Florida Prosecutor Turned Softball Coach and Now Published Author: The Evolution of Dan Romanello

The podcast titled by the inspiring stories of ordinary people to the opportunity of the ordinary world.

And welcome to the podcast.

My name is Kevin Lowe, host of the Lowdown with Kevin Rowe, and well, welcome to the show.

This is episode 107, one of these Wednesday episodes around here, where I'm joined in the studio by a guest.

Today's guest is Dan Romanello.

Dan is a former Florida prosecutor and civil trial lawyer.

But what brought us together is what he's been doing in life lately, and that is writing a book.

His book is called Paperboy.

And we're gonna get to explore all about Dan's story, about how he worked in the newspaper industry before going to law school at the University of Florida, about how he then worked in the state attorney's office before then going on to serve in a private practice law firm for 20 years.

All of this was then dropped off by him totally switching gears and becoming a college softball coach for his daughter's softball team.

This would then, of course, lead into where he is today, which is back to what I started with as uh the author of Paperboy.

Dan describes his book, Paperboy, as equal parts of Rags the Rich's story and a thought-provoking narrative on contemporary society.

This includes a critical look at our politics, our current social issues, and the newspaper industry, and it trying to stay relevant in an electronic and social media-driven society.

Dan is a really awesome guy with an awesome story that I really hope you enjoy, and I can't wait to introduce him to you.

Now, at the time that me and Dan recorded today's interview, his book was not yet published.

But at the time of this episode's release, it is out and ready for you to purchase.

Please be sure to support today's guest and benefit yourself by giving you something new to read or by checking out today's show notes where you can find the link to get your copy of Paperboy.

I would like to ask that if you are enjoying the podcast, loving the podcast, or can't live without the podcast, that you would consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify wherever you are listening to this podcast.

It doesn't help for the show to be discovered by you the first time.

Well, that's the way we grow around.

Anyways, I want to introduce you today to the guest of the hour for Dan Romanella.

Enjoy today's episode.

SPEAKER_01: I grew up in a small working class town in Connecticut.

My parents were, my father was a mailman, my mother was a nurse, and I was actually the first person in my family to graduate from college.

So as I was going through high school, I mostly learned by osmosis.

I wasn't the greatest student in the world.

I just kind of showed up and somehow managed to be a solid B student.

As I was getting ready to graduate, I really didn't have a plan.

And my mother wanted me to be a plumber.

And I do not, I can't fix or build anything.

I really have a limited skill set.

But as far as college goes, I had a friend who was going to a small New England college, and he said, Why don't you come?

And I said, Okay, well, that sounds like a plan.

So at the 11th hour, I applied and I got into school.

And kind of a strange thing happened when I got there.

For the first time, I actually kind of started taking things serious.

I made this plan where I was going to spend about three or four nights a week in the library studying, taking school serious, and then the rest of the time having fun.

So that ended up working well.

I all of a sudden started getting good grades.

And about halfway through, I earned a scholarship.

And then I got an internship my last year at IBM, which at the time was probably the most prestigious internship at the school.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And it not only got me into a great company, it paid a tremendous amount of money.

Yes.

And so here I am, you know, I used to first couple of years I paid to go to school.

Yes.

And the last couple of years, they're paying me to go to school and they're paying me to do an internship.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: So that worked out pretty well.

And uh I graduated, still didn't have a plan, and uh wanted to move to Florida.

So I packed up my old Dotson 210 with no air conditioning, by the way.

SPEAKER_04: Of course.

SPEAKER_01: And moved to Florida.

And uh I settled in the Tampa Bay area and kicked around a little bit.

And really the first significant job I got was working at at the time the largest newspaper in Florida.

And so I got into the newspaper business.

And I don't think they really knew what to do with me when I got there.

I I they hired me, but they really didn't have a job for me.

SPEAKER_04: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I'm taking your audience back a little bit.

When I grew up, keep in mind this was the 70s, so there was no internet, no cell phones, five TV stations.

