The Swearing Therapist on Moving to America, Midlife Reinvention, & Flipping Off Society’s Timeline

And may I say, OMG, you are going to love her.

Basically, Zoma, she's raw.

She's real and also resilient.

And that is exactly what we're tapping into for you.

Because today you're gonna be entertained, but you're also gonna be empowered.

Because you're gonna take what she's been through and you're gonna be able to put it into application in your life.

As you will hear, Zoma's story has us starting off in Argentina where she grew up.

But then it switches to her navigating life as an immigrant in America.

You'll hear the stories of her battling cancer, dealing with heartbreak, and becoming a therapist.

But the thing that I love the most about her story is this idea of basically saying Cyanora to society's timeline, of when we're supposed to have those certain boxes checked off.

Because Zoma shows us that life's timeline, it's individual to each of us.

You are on your own timeline.

This is your story, it is your opportunity to write it however it goes.

So, my friend, if you feel like you can use a little hope, if you feel like you can use a little fiery inspiration, a reminder that you are right where you're meant to be, that it is not too late to pursue your dreams, my friend, this is for you.

This is episode 399 of Grace and Inspiration.

I'm of course your host, Kevin Lowe, and my friend, it is my honor and pleasure, and dare I say excitement, to introduce you to today's fiery guest, none other than Zoma Williams.

My friend, this is my interview with the swearing therapist.

SPEAKER_01: I got Chris, for Riction Noma.

SPEAKER_04: What is going on, and welcome back to the podcast.

Today I have the pleasure of being in the studio with Zoma Williams.

SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

How are you, Kevin?

SPEAKER_04: I am doing amazing.

How are you today?

You doing good?

SPEAKER_00: Yes, so excited to be here.

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04: Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, well, Zoma, I would love for us to dive into your story, and where I would really love to begin is I know that you are originally from Argentina, and so I would love to hear from you a little bit about life for you growing up.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, yes, I was born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

I came to the United States when I was 31, so I was an adult.

Growing up in Buenos Aires, it was my mom was a homemaker, my dad was the one working and providing for the family.

It was like a quote-unquote normal childhood, but I didn't know any different.

So I played a lot in the street and with my my neighbors, and we will come home when the light, you know, the street lights went on and all those things, which was uh what I consider a pretty standard childhood, but growing up, and then when I moved here and I start looking back, I realized that it was completely different than a childhood in America.

But because I didn't have any anything to compare to, I was like, oh, okay, shit, like this is this is normal, right?

Like so, for example, we had one car uh that it was a family of five, and the only one who drove the car was my dad, and it was only for emergencies because we barely could afford insurance and gas money.

So my dad rode the bus every day to go to work, right?

And it was like two hours to go and two hours to come back.

So I realized that we have like what we consider normal is like it's a perfective issue, right?

Depending on where you are.

But I had uh, you know, like uh we didn't have any luxuries, but I I I went to public school, like I I had the friends uh in in my neighborhood, like I didn't, like I rode the bus to go to school when I went into high school.

To public school, I would walk in elementary, I would walk to the school, and then for high school I will take the bus, but it was it was like a 10-minute bus ride, so it wasn't like too far from where I live.

But all the action was was happening like in in the capital, right?

Like in in the city.

So like it will take two hours to get to the action per se, right?

Like which was where the jobs were and all that.

So it was awesome to me.

Now I have my friends who have children, and I was like, oh shit, you know, like they go everywhere in the car, and like my friends' children have a completely different life than than I had.

Now, granted, this is fucking gonna be 60 this year.

So this is like uh 50 years ago, right?

55 years ago, but it was a nice time growing up.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.

Now, you said that you did not actually leave to come to America till you were 31?

Yes.

Now, why at that point in your life?

Because I know I've interviewed people on the podcast before who've lived in other countries and they came to America like after they finished high school, like for college and stuff.

So what made you at 31 decide to leave?

SPEAKER_00: So coming to America was a a teenager dream of mine.

But, you know, I at that time, at 31, I didn't have a job.

Like I was without a job for like a couple of years.

I was still living with my mom.

I didn't have a family, I didn't have children, I didn't have a boyfriend.

I was like, it's it's kind of like when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.

SPEAKER_02: Right?

SPEAKER_00: So I took it as an adventure, but a precipitating event, because I was toying with this idea of like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna go to America, see what's what's going on there, blah, blah, blah.

But I had a cousin who died of an stroke, and he was 31.

So we were like very close in age, and that was a precipitated event because when you are 30, when you are young, you you think that God you have your entire life in front of you.

And my cousin's death kind of like put everything into perspective.

I was like, bitch, you better fucking start talking right now.

So that was the main precipitated event was like life is happening right now, and it can change at any minute.

So I went to my therapist and I told him, like, oh, I'm going.

So, because I've been talking to him, like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I'm thinking of going to America, and then my cousin died, and then I'm like, I'm fucking living in two months.

You know what I mean?

Like, it was an unfortunate event, but that opened my eyes because uh you think that you have time.

We all think that we have time, we don't.

Life can change in a second.

So like I I decided I was gonna move here, and I did it in it was December of 1996.

It was Christmas, right?

