#400: What It Really Takes to Escape Your Circumstances: From Small-Town Poverty to Commercial Airline Pilot

Kevin Lowe: From flying over fields to flying across the world, Donald Osborne is proof that a dream, even so big that it scares you, can indeed come true.

Kevin Lowe: You might consider today's episode a celebration for the podcast, the 400th episode.

Kevin Lowe: We're just over five years running and baby, what a journey it's been.

Kevin Lowe: But honestly, it's bigger than that.

Kevin Lowe: It's bigger than just an interview because today is a reminder that no matter how big your dreams are, no matter how big and scary they may be, my friend, if you have the dream, it's for a reason.

Kevin Lowe: And I believe it's a reason for you to make it come true. And the biggest thing, the most important thing that I want you to remember, is it's never about where you start, but rather where you land.

Kevin Lowe: My friend, I'm your host, Kevin Lowe. And it is my honor, my pleasure to welcome you to our 400th episode of Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, I got grit, grace, and inspiration on my mind.

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Kevin Lowe: What's going on and welcome back to Grit, Grace and Inspiration.

Kevin Lowe: Today, I have the pleasure of being in the studio with none other than Don Osborne.

Kevin Lowe: Don, man, a pleasure to have you here. Welcome to the show.

Donald Osborn: Yeah, I sure appreciate it. I love the invite and it's great talking to you again, Kevin.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, man. Well, Don, I'm excited to get to explore your story.

Kevin Lowe: Obviously, a big part of our story today is really going to be kind of following a lot of, of your book that you have that we're going to get to talk all about today.

Kevin Lowe: My hope is to kind of get to explore the book kind of firsthand from you and, and, and, Obviously, I guess the most logical place for us to start today is to me ask, where did the love for flying or maybe even before it turned into a love, the excitement, the enthusiasm about flying, where did that even start at in your life?

Donald Osborn: I think some of it is one of my first memories. And I remember watching an airplane go over.

Donald Osborn: And so it probably was deep-seated, you know, from a very early age.

Donald Osborn: I grew up in a very small town in western Nebraska, Shadron, Nebraska.

Donald Osborn: And the idea of getting out of there was a tremendous goal, you know, because it's like anything. You don't realize what you have until you're gone.

Donald Osborn: I wanted to see the rest of the world. I wanted to see what was over the hill.

Donald Osborn: And it seemed like flying airplanes was the way to do that.

Donald Osborn: And the more I got to know about airplanes, it just became my passion.

Donald Osborn: I suppose basically, first of all, I wanted to be a rock and roll star, but the talent thing kind of got in the way.

Donald Osborn: So I could work to be a pilot. I'll never be a better guitar player, singer, no matter how hard I work.

Kevin Lowe: I hear you. I hear you. I love it. I love it. Now, are you from Nebraska?

Kevin Lowe: Is that where you were born and raised?

Donald Osborn: Yes, I was born in Shadder, Nebraska. It's right on the Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska border. Okay.

Donald Osborn: About 100 miles from anywhere.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Now, that part of Nebraska, am I imagining, right, I'm imagining a lot of just farmland?

Donald Osborn: Farmland. And one interesting thing about that part of Nebraska, it is a lot hilly, almost forest-like. Most people that just fly over or drive through the interstate, they don't see that part of Nebraska.

Donald Osborn: But there's areas I could take you up there and you would think you're in Colorado if you didn't know better.

Kevin Lowe: Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. Amazing. So in terms of flying goes, when did you really kind of really start exploring it?

Kevin Lowe: Because I mean, I think of flying as something that you really can't start doing until you're an adult, but it started for you earlier in your teenage years, correct?

Donald Osborn: Yeah. When you read the book, you'll find out there was a guy that had an airplane out at the edge of town.

Donald Osborn: And I used to watch that thing fly in. Well, as soon as I see that thing, I would try to follow and see where he lands.

Donald Osborn: And so after a few attempts, I saw where he was landing. I saw the hangar that he's pushing it into.

Donald Osborn: I knew somehow I had to get in there and see that airplane, see it up close.

