#399: The Swearing Therapist on Moving to America, Midlife Reinvention, & Flipping Off Society’s Timeline

Kevin Lowe: She's real and oh so resilient. and that is exactly what we're tapping into for you because today you're going to be entertained but you're also going to be empowered because you're going to take what she's been through and you're going to be able to put it into application in your life.

Kevin Lowe: As you will hear, Zoma's story has us starting off in Argentina where she grew up but then it switches to her navigating life as an immigrant in America.

Kevin Lowe: You'll hear the stories of her battling cancer, dealing with heartbreak, and becoming a therapist.

Kevin Lowe: But the thing that I love the most about her story is this idea of basically saying sayonara to society's timeline, of when we're supposed to have those certain boxes checked off.

Kevin Lowe: Because Zolma shows us that life's timeline, it's individual to each of us.

Kevin Lowe: You are on your own timeline.

Kevin Lowe: This is your story. It is your opportunity to write it however it goes.

Kevin Lowe: So my friend, if you feel like you could use a little hope, if you feel like you could use a little fiery inspiration, a reminder that you are right where you're meant to be, that it is not too late to pursue your dreams, my friend, this is for you.

Kevin Lowe: This is episode 399 of Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

Kevin Lowe: I'm, of course, your host, Kevin Lowe. And my friend, it is my honor and pleasure and, dare I say, excitement to introduce you to today's fiery guest, none other than Zoma Williams.

Kevin Lowe: My friend, this is my interview with the swearing therapist.

Podcast Intro: I got grit, grace, and inspiration on my mind. No matter the storms that rise, I won't be left behind...

Kevin Lowe: I'm in the studio with Zoma Williams. Zoma, welcome to the podcast.

Zulma Williams: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. How are you, Kevin?

Kevin Lowe: I am doing amazing. How are you today? You doing good?

Zulma Williams: Yes. So excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Zoma, I would love for us to dive into your story.

Kevin Lowe: And where I would really love to begin is I know that you are originally from argentina and so i would love to hear from you a little bit about life for you growing up.

Zulma Williams: Okay yes i was born and raised in buenos aires argentina i came to the united states when i was 31 so i was an adult growing up in buenos aires it was my mom was a homemaker my dad was the one working and providing for the family.

Zulma Williams: It was like a quote-unquote normal childhood, but I didn't know any different.

Zulma Williams: So I played a lot in the street and with my neighbors, and we would come home when the street lights went on and all those things, which was what I consider a pretty standard childhood.

Zulma Williams: But growing up, and then when I moved here and I start looking back, I realized that it was completely different than a childhood in America.

Zulma Williams: But because I didn't have anything to compare it to, I was like, oh, okay, shit, like this is normal, right?

Zulma Williams: So, for example, we had one car that was a family of five, and the only one who drove the car was my dad, and it was only for emergencies because we barely could afford insurance and gas money.

Zulma Williams: So my dad rode the bus every day to go to work, right? And it was like two hours to go and two hours to come back.

Zulma Williams: So I realized that we have, like, what we consider normal is like it's a perspective issue.

Zulma Williams: Right. It's depending on where you are. But I had, you know, like we didn't have any luxuries, but I, I, I went to public school.

Zulma Williams: Like I had the friends in my neighborhood.

Zulma Williams: Like I didn't, like I rode the bus to go to school when I went into high school.

Zulma Williams: To public school, I would walk in elementary.

Zulma Williams: I would walk to the school. And then for high school, I would take the bus.

Zulma Williams: But it was like a 10-minute bus ride. So it wasn't too far from where I live.

Zulma Williams: But all the action was happening in the capital, right? Like in the city.

Zulma Williams: So it would take two hours to get to the action per se, right?

Zulma Williams: Which was where the jobs were and all that. So it was awesome to me.

Zulma Williams: Now I have my friends who have children.

Zulma Williams: And I was like, oh, shit. You know, they go everywhere in the car.

Zulma Williams: And my friends' children have a completely different life than I have.

Zulma Williams: Now, granted, this is fucking, I'm going to be 60 this year.

Zulma Williams: So this is like 50 years ago, right? 55 years ago.

Zulma Williams: But it was a nice time growing up.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. Now, you said that you did not actually leave to come to America until you were 31.

Zulma Williams: Yes.

Kevin Lowe: Now, why at that point in your life?

Kevin Lowe: Because I know I've interviewed people on the podcast before who've lived in other countries and they came to America like after they finished high school, like for college and stuff.

Kevin Lowe: So what made you at 31 decide to leave?

Zulma Williams: So coming to america was a teenager dream of mine but you know i at that time at 31 i didn't have a job like i was without a job for like a couple of years i was still living with my mom i didn't have a family i didn't have children i didn't have a boyfriend i was like it's it's kind of like when you have nothing you have nothing to lose right so i took it as an adventure but a precipitating event because i was toying with this idea of like oh i'm gonna you know i'm gonna go to america see what's what's

Zulma Williams: going on there blah blah blah but i had a cousin who died of a stroke And he was 31.

Zulma Williams: So we were like very close in age. And that was a precipitated event.

Zulma Williams: Because when you are 30, when you are young, you think, oh, you have your entire life in front of you.

Zulma Williams: And my cousin's death kind of like put everything into perspective i was like bitch you better start fucking right now so that was the main precipitated event was like life is happening right now and it can change at any minute so i went to my therapist and i told him like oh i'm going so because i've been talking to him like oh i'm gonna you know i'm thinking of going to America and then my cousin died and then I'm like I'm fucking living in two months you know what I mean Like it was an unfortunate event but that opened my eyes because you think that

Zulma Williams: you have time we all think that we have time we don't life can change in a second so like I decided I was gonna move here and I did it and it was December of 1996 it was Christmas right like it was like a fucking movie like all the houses were decorated with the lights and everybody was like in the festive, you know, the Christmas spirit.

