Feeling Clothes and Talking About Life with Two Blind Brothers

Well, I've just chosen to focus my attention on seeing the positive side of the life.

And on the podcast, that's what I want to do for you.

Because no matter what you may be going through the mic, I hope to inspire you to focus on the positive.

And you know what?

I hope that I can also be a source of inspiration for you to just spot smile.

Tell me this doesn't sound like the start to a joke.

Three blind guys walk into a bar.

Or in this case, three blind guys walk into a recording studio.

Well, it's definitely no joke.

Because today I'm not the only guy in the studio who can't see.

Because, well, I'm joined by the two blind brothers.

Hey, this is Kevin Lowe, the host of The Lowdown with Kevin Lowe, the podcast that shines light on the positive side of life.

I'm super excited to have you join me today for episode 53, where I am joined by Bradford and Brian Manning, otherwise known as the Two Blind Brothers.

If you're not familiar who these guys are, let me tell you, you are in for a real treat.

Because not only are they the creators of the clothing line, two blind brothers, a clothing line that focuses on the way things feel, in addition to how they look.

But they're also, as you're about to find out, just simply brothers.

They're gonna pick on each other, they're gonna make fun of each other, and they're gonna have you laughing and cracking up right along with them.

To be quite honest, I think I can sum up just how awesome these guys are with one thing, the Ellen show.

That's right.

These guys actually got to appear on the Ellen show soon after they launched their clothing line.

I kind of feel like these guys may be the closest thing I ever have to getting on the Ellen show myself.

So I'm just going to have to really relish in living up their experience on the Ellen show.

Now, before we dive into this conversation with these two awesome guys, if you're new here, welcome.

And I just want you to know how excited I am to have you here.

I release a new episode each and every Wednesday morning.

So be sure on whatever platform you're listening to this podcast, be sure to smash that follow button so that the podcast pops up in your feed each time a new episode is released.

This episode is coming out on September 1st, 2021.

And I must say, this month of September is loaded with some of the most incredible episodes I have produced to date.

So what I'm saying is, you're in for a real treat, and I want you to not only stick around for today's episode, but for those to come as well.

All right, I think that's enough of me talking.

I want to introduce you to Bradford and Brian Manning, the two blind brothers.

Bradford and Brian Manning, welcome to the podcast, guys.

SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you.

We are excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01: I'm actually even more excited than Brad is to be here.

So if we're gonna start the competition, one tick in Brian's column to start with.

SPEAKER_03: I love it.

A little brotherly love right off the bat.

So well, guys, first and foremost, I want to thank you too very much for taking the time out of your day to come on the podcast.

It means the world to me.

So thank you.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're thrilled to be here.

We love we love the message you put out, we love the content you do, and we like you more.

The more and more I listen to you, the more and more I like you.

So I am pumped to be.

SPEAKER_03: Well, awesome, guys.

Well, well, so before we get into two blind brothers, the brand, I would love to get to know two blind brothers, well, the brothers.

And so, so I guess kind of starting off like you know, super basic, and then we'll kind of you know get into things is so like where did you guys grow up at?

SPEAKER_00: So Brian and I were both born in New Jersey.

Actually, I was born at Edison, New Jersey.

Brian was born at Red Bank.

SPEAKER_03: I don't know how far back we're going, but we were we we we might as we we might as well go all the way back at that point.

SPEAKER_00: So hundreds of years ago, no, we you know, we we I'm five years older than than Brian, and we grew up in New Jersey.

We moved from New Jersey to Virginia when I was 12 years old.

You know, our our story around our eyesight sort of started around uh the age of five for me when I failed the kindergarten eye chart, which started this kind of two-year hunt to figure out what had happened to my eyesight.

But then at some point, I was in a doctor's office and was diagnosed with Stargardt's disease.

But a lot of Brian and I's upbringing is really underscored by our great parents.

And they, you know, we get a chance now with Two Blind Brothers to reflect a lot on, you know, how everything sort of has come together for us.

And a lot of it comes back to really, really strong parents, really pushed us to challenge ourselves, really kind of implanted that self-esteem from an early age.

And and that was sort of fundamental to to even what we do today.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I love it.

I absolutely love that.

My goodness.

So now, so tell me tell me a little bit about your guys' eye condition, Stargards, because I don't I don't know a lot about that.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Brad and I have a disease, as you said, called Stargardt disease, which is a juvenile form of macular degeneration.

A lot of people's grandparents suffer from it.

But what really it is, it's uh problem metabolizing vitamin A, which over time kills the cells in the center of your vision.

And practically what that means is that Brad and I keep a lot of peripheral vision.

So walking around, you know, uh getting places we can still do, we, you know, Brad and I don't use a white cane or an assistive dog, but you know, recognizing people, reading small print, doing any sort of detail work is is is pretty challenging for us.