Donald Osborn: Being at that age and not very mature, I didn't think just to knock on his door and say, hey, I'm interested in airplanes.

Donald Osborn: Would you show me your airplane, which probably would have been the way to do it with hindsight.

Donald Osborn: So I broke into his hangar, basically. I snuck in off the side to a little hole that I pulled siding loose, and I would hang in, hang around in that hangar, just looking at the airplane, imagining what it must do and wondering what all these things inside did.

Donald Osborn: The love of the mechanics of it, the airplane, the idea of flying was just ingrained in me pretty deeply.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Now, what what kind of airplane was this?

Kevin Lowe: Or I mean, more importantly, for us who don't know anything about airplanes, like what did it look like as as you as a kid looking at this airplane?

Donald Osborn: It was a small, yellow, high-wing airplane, which was a tail dragger.

Donald Osborn: For me, looking at it as a kid, it was the biggest, most powerful, exciting machine I'd ever seen in my life.

Donald Osborn: I'd been around tractors and old cars and that type of thing to that point, but the fact that this thing had wings and a propeller on it was just horribly exciting to me.

Donald Osborn: I thought, there's got to be a way somehow I can get this thing into the sky.

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely. Now...

Kevin Lowe: Would you ever get to the point where you actually would go as far as climbing up inside of it and sitting in the plane?

Donald Osborn: I hate to admit it because I'm sure the statute of limitations are over, but I figured out how to get the door open and climb into it.

Donald Osborn: And I would move the, it had a stick in the center of it.

Donald Osborn: And I'd move that around, imagining, I wonder what this thing does.

Donald Osborn: And it was a very simple airplane, but I'd look at these four gauges that were in there and the throttle was off to the side. And I would just wonder, I wonder what all this stuff does.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, amazing. So I have to ask, at some point, because every story has a climax, I'm going to imagine at some point you got caught.

Donald Osborn: I got caught. The guy came walking in the hangar and I was engrossed and I was in the airplane.

Donald Osborn: And I saw, well, I heard somebody coming in.

Donald Osborn: I felt the door, could see the door opening. So I was out of that airplane through my little trap door that I had built and jumped on my buzz bike and pedaled away as fast as I could. And he kind of ran me down.

Donald Osborn: And he said, so you're that little SOB that's been breaking into my hangar.

Donald Osborn: And I like to say that was the start of my career.

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

Donald Osborn: He turned out to be a very nice gentleman and kind of took me under his wing, no pun intended, a little bit, and gave me my first seven or eight airplane lessons and actually sold with me.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. So you have this man who catches this little SOB who's been breaking in his barn, but he doesn't tell you to just get lost, but he then literally starts to teach you how to fly.

Donald Osborn: Exactly right. And then I can remember it was $12 an hour, and that included him, the airplane, the fuel, everything.

Donald Osborn: And back then, $12 was a lot of money to come up with.

Donald Osborn: So if you look in my old logbook, you could see about every 7 to 10 days I had a flight lesson.

Donald Osborn: Because of that, it took me about 7 to 10 days to come up with that $12.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

Donald Osborn: And one funny little story is a common question that you get asked over and over and over in this business is, what's the scariest thing that's ever happened to you in flying?

Donald Osborn: And I like to say it was showing up for a flight lesson with Frank without $12.

Kevin Lowe: If you showed up without your $12, did you get to fly or no fly?

Donald Osborn: The first couple of times he let me slide, but after he made it clear from now on, you come up with that money. So.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. Now, how at that age, this time, how would you come up with that money?

Kevin Lowe: What would you do for work?

Donald Osborn: Well, I had a job in my uncle's gas station, and I still remember that paid 50 cents an hour.

Donald Osborn: And I would mow lawns, shovel snow, collect pot bottles, you name it.

Donald Osborn: You know, back then, pot bottles were two cents a piece, and the grocery store would pay you cash when you brought them in.

Donald Osborn: Lots of odd jobs, you know, kind of anything for a buck.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, that's amazing. Now, I'm kind of curious about once you actually got to go up in this plane with Frank.

Kevin Lowe: I mean, it's one thing to have this idea of what it must be like.