Zulma Williams: It was kind of like coming here was kind of like I was living in a movie.

Zulma Williams: Then fucking reality set in. But at the beginning, I first landed like it was like being in a movie, but I took it as an adventure.

Zulma Williams: My mom gave me her blessing and she was like, if it doesn't work out, you always have your home here and food and and i was like okay like i don't have anything to lose so because i have nothing so it's going up from there yeah

Kevin Lowe: Now before moving to america had you ever visited america just on vacation.

Zulma Williams: No it was my first actually before moving to america was my fucking first time in on an airplane

Kevin Lowe: What? Oh, my gosh.

Zulma Williams: Yes. So it was an adventure. Like when I tell you that it was a movie, it was a fucking movie.

Zulma Williams: Like I didn't even know how to fasten the feedback.

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

Zulma Williams: Like I was mesmerized by the entire experience. I remember I first landed in Miami.

Zulma Williams: So I have an uncle and my aunt and my cousins living in California.

Zulma Williams: So that's where I first went. But I first landed in Miami and I remember, so I knew how to write and read English, but not how to speak because I learned in high school.

Zulma Williams: So there is like 35 students, you know, you don't have time to be practicing the verbal.

Zulma Williams: But so I got to Miami and then the guy said, asked me a couple of questions.

Zulma Williams: And I'm looking at him like what do you know I didn't do it you know so he put his hand like a stop and then he went to get a piece of paper with the questions and the questions were like was your luggage with you the entire time or like have you received anything you know like the normal security question and I was like oh yes oh no how to fucking read and write right like so like it was like the entire experience was like an adventure yeah

Kevin Lowe: Now was there any point on that plane ride or landing or anything that you ever thought to yourself oh my gosh i made a mistake i want to go home.

Zulma Williams: No no No, not even in my worst times. So not, not on the trip here. So I went to Florida.

Zulma Williams: Then I stopped. I don't know. Like I flew for like fucking 20 hours because it was cheaper that way.

Zulma Williams: Right. Like the ticket was cheaper. but even after you know i was so mesmerized and whatever even when i i was having a hard time at the beginning it was going back was never an option it was like no this is a decision that i made and i'm gonna tough it up you know like because at the first inconvenience you're like oh i'm going home bench like fucking put your bigger panties on and fucking deal with it and that's what i did yeah

Kevin Lowe: Yeah now you said that you landed in miami where you had some family now did you stay in miami.

Zulma Williams: No no no i didn't have family in miami i had a family in los angeles but that was miami was the first port of entrance right okay i could have flown to los angeles but the ticket that way would have been a lot more expensive so i did it like a like a longer trip to save money because i didn't have any money yes yes so i had a hundred dollars in my possession that my godmother gave me and my dad lent me the money for the ticket and that was it and now if i had to fly i'm like i'll fucking look at

Zulma Williams: delta the shortest flight you know what i mean i fucking do it in 16 hours but at the time and also it was part of the adventure right like oh my god i'm gonna be in three planes or four planes or whatever like okay like you know i didn't give a shit because i didn't want to it's not like oh my god i had like let's say that if you fly somewhere for a conference or whatever like you wanted to do it time effective i was exhausted yes

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely so now your final destination was california.

Zulma Williams: Yes it was los angeles my cousin went to pick me up at the airport and he took me momentarily to his home because he needed to go back to work.

Zulma Williams: He's like, okay, you know, here is the shower.

Zulma Williams: Like, you know, like, make yourself at home. I didn't even know how to fucking turn on the fucking shower here.

Zulma Williams: I didn't even know what my fucking name was.

Zulma Williams: I've been flying for 20 hours. Like, I don't know where I'm at, what my name is, whatever.

Zulma Williams: But I figured I took a shower, I relaxed, I had, you know, something to eat and then he came back and picked me up and took me to his father's home, right?

Zulma Williams: Like, which is where I was gonna be staying.

Zulma Williams: And, you know, it was so important.

Zulma Williams: So this is my mom's brother, right? My uncle on my mom's side.

Zulma Williams: And I was 31 and he was helping me.

Zulma Williams: He had a bakery at the time in California. And he gave me a job there to help me, you know, get on my feet.

Zulma Williams: And then, which I was very grateful for.

Zulma Williams: But then he started trying to control me, right? who at that time were writing letters to, right?

Zulma Williams: We didn't even have emailing, and I wasn't even a singer.

Zulma Williams: So who I'm writing letters to, who I'm calling, because I was buying the calling cards from him, sir, I'm fucking 31 years old.

Zulma Williams: Like, I'm not a baby, you know what I mean? But because he couldn't control his own children, which were my age, he tried to control me.

Zulma Williams: And I was like, I don't think this is going to fucking work out.

Zulma Williams: And I was devastated, but I told my mom, because I didn't want to create an issue for my mom, right, with her brother.

Zulma Williams: Mom said, you do what is best for you.

Zulma Williams: And so I moved, left the job, like I found a different job.

Zulma Williams: I started to build my own path while being very grateful because, again, like I didn't, you know, I didn't know anything about America or the culture or whatever.

Zulma Williams: And I certainly didn't have a car. I didn't know how to drive.

Zulma Williams: But I'm like, no, I'm an adult.