Like it was like a fucking movie, like all the houses were decorated with the lights, and everybody was like in the festive, you know, in the Christmas spirit.

It was kind of like coming here was kind of like I was even in a movie, then fucking reality set in.

But at the beginning, you know, when I first landed, like it was like being in a movie, but I took it as an adventure.

My mom gave me her blessing, and she was like, if it doesn't work out, you always have your home here and and food.

And and I was like, okay, like I don't have anything to lose.

So because I have nothing.

So I was going up from there.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, now before moving to America, had you ever visited America just on vacation?

SPEAKER_00: No, no, it was my first actually before moving to America it was my fucking first time in on an airplane.

SPEAKER_04: What?

Oh my gosh!

SPEAKER_00: Yes, so it was an adventure, like like when I tell you that it was a movie, it was a fucking movie.

Like I didn't even know how to fasten the feedback.

SPEAKER_05: Wow.

SPEAKER_00: Like I was mesmerized by the entire experience.

I remember I first landed in Miami, and then I so I have an uncle and my aunt and my cousins living in in California, so that's where I first went.

But I first landed in Miami, and I remember so I knew how to write and read English, but now how to speak because I learned in high school.

So there is like 35 students, you know, you don't have time to be practicing the verbal.

But uh, so I I got to Miami and then the the guy said asked me a couple of questions, and I'm looking at him like, What did you not say?

I didn't do it, you know, like so he he he put his hair like a like a stop, right?

And then he went to get a piece of paper and they quite with the questions on it.

And the questions were like, was your luggage with you the entire time, or like have you received anything that you know, like the normal security question?

And I was like, Oh yes, oh no, you know, like I knew how to fucking read and write, right?

Like, so like it was like the entire experience was like an adventure.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

Now, was there any point on that plane ride or landing or anything that you ever thought to yourself, oh my gosh, I made a mistake.

I want to go home.

SPEAKER_00: No.

SPEAKER_04: No.

SPEAKER_00: Not even in my worst times, so not not on the trip here.

So I went to Florida, then I stopped.

I I don't know, I would I like I flew for like fucking 20 hours, but because it was cheaper that way, right?

Like the ticket was cheaper.

But even uh after, you know, while I was always mesmerized and whatever, even when I I was having a hard time at the beginning, it was going back was never an option.

It was like, no, this is a decision that I made and I'm gonna tough it up, you know, like because at the first inconvenience, you're like, oh, I'm going home.

Bench, like fucking put your big girl panties on and fucking deal with it.

And that's what I did.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.

Now, you said that you landed in Miami where you had some family.

Now, did you stay in Miami?

SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.

I didn't have family in Miami.

I had family in Los Angeles, but that was Miami was the first part of entrance, right?

I could have flown to Los Angeles, but the ticket that way would have been a lot more expensive.

So I did it like a like a longer trip to save money because I didn't have any money.

SPEAKER_05: Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00: So I had a hundred dollars in my possession that my godmother gave me, and my dad lent me the money for the ticket, and that was it.

And now if I had to fly, I'm like, I'll fucking look at Delta the shortest flight.

You know what I mean?

Like I fucking do it in 16 hours, but at the time, and and also it was part of the adventure, right?

Like, oh my god, I'm gonna be in in three planes or four planes or whatever.

Like, okay, like you know, I didn't give a shit because I didn't want to, it's not like oh my god, I had like let's say that if you fly somewhere for a conference or whatever, like you wanted to do it time effective, I was exhausted.

SPEAKER_04: Yes, absolutely.

So now your final destination was California.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was Los Angeles.

My cousin went to pick me up at the airport, and he took me momentarily to his home because he needed to go back to work.

He's like, okay, you know, here is the shower, like, you know, like make yourself at home.

I didn't even know how to fucking turn on the fucking shower here.

Right?

So I didn't even know what my fucking name was.

Like, you know, I've been flying for 20 hours, like I don't know where I'm at, what my name is, whatever.

But I I figured it out.

I took a shower, I relaxed, I had, you know, something to eat, and and then he came back and picked me up and took me to his father's home, right?

Like which is where I was gonna be staying.

And you know, it it was so important.

So this is this is my mom's brother, right?

My uncle on my mom's side.

And I was 31, and he uh was helping me, he had a bakery at the time in California, and he gave me a job there and to help me, you know, get on my feet, and then which I was very grateful for, but then he started trying to control me, right?

Like who at that time writing letters to, right?

We didn't even have email, internet wasn't even a thing.

So who I'm writing letters to, who I'm calling, yeah, because I was buying the calling cards from him, sir.

I'm fucking 31 years old.

Like I'm not a baby, you know what I mean?

Like, but because he couldn't control his own children, which were about my age, he tried to control me.

And I was like, I don't think this is gonna fucking work out.

And and I I was devastated by I told my mom because I didn't want to create an issue for my mom, right, with her brother.

Yes, uh, and mom said you you do what is best for you, and um so I moved, I moved, left the job, like I found a different job, like I started to build my own path while being very grateful because again, like I didn't, you know, I didn't know anything about America or the culture or whatever, and and I certainly didn't have a car, I didn't know how to drive.

But I'm like, no, I'm I'm an adult, and and you know, I do appreciate your help, but I'm gonna I had to do what I had to do, like, you know, like so my dad had a nephew.

