stay in the Game.

And I write about, fictitiously write about an old man that went from door to door, and his goal was to find someone to answer the door that had not experienced any adversity.

And he would spend the entire day just knocking on doors, and he got stories like he couldn't believe.

You know, one was uh a domestic uh abuse situation.

So only the mother was there, let's say, with six kids, and what she had to go through to keep that family afloat.

Then there was a cancer situation, and then there was a car accident, and then there was, I mean, their their business went bankrupt, and and they couldn't find a job.

And you name every every adversity that exists, and he heard them all.

And he couldn't believe there wasn't one person who would come to the door and say, My life has been wonderful, it's been awesome, I've had no obstacles, I've had no pain, no tragedy, no grief, no losses of any kind.

I've had a wonderful life.

Because you know what?

That person doesn't exist.

And and so that story I write about, uh, because I wanted to kind of set the table in my book about the fact that we better get ready.

And that's another thing, you know, that I talk to talk to our players about.

You know, how are you going to handle adversity?

And how we handle the tough times, Kevin, are what makes us who we are.

And whether life created the adversity, which happens, or whether we and our decisions create the adversity, it doesn't matter because they come from both angles.

It's how we respond, not react.

I don't know about you, but w when I go to react, I'm not very good.

I make poor decisions when I react.

When I step back, take a breath, analyze it, call some of my friends, maybe call my pastor who's just an anchor, and we talk.

And once I do that and kind of clear the air and think about it, then I get a chance to respond and hopefully in a positive way.

So I truly know that everybody in this world has faced some really tough stuff.

How they've dealt with it becomes part of who they are.

And so if you think about it, you know, we shouldn't beg for adversity.

I'm not saying that.

But when it hits, and it will hit, how are we going to respond?

And it is a great, a great thing to talk in front of an audience about because they start to analyze.

You can just see them thinking in their mind, okay, this happened, that happened.

How did I deal with that?

Ooh, I didn't do a very good job of that.

Boy, and I don't have that relationship anymore with my oldest son, you know, that type of thing.

So is adversity good?

It can be.

It's not every time because it base it's based on how we work with it, you know, how we frame it and how we respond.

There are things in life that we don't have any control over.

In 1992, I was at I was at Miami, Ohio, I was at practice, and a and a campus security fella had come into the building, had come down to the floor and was walking.

I was conducting a drill down at the north end, and he was walking towards me.

And he actually stepped on the apron of the floor cup.

Okay.

He wanted to say, would you get this guy off my basketball floor?

What is he doing?

And I see him out of the corner of my eye.

But my world my life was ready to be changed, and I didn't know it.

And he said, Are you Coach Brown?

Yes, you you need to come with me.

And I had, I and I was almost like mad, like, what?

You know, and I I could tell by looking at his face I needed to go with him.

And I did.

And I followed him.

We walked out of the building, we got in his car, and I said, What's going on?

And he said, I I just need to take you just somewhere uh near campus, and and I I was told not to say anything and just come with me.

And and I knew my heart's uh my my heart just dropped.

And we went to the hospital and my wife was there in hysterics, and our oldest daughter of four years and a day um had passed away, and she wasn't coherent enough to to be able to hear me when I got there, so I never really got to say the things I wanted to say.

But so I went to basketball practice and everything was really good in my life.

And before practice ended, it had changed and changed forever.

And and not to go into detail about why it was a it was just an internal thing.

It was a a flu related thing that that turned into death, basically.

It's a disease they don't know anything about, which really, really angered me.

Like, how could we not know what this is?

Because I got three I you know, eventually we had three other girls.

I got to take care of my kids.

You can't tell me what it is.

That was really hard.

And plus, it was a very fast-acting type of type of situation.

So to say that that that changed me forever is such a minor statement.

It it does, it does, and it can't hardly even be explained.

At that time, we had one daughter who was one year old.

And uh so fast forward to and at the same time we're moving, right?

We're going through all the coaching moves that we talked about earlier in the show while all this is going on.

And so we were at Miami at the time, we went to Florida, we had our third and fourth daughter born in in Florida.

So we've got we've got three now.

And my second oldest, while we were in Florida, ended up at Arnold Palmer Children's Hospital in Orlando that you're familiar with, and she was on her deathbed twice, lost the ability to walk, move her limbs, uh the the disease basically just decimated her body.