Zulma Williams: And, you know, I do appreciate your help, but I'm going to I had to do what I had to do.

Zulma Williams: Like you know like so my dad had a nephew so my dad is he was born and raised in Syria and he moved to Argentina when he was 18 so I didn't know any of my family on my dad's side because they were all in Syria and I was in Argentina so a nephew calls my dad and he said uncle I'm in America I'm in California and she said oh my daughter is in California and I connected with that cousin that I never met before on my dad's side he didn't speak Spanish I didn't speak Arabic the movie fucking communicated in basic English and told me that things

Zulma Williams: So we hit it off, and I moved to another part.

Zulma Williams: Oh, okay, so where my uncle, my maternal uncle was, was in the Mexican neighborhood, right?

Zulma Williams: So I started going to school to learn English as a second language, and I learned, I have, like, a master's in fucking Mexican, but I didn't learn English, right?

Zulma Williams: Because, again, we were a lot in the class, and the things that they were teaching, I already knew that. But what I needed was to practice thinking, right?

Zulma Williams: So my cousin on my dad's side was in an all-white neighborhood in another part of California.

Zulma Williams: And that's when I fucking learned English. You know, like I was immersed.

Zulma Williams: Like one of the things that I learned was more slowly, please.

Zulma Williams: Because we speak, naturally, all of us, we speak very fast in our native tongue.

Zulma Williams: So like I was working in a laundromat you know the one that you drop your clothes and then you can't pick them up so I was like motherfucker slow down or you're going to get the shirts however I want the starch to be right because I had to ask you do you want low starch, medium starch or high starch for your shirt and these motherfuckers will be like I'm like you know because I'm like motherfucker I'm not understanding what you're saying So then I started and then I started like you know I didn't know how to

Zulma Williams: butter was in the supermarket but i fucking learned yeah because i i was like i had to speak the language or i'm not gonna communicate you know what i mean so a funny story so i'm i'm working at the letter you know a lot of guys come i'm flirting with one of the guys and i said to him bless his soul i said to him i'm very easy right so he started laughing and he said i know what you mean way to say it's like I'm easy going okay so bless his heart because I was easy you know what I mean I'm like I'm pretty

Zulma Williams: easy he's like I know what you mean that's you want to say it this way language you know what i mean like and

Kevin Lowe: You know what and exactly what you said that's something that no matter how good the class is you never would have learned that in in class at college.

Zulma Williams: Exactly and there was no only fans at that time you know what i mean like so like that was so funny and i and i look back at those stories and i'm like that was cute i loved it And it was such a great experience, even the quote-unquote bad moments, because it taught me how strong I am.

Zulma Williams: Like, you know, how do you test yourself in adversity, right?

Zulma Williams: It's like, tell me one person who didn't have adversity in their lives.

Zulma Williams: They cannot be more.

Kevin Lowe: Yes, yes. Right.

Zulma Williams: So, but despite the cultural shock and everything, like, for example, like seeing people put ketchup on their fries, I was like, you know, now give me the fucking, you know, the ketchup better be there.

Zulma Williams: But all those experiences, like I will not change any one of them.

Kevin Lowe: Yes.

Zulma Williams: You know, I love to drive at, I don't know, 32, 33, something like that.

Zulma Williams: My cousin, my cousin on my dad's side taught me how to drive, right?

Zulma Williams: I would not change any of my experiences because they made me who I am today.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Yeah, of course. I think that's remarkable. Now, how long would you stay living in California?

Zulma Williams: So I was in California for about three years because I was transferred by my job.

Zulma Williams: So, okay, so then I move up in the corporate world and I went from a laundromat to dry cleaners.

Zulma Williams: And they, in California, and they were expanding in Nevada.

Zulma Williams: So they wanted to send people who, you know, they want to implement their system here in Nevada.

Zulma Williams: So I was transferred from my job to Las Vegas in April of 1999.

Zulma Williams: They sent me and another guy who was also single at the time.

Zulma Williams: They sent the two of us for, he was a guy from a different location, so we really kind of like bonded here.

Zulma Williams: But they sent us because we were single and we didn't have family, so it was a lot cheaper for them.

Zulma Williams: But this motherfucker sent us in April to see if we like it in Vegas, right?

Zulma Williams: April is so nice in Vegas.

Zulma Williams: Like, weather is nice. so we both say yes we're going to move and then we move in May and we are fucking melting you know it's already you know so anyhow I moved to Las Vegas because of work and then I started to for that job and then I got fired a year later because Nevada is a right to work state so I referred to a manager and I was like, fucking bitch.

Zulma Williams: And it got to her ears and I showed up to work with my uniform all cute and everything.

Zulma Williams: And they said, we don't have any more work for you. Like I was like, oh, shit, you know, like so.

Zulma Williams: But by that time, I already got a boyfriend here and I had my friends.

Zulma Williams: So I was like, well, you know, I just stay.

Zulma Williams: But so, yes, I was in California for about three years. And then I moved to Nevada, and I've been here basically since.

Kevin Lowe: Wow, wow. Now, culture, as far as moving from Argentina to California, California to Vegas, what was the bigger shock?

Kevin Lowe: I mean, obviously coming Argentina to America, but I mean, was it a big difference for you going from California to Vegas?

Zulma Williams: Yes, it was. Obviously, as she said, the major cultural shock was moving from Buenos Aires to California.

Zulma Williams: But having lived in California for about two and a half, three years, and then moving to Nevada, the thing was that in California, I was living walking distance from the beach.

Zulma Williams: So my job was two blocks from the beach.