So my dad is he was born and raised in Syria, and he moved to Argentina when he was 18.

So I didn't know any of my family on my dad's side because they were all in Syria and I was in Argentina.

So a nephew calls my dad and he said, Uncle, I'm in America, I'm in California.

And he said, Oh, my daughter is in California.

And I connected with that cousin that I never met before on my dad's side.

He didn't speak Spanish, I didn't speak Arabic, every fucking communicated in basic English and pointed at things.

We hit it off, and I and I I moved to another part.

Oh, okay, so when where my uncle, my maternal uncle was, was in a Mexican neighborhood, right?

Like so I started going to school to learn English a second language, and I I learned I have like a master's in fucking Mexican, but I didn't learn English, right?

Because again, they weren't we weren't laughing in the class, and I the things that they were teaching, I already knew that.

But what I needed was to practice thinking, right?

So my my cousin on my dad's side was in a an all-whigh in another part of California, and that's when I fucking learned English, you know, like because I was immersed, like one of the things that I learned was more slowly, please.

Because we we speak naturally, all of us, we speak very fast in our native tongue.

So like I was working in a landromat, you know, the one that you drop your clothes and then you come pick them up.

So I was like, motherfucker, slow down, or you're gonna get the shirts like however I want the starch to be, right?

Because like I had to ask you, you want low starch, medium starch, or high starch for your for your shirts.

And these motherfuckers will be like, eh, I'm like, move it slowly, please, you know, because like I'm like, motherfucker, I'm not understanding what you're saying.

Right?

So then I started and then I started like, you know, I didn't know how what better was in the supermarket, but I fucking learned.

Yeah, because I I was like, I had to speak the language, or I'm not gonna communicate.

You know what I mean?

So uh funny story.

So I'm I'm working at the Landrama, you know, a lot of guys come.

I'm flirting with one of the guys, and I I said to him, bless his home.

I said to him, I'm very easy, right?

So he started laughing and he said, I know what you mean.

The way to say it is like I'm easy going, okay.

So bless his heart because I was easy, you know what I mean?

I'm like, I'm very I'm very easy.

He's like, I I know I know what you mean, that's cute, but you wouldn't say it this way Language murderer, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: Like and you know what, and exactly what you said, that's something that no matter how good the class is, you never would have learned that in in class at college.

SPEAKER_00: Exactly, and there was no OnlyFans at that time, you know what I mean?

Like, so like that was so funny, and I and I look back at those stories and and I'm like, that was cute.

I loved it, and and it was such a great experience.

Oh even the the quote unquote bad moments, because it it taught me how strong I I am.

Like, you know, like how how do you test yourself in adversity?

Right?

Like it's like tell me one person who didn't have adversity in their lives, like yeah, they but they cannot be more, yes, yes, yes, right.

So, but despite the cultural shock and and everything like, for example, like seeing people put ketchup on their fries, I was like, you now give me the fucking fries, you know, the ketchup be better be there, but all those experiences, like I I will not change any one of them.

Yes, you know, I learned I learned to drive at I don't know, 32, 33, something like that.

My cousin, my my cousin on my my dad's side taught me how to drive, yeah.

Right?

Like I would not change any of my experiences because they made me who I am today.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, of course.

That's remarkable.

Now, now how long would you stay living in California?

SPEAKER_00: So I was in California for about three years because I was transferred by my job.

So, okay, so then I I moved up in the corporate world and I went from a landermat to a uh a dry cleaner and uh they in California and they were expanding in Nevada.

So they wanted to send people who, you know, they want to implement their system here in Nevada.

So I was transferred from my job to Las Vegas in April of 1999.

They sent me and another guy who was also single at the time.

They sent the two of us for, he was a guy from a different location, so like we really kind of like wanted here.

But they sent us because we were the single and we didn't have family, so it was a lot cheaper for them.

But this motherfucker sent us in April to see if we like it in Vegas, right?

April is so nice in Vegas, like the weather is nice.

So we both say yes, we're gonna move, and then we move in May and we are fucking mounting, you know, it's already a hundred crazy, you know.

So, anyhow, I moved to to Las Vegas because of work, and then I started to for that job, and then I got fired a year later because I Nevada is uh To work state, so I referred to a manager as a fucking bitch, and it got to her ears and I showed up to work with my uniform all cute and everything, and they said, We don't have any more work for you.

Like I was like, Oh shit, you know, like so, but but that time I already got in a boyfriend here, and and I had my friends, so I was like, Well, fuck it, you know, I just stay.

But so yes, I was in California for about three years, and then I moved to Nevada, and I've been here basically since.

SPEAKER_04: Wow, wow.

Now, culture as far as moving from Argentina to California, California to Vegas, what was the bigger shock?

I mean, obviously coming Argentina to America, but I mean, was it a big difference for you going from California to Vegas?

SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was.

Obviously, the as you said, the major cultural shock was moving from Buenos Aires to California.

But having lived in California for about two and a half, three years, and then moving to Nevada, the thing was that in California, I was living walking distance from the beach.

So my job was two blocks from the beach.

So I will leave work, go to the beach, see the sun, the sunset, and then go home and have dinner and whatever.