Kevin Lowe: But when you actually went up that first time, do you remember, like, did it meet those expectations? Was it scary?

Kevin Lowe: Did it just get you even more hyped about it? I'm kind of curious how that went.

Donald Osborn: Actually, I still remember it was a surprise because in my mind, I had imagined that flying an airplane, It'd be like muscles, erratic movements, like, you know, flying that thing like I stole it, you know, just, you know, stop to stop, hardcore, you know, just like there's a machine gun shooting out of it.

Donald Osborn: And as it turns out, you get up there and he teaches me right off the bat. It's very light touch.

Donald Osborn: You know, you apply pressure to this thing. You don't turn it.

Donald Osborn: You don't push it. You don't steer it like a car. And I can remember thinking, huh, that's not anything like I imagined it would be.

Donald Osborn: It's habits over 50 years. When I drive a car, a lot of people look over at me because I've, you fly a jet with two fingers usually when you're in most cases.

Donald Osborn: So when I'm driving the car, I'll have those two fingers on the steering wheel down resting on my knee and just force a habit, you know.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, no, that that is absolutely amazing.

Kevin Lowe: It's obviously a much more gentle type thing than you would expect.

Donald Osborn: Exactly. It's it's the idea of one as an instructor.

Donald Osborn: I used to tell new students a lot. I said, fly this thing like your grandmother's in the backseat there and she's terrified of flying.

Donald Osborn: So you don't want to do anything that's going to scare her.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. That's that's awesome. Now, talk to me a little bit about your experience flying.

Kevin Lowe: I mean, you were at this point, you were only 14, correct?

Donald Osborn: Yeah, I think I was very close to 15 when he actually let me fly it by myself, which, again, was illegal.

Donald Osborn: You technically need to be 16, especially nowadays. You have to almost be in an approved school and meet lots of requirements.

Donald Osborn: Back then, it was a little more lax, but it still had the 16-year rule.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. How was that? I mean, one thing going from flying with somebody, but you didn't fly it by yourself after not that long.

Kevin Lowe: That has to be somewhat terrifying.

Donald Osborn: You know, I don't know that I don't know that terrifying is the word.

Donald Osborn: You're so engrossed in what you're supposed to do and how you're going to do it. Your mind's pretty busy, even as a young kid.

Donald Osborn: And I always like to think and I tell students is the second time you solo might be a little more scary than the first time because you kind of know what to expect.

Donald Osborn: But again, as an instructor, most of my life, I can look at these students and see, you know, some of them are nervous.

Donald Osborn: Some of them can't wait to get me out of the airplane.

Donald Osborn: You know, others are halfway between.

Donald Osborn: So I think it's a matter of preparation. You're ready to do this thing.

Donald Osborn: You know, you're ready to go.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Now, I read one thing in the book that I would love to have you tell the story about was, I don't think it was real long, maybe after you started flying solo, that you snuck a buddy on board.

Donald Osborn: Yeah, I'm glad that I'm at the stage of my career now. The SA really can't come after me.

Donald Osborn: I got to add also, it's fun being interviewed by somebody who's actually read the book.

Donald Osborn: A lot of times they're just ad libbing it. But yeah, the second time I ever soloed an airplane, nobody really told me not to do this. So I had a feeling maybe it wasn't.

Donald Osborn: And I put a friend of mine in that airplane you flew from the back seat.

Donald Osborn: And it was a tandem thing. So I put him in the back seat. And for the first time, I flew from the front just not knowing.

Donald Osborn: So that was kind of a different feeling. But, yeah, I took him up in the airplane, took him for a little ride.

Donald Osborn: I was kind of messing around up there just, again, out of sheer ignorance.

Donald Osborn: It wasn't it wasn't cockiness. It wasn't arrogant.

Donald Osborn: It was just ignorant. I simply didn't know any better.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

Donald Osborn: And again, to fly a passenger, you have to have a private license, be 17 years old and have nowadays.

Donald Osborn: Nowadays, a private pilot can take up to 100 hours to actually get his license.