SPEAKER_03: Gotcha, gotcha.

So now does that also is that something where I've heard of that I don't know, I I don't even know how to like explain it, but like maybe you get like bursts of light, like in different shapes or or colors, or is that something different?

SPEAKER_00: That's actually my alien abduction story.

The burst of light.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, should that should that be for a whole separate episode?

That's a different content.

SPEAKER_00: With our eyesight, you know, it's really what it is.

It's it's sort of a a blank spot in the center of your vision.

Now it's kind of weird because we don't really see the blank spot because your your brain kind of you know teaches you to look around it and fills it in to some extent.

But it it's really just sort of a very blurry center vision with decent peripheral vision, as Brian said, which helps a lot with mobility.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.

So now, so so I'm curious.

So it was around you said around age five when they started realizing that you had problems with your vision.

And so at that point, then, so I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out as far as was Brian already born then?

SPEAKER_00: Brian was born, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01: Happiest day of your life.

SPEAKER_00: That was it, it was a it was a bad year for for for me.

Uh, you know, yeah, so you know, but Brian basically, I mean, we didn't have, I think maybe we had symptoms prior to, you know, age five, but it's like when you're in kindergarten for the first time and you're, you know, being asked to really kind of see things like everyone else is seeing them and you're in a group setting that I think some of those symptoms started, but also it's degenerative.

So our eyesight when we were sort of first diagnosed was pretty good.

I mean, it was probably like 2060 or 2080 or something.

So we it was probably easy to blend in.

And now I think our vision acuity is around maybe 2400, but it gets hard to measure, I guess they say, after about 2200.

SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Definitely.

So no, I guess so.

I guess what I was wondering was, did they know then that Brian would have this same eye condition?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so what happened with me because Brad had already gone through this whole process, which was kind of a two-year-long nightmare for him and my mom, just because you have to remember at this time there was no gene testing.

Brad can say the name a lot better than I can, but they would have to dye your blood, have the blood flow up to your eye, and then create, and then they'd be able to see the scar pattern by the cells that didn't have died.

This is rudimentary technology back then, but it was the best they had.

So finding it in a child is really, really tough.

But once they had kind of diagnosed Red, when it finally came time to look at me and I started having vision problems, it was pretty quick for them to say this is more than that.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what's called a flangio angiogram.

And it's actually what I voted for the name of my first daughter, but my wife shot it down.

I was like, this'll keep the boy, this will keep the suitors and boys away.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, no, not a lot of stress in the angels.

SPEAKER_03: You guys are too much.

Oh my gosh.

So, okay, so so like, because I was just curious because I remember when you talked about being kindergarten, is I remember that's when I guess I first I had failed like the eye test at school.

And that's when like I started started wearing glasses.

You know, of course, my eye conditions completely different, you know, from your guys's, you know, because mine was all unbeknownst to us, but was, you know, from a brain tumor that I didn't even know I had that was pressing on the optic nerve and stuff.

And so, so anyway, so I just thought I thought that was kind of um an interesting similarity there of you know the kindergarten, you know, kind of being like this pivotal moment of starting to realize, you know, everything's not as wonderful as we thought.

SPEAKER_01: So you know, but it but it is fascinating because Brad and I think about this a lot because we get to talk to so many folks, but you know, getting diagnosed at a young age, you know, in kindergarten and growing up with this as something you've dealt with every single day, you know, and you don't know a different life is very different than somebody who gets diagnosed later in life and has to kind of relearn everything when they're 30 years old.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.

And and I can tell you for for myself who who, you know, I I didn't lose my eyesight till till I was 17 when when they found out that found out I had the brain tumor that was in my junior year of high school, found out I had this brain tumor, went into surgery to have it removed to to literally save my life, and awoke from surgery to be left completely blind.

And that's been one of those like um weird, almost like poetic questions of of, you know, is it would I have rather been blind from the beginning to never then know what I had lost or have the 17 years of sight and appreciate that, you know what I mean, and then use it moving forward.

So, so yeah, I I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01: I wish I was better at poetry so I could answer that question.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: I I th I think that's the thing about it.

There there is no real answer.

You're just supposed to ponder it and hold your chin with your finger and your thumb, you know?

SPEAKER_01: Maybe with a nice cigar and brandy as well.

SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.

Yes, yeah.

So now, so how did this eye condition affect you guys growing up?

As far as just being kids, playing sports, and then even just, you know, like in school and stuff.

SPEAKER_00: So I think what especially since running the Two Blind Brothers project and being able to meet a lot more folks that have visual challenges, I think what Brian and I have come to really appreciate is that this all happens in stages.

You know, the way it affects you when you're first diagnosed is different than it affects you a few years in, is different than it affects how it affects you later in life.

And, you know, and that was true for us, and things can loop back too.