I moved here where like we have sun, but not water, right?

And I was like devastated, number one, because of the weather.

I mean, last year in July, we had 117 degrees.

Like it was impossible to, like, that's not humanly possible to live here.

You know what I mean?

Like, so the weather was horrible.

We I didn't have the ocean, which I'm an ocean girl.

Like I will I will sit there and fucking do nothing.

Like I get mesmerized by the ocean.

So I didn't have the ocean.

Uh, it was the bus system here is completely different.

In California, like in in Los Angeles, you can go anywhere by via bus, right?

Like, like you have you have a lot of connections, like, and I was that's what I was doing.

But when I moved here, I'm like, the system the bus system here was horrible.

So I had to, I've been working 12 hours and it's so hot, and then I take the bus, and then I had to walk another 15 minutes until I get home.

Like I was exhausted.

I was exhausted and I was waiting like 97 pounds.

You know what I mean?

Like, I was like, oh shit, like I I am liking this.

But uh like I needed to buy a car immediately, right?

Like this is it was like you need a car to move here.

And people are different, right?

Like, so I got a lot more Hispanic community, believe it or not, because of where I was living in California.

Although there is a lot of community, the city I was living in in Playa del Rey, which is next to Marina del Rey, uh, next to LAX, and there was a it was a white neighborhood.

So I moved here, and there is like a lot of Hispanic people and in certain areas of Las Vegas, and you know, like, but the dry cleaners was a high-end dry cleaners, so I I'm gonna sign so classes and races, but the reality is that the Hispanics that were in the dry cleaners were us working there, not the people who came to drop off their clothes.

So, yeah, it was a kind of a cultural shock to move here to Las Vegas from California, and then uh many, many, many years later, I went to Pennsylvania, that's where my best friend is from, and I went to Pennsylvania and I was like, people are so nice here, like that was another cultural shock because like everybody was so nice here, like you know, people were so nice over there.

I was like, oh, this would people say that we are rude in the West Coast, and because we are fucking rude in the West Coast, like but it's a way to like you know, everybody does it, so you don't know better.

Like I remember when I went to Parker, Pennsylvania, like my friend took me, like I I saw for the first time, I was like 45 or 46 at the time, but it was my first time seeing a fucking apple tree in person, right?

So oh my god, he has apples, and she was laughing.

Yeah, it's a fucking apple tree.

What is it gonna have?

Bananas, you know, it's gonna have apples.

But I said, Can I can I grab one?

So I grab an apple from the fucking apple tree, and then I I look at her.

Her sister was laughing, she was dying, the city girl, right in the country, and I so I grabbed the apple and I said, Can I eat it?

Like I was afraid to eat the fucking apple from the apple tree because I got my apples at the supermarket.

SPEAKER_04: Yes, that is so funny.

SPEAKER_00: But that that showed you, you know, like I was like, I was seeing different shades of green in the trees, and the and I was like, oh my god, that is why there are different shades of green, because here we have green and and and beige because like the fucking grass is dying.

You know what I mean?

Like you have green and brown, like that's those are the two fucking colors for the grass.

Like so, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: I mean, yeah, I mean you went from basically the desert to this this flourishing forest of a uh of a place to live.

SPEAKER_00: Right, right.

Her sister had an Airbnb uh on the you know by the side of the river, and I was like, oh my god, they look at natural water here, like we don't know what fucking water is in Nevada, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: Like Yes, yes, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00: So yes, it was a cultural shock moving to Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.

So now you you told us that you you got fired from from your job that had you moved to Vegas.

Now, you'll have to fill in the gaps.

Obviously, there's a job in between or something, but at some point in time you actually decided to go back to college, correct?

SPEAKER_00: Yes, so I got fired a year after I moved to Vegas, and I I just you know was doing different jobs until I landed a job in an office and I learned all about accounting and and admin stuff, and which was a huge change because like, oh my god, I'm in an office, I'm sitting down at a desk with AC.

You know what I mean?

Like I was kind of like moving up in the ladder, and then I was working in an accounting department of a big corporation.

I was 42 at that time, and I and I started kind of like reflecting about my future, and and I was like, I just think I don't want to be doing this for another 25 years.

And that's when I enrolled in college.

I always wanted to be a therapist.

Like I have people come to me and tell me like shit that they haven't called nobody, and they're like, oh my god, I never sent this to anybody.

And and I was like, I better start fucking charging for this, you know.

So charging for that, I need to be nice.

And so I started school at at 42, but I never quit my job.

So I was working full-time in accounting.

And this I think that it's important for people to realize that you don't have to leave everything while you are building your future.

I continued to work in accounting my entire career while I was building the stepping stones for a different future.

It wasn't like all or nothing.

It wasn't like, oh no, I cannot be doing accounting if I'm gonna be doing social work.

Accounting was what was paying my bills at the time that I was getting myself ready for a different future as a therapist, but I was doing both things.

I didn't need to choose.

So I graduated at 46 with my Bachelor of Social Work.

I was I graduated in December and then I was on track to start my master's in August.

That's where the master's at University of Nevada, Las Vegas started at that time.

So I graduated in December, and six weeks later I got diagnosed with breast cancer.