We got her home, we taught, I taught her to walk again, she got her strength, and she made it, and we didn't think she was going to make it.

She's 29 years old now, she's a wonderful, wonderful young lady, and just just she she has resilience because of what she went through.

So we were scared, oh boy, on that one, but we made it through.

We moved back up to Iowa during that year I mentioned that I didn't coach.

And during that year, our third oldest daughter, Natalie, in February of 1998, six years later, didn't look right one day because I was home with the kids.

And I immediately called 911.

She was airlifted to Iowa City.

And uh by the time we got there, because we had to drive, she was gone.

She had passed.

And that was a that that also was a very kind of a quick deal.

So when it happened the second time, Kev, I'll promise you, buddy, I was ready to check out.

Uh I was numb.

I was a I was a I I was not a good husband.

We we grieved separately.

But when it happened the second time and almost a third time with Claire, who I just talked about, that that was a little bit too much for me.

And the thing that got me through it is what we've has been the theme of this whole conversation are people.

And I had to lean on people and believe what they were saying because I kept telling them, I can't do this.

I'm not, I'm not made for this.

People are not made for this going through this.

And and my wife just so supportive through all the years, and we looked at each other like, what in the world are we gonna do?

Fortunately, we got through it.

And we had a fourth daughter, and and she never had one one symptom, one uh problem with with this disease.

So it's one of those things that that that it was a life thing.

It wasn't anything that that we did out of neglect or anything that we caused or anything, but that's that's a tough thing about the tough thing about life.

Things happen to us.

How we react, how we respond.

Something like this, it's so deep and it's it it cuts, it cuts so so deep.

I don't know.

I couldn't even I I I could tell somebody what I did that they should or shouldn't do, but I I I I couldn't I couldn't advise them.

It's a very personal thing.

And the statistics on on couples that divorce after the loss of a child is is very high.

The statistics of someone who has lost two children is you can imagine.

And we stayed together.

And unfortunately, in 2015, we we did split ways and and and my wife wanted to uh just wanted to move forward.

So I went through a divorce in 2015, which was extremely, extremely difficult.

But have two beautiful uh young ladies, 25 and uh and 29, and um they're they're kind of my my heart and soul, as you can imagine, between you know going through all this.

But that's been my most recent adversity.

But I'll tell you, to get through to get through that, it never heals, it never goes away.

It's a scar that that that certainly heals over time, but it it my two scars are still really, really sensitive to touch.

Uh they're scars, they've scarred over, but but they're still it's a daily thing for me.

But I've learned to handle it and frame it and have a pretty good pretty good perspective on it.

And I think that the gift out of all this, Kevin, is and I use the word gift, is that it allows me, when I tell my story to people, it allows me for them to realize that, oh my gosh, I just heard his story, but look at him and look at my wife, look at these people, and look at the uh I mean, all the people in the world who have gone through things like this.

And are they depressed?

I mean, are they have they given up on life?

Have they just checked in?

Have they committed suicide?

Have they ended all relationships and and they just kind of you know live in obscurity?

Or have they decided to use it to become better and to help other people who hear their story gain strength and resilience through hearing that?

And I've had so many people tell me, oh my gosh, I I feel terrible about the way I've handled things that well that weren't even things.

You know, there I had a fender bender or I had this or I had that, or my daughter flunked out of college or whatever.

And it gives them maybe added perspective just by sharing a story.

So if if I can help improve someone's life or someone's perspective through explaining what I've been through, isn't that a gift?

It's a real interesting spin on the two most tragic things that I'll ever, I'm sure I'll ever experience, but I consider it a gift because I can pass it on.

I can repackage it and pass it on.

And I get emotional just thinking about it and talking about it because of the people that I've that I've come across that I've talked about these things, and they are in tears thinking about maybe how they've responded incorrectly and decisions they've made.

And I can't wait, you know, they'll say, I can't wait.

This one gal said, I can't wait to call my kids.

You know, they just I'll never forget that.

And I I lost it when she said that.

I did.

I wish I could call my four kids.

But she said, based on what you said, I'm gonna call my kids.

I thought that was one of the greatest compliments of all time that I'll ever get.

And I did that by talking about adversity.

It's a gift, it's an absolute gift.

And and let's not, I didn't want to get through this conversation without giving you a virtual pat on the back and a hug, just based on what you've been through.

And to be able to become the person you've become and run this podcast.

And I mean, for for the adversity that you've got with your blindness, it that's phenomenal.