I think when we were first diagnosed, it actually we were completely unaffected by it because our our parents, we looked to our parents for perspective and they, you know, they they treated it like it was any other day.

And I mean, I think behind the scenes they were sort of struggling with it in their own way, but they sort of shielded that attitude from us and allowed us to think that we were as capable as we were the day before.

I think once we got into middle school and high school and even moments in elementary school, you start to realize that you know your situation is a little different than your friend's situation.

And why is it that you have to go up to the front of the board?

And why is it that you have to carry around the you know, two foot-tall large print books and other people don't?

And, you know, and you know, but what what we try to say and where we hope people get to is the understanding that, you know, everybody in life has their own challenges.

And if you aren't born with any or or through tragedy experience them, you will invent them yourself.

And and life has a funny way of presenting them if you don't have enough already.

And so, you know, we we try to think of it as, you know, look, if you are born with not perfect eyesight, that doesn't make you worse than anybody, but it doesn't make you better than anybody.

You, you know, we are who we are, we're all cut from the same cloth.

And the real question is can you embrace those challenges, build resiliency, build assertiveness, and move forward?

SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.

And and to be honest, there's so much power in what you just said and multiple layers there.

And I think first and foremost, I was talking to somebody not too long about about this very topic of people who who've gone through challenges in life, and then those who who kind of go through life and and you know, see seem to not have many challenges.

And and I came to think, you know, I wonder, is that the case?

The people who are the the jerks in life, I feel like they're the ones who didn't go through bad stuff, you know?

And uh, but but no, you know, that was one thing that when when I went blind my junior year of high school, and and from that point forward, you know, I had a lot of people and a lot of, you know, the the kids who I grew up with and stuff, then you know, coming into my senior year and stuff, who I would always get the question, you know, asked of me is, you know, does it annoy me when people, you know, complain about stuff going on in their life, you know?

And I always told everyone, anytime they'd ask me that question, I say, no.

I'm like, because what I'm going through is no different, no more significant than what you're going through.

Now, maybe if we want to look on the big scheme of things, the fact that, you know, the car your parent got you for for your birthday present is the wrong color, you know, maybe, maybe not quite as big a deal as the fact of the guy going blind, but you know, but but you know, and that's why I've always said the, you know, but the honest answer is no, everyone's issues are big to them.

And, you know, and so I think that plays right in, you know, kind of, you know, with what you were just saying.

SPEAKER_01: So yeah, everyone, I mean, no one's no one thinks that their problems are trivial.

And frankly, no one's are because exactly we believe so strongly that it's these challenges, those tough moments, those terrible things that you have to go through when you live your life that actually like make you a better person in the end, that actually like build up your build up your confidence, build up your growth.

You know, you can't grow without those tough situations.

Everything's super easy.

It's hard to become stronger, become better.

It's you know, it's like anything going to the gym or dealing with life experiences, you get stronger the more you do it.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.

It's kind of it's kind of like what I used to tell my little stepbrother growing up.

And when he would fall and and and cut himself, and you know, probably should have a band-aid or something, I'd just say, Oh, it builds character.

SPEAKER_01: You know, it's how much character did he build?

I mean, because I'll tell you, Brad built a lot of character by pushing me down over the year.

I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

So now after school, we you know, fast forwarding through the school days, the high school and stuff.

Where did life kind of take you guys after, after graduating?

What happened then?

SPEAKER_00: So I got a job at a bank in New York, worked there for a little bit, went to grad school, and then went back to finance.

So I was working for an investment firm in New York City.

And after living here for five or six years, Brian, who was, you know, just graduating at that time, ended up working for Oracle.

I'm doing sales for them.

And I actually, I'll, I mean, I don't know why I'm saying it.

He's here on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: So I actually, you know, I was kind of enjoying it.

You know, I it's it's easy.

I'm actually just kicked back here, staring at the ceiling, letting you rock, buddy.

No, you know, I I graduated from college and got a job in sales at Oracle, which ended up being one of the better experiences I've had in my life because it was really fascinating.

You know, I tried to do, I got an internship at a big bank, was maybe the worst intern they've ever had in the history of the bank.

Because there was a lot of spreadsheets, a lot of detail work, and they obviously didn't hire me.

But the the parting advice I got was everyone here likes you, everyone wants you to succeed.

The problem is you just didn't succeed.

And I was like, well, that's nice.

And but the but the crazy part was I took that advice and then I was like, well, if everyone there liked me, that what needs to be done is maybe I need to go and get a job where being liked is valuable.

And so I went and got a job at the biggest sales company that I could find, Oracle.

And what ended up happening was kind of incredible because I went from doing a job at a bank where I was the worst person to out of my class of 500 or a thousand kids, I was the best person.

Because when you're visually impaired, everyone's your best friend until you find out they're a stranger.

And I could apply that same mentality into sales and the same enthusiasm and the same likability and the same passion into sales that was not effectual at a bank.