Donald Osborn: The requirement is 40 hours.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Now, what was kind of like the time era when at this point in your life, like what kind of year were we looking at back then?

Donald Osborn: Well, let's see. That would have been in the mid 70s. I graduated high school from in 75.

Donald Osborn: So, yeah, this would have been 73.

Kevin Lowe: OK.

Donald Osborn: 72, 73.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, I guess because I'm sitting here, I'm like the things we could get away with out in the middle of nowhere back in the 70s that just probably wouldn't happen today.

Donald Osborn: Yeah, I think about that a lot and all kinds of stuff, you know, I mean, I mean, now the parents are so close hovering over their kids.

Donald Osborn: You know, when we were kids, we'd head out into the woods and, you know, my mom knew that I'd be back for by dinnertime or at least right before it's dark.

Donald Osborn: And we would put our 22 rifles on our buzz bikes, go down to the local Western Auto, buy a box of shells, 22 shells. and the guy would hand them to us and say, going out to shoot rats at the dump?

Donald Osborn: Yep, that's where we're going. We'd ride our bikes right down Main Street with the .22s, you know, strapped to the back, and nobody even so much is looked up.

Kevin Lowe: That is just awesome.

Donald Osborn: Imagine that today. I mean, there would be SWAT teams.

Kevin Lowe: There would. There would. Yeah, sadly enough. Yes.

Donald Osborn: Exactly. That's exactly right. Sadly enough.

Kevin Lowe: Now, speaking of family, did your parents, siblings, did they know about this whole flying endeavor that you were doing?

Donald Osborn: I was raised by a single parent. My mom raised four of us.

Donald Osborn: And we were pretty much a poverty type situation.

Donald Osborn: So, you know, we never went hungry, thanks to my mom would work several jobs, but we didn't have much extra money at all.

Donald Osborn: And so I didn't really want my mom to know that I was, you know, she, she asked several times, what do you do with all that money you're making?

Donald Osborn: Cause she knew I was working hard and I just say, I'm saving it. I'm saving it up.

Donald Osborn: So she found out, you know, obviously, oh, probably after I had my private license that I was flying and she was pretty much a homebody, would have been a perfect farm lady and didn't really have much interest in anything like that. So her idea was work.

Donald Osborn: You know, what was important to her is how much work you were doing right now today.

Donald Osborn: You know, how much work you did yesterday or what you might do tomorrow didn't matter to us.

Donald Osborn: How hard are you working right now? You know, gardening, shoveling, building, that was all acceptable pastimes in her mind.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. So I guess would you say that you get your worth ethic from your mom?

Donald Osborn: Definitely, yeah. That was her life. My mom worked and she solved most of her issues by working harder than she did the day before.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. Wow. That's amazing. So to flying, I mean, you're a teenage boy.

Kevin Lowe: Did you think that this would ever turn into a career path?

Donald Osborn: I never, never really wanted to do anything else.

Donald Osborn: And so I didn't know how it was going to happen and I didn't really have any guidance.

Donald Osborn: But yeah, I always imagined I'd be in a big airplane flying across the ocean someday.

Donald Osborn: And, you know, that came to happen.

Kevin Lowe: So, wow. Now, so I guess I would love to hear what is the story?

Kevin Lowe: How do you go from this this teenage boy flying the neighbor's plane to actually becoming a commercial pilot?

Donald Osborn: Back then, a lot of it was luck. A lot of it was on your own.

Donald Osborn: You you have to get licenses.

Donald Osborn: I was lucky enough to get my flight instructor's license right before I started college.

Donald Osborn: So through college, I was able to flight instruct quite a bit, build some hours, and actually fly some charter.

Donald Osborn: And so by the time I was out of college, I had enough hours that a flight school in Phoenix looked at me seriously enough to hire me.

Donald Osborn: And then from there, it was very turbulent times in the airlines.

Donald Osborn: Airlines were going out of business.

Donald Osborn: Corporations were going out of business. So a lot of my career was just trying to keep a job.

Donald Osborn: Now, contrast that today. I mean, there's a huge pilot shortage and somebody wanting to be a pilot today.