So I had my life uh all planned, but you know, life is what happens when you have different plans.

So I just put a stop to my my higher education to take care of my health.

I got my surgery here, surgery and radiation here, but I decided to move back to Argentina at that time to be closer to my family.

And so I moved back, I got diagnosed in February, I had surgery in April, I did radiation in May, and then I moved in June.

I moved to Argentina in June, which was another cultural shock.

Because I was there after 14, 15 years of living in America, and I was like, oh hell no.

You know, like I remember why I fucking moved out.

Uh because like my friends were telling me, like, you need to calm down, you're gonna you're gonna have a heart attack.

Because I was so no, but but there is a different way of doing things like that was like another cultural shock.

I was there for a year and a half doing my treatment, which at the beginning was very intensive.

Like I would go, it was a public hospital, and I would go to the hospital every three weeks, whatever.

But then after a year and a half of me being there, my mom unexpectedly passed away.

So the bigger picture of you know, in the bigger scheme of things, I was meant to be there.

Because she got to see me that I was doing well.

It this isn't wasn't just like a phone conversation that, oh, I'm okay, and then I came up and I'm fucking dying.

No, she got to see me that I was okay.

Yeah, I was meant to be there at that time, and then I, you know, I was in a romantic relationship that didn't work out, and and it was like, you know what?

And then the treatment started getting like, thank God that the the treatment was working.

I survived, I'm here, right?

Like, so the treatment was working, and then I decided, like, you know, I had it, I'm going back to America.

So in February of 2015, that year, I I was still in 50 in 2015.

So I was like, I'm gonna celebrate my 50th birthday in America and I'm gonna move back.

So I asked.

Well, so I decided to move back in February, but I had appointments up until the end of April, and I didn't want to lose those appointments because I didn't know how long it was gonna take me to re-establish care here in America.

So I was like, okay, let me keep my appointments and I'm gonna move there in May.

So I'm I'm praying uh for a sign, like, okay, Lord, like please let me know if this is the right decision, blah, blah, blah.

And out of the blue, so at the university, I'm sure all universities are the same, but here at University of Nevada, Las Vegas, when you are a student, you have a student email, right?

But after you graduate, they deactivate the email after like about two years or whatever that you graduated.

So this has been three years that I graduated.

So my UNLB email was no longer working, and I get a fucking email on my personal Yahoo account from the university saying, Hey, we have the advanced Master of Social Work program back.

Do you want to enroll?

I'm like, okay, Laura, like check.

Like, I asked for a sign, you fucking make a fucking banner.

You know.

So I came back in May.

I started, so you it's an advanced program, so it's very intensive, it's one year.

And you know, so the classes started in in May because it's a summer uh semester and then two more semesters, and then you're done.

So I came, I came here, I hit the ground running, I was doing school full-time, I was working part-time, and a year later I graduated at 51.

So when you know, like when I have clients and I'm like, oh, I'm too old, you know, to go back.

I'm like, motherfucker, I I started my master's at 50, and English is not my first language.

You're barking at the wrong tree, you know what I mean?

Like, so if anything, cancer came to show me how bad I wanted to be a therapist.

SPEAKER_05: Yes.

SPEAKER_00: Because it didn't stop me, it only delayed me.

SPEAKER_05: Yes.

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: Nobody would have blame me if I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not gonna go for my master's like, I'm gonna go back to accounting, like, oh yeah, poor you, you had cancer, blah, blah, blah.

No.

I I had cancer, I did my treatment, and then I continue with my plan.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

Wow.

I think, I mean, that aspect of your story alone speaks so highly of the person that you are.

The fact of that drive to continue on with your dream, I think is really remarkable.

SPEAKER_00: Thank you.

SPEAKER_04: Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: We all have those stories, right?

Like, it's like we all go through fucking challenges.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

Yeah.

So when you graduated from this master's, what is your title today?

SPEAKER_00: So I graduated with a master's of social work, and then I wanted to go the clinical route, which is to do therapy.

It's an internship, it's about two and a half to three years.

You have to to do two thousand hours of direct contact, which is either individual therapy or couples therapy or family therapy, and then a thousand hours of other.

And after you get the three thousand hours, you take a clinical exam and you become licensed.

So I'm my title right now is licensed clinical social worker.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

Now, Zoma, I don't want to like say that you're a liar, but that is not the title that I heard.

SPEAKER_00: No, I'm the swearing therapist.

I'm a fucking damp.

Thank you for bringing that up.

SPEAKER_04: You are the swearing therapist, which for any of us who have been listening today, we can't imagine where that name came from.

SPEAKER_00: Right.

So, but but in order to be the swearing therapist, first I had to become a licensed clinical social person, right?

SPEAKER_05: Okay.

SPEAKER_00: So when I was doing my internship, it's kind of like when you are in your internship, you take whatever, whomever client walks through the door, right?

So because that's how you are, you are building up uh who you are as a clinician.

So once I became fully licensed, I was telling I work in community mental health, so I will tell the clinical director.

Now your internship is another, it's a time where like you find out who you are more comfortable working with, not only in terms of population, but also in terms of diagnosis.

So I will, when I was fully licensed, now remember, I'm I'm 51 when I started my internship.