It was one of those moments that that like she made me realize that leaning into your strength is so, so crucially important.

I mean, I was at a CVS the other day and I barely could use the checkout machine, but like I could run two blind brothers.

Yeah, it's just one of those crazy, crazy things.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.

Well, I think that's pretty awesome.

And to be honest with you, I think probably most people out there listening to this podcast or even not listening to this podcast would absolutely love the to be able to say they absolutely love their job with the same enthusiasm that you that you spoke of your job.

And so that's I think that's actually pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Well, I was always I was really impressed with Brian too, because I I I saw how much he struggled that through the internship when he was here visiting in New York City.

And then I remember he came and he was like, you know, I've got to find something.

Like, I'm good at making these strangers like me.

I think I might go into something like, and I thought he was gonna say like a discount mail strip club, but but then he had the job, then he ended up working at Oracle.

It was, it was great to see.

I mean, and he's being humble because he actually they like rank all the incoming new hires, and he he was ranked at like top 1% of new, you know, prospecting um, because they were prospecting customers for their, you know, their their different software businesses.

But yeah, he he got a lot of accolades there.

SPEAKER_03: And you, the good brother, you are thinking, wow, he's such a loser.

How is he how's he ranking so high?

SPEAKER_00: I was like, what kind of bullshit did he pull to get these people who think he's doing a good job?

SPEAKER_01: It's it's nice when you have the password of the system where they're ranking people.

That was the case.

SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness, that's so funny.

So now, so at what point then did you know you You guys got these two awesome careers.

You're doing amazing.

So then, how in the world do we transition over to starting a clothing company?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

So Brad and I were, I moved to New York at this point, and Brad and I were both walking around one weekend, and we were talking about, I don't know if you're familiar with Yannick Duway, who is the first patient with labor's congenital omerosis, actually cured of blindness by a drug from Spark Therapeutics.

It was this was at the clinical trial.

And we thought that was just amazing because it was all from like a small charitable gift in 1996 from the Foundation Fighting Blindness.

Well, we're kind of talking about this, having a goofy time.

We're walking into a clothing store because Brad told me if we were going to keep hanging out, I'd address better.

I thought it was a little, I thought he was wrong, but looking back, he there may have been a couple merits to what he was saying.

And I so we walk into this Bloomingdales of all places, and and you've you've probably experienced this, or anybody out there bought it visually impressed.

Shopping sucks.

Like it's so annoying because looking at I I walk in, we touch everything like we're five years old until we feel something quality.

Because looking at the prices, the sizes, the color, the brand just takes forever.

And unless I like what this piece of clothing feels like, I'm just not gonna do it.

And so on this fateful day, Brad and I had lost each other as soon as we walked in the store, because two blind guys in any place usually leads to one going missing.

And we and then so I about 45 minutes later, we're both standing out front of this Bloomingdale's, and Brad goes, Oh, what'd you get?

And I pull out my the shirt I had bought, and we had actually bought the exact same shirt.

What?

And I know it was like one of these mind-boggling moments.

But what was really, really cool was we were like, okay, why is that?

This is so outrageous, but how could this be?

And we realized the answer was because the touch and the feel of the fabric was so soft and so comfortable and felt so high quality that we both had just struck upon this.

And then we had like a lightning bolt from heaven moment of, hey, let's make the best fitting and feeling clothing in the world, and let's give 100% of our profits back to curing blindness so that you know the next cure for the next disease can come from that next researcher.

And that was the birth of two blind brothers.

SPEAKER_03: Wow, wow, wow, wow.

That's pretty amazing.

Now, now backing up before all of a sudden this lightning bolt of inspiration struck the two of you outside of uh Bloomingdale's, is I have to say that I find the way that you said that the two of you shop for clothes very intriguing because I will tell you for myself, when I go shopping, I go shopping with somebody who can see.

And so when I go into the store and you know, we go over to to my section and you know, we're scanning through stuff, you know, I'm relying on them to make the initial thing of, you know, they, you know, I'm telling them what color shirt, you know, I'm looking for, what brand I like, you know.

And so they're they're pulling out shirts, you know, that that kind of match what I'm looking for.

And at that point, then I'm feeling them, asking about the details and stuff.

But what I like about what you guys just said that you do is that you take it from the blind perspective first, focusing on what it feels like, then we try and narrow it down by what it looks like.

SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, we needed to narrow it down somehow.

So that we we always started with that.

You know, and Brian and I, I feel like we have this joint attitude, whether it's shopping or, you know, or at a restaurant or wherever we're going, like we kind of embrace this idea of sort of thrusting yourself upon society and to get and then getting the help that both makes the situation better for you and the people around you.

I mean, with no judgment and no malice, but you know, if we're walking into a store, we'll try to figure out what we want, we'll use the rudimentary skills that we have to, you know, kind of stumble through it.