Donald Osborn: There are thousands of programs and universities, airlines willing to take them in as a student or a possible just they're willing to invest in people nowadays to get them into that cockpit and make a pilot out of them, which is wonderful for all those people.

Donald Osborn: I sometimes have some envy or jealousy. I wish something like that was back when I was a kid.

Donald Osborn: But Purdue University was the only college in the United States that had an aviation program, and it was incredibly expensive.

Donald Osborn: As compared to today, I don't know that you could walk into a community college anywhere and not see some type of an aviation program available.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Now, during that time, what was going on in the world that made the airline industry? Like, it's so difficult.

Donald Osborn: Well, it was the 80s. So, you know, I guess the oil business would be a good example. You know, they strike oil somewhere.

Donald Osborn: Everybody's multi-millionaires overnight.

Donald Osborn: And the next thing, they're out buying jets. And, you know, two days later, it all collapses.

Donald Osborn: And after a few days, these executives, they would think, hey, I know we could sell those airplanes.

Donald Osborn: You know, that'll make us some money. Of course, a few days after they sell the airplanes, they think, oh, now we can fire the pilots.

Donald Osborn: And, you know, airlines were going through deregulations, things were changing, and it was just some airlines were trying to get, you know, add more things and they'd forget they were in the airline business.

Donald Osborn: You know, they would be rent-a-cars and hotels and touring packages, and then the airline part would kind of, you know, go by the wayside.

Donald Osborn: And then I guess the nicest way to say with airlines and even corporations is mismanagement.

Donald Osborn: Most people up there in the top floor they don't have a clue what an airplane is how much it costs how to operate it and they buy it uh even airlines sometimes they'll buy 100 airplanes without a whole lot of research you know oh this company gave us the best deal let's buy their airplanes we're at a stage now where technology has kind of solved that for a lot of people they can do computer setups.

Donald Osborn: They can do, you know, what kind of task are you going to do with this airplane?

Donald Osborn: What's your mission statement?

Donald Osborn: And so, plus it's just, it's become a lot more common.

Donald Osborn: I mean, when I first started flying, people showed up to the airport wearing their best Sunday clothes and, and, you know, very respectful, very happy that the idea they were going to get on an airplane, but sometimes they, they walk out of the door, cross the ramp, right on into the airplane, no security or, you know, as compared to what we see today.

Donald Osborn: So it's changed. It's changed an awful lot.

Donald Osborn: 9-11 had a lot to do with how people perceive flying and how they actually can get from their car to an airplane.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, very fascinating. Now, were you still a commercial pilot?

Kevin Lowe: You mentioned 9-11 during that time.

Donald Osborn: Yes, I was on that day. I was in Omaha getting ready to commute to work.

Donald Osborn: And that month I was doing a Boston, Chicago, and our gate was next door to the American gate that took the terrorists out.

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

Donald Osborn: That's, you know, there's a lot. Aviation is a very small community.

Donald Osborn: I personally don't know anybody that was, you know, died in 9-11, but I know a lot of people who know a lot of people.

Donald Osborn: So it's just a very small community. So it's funny when you hear the rumors, you know, it's like, well, I know that's not true because I would know about it.

Donald Osborn: You know, it's too small a community to hide something.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I guess I'm kind of curious through your career.

Kevin Lowe: I mean, what are the different maybe airlines you worked with, airplanes that you've flown?

Kevin Lowe: I mean, because obviously you have an extensive career and I would love to kind of hear what all your career evolved.

Donald Osborn: In a way, that's an easy answer and maybe it's a hard answer too.

Donald Osborn: If you want to do some research and find out what 25 airlines went out of business during the 80s and early 90s, there's a good chance i flew for a lot of them i uh i flew for a lot of airlines that went out of business at corporations and when an airline goes out of business you try to find a corporate job so the same thing that the corporations come and go with their aviation departments it was very unstable compared to what it is today i started out flying for braniff and you have to be fairly old even remember braniff but

Donald Osborn: But at the time I went to work for Brandt, it was like winning the lottery.

Donald Osborn: I mean, it was one of the best airlines you could work for, the highest paid.