Phenomenal.

And I know that everything I say, you've already done and you've experienced because people have said, how in the world can you be as positive as you are and be the kind of person that you are?

And and I can say that without knowing you real, real well.

I know that.

I just know that.

And so you've you've been through all these things.

So so that's how I would explain how adversity has affected our life, and that's just how I choose to deal with it.

I I've got to.

Because any other way I don't think would have worked for me.

And it's a real personal thing.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, 100%.

And and and first and foremost, thank you.

That means a lot to me coming from a man like you, a man who's gone through what you have.

I thank you very much for those for what you've just said.

And to add on to you know, what everything that you were saying is, you know, I don't like to say that things that happen in the this life or the adversity is is good.

Like we've talked about.

You you as humans, we we don't want to f have adversity.

We'd rather for everything to be hunky-dory and everything to be fine in life.

But that's one thing that I found in my own life that I've been able to justify it, to, to make good of it, is to find ways that we can take the bad stuff that happens in life and turn it around to benefit somebody else.

And to return to to take that negative and turn it into a positive.

And if we can use that to then benefit somebody else who who maybe is going through it also, or they will go through something.

something.

You know, and and and I've said that.

I've I've said that about, you know, with me of being able to share my story.

And I I've said maybe at the end of the day, it makes all that I've been through worth it if I've been able to help somebody else.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

Absolutely.

And that's what I meant when I said, yeah, listen, you've already done all the things I'm going to talk about on this program you have.

And uh that's a great way to frame it that one of the worst things that can happen to us ends up being a benefit and a gift to other people.

That's pretty awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Pretty awesome stuff right there.

SPEAKER_00: So I am curious one thing about how does a guy go from from being a coach in leading teams to then even even working with with these other guys who you're helping them become coaches and and stuff to then deciding to put it all out there the good and the bad in a book.

What what made you, I guess, so compelled to be that open to to open the doors to your life and share it with the world.

SPEAKER_01: Well Kevin, I think the only way for me to answer that is to open another box.

And so I don't think that we talked about this.

Maybe we did in our other conversation, maybe we didn't.

But I I think this is the appropriate time to talk about it.

And then I can and then I can answer your question as to why I'm laying all this out there.

All right.

So when Meredith passed in 1992 and I'm at Miami of Ohio, I had to I had to function.

And you know I was so into my career and so into working that you know I didn't have time to go have coffee with a lot of people and visit with a lot of people and try to I I didn't I didn't want to grieve.

I I didn't I mean I just you know what I did I worked harder.

I worked more hours I mean insane hours because I wouldn't have to be at home and this is a selfish thing but I wouldn't have to be at home and have all the memories and and just have to face it because I didn't have to face it when I was working and watching film and in practice and dealing with our players and I'm I'm until midnight.

I was never afraid of work until midnight and I I I was always an office guy.

I loved the office.

So I worked harder and put more into it which was not healthy.

That was a poor decision on my part.

Decision number two is and I'd always been one that loved to have a good time loved to have a beer a couple beers maybe more than a couple I just used alcohol as as a comfort as a blanket you know something that would make me feel better at least temporarily so there are there are two decisions I made right there that were not good decisions in in terms of me getting through getting through this loss of of my child.

So I'm going to fast forward and and this is really where it got this is really where I just bottomed out completely.

In 97 d during the year if you can follow the timeline during the year where I didn't we moved back to Iowa and I didn't coach and that's the year that that Natalie in February of 98 passed.

That fall the fall of 97 we got a computer at home and I wasn't working so I was at home and looking for comfort like you can't believe because here I am without an identity right I went from that eight year old guy to that guy that got fired at Stetson.

And that was the end of my world I mean I just and I didn't handle it well.

I didn't and so here I am I am struggling with my identity because I was the coach and now I run into people in the community.

Well what do you do?

Well I uh nothing right now.

And I'll tell you to to get an identity yanked from you I think that's why so many professional athletes struggle with not being that guy anymore and being number 97 and wearing the helmet or wearing the basketball jersey because that's a real thing.

College athletes who lose their identity and and and professional athletes who lose their identity when they don't play anymore.

And I was no longer the coach.

And I was feeling so bad for myself and I was the victim and I was in a bad bad place a bad place.

And I decided in my in my infinite wisdom that a great place to go for comfort would be on the computer.