Zulma Williams: So I will leave work, go to the beach, see the sunset, and then go home and have dinner and whatever.

Zulma Williams: I moved here where like we have sun but not water right and I was like devastated number one because of the weather I mean last year in July we had 117 degrees like it was impossible to like that's not humanly possible to live here you know what I mean like So the weather was horrible. I didn't have the ocean, which I'm an ocean girl.

Zulma Williams: Like I will sit there and fucking do nothing.

Zulma Williams: Like I get mesmerized by the ocean. So I didn't have the ocean.

Zulma Williams: It was the bus system here is completely different.

Zulma Williams: In California, like in Los Angeles, you can go anywhere via bus, right? Like you have a lot of connections.

Zulma Williams: And that's what I was doing. but when I moved here I'm like the system the bus system here was horrible so I had to I've been working 12 hours and it's so hot and then I take the bus and then I had to walk another 15 minutes until I get home like I was exhausted I was exhausted and I was waiting like 97 pounds you know what I mean I was like oh shit like I am liking this But, like, I needed to buy a car immediately, right?

Zulma Williams: It was like, you need a car to move here.

Zulma Williams: And people are different, right?

Zulma Williams: So I got a lot more Hispanic community, believe it or not, because of where I was living in California.

Zulma Williams: Although there is a lot of community, the city I was living in, in Playa del Rey, which is next to Marina del Rey, next to LAX.

Zulma Williams: And there was a, it was a white neighborhood.

Zulma Williams: So I moved here and there is like a lot of Hispanic people and in certain areas of Las Vegas.

Zulma Williams: And, you know, like, but the dry cleaners was a high end dry cleaners.

Zulma Williams: So I'm gonna sign soap classes on races, but the reality is that the Hispanics that were in the dry cleaners were us working there.

Zulma Williams: Not that people came to drop off their clothes. So, yeah, it was a kind of a cultural shock to move here to Las Vegas from California.

Zulma Williams: And then many, many, many years later, I went to Pennsylvania.

Zulma Williams: That's where my best friend is from.

Zulma Williams: And I went to Pennsylvania and I was like, people are so nice here.

Zulma Williams: Like, that was another cultural shock because, like, everybody was so nice here.

Zulma Williams: Like you know people were so nice over there i was like oh this is what people say that we are in the west coast because we are fucking rude in the west coast but it's a way to like you know everybody does it so you don't know better like i remember when i went to parker in sylvania like my friend took it like i saw for the first time i was like 45 or 46 at the time it was my first time seeing a fucking apple tree in person right oh my god he has apples and she was laughing yeah it's a fucking apple tree what is gonna happen and

Zulma Williams: as you know it's gonna have apples but i said can i can i grab one so i grab an apple from the fucking apple tree and then i I look at her, her sister was laughing. She was dying.

Zulma Williams: The city girl, right? In the country. And so I grabbed the apple and I said, can I eat it?

Zulma Williams: Like I was afraid to eat the fucking apple from the apple tree.

Zulma Williams: Because I bought my apples at the supermarket.

Kevin Lowe: Yes, that is so funny.

Zulma Williams: But that showed you, you know, like I was like, I was seeing different shades of green in the trees. And I was like, oh, my God, that is what there are different shades of green.

Zulma Williams: Because here we have green and beige because, like, the fucking grass is dying.

Zulma Williams: You know what I mean? Like, you have green and brown.

Zulma Williams: Like, those are the two fucking colors for the grass.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, you went from basically the desert to this flourishing forest of a place to live. Right.

Zulma Williams: Her sister had an Airbnb on the, you know, by the side of the river.

Zulma Williams: And I was like, oh, my God, you have natural water here.

Zulma Williams: Like, we don't know what fucking water is in Nevada. You know what I mean?

Kevin Lowe: Yes. Yes. Oh, my goodness.

Zulma Williams: So, yes, it was a cultural shock moving to Las Vegas.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. So now you told us that you got fired from your job that had you moved to Vegas.

Kevin Lowe: Now, you'll have to fill in the gaps. Obviously, there's a job in between or something.

Kevin Lowe: But at some point in time, you actually decided to go back to college, correct?

Zulma Williams: Yes. So I got fired a year after I moved to Vegas.

Zulma Williams: And I just, you know, was doing different jobs until I landed a job in an office and I learned all about accounting and stuff, which was a huge change because like, oh, my God, I'm in an office.

Zulma Williams: I'm sitting down at a desk with AC.

Zulma Williams: You know what I mean? Like I was kind of like moving out in the ladder.

Zulma Williams: And then I was working in an accounting department of a corporation. I was 42.

Zulma Williams: At that time. And I started kind of like reflecting about my future.

Zulma Williams: And I was like, I think I don't want to be doing this for another 25 years.

Zulma Williams: And that's when I enrolled in college, I always wanted to be a therapist.

Zulma Williams: Like I have people come to me and tell me like, shit, that they don't call nobody.

Zulma Williams: And they're like, I'm a product. I never sent this to anybody.

Zulma Williams: And I was like, I better start fucking charging for this, you know, charging for that. I need to be licensed.

Zulma Williams: So I started school at 42, but I never quit my job. So I was working full time in accounting.

Zulma Williams: And I think that it's important for people to realize that you don't have to leave everything while you are building your future.

Zulma Williams: I continued to work in accounting my entire career while I was building the stepping stones for a different future.

Zulma Williams: It wasn't like all or nothing. It wasn't like, oh, no, I cannot be doing accounting if I'm going to be doing social work.