Donald Osborn: I remember the chief pilot came in and said something, in fact, to the first day, congratulations, you're all millionaires.

Donald Osborn: And seven months later, I'm on the street looking for another job.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. Wow.

Donald Osborn: I tell people, I did not have a stellar career, but I had one of the most interesting careers of anybody I know about.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Well, talk to me about some of the highlights of your career.

Donald Osborn: I talk about in the book of what it felt like to be in full uniform, walking through that terminal, down the jetway and into my seat in the airline.

Donald Osborn: You know, it's like I'd worked my entire life to get there.

Donald Osborn: And here I am in a brand new airline uniform, walking down the jetway to get into that co-pilot seat.

Donald Osborn: You know, that was definitely a highlight. I guess it would go all the way then to highlight now is I'm getting very close to retiring. I fly a private jet for a guy now.

Donald Osborn: It's just his personal jet and I fly it for him. And I'm getting to the point where, you know, I'm going to have a lot of spare time.

Donald Osborn: I'm going to have time to spend with my grandkids and pursue other hobbies, do other things.

Donald Osborn: And so in a way, that's a highlight that I've made it through this maze and here I am.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, I love it. Now, you've spoken a lot about kind of the ups and downs of the airline industry as far as when you're working, when you're not, picking up other odd jobs and such.

Kevin Lowe: And there was one little story in your book that I would love for you to share because I thought it was absolutely hysterical.

Kevin Lowe: Was when one of your tree trimming customers recognized you at the airport.

Donald Osborn: Yeah, I had a tree business for many years, and it was to supplement the airline world because, you know, when an airline goes out of business, you just see the panic in people's eyes.

Donald Osborn: I thought, you know, I needed to find something that when I am thrown out on the street, I have something to do that next morning because, in fact, that's some advice I give people now.

Donald Osborn: I tell them, you know, when you find yourself unemployed, go out and get another job, you know, and then worry about your career. Don't just, you know, sit around and mope.

Donald Osborn: And really, in life, general, anything that happens, you know, go out and find something to make you feel decent about yourself.

Donald Osborn: So I had a tree business. I worked in the tree world in high school and college with a good friend of mine out in Shadner, Nebraska.

Donald Osborn: So I had a general idea of what the business was like.

Donald Osborn: It took off pretty well. So I had a good customer, and he owed about a three-week job. And so I'd work for a few days and go out and do my flying, come back, work, Just like just an employee-customer type relationship, I'd talk to him a little bit.

Donald Osborn: We just got to where we kind of knew each other, and we'd talk a few minutes before the job or after the job.

Donald Osborn: Well, one day I'm in full uniform getting ready to fly in Chicago, and I could see this guy staring at me.

Donald Osborn: And I realized who he was right off the bat.

Donald Osborn: So he finally came up and said, Excuse me, Captain, do I know you?

Donald Osborn: And I said, yes, you do. I'm your tree man.

Donald Osborn: I still remember his words. He said, by God, you are, aren't you?

Donald Osborn: So, of course, he says, explain this. Why are you here dressed that way?

Donald Osborn: And I told him that, I said, well, to keep the tree business going, I have to find odd jobs to do in the meantime.

Donald Osborn: I

Kevin Lowe: Supplement the tree business with with being there.

Donald Osborn: Oh my

Kevin Lowe: Goodness that is hysterical.

Donald Osborn: And then i finished up his work and everything and he always it's it's funny he he treated me like like he treated me much higher up the chain than he would have just known i was a tree man you know so wow

Kevin Lowe: That that yeah i thought that was a hysterical story in the book.

Kevin Lowe: And I guess that's where kind of segueing in, we keep talking about the book.

Kevin Lowe: So let's actually talk about the book.

Kevin Lowe: How did the book even come about? And I guess in that end with that question is what made you decide that you wanted to write this book?

Donald Osborn: I have always considered myself a writer, whether it was lyrics or books or and and so it's always been kind of a side hobby.

Donald Osborn: And so I started out, I was writing an expose on the airline industry and I was fairly deep into the book and I called my sister and I said, I'm going to need help with this book I'm writing.