So I'm fully licensed at 53 and a half.

I'm already, I've been fucking old for 20 years at this point.

So don't fucking tell me I don't know what I want.

You know what I mean?

Like it's not like I'm trying to figure it out.

So I will tell my clinical director, like, oh, don't give me couples because I don't, you know, I don't like working with couples.

Here comes a couple because they speak Spanish and I'm bilingual Spanish.

Bitch, which part of don't give me a couple?

Didn't you get?

Get more fucking bilingual therapists.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, so so and I will say, like, oh, okay, well, don't give me someone dealing with substance abuse.

So I that's how I founded my own practice because I was like, no, I want to work with highly motivated adults.

Here is my ideal client is a highly motivated adult who is dealing with anxiety, depression, and or trauma.

I'm your girl.

But if you have substance abuse, if you have a mood disorder, if you have a personality disorder, I will refer you out.

Because that's not what what I do.

And it's kind of like if you have heart issues, you're not gonna go to a fucking gastroenterologist.

So you're gonna go to a cardiologist.

If you cannot poop, don't go to the cardiologist, go to the GI doctor.

And and here is the thing: like I do a consultation call.

So let's say that you want to work with me and you you fill out the form in my website, I will schedule a time to talk to see number one, if we are a good match.

And number two, what is it that you are that you want out of therapy, right?

Because if your goals don't align with the service that I provide, I will gladly refer you out to encourage millions of therapists.

It doesn't have to be me.

I'm glad that you want to do therapy so that you can feel better.

But it doesn't have to be with me.

Now, in that consultation call, shit and fuck is gonna come out of my mouth.

So if you are not comfortable with me cussing, I'm not the girl for you.

SPEAKER_05: Yes.

SPEAKER_00: Which is fine too, because there are a lot of fucking therapists who don't cast.

Go to them.

Like, and I know a lot of them, you know, like it doesn't have to be me.

I don't take it personal.

With me, you either we click and you love me, or you cannot stand me.

There's no like, oh I'm not sure about something.

No, you cannot fucking stand the bitch, or you click, right?

And if we don't click, the therapeutic relationship is not gonna work because 80% of the success of therapy is a therapeutic relationship.

If we don't click, you're not gonna trust me, you're not gonna open up.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: So, and then I have clients who they think that they are ready to work, because I'm like, listen, this is your life, and life is too short.

I don't have time to be holding your hand, oh poor Kevin, like, do you want to change?

Like, no, there are other therapies for that.

You come to me when you decide that you really want your life to improve, and we are gonna hit the ground running because I'm not playing, right?

Like, so you told me you want to feel better.

We are gonna be working on you feeling better, but I'm not gonna do it for you.

I cannot want this more than you want it for yourself.

Yeah, so you are the driver.

We are in a car and you are the driver.

I'm the GPS.

I'll give you direction, like I guide you, but you had to give ignition and you have to turn the car on and you need to drive, otherwise, we're we're in fucking moving.

SPEAKER_03: Yep.

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm not gonna do it for you.

SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, I love that, and I I think that is such a perfect analogy of the GPS.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, because so, for example, let's say that you want to hang a picture, right?

As a therapist, I will take you to the hardware store, I will show you what the hammer is, what nails are, I'll show you, I'll show you how to do it, but then you have to do it yourself.

Because if you don't learn, then the next time that you need to hang a picture, you're gonna need me.

SPEAKER_05: Yes.

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: So my goal as soon as you walk into my office is to get you the fuck out of my office.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Because that means that you learn the tools and you can apply it.

Like, listen, I love you, have a good life, but I don't want to fucking I don't want you here for 20 years.

You know what I mean?

Like, I think that we all should go to therapy because we need that that neutral perspective.

My job as a therapist is to provide you with a different perspective about your situation, because when you are in the picture, you cannot see the picture.

But like I I have my therapist and and I need that neutral perspective.

But if it's something so let's say it's debilitating.

An anxiety that you are dealing with, or a sexual assault that you are dealing with, or you know, trauma from shooting, or whatever it might be.

I want to provide you with those tools and help you with that so that doesn't continue to hinder your life.

So, like for the acute shit, yes, like let's let's work on it, uh give you a kiss and have a good life.

Now, if you want to have more like a that you know neutral perspective, yes, I can I can do long-term therapy, but it's not because you still cannot uh control your anxiety and and you know it's like no, we are gonna work on that so you have all the tools so that you can manage your own anxiety, and you don't need me every fucking week reminding you, like, oh okay, take a deep breath.

So I I give a lot of homework because I use a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy.

So let's say that you get anxious before doing a podcast.

So I will say, okay, take a deep breath.

We use a grounding technique, blah, blah, blah.

Okay, you come next week and you're like, I got so nervous before doing the podcast.

Okay, did you take the deep breath and do the grounding technique?

No.

Well, guess what your fucking homework is gonna be this week?

To take a deep breath and do a grounding technique.

Because you didn't, you didn't try it.

So, how do I know if it works if you don't fucking try it?

Right now, if you told me, yes, I did it and it didn't work out for me, perfect.

I'll give you a different tool.

But I'm giving you the tools because you go to the doctor and they give you medication and you still feel like shit, did you take it?