Zulma Williams: Accounting was what was paying my bills at the time that I was getting myself ready for a different future as a therapist.

Zulma Williams: But I was doing both things.

Zulma Williams: I didn't need to choose. So I graduated at 46 with my Bachelor of Social Work.

Zulma Williams: I graduated in December, and then I was on track to start my master's in August.

Zulma Williams: That's where the master's at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas started at that time.

Zulma Williams: So I graduated in December, and six weeks later, I got diagnosed with breast cancer.

Kevin Lowe: Oh, wow.

Zulma Williams: I had my life all planned, but, you know, life is what happens when you have different plans.

Zulma Williams: So I just put on a stop to my higher education to take care of my health.

Zulma Williams: I got my surgery here, surgery and radiation here, but I decided to move back to Argentina at that time to be closer to my family.

Zulma Williams: And so I moved back. I got diagnosed in February. I had surgery in April, I did radiation in May, and then I moved.

Zulma Williams: In june i moved to argentina in june which was another cultural shock because i there after 14 15 years of living in America and i was like oh hell No you know like i remember why if i can move up uh because like and my friends were telling me like you need to come down you're gonna you're going to have a heart attack because i was so no but but there is a different way of doing things like that was like another cultural shock it was there for a year and a half doing my treatment which at the

Zulma Williams: beginning was very intensive like i would go it was a public hospital and i would go to the hospital every three weeks whatever but then after a year and a half of me being there my mom unexpectedly passed away so in the bigger picture of you know in the bigger scheme of things I was meant to be there because she got to see me that I was doing well it wasn't just like the phone conversation that oh I'm okay and then I hang up and I'm fucking dying no she got to see me that i was okay i was

Zulma Williams: meant to be there at that time and then i you know i was in a romantic relationship that didn't work out and it was like you know what and then the treatment they started getting like thank god that the treatment was working spoiler alert i survived i'm here right like so the treatment was working and then i decided like you know i had it i'm going back to America.

Zulma Williams: So in February of 2015, that year I was turning 50 in 2015. So I was like, I'm going to celebrate my 50th birthday in America and I'm going to move back.

Zulma Williams: So I decided to move back in February But I had appointments up until the end of April, and I didn't want to lose those appointments because I didn't know how long it was going to take me to reestablish care here in America.

Zulma Williams: So I was like, okay, let me keep my appointments, and I'm going to move there in May.

Zulma Williams: So I'm praying for a sign, like, okay, Lord, please let me know if this is the right decision, blah, blah, blah.

Zulma Williams: And out of the blue, so at the university, I'm sure all universities are the same, but here at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, when you are a student, you have a student email, right?

Zulma Williams: But after you graduate, they deactivate the email after like about two years or whatever that you graduated.

Zulma Williams: So this has been three years that I graduated. So my UNLV email was no longer working.

Zulma Williams: And I get a fucking email on my personal Yahoo account from the university saying, hey, we have the Advanced Master of Social Work program back. Do you want to enroll?

Zulma Williams: I'm like, okay, Lauren, I checked. Like, I asked for a sign.

Zulma Williams: You fucking make a fucking banner.

Zulma Williams: You know? So I came back in Maine. I started. So it's an advanced program.

Zulma Williams: So it's very intensive, it's one year.

Zulma Williams: And, you know, so the classes started in May because it's a summer semester and then two more semesters and then you are done.

Zulma Williams: So I came here. I hit the ground running. I was doing school full time. I was working part time.

Zulma Williams: And a year later, I graduated at 51.

Zulma Williams: So when you know like when I have clients that I'm like oh I'm too old you know to go back I'm like motherfucker I started my masters at 50 and English is not my first language you're barking at the wrong tree you know what I mean like so if anything cancer came to show me how bad I wanted to get therapist yes because it didn't stop me it only delayed

Kevin Lowe: Yes. Yes.

Zulma Williams: Nobody would have blamed me if I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not going to go for my master's.

Zulma Williams: I'm going to go back to accounting and like, oh, yeah, poor you.

Zulma Williams: You had cancer, blah, blah, blah.

Zulma Williams: No, I had cancer. I did my treatment and then I continue with my plan.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Wow. I think, I mean, that aspect of your story alone speaks so highly of the person that you are.

Kevin Lowe: The fact of that drive to continue on with your dream, I think, is really remarkable.

Zulma Williams: Thank you.

Kevin Lowe: Thank you.

Zulma Williams: We all have those stories, right? Like, it's like we all go through fucking challenges.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, yeah. So when you graduated from this master's, what is your title today?

Zulma Williams: So I graduated with a master's of social work. And then I wanted to go the clinical route, which is to do therapy.

Zulma Williams: It's an internship. It's about two and a half to three years.

Zulma Williams: You have to do 2,000 hours of direct contact, which is either individual therapy or couples therapy or family therapy, and then 1,000 hours of other.

Zulma Williams: And after you get the 3000 hours you take a clinical exam and you become licensed so my title right now is licensed clinical social worker yeah

Kevin Lowe: Now zoma i don't want to like say that you're a liar but that is not the title that i heard.

Zulma Williams: No i'm the sweating therapist i'm a fucking yes i'm a fucking badass thank you for bringing that up so

Kevin Lowe: You are the swearing therapist which for any of us who have been listening today we can't imagine where that name came from.

Zulma Williams: Right so but but in order to be the swearing therapist first i had to become a licensed clinical social person okay when I was doing my internship it's kind of like when you are in your internship you take whatever whomever client walks through the door right so because that's how you are you are building up who you are as a clinician So once I became fully licensed, I was telling, I work in community mental health, so I will tell the clinical director.