And I eventually turned to pornography and it pornography is like any other type of compulsion addiction if you would that it it you just go deeper and deeper and deeper because the the thrill of it all doesn't hold.

And so you've got to seek out the next the the the the next high if you would and so I'm going to say that for six years I found w when I felt like I needed relief and I needed a a chance to go to a place that I thought didn't cost me anything.

That's a joke but didn't cost me anything.

Of course I I justified it you know I need this because I I'm the victim and this is going to be comforting to me and nobody's going to tell me no.

And and I did and I I did that for six years.

I I'm going to fast forward to 2003 when two federal agents walked into my office as an assistant at Iowa State University.

And that day wasn't the last day that I coached but I only had a few days left to coach and I had to I had to give up and I and I threw away the profession.

You've heard me talk about how much basketball meant to me I had to throw it away for the rest of my life.

And basically what they were saying was we were tipped off I'm totally transparent about this.

So we were tipped off by a conversation that you were involved in in a chat room.

All right so and I always talk to men well you know women are involved in pornography too but I always talk to men about if you think a a chat room is about fantasy and fantasies aren't real and they don't count for anything you're crazy because it costs me dearly and so I was on the computer I was I accessed things that were illegal that I shouldn't have accessed.

I was in chat rooms where what was said basically what happened was a a person in that chat room turned me in, called the authorities based on what what we talked about.

Okay.

So I have two federal agents walk in my office and the sum of this Kevin is that I lost the ability to coach forever.

I put so much stress and strain and betrayal in my marriage and to my family that it's it's unspeakable the kind of pain that I caused and I had to face a federal judge and hear him tell me that because of mandatory sentencing I was sentenced to two years in federal prison.

So at that time I think at that time Kevin I started to try to I I really started to get it.

And when I went away I actually wrote my book when I was gone in prison I wrote my book and I wrote tons and tons I I filled like 30 journals and I wrote incessantly and because I was trying to get all this out because I I probably I didn't know it at the time but I I think I had to get a record of everything that I was feeling in my life and turn from the victim to the person who victimized others and the person who had the rest of his life to figure out is if he was going to turn

into a negative victimized person or he was going to turn it and become a beacon of light and hope if you would for other people who maybe made poor decisions in their response to their adversity.

At that time like I said began writing like crazy I spent two years there may be a book Kevin within my experience because there was so much good that came out of it I can't think that there's enough chapters to include in a book and I mean it and I know it sounds crazy and people say no that can't be I said well you need to listen to what it what I'm going to tell you because it it happened it happened and we don't have time for it today.

But I am telling you it was there were unbelievably great things that happened in my experience in federal prison.

Medium security federal prison this was a no joke place and what happened I never could have I never would have guessed.

After that I come back and that's when I started my mentoring program that's when I had a book that it was it was ready to be kind of rewritten and and edited and published and at that time I started to speak I actually went into some prisons and spoke and I spoke to churches and I spoke to men's groups and I spoke to Kiwanis and Rotary and anybody I could talk to and I didn't know it at the time but what I was doing was I was broadcasting a story that is the last thing I wanted

to do.

You talk about uncomfortable last thing I wanted to do is stand amongst people I knew and people I didn't know and tell this entire story entire story because if I'm going to talk about Randy Brown I'm not going to talk about championships say it's been good talking to you folks hey maybe we'll get a chance to see again and boom I need to leave I'm gone.

I'm not doing that I am a sum I am the composite of everything I've done every action every poor decision all the pain that I might have caused every good decision I am the compilation of all those things.

And it took me a long time to come to that point Kevin but I don't think that had I not gone to prison and you sit there for two years and you think about what you've done and what it's caused and what you threw away and all of a sudden you got one of two ways to go.

You're either going to become a much more desperate awful person to be around and the rest of your life may just be in a a whole bundle of negative or you can turn it into good.

And thank goodness I think it's because of my background with my parents the way I was raised I think where it started I made a decision and I had a lot of support believe me but I made a decision that I was going to use all this for the good of others.

And you had mentioned that you used the word benefit and I used the word gift and this is where it all came from and so when I came home you talk about an identity crisis holy smokes because as you can imagine it was a very very I mean it was a national nationally reported situation locally and in our state it was obviously big news you know a coach that that had that kind of position.

And that's when I decided that I am going to stand through people and be so transparent they can literally see through me.

Because why not?