And then and then we'll, you know, and then inevitably somebody will come over and say, okay, you've touched every item in our store.

Can I please help you?

SPEAKER_01: The term you're looking for is somebody takes pity on us.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Wow.

So so let me ask a question just out of my pure curiosity.

Because unless you're you're walking into a store that's specific for men's clothing, I mean, I'm sure there's some women's clothes that feel very nice.

Has that ever posed an issue with that?

SPEAKER_00: I've got a beautiful blouse that I still can't get rid of.

SPEAKER_01: And me and looks radiant in it.

You know, it really is special.

SPEAKER_03: You guys are too much, too much.

Okay, so back to now where we had left off in the story.

You come out, you guys realize you both pick out the same shirt, which is just pretty amazing in of itself.

And then you have this, you know, lightning strike moment.

And and you know, and and to do this, and to really, though, the whole premise of the clothing thing, from what I got out of what you said, wasn't really like, hey, like we need to start this clothing business, but more or less, let's do something that that's targeted at, you know, for for the way we shop that a blind, and then going back to benefit the blind by, you know, donating your proceeds or however that works.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, Brad and I started this whole project with absolutely zero aspirations of it ever being successful.

You know, we really just started this from a place of, hey, we'll make a few, we'll make a few hundred shirts, we'll have some fun, we'll learn about e-commerce, we'll learn about marketing, we'll maybe raise some awareness and sell some t-shirts and and and have a great time of the way.

And, you know, throughout our whole lives, Brad and I have had all these little projects.

I think we were selling sand dollars on the beach one time when we were kids.

We made a micro budget movie with a friend in North Carolina.

Like we just loved doing fun, interesting little projects together.

And this one just happened to take off because but but the cool part for us is the moment it got Eddie recognition, the moment it helped one person, it had already succeeded in its major goal.

But really, what the impetus was we had a buddy who is a Starbucks barista by day, videographer by night, kind of a poor man's Batman, if you will.

He he comes and says, Hey, let me shoot a brand video for you guys.

And we said, Okay, sure.

And we sit down one day, we just shoot this video where we talk about being brothers, being about the shirts, about curing blindness, about growing up with a retinal eye disease.

But it took all day because Brad and I had never been in front of a camera before in our entire lives.

Like this was the first ever experience.

And you know, he cuts this thing down, and it was so powerful what he had done.

And when we put it out on Facebook that first time, it just exploded.

Every you know, we had friends coming out of the woodwork, being able to see it, and we saw so many folks sharing it and saying, Hey, Aunt, it doesn't isn't this what Aunt Jody has?

You know, and just this visually impaired community just lifted up this video and lifted up our message to a point that we just truly couldn't believe.

It was one of the most like awe-inspiring, humbling moments of my life.

SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's pretty amazing.

That's so amazing.

So, so now how how though do two guys who have no, you know, no background in the clothing line, I'm sitting and thinking, like, how do you how do you even go about deciding, okay, well, like what fabric to use and who in the world are we gonna get to make clothes?

I mean, how did that how did that even happen?

SPEAKER_00: The short answer is we made a lot of mistakes along the way.

The technical answer is we had a friend here in New York City whose whole business was kind of helping small, you know, fashion and design companies kind of get their first product runs done.

So she helped us a lot early on as well.

And so, so but but it took forever.

We made a lot of mistakes, and it really took us a long time to kind of figure out the product side of the equation.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely, definitely.

That's awesome.

So now, no, tell everybody though, I think something really unique about your clothes is the incorporation of Braille.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so this was actually a so in all of Two Blind Brothers shirts, you know, we originally on our on the left sleeve just had a you know a raised or had a metal tag with braille on it because Brad and I, growing up as kids, learned Braille because my parents had no idea how far our vision was gonna go.

So they wanted us to make sure we knew it.

And we think it's pretty aesthetically beautiful, and and everyone kind of knows the iconography of it.

And so we have the on the left sleeve, we have kind of a phrase or a saying or a word.

But the coolest part is on the bottom right hem of all of most of our shirts, we actually have the color of the shirt in braille, raised braille.

So if you are blind or visually impaired and you're going through your closet, yes, there are technologies, yes, there are tools you can use with your iPhone and stuff you can do, but really you can feel down, find the shelf the shirt, pull it out, and then know what color it is.

And a woman reached out to us and said it kind of beautifully.

She said, in the morning, I don't want to use technology, I just kind of want to get dressed.

And we were so happy to be able to help with that.

SPEAKER_03: No, that's so awesome.

And and I can tell you, I can relate to what she's saying because, you know, the technology is absolutely amazing.

And and, you know, I have all these different apps on my iPhone that I that I can use, but sometimes you just want to be able to do things the simple way, where you don't have to bust out the phone.