Zulma Williams: And your internship is another, it's a time where, like, you find out who you are more comfortable working with, not only in terms of population, but also in terms of diagnosis.

Zulma Williams: So I will, when I was fully licensed, now remember, I'm 51 when I started my internship.

Zulma Williams: So I'm fully licensed at 53 and a half I'm already I've been fucking old for 20 years at this point so don't fucking tell me I don't know what I want you know what I mean?

Zulma Williams: It's not like I'm trying to figure it out so I will tell my clinical director like oh don't give me couples because I don't I don't like working with couples here comes a couple because they speak Spanish and I'm bilingual in Spanish bitch which part of them give me a couple didn't you care?

Zulma Williams: Get more fucking bilingual therapists like you know what i mean like so so and i will say like oh okay well don't give me someone dealing with substance abuse so i that's how i founded my own practice because i was like no i want to work with highly motivated adults here is my ideal client is a highly motivated adult who is dealing with anxiety depression and or trauma i'm your girl but if you have substance abuse if you have a mood disorder if you have a personality disorder i

Zulma Williams: will refer you out because that's not what what i do and it's kind of like like if you have heart issues you're not going to go to a fucking gastroenterologist so you're going to go to a cardiologist if you cannot poop don't go to the cardiologist go to the gi doctor and here is the saying like i do a consultation call so let's say that you want to work with me and you you fill out the form in my website i will schedule a time to talk to see number one if we get a good match and number two what

Zulma Williams: is it that you are that you want out of therapy right because if i if your goals don't align with the service that i provide i will gladly refer you out to go through this millions of therapists.

Zulma Williams: It doesn't have to be me. I'm glad that you want to do therapy so that you can feel better.

Zulma Williams: But it doesn't have to be with me. Now, in that consultation call, shit and fuck is going to come out of my mouth.

Zulma Williams: So if you are not comfortable with me, cousin, I'm not the girl for you.

Kevin Lowe: Yes.

Zulma Williams: Which is fine, too, because there are a lot of fucking therapists who don't cuss. Go to them. And I know a lot of them.

Zulma Williams: It doesn't have to be me. I don't take it personal.

Zulma Williams: With me, you either click and you love me or you cannot stand me.

Zulma Williams: It's not like, oh, I'm not sure about something.

Zulma Williams: No, you cannot fucking stand the bitch or you click, right?

Zulma Williams: And if we don't click, the therapeutic relationship is not going to work because 80% of the success of therapy is a therapeutic relationship.

Zulma Williams: If we don't click, you're not going to trust me. You're not going to open up.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

Zulma Williams: So, and then I have clients who they think that they are ready to work because I'm like, listen, this is your life and life is too short.

Zulma Williams: I don't have time to be holding your hand. Oh, poor Kevin.

Zulma Williams: Do you want to change? No, there are other therapies for that.

Zulma Williams: You come to me when you decide that you really want your life to improve.

Zulma Williams: And we are going to hit the ground running because I'm not playing.

Zulma Williams: Right? Like, so you told me you want to, to feel better.

Zulma Williams: We are going to be working on you feeling better, but I'm not going to do it for you.

Zulma Williams: I cannot want this more than you want it for yourself.

Zulma Williams: So you are the driver We are in a car and you are the driver I'm the GPS I'll give you direction Like I guide you But you have to give ignition And you have to turn the car on And you need to drive Otherwise we're in fucking movie Because I'm not going to do it For you Yes

Kevin Lowe: I love that And I think that is such a Perfect analogy of the GPS.

Zulma Williams: Yes. Because, so for example, let's say that you want to hang a picture, right?

Zulma Williams: As a therapist, I will take you to the hardware store.

Zulma Williams: I will show you what the hammer is, what nails are. I'll show you how to do it.

Zulma Williams: But then you have to do it yourself because if you don't learn, then the next time that you need to hang a picture, you're going to need me.

Kevin Lowe: Yes. Yes.

Zulma Williams: So my goal, as soon as you walk into my office, to get to the fuck out of my office.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

Zulma Williams: Because that means that you learn the tools and you can apply it.

Zulma Williams: Like, listen, I love you.

Zulma Williams: Have a good life. But I don't want to fucking, I don't want you here for 20 years.

Zulma Williams: You know what I mean? Like, I think that we all should go to therapy because we need that, that neutral perspective.

Zulma Williams: My job as a therapist is to provide you with a different perspective about your situation.

Zulma Williams: Because when you are in the picture, you cannot see the picture.

Zulma Williams: But like I have my therapist and I need that neutral perspective.

Zulma Williams: But if it's something, so let's say it's debilitating anxiety that you are dealing with or a sexual assault that you are dealing with or, you know, trauma from a shooting or whatever it might be.

Zulma Williams: I want to provide you with those tools and help you with that so that doesn't continue to hinder your life.

Zulma Williams: So, like, for the acute shit, yes, like, let's work on it. I'll give you a kiss and have a good life.

Zulma Williams: Now, if you want to have more like that, you know, neutral perspective, yes, I can do long-term therapy.

Zulma Williams: But it's not because you still cannot control your anxiety and you know it's like no we are going to work on that so you have all the tools so that you can manage your own anxiety and you don't need me every fucking week reminding you like oh okay take a deep breath and so i give a lot of homework because i use a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy so let's say that you get anxious before doing a podcast so I will say okay take a deep breath we use a grounding technique blah blah blah okay you come next week and you're like I got so nervous before

Zulma Williams: doing the podcast okay did you take the deep breath and do the grounding technique no well guess what your fucking homework is going to be this week to take a deep breath and do a grounding technique Because you didn't try it so how do I know if it works if you don't fucking try it Right now, if you told me I did it and it didn't work out for me Perfect, I'll give you a different tool But I'm giving you the tool You go to the doctor and they give me medication And you still feel like shit Did you take it?