No, sir, you need to take the medication.

But how do you know if the meds work if you don't take them?

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Now you use the medication and you're like, I cannot handle the side effects, whatever, or you don't feel better.

Okay, let's try it with a different one.

And that's what I mean by a highly motivated adult.

Trust me, do it and then tell me this shit doesn't work.

Okay, but don't tell me the hammer and the nail doesn't work.

Or the hammer doesn't work on the nail if you didn't try it.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

Wow, Zoma, when I'm listening to you, I have to wonder, given where you are today, I mean, you're you're in America, you have your own business, you've you've graduated with your master's degree, you've overcome breast cancer, all of these things.

Could you ever have imagined as a child that you would be at this place in your life?

SPEAKER_00: No.

Not as a child, not as a fucking adult, not as a no.

SPEAKER_05: No.

SPEAKER_00: But I don't regret any of my experiences.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: I know if I would have stayed in Argentina, my life will be completely different.

I probably wouldn't be alive at this point because, not because of the cancer, but because I would have had the heart attack.

Because I couldn't handle the stress.

So people are like, oh, you're so strong, you move to America.

No, the strong ones are my family who remained there.

Those are the strong ones.

You know what I mean?

Like because 30 years later, I'm on year 29, except the three years I lived here.

So let's say 26 years later, but chronologically, almost 30 years later, that is still dealing with the same fucking corruption and the same system and the same economic issues.

And and I talked to my brother about this, like, you know, because like I asked him about the situation over there, and he's like, I I don't think you would have survived here.

Like I think that if you will have to stay here, you we wouldn't be having this conversation because you would have got a stroke or a heart attack, or you know, like the quality of life is so the life is completely different over there.

But you either adapt to that life or or it's gonna kill you, literally.

So even with all the challenges here in America and and everything, like I love my life here, even with the challenges that I experienced being an immigrant and having an accent.

Like I had people making fun of my accent my entire life in America.

And it was very like bullying me about it.

And it's like, well, uh like I used to work with the manager, and he would be like, No, don't you you don't say like this, you say like this, until one day I look at him and say, Can you read the book in Spanish?

And there was this silence, and I said, Oh, I didn't think so.

And I turn around and left, and then he never bullied me again.

So, and I know I have a strong accent, but when I say fuck, do you understand?

Like, right?

SPEAKER_05: Yes.

SPEAKER_00: And I have this thought the majority of Americans, like the most people are like, Oh my god, I love your accent, and and there they make an effort to and like if you make the effort, come on, you can't understand.

Right?

Which shows you that, and I'm fucking doing podcasts now, right?

Like it's like, oh, okay, like you overcome that fucking trigger.

It's like because I think that what I had to say is more important than having a couple of people saying, Oh, I didn't understand one fucking word she said.

Okay, can you fucking understand me now?

Like, I didn't allow and my recovery people pleaser, believe it or not.

So before the cancer, I tried to please everybody.

So the cancer came to like to help me reprioritize what was important.

And you know what is important?

What makes me happy.

Because if I am, if I'm working on my happiness, I'm gonna be a better person and a better friend and a better clinician and a better podcaster and a better everything because I'm working on me.

If I try to please you and try to please him and try to please her, I get lost in all that, right?

So, oh, Kevin likes that uh my accent, but John doesn't like my accent, and and Mary, and okay, like you know what?

This is my accent, this is how I talk.

You know, can I turn it down because this is your show and I want to be respectful of that?

Absolutely.

Like I had one podcast, it was live, and he is a pastor, and he said, You cannot, it has to be clean.

I was like, fuck! Like longest 60 minutes of my life.

Like, please, Lord, don't let me say fuck, please, Lord, don't let me say shit.

Like, you know, but at the end of that podcast, I realize that I can do it.

It takes a lot out of me, yeah, but I I can do it.

Now, my own pod, my own show is keeping it real with Sulba the Sware Therapist.

Do I cast in my own show?

You bet your ass I do, because it's fine.

But when I go into your show, when I go into your house, I'm respecting you.

SPEAKER_05: Right?

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: When I came to this country, the main thing that I wanted to do was to learn the language.

When I was able to become a citizen, I did it out of respect and to honor this country because this country gave me in one third of the time all the opportunities that my country of birth didn't give me.

I didn't become a hardworking person when I moved to America.

I was already hardworking, but over there you are hardworking to survive.

Over here, I am hardworking and I can rent my own my own apartment and have my own car.

And like a lot of things that are taken for granted in America are luxuries in other parts.

Like, well, other I wasn't saying in other parts of the world, like I I fucking traveled the world, I didn't.

But they're luxuries in Argentina.

Like I would study when I was still living with my mom.

SPEAKER_05: Yes.

SPEAKER_00: Because I didn't have a job.

And even if I had a job, I couldn't live on my own.

The job could not sustain that I rent an apartment and I have a car and I leave.

So I appreciate, I think that I have a different appreciation for things that most people who were born here will take for granted.

Like I had a um teenager working at the dry cleaners, and she got all offended because her dad bought a car for her mom on Valentine's Day, but no, not a car for her.

And look at her as a bitch.

I didn't have a car until I was 33.