You don't want to have to, you know, use FaceTime or use like the Be My Eyes app.

You know, sometimes you just want to be able to simplify things.

And that's just like such this amazing way of simplifying, figuring out what color your clothes are.

So I think that's really amazing.

SPEAKER_01: Thank you.

I we we love it.

It's it's so and it's beautiful.

I mean, it looks so cool on the garment.

And the other thing that's awesome is people get to see it.

And they once somebody sees it, they go, Oh, isn't that Braille on your shirt?

And it allows for a conversation to be had with the garment and talk about blindness in a cool positive way rather than you know me trying to feel my way into the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

Well, well, I have to say that you guys have um something else that we're gonna talk about a little bit later on called, you know, the shot blind challenge.

Well, I had recently participated in that and and had went first time that I ever thought I could successfully um buy my mom some clothes for for her birthday.

And I thought, oh, this is perfect.

She can't blame it on me if they're ugly.

I I participated in the shot blind challenge.

You know, blame it on you know uh Brian and Bradford.

SPEAKER_01: Blame it on it so easy.

I actually I tell everybody to blame any of their problems on it's my favorite hobby.

SPEAKER_03: And so I have to tell you that the the two shirts that she received, I thought it was super cool because just as you're talking about, it was so easy to feel the braille down on the hem.

The shirts that she had had the braille up on the sleeve, like you were talking about, that said the word feel.

And then though, what I thought was super cool was the one one of the shirts was almost like this like really cool like graphic tee.

And it had Braille and like lettering and stuff like on the front of it.

And of course, you know, to somebody maybe who, you know, doesn't know Braille, maybe they don't know what it says.

So, you know, I immediately told my mom, you know, mom, I had this custom made for you.

It's like, you know, Kevin's mom is the best.

SPEAKER_01: You know?

I haven't heard that before.

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_03: In actuality, I think it said something like mind over matter or something, something, something a little bit more, uh, a little bit better.

But you know, I was like, this is awesome.

I can tell her it says whatever I want, you know?

So but but cool.

So now at some point, we of course we we have to get to the Ellen show because, you know, more so than just the fact that you're on the Ellen show, and how can you not talk about that?

But that's actually the first time that I ever even heard about you guys was was actually watching.

SPEAKER_00: That that's the first time anybody, except for maybe the hundred people we've encountered in our lives that are.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so so how in the world did that come about?

Because I think everyone would like to know how in the world did these guys get on the Ellen show?

SPEAKER_00: You know, I wish we could kind of make the claim that we're some sort of brilliant PR masters.

But what ended up happening is we got we started to get a little bit of news interest when our friend made that video on our brand.

And so we got an interview request from Fox Five here in New York, chasing uh the chasing news segment.

And it was really wild for Brian and I because we'd never been on, you know, never done a news segment before.

We were getting interviewed on our brand, which was two months old at that point.

But that ended up leading to a story by a social media news network called Now This that puts out these kind of short stories.

And so we did that, and that that was really exciting too.

They had like millions of followers on Facebook, but you know, we we were just constantly surprised.

We thought after that Fox Five interview, it was gonna be champagne and sailboats for two blind brothers, which was not the case at all.

We were like, oh, we got like six sales, that's great.

So then the uh Ellen producer, one of the Ellen producers, saw that now this segment and reached out.

And it's funny because we had a customer service line for the, you know, one customer we had a week, and we had a former um employee at my other job who would kind of help me a little bit with it.

And so she picked up the phone and I saw her covering her mouth.

I thought like our one customer of the week was screaming at her, but then she puts the phone down and says, Oh my God, you won't believe it.

It's a it's a producer from the Ellen show.

So we set up this big, we, you know, they set up a time to talk.

And, you know, I was really, really nervous that we were just so new.

I I was mostly concerned with making sure we sounded like a big, credible, you know, big mission kind of uh project.

And I I completely read the situation so, so wrong.

The real reason we got on the show is when we did this interview, Brian came home from his job at this time uh at a data company and doing a lot of cold calling.

So I guess he was he was warmed up.

But this producer Courtney says, Hey guys, how's it going?

And I'm about to launch into my presentation, and Brian leans over my shoulder and just screams, Courtney, it's sweater weather in New York City.

Those bad boys are finally out of the closet.

So how do you think I'm feeling?

And all of a sudden, I'm I'm like in utter shock.

And the phone is now silent.

And I'm like, dude, why are you trying to hit a home run on the how are you doing?

Like, can we at least establish that we're normal people before we start screen?

And then Courtney on the other line, we just it sounds like she's choking, but she's laughing.

And I was like, oh, I was like, keep going.

I just shut up the rest of the call.

So, so about 30 seconds later, she's like, Okay, I've heard enough.

I need to accelerate this to my senior producer.

And uh short shortly after that, we were able to get on.