Zulma Williams: No, sir You need to take the medication But how do you want to know if the meds work if you don't take them?

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

Zulma Williams: Now, if you use the medication and you're like, I cannot handle the side effects, whatever, or it don't feel better. Okay, let's try with a different one.

Zulma Williams: And that's what I mean by a highly motivated adult.

Zulma Williams: Trust me, do it and then tell me this shit doesn't work.

Zulma Williams: Okay, but don't tell me the hammer on the nail doesn't work or the hammer doesn't work on the nail if you didn't try it.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Wow. Now, Zoma, when I'm listening to you, I have to wonder, given where you are today, I mean, you're in America, you have your own business, you've graduated with your master's degree, you've overcome breast cancer, all of these things.

Kevin Lowe: Could you ever have imagined as a child that you would be at this place in your life?

Zulma Williams: No. Not as a child, not as a fucking adult, not as a, no.

Zulma Williams: No. But I don't regret any of my experiences.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

Zulma Williams: I don't know if I would have a stay in Argentina, my life would be completely different.

Zulma Williams: I probably wouldn't be alive at this point because, not because of the cancer, but because I would have had a heart attack because I couldn't handle the stress.

Zulma Williams: So people are like, oh, you're so strong. You moved to America.

Zulma Williams: No, the strong ones are my family who remain there.

Zulma Williams: Those are the strong ones. You know what I mean? Because 30 years later, I'm on year 29, except the three years I lived there. So let's say 26 years later.

Zulma Williams: But chronologically, almost 30 years later, they're still dealing with the same fucking corruption and the same system and the same economic issues.

Zulma Williams: And I talked to my brother about this, like, you know, because like I asked him about the situation over there.

Zulma Williams: And he's like, I don't think you will have survived here.

Zulma Williams: Like, I think that if you will have to stay here, you wouldn't be having this conversation because you will have had a stroke or a heart attack or, you know, like the quality of life is so the life is completely different over there.

Zulma Williams: But you either adapt to that life or it's going to kill you, literally.

Zulma Williams: So even with all the challenges here in America and everything, like I love my life here.

Zulma Williams: Even with the challenges that I experienced, being an immigrant and having an accent.

Zulma Williams: Like I had people making fun of my accent my entire life in America.

Zulma Williams: And it was very like bullying me about it and it's like well uh like i i used to work with a manager and he would be like no don't you you don't say like this you said like this until one day i look at him i say can you read a book in spanish and there was this silence and i said i didn't think so and i turned around and left and then he never bullied me again and i know i have a strong accent but when i say fuck do you understand Right yes and i have this not the majority of americans like most people

Zulma Williams: are like oh my god i love your accent and there they make an effort to and like if you make that for come on you can understand right which shows you that and i'm fucking doing podcasts now right like it's like oh okay like you overcome that fucking trigger it's like because i think that what i had to say is more important than having a couple of people say no i didn't understand one fucking word she said okay can you fucking understand me now like i didn't allow am i recovery

Zulma Williams: people please believe it or not so before the cancer i tried to please everybody so the cancer came to like to help me reprioritize what was important.

Zulma Williams: And you know what is important? What makes me happy.

Zulma Williams: Because if I'm working on my happiness, I'm going to be a better person and a better friend and a better clinician and a better podcaster and a better everything.

Zulma Williams: Because I'm working on me. If I try to please you and try to please him and try to please her, I get lost in all that.

Zulma Williams: Right? So I said, oh, Kevin likes that, my accent, but John doesn't like my accent.

Zulma Williams: And Mary, okay, you know what? This is my accent. This is how I talk.

Zulma Williams: Can I tone it down? Because this is your show and I want to be respectful of that. Absolutely.

Zulma Williams: Like I had one podcast. It was live and he is a pastor and he said, you cannot, it has to be clean. I was like, fuck.

Zulma Williams: Not long as 60 minutes of my life like please lord don't let me say fuck please lord don't let me say shit like you know but at the end of that podcast I realized that I can do it it takes a lot out of me but I can do it now my one pod my own show is keeping it real with Sulba the therapist do I cast in my own show you bet your ass I do because it's mine but when I go into your show when I go into your house. I'm respecting you.

Kevin Lowe: Yes.

Zulma Williams: When I came to this country, the main thing that I wanted to do was to learn the language.

Zulma Williams: When I was able to become a citizen, I did it out of respect and to honor this country because this country gave me in one third of the time all the opportunities that my country of birth didn't give.

Zulma Williams: I didn't become a hardworking person when I moved to America.

Zulma Williams: I was already hardworking, but over there, you are hardworking to survive.

Zulma Williams: Yeah. Over there, I am hardworking, and I can rent my own apartment and have my own car.

Zulma Williams: Like a lot of things that are taken for granted in America are luxuries in other parts.

Zulma Williams: Well, I was going to say in other parts of the world. Like I fucking traveled the world.