The only way that happened is is that I came to the point of understanding that I could deliver through a story that was unbelievably difficult to deliver that I could bring great great things to people I could bring light into their world you know bring light into darkness bring hope into someone's life that that they were just absolutely void of because of the way they responded because of the way they framed things because of their perspective.

I can't tell you that there was an absolute day where I realized that that I was going to spend the rest of my life representing myself based on all the the good and bad and in different things I've done.

I think it was a process I think it was something I had to work through for months and months and months and months and months and then I got to the point where I'm going to finish this book.

I'm going to write it I'm going to speak and I don't care and I mean this I can't care about what others have in terms of their judgment in terms of what they think of me and about me because I truly believe this that the only people that can true well our maker you know God truly is the is the only one that can judge us.

But I also think that the only people that can judge you and the people that are listening right now and I mean you so I want you to think about this.

The only people that can truly judge you are the people who know you really well.

And Kevin I was really caught up in people that didn't know me and how they judged me or how they saw me as a person.

You know and I've had people tell me to my face they never should have let you out they should have kept you in there for the rest of your life.

You know you're no different Charles Manson the whole deal I've heard a lot of stuff but you know what I truly feel and I wanted to just lash out and say you don't know me.

You don't know me just from a survival standpoint.

And that would have been a horrible thing to say really it would have been it would have been too defensive to say that.

And I didn't say anything.

And I came to face the reality that I know who I am.

I have claimed what I've done good and bad.

I'll talk about all the good and I'll talk about all the bad I've claimed it.

I own it.

And man that would be a challenge Kevin that I that I would make as as we probably wrap this up that that we we need to claim all of us the whole thing and be that person that has been through really difficult adversity but who has made life a whole lot more difficult than it should be because of decisions we've made maybe reacting maybe not.

I know I reacted and didn't think things out.

So that is the bow that I can put on this conversation.

I mentioned our divorce in 2015 and that was a blow.

That was an absolute blow.

But I tell you what it was it was really I I wouldn't say easy but I I had a I had a really good time a a decent time processing all of that just because of what I'd already been through and I I probably would have not been able to handle that had I not been through a lot of adversity already.

And so man I I'll tell you what if I'm out there in Daytona and I'm on a surfboard I I'm riding the highest wave buddy right now.

I'm riding the highest wave that there is and I've never felt so good about how I go about my days about who I am good and bad.

I'm just in a wonderful place and it's not because of me it's because of people that surround me the support I've been given and I've had friends get absolutely I mean I'm telling you viciously on me.

And that's what a friend does they speak the truth and I've had that and that's where I knew where people stood with with with me in our relationship when they came at me like that.

And I'm glad they did because if they cared about me they would speak their peace and they did.

And it was awesome.

But they're also there man when I call them at odd times of the day and they're also there to give me a hug and and just talk talk real about things in their life that I never knew.

These are guys that I grew up with.

I consider them my best friends in the world.

We've had conversations about things that they admit that they've done the only reason that happened is because they witnessed me telling them about what I've been through and being there as a friend.

Now there's another gift beyond belief.

And so it's just awesome.

I I love what I do for for my uh it's not for my work for my passion.

I love talking to guys like you and people like you I was on a Canadian program last week the uh a gal Teresa who's a who's also a speaker and I just I just know that it's darkest before the dawn and you get you have to stay on top of yourself and adversity can be our our greatest tool and I don't think I shared that with you.

It's part of who I am and I own it brother I own it and sometimes it's really really it's really tough to own it sometimes.

Yeah really tough.

But it's who I am it's part of who I am it's that fabric of it's that compilation of everything right and I got as you can tell listening to me I am so when I start talking about that if I talk to somebody and I start leaving stuff out shame on me.

Now if I have a two minute conversation obviously I can't cover my life right but but uh but but if I'm doing it on purpose shame on me and I really try not to but it's uncomfortable it is and it always will be but it's uncomfortable talking about my kids dying too.

So it's all me.

It's all me.

SPEAKER_00: So I can tell you this is that you speaking of everything that you've been through the adversity and and what and we're going to talk about all of it because like you said none of it is any any worse or more traumatic than than another adversity is adversity.