Donald Osborn: Would you help me? Of course, she was busy with her life and her kids and she was homeschooling and being a wife and mother and just as busy as she could be.

Donald Osborn: And she almost thought, oh my God, do you realize how busy I am?

Donald Osborn: I said, yeah, but what do you think about doing this? So she said, well, send me what you have.

Donald Osborn: And so I sent her the first few chapters and she read it and came back and said, you know, I don't think people are interested in hearing about this.

Donald Osborn: And I said, and I attribute it to sausage. You know, people love sausage, but they don't necessarily want to hear about how it's made.

Kevin Lowe: True.

Donald Osborn: So what she did say, she said, I see a very interesting memoir here, not an expose.

Donald Osborn: I said, well, let me go back and think about that. And so I kind of changed.

Donald Osborn: I left some of the stories in there, but I kind of changed it more towards me than the airline world.

Donald Osborn: And so we got about, oh, probably 30,000 words maybe.

Donald Osborn: And I'm thinking, gosh, this is going to be good. And she said, no, it's got to be almost twice this size.

Donald Osborn: There's got to be a whole lot more if we're really going to make this thing go.

Donald Osborn: And I remember telling her, God, I don't even like me well enough to come up with that much more.

Donald Osborn: So, so I would write something and what her talent is, she's incredibly talented making, you know, one word flow into the next word, one sentence flow into the next sentence, the paragraphs flow.

Donald Osborn: And so I would send her my version of the stories and, and she would just make it very easy to read and just enjoyable to read.

Donald Osborn: Sometimes she'd call up and say, now, is this, is this a typo or is this an airplane thing? I don't know what you're saying.

Donald Osborn: We've had a lot of fun doing that and uh so as it turns out it wasn't a matter of writing enough when it came ready to you know to publish or to have the final rewrite we had to take out a lot and it was you know the hard part wasn't how we're going to get enough the really difficult part was what are we going to take out of this book and in fact a good friend of mine who also ended up be an airline pilot. I lived with him in college.

Donald Osborn: I had a, well, three, four paragraphs about him and, and somebody, uh, one of the editor type people said, we're going to take him out of here.

Donald Osborn: He's just not interesting enough.

Donald Osborn: So when I, when I saw him and talked to him about it, I had to tell him the story. The reason you're not in is because the editors thought you were boring in true form he said yeah i guess i am boring oh wow in a way it became a just a tremendous enjoyable satisfying thing to do is write this we have a brand new project i hope it's released early spring and it's a series of short stories and a lot of it's stuff that didn't fit into this book and a lot of the real funny things i think is that maybe weren't quite

Donald Osborn: acceptable for this book is going to be in the next one.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, I love it. Now, the name of the memoir, what does it remind us of the name?

Donald Osborn: It's Where We Land. It's Pilate's Reflection at Altitude.

Kevin Lowe: Hmm. Where did you guys come up with that title? Where we land?

Donald Osborn: Well, nobody liked flying sausage. So I had a lot of comments on that.

Donald Osborn: And myself, Annie, my sister, and my niece who actually helped edit it, all the three of us bounced name after name around and nothing seemed to just sound right, you know?

Donald Osborn: And then I can't It was probably a combination of all three of us, but somebody said, you know, the book talks about it's not really where you take off from, it's where you land.

Donald Osborn: That's the whole general idea of this book is you don't have to start at a certain place, but you do have to.

Donald Osborn: What's important is where you land, and then it popped in. That's the name of the book, Where We Land.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Now, do you already have an idea for the title of the second book that you talked about?

Donald Osborn: We do, and it's already been kind of released a little bit. It's going to be called the Ding Dong Alder Boy.

Kevin Lowe: Okay. Very different.

Donald Osborn: Yeah, in a way it's similar because it's about a bunch of rowdy kids growing up in western Nebraska and kind of the path some of us have taken, and it comes into some modern stuff that happens just recently.

Donald Osborn: A lot of this book was fun for me because I recorded a lot of it, and then Annie would type it before I wrote most of it.