Zulma Williams: I didn't. but their luxuries in argentina like i was 31 i was still living with my mom yes because i didn't the job and even if i had a job i couldn't live on my own the job could not sustain that i rent an apartment and i have a car and i leave so i appreciate i think that i have a different appreciation for things that most people who were born here will take for granted like i had a Teenager working at the dry cleaners and she got all offended because her dad bought a car for

Zulma Williams: her mom's on valentine's day but no not a car for her and look at her as a bitch i didn't have a car until i was 33 you know what i mean but is is she at fault she doesn't know better yep yep right like so i think that a lot of like you know we need to help children understand like how to appreciate things better but at the same time we are giving them everything that we didn't have so of course the kid is going to expect the fucking car at 16 and a newer car at 18 and you know

Zulma Williams: what i mean like i encourage people to travel like go to different places and see how people live in in other parts of the world like a poor person here is different than a poor person in argentina yeah it's different so it's hard to understand it's hard to comprehend unless you live there and you're like oh yeah shit like she's right right like so So I have left a lot of things behind, but I will not change my life.

Zulma Williams: I don't regret my decisions.

Zulma Williams: Again, like, you know, me being in Argentina in 2012, that meant that I got to spend time with my mom before she passed.

Zulma Williams: Right. So my dad passed in November of 2020.

Zulma Williams: She died of COVID. And I was here and I couldn't travel over there.

Zulma Williams: Because even if I went there, I had to quarantine for two weeks, right?

Zulma Williams: I wasn't able to see him. So the circumstances were completely different.

Zulma Williams: And we make choices.

Zulma Williams: When we go to a different culture, a different country, we make choices. But it's kind of like...

Zulma Williams: The benefits outweigh the risks right like it's like oh yes i left a lot of things behind but i have gained a lot of six too yeah so so you miss birthdays and weddings and births and whatever but it's you cannot be like i you mentioned like oh did you ever thought about like going back or when when she got uh hard no because i didn't even realize that quitting was an option not with coming to america not with the school not with my treatment like i i didn't even know that fucking not doing my treatment was an option

Zulma Williams: so when i first got there lost my first reaction was like, why me? Right?

Zulma Williams: And then upon reflection, so I don't have kids, but I had my mom, I had a sister, I have nieces, I have female friends.

Zulma Williams: So I was reflecting and then I was, would I have preferred that my mom got the cancer instead of me? And the answer is no.

Zulma Williams: So I changed the question from why me to why not me?

Zulma Williams: And then, so I moved away from the victim mentality of why me, right, to why not me, and then I made a decision.

Zulma Williams: I can sit in the corner and cry myself waiting to die, or I get up and I fight.

Zulma Williams: So I chose to get up and fight, right?

Zulma Williams: So when you made those choices, and for all the listeners, you have a 100% track record of overcoming every challenge that you were presented with. How do I know? Because you're here.

Zulma Williams: So whatever shit happened to you could not take you out.

Zulma Williams: So why would this challenge be different? So you need to approach this challenge.

Zulma Williams: And when I say this to my clients, they're like, bitch, you know, but it's true.

Zulma Williams: Because at the time that you were to sink back to the worst challenge that you have confronted in your life, and at that time, you had no fucking clue how you're going to make it tomorrow.

Zulma Williams: You had no clue how the fuck you were going to make it today.

Zulma Williams: And yet, you kept pushing through.

Zulma Williams: So you took yourself out of that shit. but we have a tendency to forget Right. So you are going through your own challenges. How the fuck do you do it one fucking day at a time?

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

Zulma Williams: And if one day is too long, you do it one hour at a time. And if one hour is too long, you keep pushing through 15 minutes at a time.

Zulma Williams: Because if I ask you, can you push through for 15 minutes?

Zulma Williams: Can you push through this shit for 15 minutes? Yeah. Well, you don't want to, but yes, it's manageable. Right.

Zulma Williams: Four of those make one hour 24 of those make one day seven of those make one week and so on and so forth so i'm happy to report 12 years of being cancer free but i achieved that one fucking day at a time in certain occasions i achieved that 15 fucking minutes at a time because i don't want to make it sound like oh it's all fucking rainbow rainbows and and unicorns i had days that i was like I'm on top of the world and I had days that I don't even know how to fucking get out of bed. I still have those days.

Zulma Williams: But those days where I don't know how to get out of bed, I push through 15 minutes out of bed.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. Zoma, you...

Kevin Lowe: You have so much wisdom to share. The wisdom that you've shared today, the insights, it's absolutely amazing.

Kevin Lowe: I think you are absolutely incredible.

Kevin Lowe: Thank you. And I mean, I say that in the most sincere way possible.

Kevin Lowe: Just getting to hear your story, getting to hear all that you just had to share today just made an impact on my life and just totally made my day better.

Kevin Lowe: For the person who's listening, who they are feeling the same and they want to be able to stay in touch with you, where can we send them?

Kevin Lowe: What is the best way that somebody can stay in touch with you?

Zulma Williams: The best way will be to follow me on Instagram at The Swearing Therapist.

Zulma Williams: I have a lot of videos there about mental health. So you can follow me on Instagram at The Swearing Therapist, or you can contact me through my website, dragonflytherapyservices.net.

Zulma Williams: I'm only licensed in Nevada, so if you are not a resident of Nevada, we probably cannot do therapy.

Zulma Williams: But whatever you want to ask, just send me a message.

Zulma Williams: And if I cannot help you directly, I will certainly try to provide you with resources. yeah

Kevin Lowe: Well fantastic I will be sure that all those links are in the episode show notes Zoma such a pleasure having you on the podcast thank you so much for sharing your story.

Zulma Williams: Thank you thank you so much for having me I know your fucking story is so inspiring so just to close I'd like to say to the listeners if you woke up today that means that your mission in life is not done.

Zulma Williams: So keep pushing through 15 minutes at a time.

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