And and I listened to you though and I think to myself talk about another just amazing powerful example of a person using that adversity for good because not only and and we talked about this earlier about about with your uh athletes trying to get them uncomfortable you you stepped into that uncomfortable you know you you became the player that you were coaching and you and you and you you know and so you're leading by example you're getting uncomfortable to benefit and and by that player

getting uncomfortable and becoming the best player that he can be he's benefiting himself but he's also benefiting the team and I look at you and I think today when you you're not on the basketball court anymore but but you're you're leading that you're leading by example and I just have to say that that your story your your testimony is so powerful I feel absolutely honored you know to to just get to be witness to your story and the fact that I get to have you on here to share it with with my

audience with people listening to this podcast from all over the world who get to to hear your story your true life because life is dirty it's messy it's messed up you know it's not it's not life on TV it's real life and that's what your story is real life and and it's it's something that I feel I feel very honored to to be a part of in the fact of of getting to share it with people and I just you're an awesome guy.

I know you've been through some stuff you've done some stuff that you're you know not happy about like all of us but I can tell you I can tell you that talking to you today that I sit there and think to myself but you know what look at what an awesome guy this has created.

SPEAKER_01: Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: And so so Randy before we end this where can somebody find out more and in in in more and more specifically where can people go to to buy your book?

SPEAKER_01: Amazon's probably the the best route I would say okay perfect and the name of the book is rebound forward either search by rebound forward or by my name randy brown.

Perfect perfect well in in in terms of my website it's my namerandy brown dotcoach coach is now an extension I love it it's randy brown dot coach if anybody who is is listening or is going to listen to it later I'll go anywhere and and speak I I love I love this message.

I framed this in terms of a comeback Kevin so I speak about the comeback and how everybody has a huge comeback.

They just maybe haven't cashed it in yet but we all have it and I've cashed mine in.

And then there's small comebacks you know that we have to face too but so I would say that and then I want to add this that you can find me on about any social media just by either my name or coach RB I go by coach RB a lot.

And then lastly I want to do this and I always do this I want to give my personal private if you would a personal email and my phone number my cell number because the reason I do that if anybody wants any more information on let let's say we've got a young coach out there is he thought the message was great but he wants out of bounds plays.

Okay I got I got thousands of them so you email me or call me and I'll I'll get them to you but that there are typically always people who have something to share okay they don't know me they've heard me but they don't know me.

And sometimes anonymity Kevin is a good thing at least initially and so if anybody wants to make a comment if anybody wants to to ask how do I get through this or that and I've had people email me and call me and and they want to have a conversation about something they've been through a lot of times it's something they've never told anybody in their life at this point.

So that's why I leave this information because again that's a one-on-one opportunity for me to be able to assist somebody and give them a gift.

So my email address is my initials Randy Brown RB at Coach R B.

So R B at C O A C H R B dot com.

It's my email my phone number is 515 4501966 and um you can just text me and and uh give me uh just a little bit of information and I would love to call and or or get your call and have a conversation.

SPEAKER_00: Randy you are a true stand up guy and I want to thank you I want to thank you on behalf of of the person listening today who's thinking oh my gosh this guy is just incredible.

And thank you.

Thank you for being a part of this and um I will be certain that all of that information all the links phone number email is all included in the episode show notes.

So so for for you you know listening please don't think you need to jot that down just check out the show notes where you can find all that information.

And and once again Coach RB it's been a pleasure and um an absolute pleasure and thank you once again.

SPEAKER_01: It has been for me too and and I just want to end with this see you you're the one that's passing on the gift.

See through your program when you have guests on then you're allowing people like you said all over the country and all over the world to hear that you have no I I I call it the the invisible influence and and you are an invisible influencer in that when you have guests on the program like you do all the time and a lot of different people from different walks of life just by having this program and having it go out you're a gift giver big time.

And I want to thank you for that because had we not got together I would not have had an opportunity to share my message with the people that are going to hear this.

And so you're in the gift business you're you're Santa Claus man I mean to to the highest degree and I appreciate you for your story and what you've been through.

You keep plugging it's always darkest before the dawn and uh this this has just been a blast it's been a pleasure and um I I want this to be the beginning of a relationship for you and I.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely absolutely Randy thank you for you listening I especially thank you I thank you for your support of this podcast for you know this week and and for for all of the the weeks that we've been doing the podcast I thank you and you know I just hope that today's conversation has been another another one of those opportunities for you to grow for you to learn and for it to positively impact your own life so thank you and we will see you again next week.

And that's the lowdown with Evan Low.

I hope today's episode inspired you motivated you and excited you to get out and enjoy life no matter what obstacles may be standing in the way