Oh, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_03: So, so how how was not only just like the Ellen show, but but the result for Tubine Brothers afterwards?

SPEAKER_01: Well, the Ellen show itself was unarguable or uh probably the one of the most terrifying moments of my entire just it's you're there's you're you're you're asked to walk out in front of six million people and just and as they said, just be yourself.

And I was like, I like me.

I don't know if I six million people like me.

Yeah, like what am I going after here?

And so, you know, but the the show was so fun, so extraordinary.

The whole their whole team made you feel very welcome, but you know, a lot of energy, a lot of excitement, a lot of joy.

And and then what happened afterwards actually, because it it it airs a day after it you filmed, and Brad and I were on a flight back from LA when it aired.

And so when we hit the ground, like you know, you know, when you're about like 200 feet from touchdown on the airplane, your phone starts pinging, and we it just phone blew up.

Everyone I had ever met was saying hi.

The business had just gotten thrust into this national spotlight.

We had tons and tons of orders, tons and tons of great outreach.

It it parlayed some amazing opportunities, like partnering with you know, an organization in Texas that employs blind and visually impaired workers who were who we moved our manufacturing to do our cut and sew to, and just really took this little clothing project that could that had no aspirations and transformed it into something special.

SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's absolutely awesome.

That is so amazing.

And and so you you actually just mentioned something that I think is really amazing.

So, so you guys are actually using the center in Texas that employs blind people to make the clothes that that people are ordering and and buying.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that that was Dallas Lighthouse for the Blind now Envision.

So we actually had to move from that specific facility.

They ended up getting rid of their the apparel manufacturing line that they had there.

But we do work with an organization now in Winston-Salem, Industries for the Blind.

They help make some of our products, like our uh sunglasses, which have been awesome.

And yeah, I I don't think people realize that these organizations exist.

I mean, they're they exist all over the country.

These these organizations where the workforce is 70% blind or visually impaired.

They, you know, do a lot of government contract work, a lot of like big bulk manufacturing, but we didn't know about it until they reached out to us after the uh Ellen show.

And it was really, really cool to be able to incorporate that into our business.

SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.

That's so awesome.

So awesome.

Well, and so how long ago was the Ellen show appearance?

January 4th of 2017.

Okay, okay, awesome, awesome, awesome.

Wow, man.

Well, you guys are doing amazing.

I love it.

Now, now, everybody probably by this point, if they've been hanging around the podcast for an episode or two, they're probably thinking, you know, I feel like I've heard about these guys before.

And it's because I had, you know, talked about it a little bit earlier was y'all's uh, you know, shot blind challenge.

And, you know, well, I actually I kind of stole the idea from you here on the podcast.

Oh no.

I did, but I gave you guys credit.

And so and so you guys actually inspired me with something here on my podcast.

Cause, you know, I always say that, you know, the the reason I love podcasting so much is the fact that everyone listening to the podcast can't see, just like me.

And so I've always said it gives people an opportunity to get to know people the way I do.

And um, where you don't have that, you know, as I say, a visual distraction.

And you don't get to to come up with, you know, opinions in your brain, you know, with with without even meeting a person first of who they are, you know.

And so I thought when I had saw that that you guys were doing this shop buying challenge, I was like, I thought it was so awesome.

And I thought, you know what?

That's exactly what I want to start doing here on the podcast.

And so that's what I started and doing a monthly challenge here that I called the listen blind challenge, where I encourage my listeners for that specific episode to take the time to listen to that episode with their eyes closed in the hopes that they can, you know, really get to dive into what you know my guest is talking about and, you know, see if they can just kind of, you know, see the person in a little bit deeper, more meaningful way, like I do.

And so, so with that, I would love for you guys to share about this idea that I stole from you and actually tell me about the shop blind challenge and and how people can participate in that.

SPEAKER_00: I can tell you about it.

It's been amazing for our project.

I mean, it is now the main experience that somebody will encounter if they come.

To our website just because people have really enjoyed it.

It's been good for a project.

It's been good for getting new customers.

But essentially, Brian and I always talk about how one of the greatest tools that we have, sort of under the radar tools, is being able to put trust into strangers in our lives.

So, in that example of us shopping in the store, to turn to a sales associate and say, hey, I'm trying to find something.

Can you help me out?

Or what do you recommend?

Or if we're at a restaurant and we don't have the braille menu or want to zoom in with our iPhones, you know, to be able to ask the waiter or the person next to us, you know, what, you know, what do you like?

These little acts of trust, these tiny, tiny little acts of trust actually give us a lot of independence and lift us up.

And very, very, very rarely are we sort of disappointed with the advice or the help that we're getting.

And we thought, can we create this experience on our website?

And so what we did is we took our main landing page and we removed everything: no products, no images, no descriptions, just a price point and a question.

Will you shop blind?

And the only promises that we make are that, you know, we put a lot of love and care into the product.