You know what I mean?

Is she at fault?

She doesn't know better.

SPEAKER_03: Yep.

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: Right?

Like, so I think that a lot of like, you know, we need to help children understand like how to appreciate things better.

But at the same time, we are giving them everything that we didn't have.

So of course the kid is gonna expect the fucking car at 16 and a newer car at 18.

And you know what I mean?

Like, I encourage people to travel, like go to different places and see how people live in in other parts of the world.

Like if a poor person here is different than a poor person in Argentina.

Yeah, it's different.

So it's it's hard to understand, it's hard to comprehend unless you live there and you're like, oh yeah, shit, like she's right, right?

Like so I have left a lot of things behind, but I will not change my life.

I don't regret my decisions again.

Like, you know, me being in Argentina in 2012, that meant that my that I got to spend time with my mom before she passed.

Right?

So my dad passed in November of 2020, he died of COVID, and I was here and I couldn't travel over there.

Because even if I went there, I had to quarantine for two weeks, right?

I wasn't able to see him.

So the circumstances were completely different.

And we make choices.

When we go to a different culture, a different country, we make choices, but it's kind of like the benefits outweigh the risks, right?

Like it's like, oh yes, I left a lot of things behind, but I have gained a lot of things too.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: So I did so you miss birthdays and weddings and birth and whatever, but it's you cannot be.

Like I I you mentioned, like, oh, did you ever thought about like going back or when when she got uh hard?

No, because I didn't even realize that quitting was an option.

Not with coming to America, not with the school, not with my treatment.

Like I I didn't even know that fucking uh not doing my treatment was an option.

So when I first got diagnosed, my my first reaction was like, why me?

Right?

And then upon reflection, so I I don't have kids, but I but I had my mom, I had a sister, I have nieces, I have female friends.

So I was reflecting, and then I was, would I have preferred that my mom got the cancer instead of me?

And the answer is no.

So I changed the question from why me to why not me.

And then it's so I moved away from the victim mentality of the of why me, right, to why not me.

And then I made a decision.

I can sit in the corner and and cry myself waiting to die, or I get up and I fight.

So I chose to get up and fight, right?

So so when you made those choices, and then and for all uh the listeners, you have it a hundred percent track record of overcoming every challenge that you were presented with, how do I know?

Because you're here, so whatever shit uh happened to you could not take you out.

So, why will this challenge be different?

So you you need to approach this challenge, and and when I say this to my clients, they're like, bitch, you know, but but it's true because at the time that you were to sink back to the worst challenge that you have confronted in your life, and at that time, you had no fucking clue how you're gonna make it tomorrow, you had no clue how the fuck you you were gonna make it today, and yet you kept pushing through, so you took yourself out of that shit, and but we have a tendency to

forget that, right?

So you are going through your own challenges.

How the fuck do you do it one fucking day at a time?

Yeah, and if one day is too long, you do it one hour at a time, and if one hour is too long, you keep pushing through 15 minutes at a time.

Because if I ask you, like, can you push through for 15 minutes?

Can you push through this shit for 15 minutes?

Yeah, well, you don't want to, but yes, it's manageable, right?

Four of those make one hour, 24 of those make one day, seven of those make one week, and so on and so forth.

So I'm happy to report 12 years of being cancer free, but I achieved that one fucking day at a time.

In certain occasions, I achieved that 15 fucking minutes at a time.

Because I don't want to make it sound like oh it's all fucking rainbow, rainbows, and and and unicorns.

I had days that I was like, I'm on top of the world, and I had days that I don't even know how to fucking get out of bed.

I still have those days.

But those days where I don't know how to get out of bed, I push through 15 minutes at a time.

SPEAKER_04: Wow.

Zoma, you uh you have so much wisdom to share.

The the wisdom that you've shared today, the insights is absolutely amazing.

I think you are absolutely incredible.

And I um I say that in the most sincere way possible.

Um just getting to hear your story, getting to hear all that you just had to share today just made an impact on my life.

It just totally made my day better.

For the person who's listening, who they are feeling the same, and they want to be able to be stay in touch with you.

Where can we send them?

What is the best way that somebody can stay in touch with you?

SPEAKER_00: The best way will be to follow me on Instagram at the Swearing Therapist.

I have a lot of videos there about mental health, and so you can you can follow me on Instagram at the Swearing Therapist, or you can contact me through my website, dragonfly therapyservices.net.

I'm only licensed in Nevada, so if you are not a resident of Nevada, I'm we probably cannot do therapy.

But whatever you want to ask, just send me a message.

And if I cannot help you directly, I will certainly try to provide you with resources.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, well, fantastic.

I will be sure that all those links are in the uh episode show notes.

Zoma, such a pleasure having you on the podcast.

Thank you so much for uh sharing your story.

SPEAKER_00: Thank you.

Thank you so much uh for having me.

I know your fucking story is so inspiring.

So just uh to close, I'd like to say to the listeners if you woke up today, that means that your your mission in life is not done.

So keep pushing through 15 minutes at a time.

SPEAKER_01: I will not fear the storm, my whole will decide.

I won't put faith, not my sight, I won't fear a sign, rising higher every day.

Now left behind the saga grace and inspiration on my mind.