Donald Osborn: And for some reason, we just got into this thing where I would tell her the story and then she would write it down.

Donald Osborn: Then she'd send it back to me and I'd read it and actually laugh.

Donald Osborn: I'd say, we got some here because you're making me laugh with my story, so.

Donald Osborn: So that's when we really felt that we had something going.

Donald Osborn: Just a couple days ago, we were approached by some people about doing a children's book on where we land.

Kevin Lowe: Oh, wow.

Donald Osborn: And so we don't know how far where that's going to go. But I think that sounds like a blast.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, it does. Listen, and I mean, I can tell anybody intrigued about the book that even just the first few chapters of the book, it almost has that almost like that field of dreams type feel to it.

Donald Osborn: OK, I like that. I haven't heard that exact description, but I do.

Donald Osborn: I like it. Good job. It is.

Kevin Lowe: I mean, it literally, you know, the movie, you know, you have Kevin Costner, you know, sees the field and sees you. You, it was that first little plane with Frank, and that was your own field of dreams.

Kevin Lowe: I thought it's just, it's such a captivating read. It's an easy read, and it's just, it's truly entertaining.

Kevin Lowe: As I actually told your sister in an email, I said, I literally felt like a little kid staring at the TV screen like it's his chin on his hand, just two inches away from the TV.

Kevin Lowe: So enthralled in the show. So I'm like, that's how I felt while reading.

Donald Osborn: Man, what a great day. You're making me feel great. I really appreciate that because it's wonderful to get the feedback.

Kevin Lowe: Of course, of course. No, I think it's amazing. Now, where is the best place for us to send somebody who would love to read the book?

Donald Osborn: The book's available on Amazon. And I found out just the other day I'm Amazonable, meaning you can type in Donald Osborne and the book comes up.

Donald Osborn: But if you type up where we land in Amazon, it comes up and it's available in Barnes & Noble and it's about any bookstore.

Donald Osborn: You can go in and they can order it for you.

Kevin Lowe: Okay, that's amazing. Well, Don, I guess my last question I would love to kind of ask you today is tied directly back to the book and the person listening today is, what is the thing that you really hope that somebody who reads this book, what do you hope that they take away from it?

Donald Osborn: I really like that question. If you're a pilot, I hope you laugh and enjoy it.

Donald Osborn: If you're somebody thinking about becoming a pilot, I hope that it's required reading someday.

Donald Osborn: And then if you're somebody that rides on an airline now and then, and you kind of wonder what's going on behind that locked door or even underneath the terminal, I think this book will, especially nowadays where there's so much anxiety about flying and the media push on it, this might relax you a little bit and let you maybe enjoy the flight a little bit more.

Donald Osborn: But the final and most thing important to me about if somebody reads this book and it makes them laugh and cry i've had that comment before and that that was really made me happy that as an author i can invoke emotions that can make somebody laugh and cry but with all that being said i would hope that somebody would read this book and think god if somebody like that can do I certainly can, too.

Kevin Lowe: Yes, I love it, man. Well, Don, man, it has been an absolute pleasure getting to meet you, to get to hear your story.

Kevin Lowe: Thank you so much for being here and being willing to share a little piece of your story with me and my listeners.

Kevin Lowe: It means the world to me, so thank you.

Donald Osborn: Well, I really appreciate your time. I appreciate the invite, and I hope to continue this. I'd like to meet you in person someday.

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely. We will be sure that happens. And for you listening today, oh, man, I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation as much as I have.

Kevin Lowe: Hopefully, you're geared up. You're ready to go out and check out today's show notes where I will leave a link to Don's book where you can stay in touch with him, especially on that future book release.

Kevin Lowe: And highly encourage you to go read the book yourself. It is truly one of a kind. And I'm telling you, if you enjoyed today's interview, well, then the book is just going to take it to the next level.

Kevin Lowe: So with that, my friend, I encourage you to get out there and enjoy the day.

Kevin Lowe: Go pick up a copy of Don's book. And hey, most of all, just get out there and enjoy the day.

Kevin Lowe: I'm your host, Kevin Lowe, and this is Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

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