So we think that, you know, the customer will love them too, and that 100% of the profits, you know, go back to our charitable partner, the foundation fighting blindness.

And it's been amazing.

You know, I would say in the last year, one thing that's really come out of it is people posting their kind of unboxings and reactions on on social media, particularly on TikTok.

That's really helped it grow.

And uh it's been really fun, you know, and and it's funny, we say, you know, it's really not about being blind.

It's about it, it's not a real lesson in blindness, it's a lesson in trust, which we think blindness can be a great conduit for.

And it's created conversations and and it it's been just a blessing for for our brand.

SPEAKER_03: Well, I I have to say that I totally love it.

And and I know that, you know, I have gotten to participate with my family in multiple dining in the dark events that have been put on by the different blind centers.

And and that, you know, if if you know you listening don't know what that is, it's amazing.

An opportunity where where the sighted get to be just like the blind, go into a completely darked out dining room and try to eat dinner.

And it's always cracked me up that, you know, my family can't seem to put a fork in their mouth without seeing it.

And it's not and so I do, I just thought this this whole idea that you guys came up with for that, I think is really amazing.

And so I just think it's awesome.

And I guess I guess my last question for you guys is is where do you see life going from here?

Because I mean, I must say, I mean, with with the success that you guys had, I mean, even just talking about growing up and and and with these parents who kind of instilled this thing in you that you know life goes on and and you can have this amazing life.

And and then the fact that you guys did and have these awesome careers, and then have this clothing line and stuff.

I'm like, what's next for these guys?

SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I can I can take that.

One answer is fatherhood.

Brad actually, we're waiting, you know, we're I'm waiting for the text message from Brad because I think his wife is due any day now.

So we're very excited about that.

And my wife is is pregnant, so we're gonna both be dads here in the next eight months or so, which is exciting.

But I, you know, from from the business perspective, I would say, you know, when we first started Two Blind Brothers, our goal was to make soft clothing and donate money to researchers, and we want to continue to do that at whatever scale we can, as big as we can get, the most we can donate.

That's 100% what we want to do.

But what we also found once we got a little more attention is the community of folks that are blind or visually impaired that have sprung up around us, that we get to go back in time and give some of the advice that we wish we heard as kids and just go and be as a be a any sort of role model or put out a message of empowerment or just make somebody laugh a little on a bad day.

And Brad and I try and take as much time as we can every week to chat with people, help people do whatever we can.

And so the enrichment and empowerment of blind and visually impaired community has kind of become the third pillar of our of our brand and something that we want to make sure that we're focusing on as much as the other two because we think it's just as valuable.

SPEAKER_03: I love it.

And and what I love about what I love about you guys, I love about the brand to Blind Brothers is this fact of this overall theme of giving back.

It's giving back to, you know, your community, giving back to, you know, the blind community.

I I think it speaks very highly of both of you that you know, that you have this, you know, desire in your heart.

And now, especially giving back, you know, in the way of just you know, being there to mentor and help other people, I think, I think it's just really awesome.

I know that's something that brings me great joy, is anytime that I feel like, you know, whatever the circumstance is, is that you've if you've already been through it, the fact that if you can turn around and then help somebody else who's going through it, you know, that's just one of those things to me that makes the world a little bit better place.

And you guys are definitely playing a big role in that.

So I applaud you both very much.

SPEAKER_00: Well, we really, we really appreciate it.

You know, to be honest, you know, Brian and I don't even really credit ourselves with with being super minded towards social impact, but we started this as an experiment.

And now I think we fundamentally believe that the more you give, the more you get.

And without Two Blind Brothers, we wouldn't have been able to get to know the community.

We wouldn't be able to have a voice on the topics of the community or the research that we're helping fund.

We wouldn't have the fun of getting to do things like this or the other kind of media stuff.

And it's just been uh it's been a great, great adventure.

And it's really all occurred because people are willing to share the message.

So, you know, it's it's it's folks like yourself that have have really kind of lifted us up and and we're the beneficiaries of a very strong, you know, community that that seems to have each other's back.

SPEAKER_03: Awesome, awesome.

Well, well, Bradford, Brian, I want to thank you guys from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to be on my podcast.

It means the world to me.

And I can only hope that something you guys have said today, shared, you know, today will positively impact, you know, the person listening to us today.

And, you know, heck, if nothing else, maybe they'll be uh ready to uh go to the show notes and uh click a link and go uh maybe shop blind for the first time.

So so guys, thank you and for you listening.

I hope you have enjoyed another conversation here on the podcast.

And, you know, as always, I hope it somehow positively impacts your life and you know, in the hope that it makes tomorrow a little bit better than today.

And that's the lowdown with Kevin Lowe.

I hope today's episode inspired you, motivated you, and excited you to get out and enjoy life, no matter what obstacles may be standing in the way.