And when I started at the newspaper, same thing.

It was the mid-80s, no internet, no social media.

So the newspaper was was it.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was a big that's where you went to get your news.

And on the business side, if you wanted to advertise, you advertised it pretty much in the newspaper.

Yeah.

I mean, there were some other options, but people were literally beating down the door to advertise at the newspaper.

So I had a marketing degree.

I talked to them a little bit about writing.

They said, no, no, we have writers for that.

We we want you in the marketing and advertising department.

So I said, okay.

And they handed me this booklet called Advertising Standards.

SPEAKER_04: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: And there, if you wanted to advertise back then, this was literally the twilight of the newspaper golden years.

Yes.

If you wanted to advertise, you had to conform to all of these, I want to say, very idiosyncratic rules.

Like, for example, everything had to be vertical, no sideways, no upside down, no 900 numbers.

And so I was sort of like the advertising police for a while.

And like they would say to me, Well, we have this hearing aid company, and we think they're we think they're sort of, you know, being a little sketchy with their pricing.

So we want you to go in there and act like you're buying your grandfather hearing aid and see if you know they're gonna stick to the advertised price.

That was the kind of stuff they had me doing, you know, and and uh it was just a different time.

SPEAKER_00: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I did that kind of stuff.

Then they said, well, you know, our biggest competition was the yellow pages.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: We really would like to get some of that money.

Companies were paying a lot of money to be in the yellow pages, yeah.

And so I came up with this idea to have, and again, people aren't going to believe this, but to have a TV guide.

We had to call it something else, obviously, but it was we called it the TV dial.

And so people would pull this insert out of the paper and keep it on their coffee table to see what was on television.

Yes.

And it was filled with all kinds of the typical ads that would be in the yellow pages, trades, locksmiths, whatever.

And so, you know, that kind of got me a little bit of notoriety there.

And they liked me.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And and I, you know, my parents who were thrilled that I, my family, that I that I went to college, and now I had a job in a newspaper, and there were, they were like, this is great.

You'll you'll be there the rest of your career.

unknown: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: You know, they were they were thrilled.

So I was there for a few years, and then I got approached by someone in the paper industry that was supplying the newsprint to the news to the newspaper.

And this was one of those total integrated paper companies.

They had the Timberlin, they had the paper mills, the converting factories, and they were starting another division, and they wanted salespeople to start selling this paper.

Uh, again, we're pre even pre-desktop computers.

So I'm taking you back again.

SPEAKER_04: Of course.

SPEAKER_01: If you worked in a big Fortune 500 company, you typically came in in the morning and there was a big, giant, fanfolded, you know, stack of papers with reports and information on it that you needed for the day, and that's what you looked at.

So they started this division that would supply the paper into these data centers that were literally the size of football fields, and they just ran paper through them all night and put the information on everybody's desks in the morning, and that's that's the information that they worked off of.

So they hired mostly veteran salesmen in the paper industry, but this guy hired me and one other guy.

He took a little heat for it because we were in our mid-20s, and this was really high-level selling.

They didn't want us just going into purchasing.

We were we were approaching like the chief technology officers, the data center managers, a lot of relationship selling.

And the job paid like three times what I was making at the newspaper.

So, you know, they gave me a car, they gave me a big expense account.

So here I am in my mid-20s, kind of getting into my later 20s.

I'm making all this money.

My parents taught me two things.

One was to work hard and the other was to save.

And that's what I was doing.

I was saving money.

I really couldn't spend any money because I worked all week, I entertained clients on the weekends, and the company paid those bills.

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: So I had all this money, and I started thinking, they started talking about now.

We're getting close to the 90s.

They're talking about the paperless society.

Now they're gonna get rid of paper.

Well, what am I gonna do?

I sell paper by the trunkloads.

Exactly.

Right?

Exactly.

So I said, well, again, I kind of took inventory of my skill set.

Again, I can't fix or build anything.

I'm terrible at math.

I'm good at reading and writing.

Well, law school, right?

Yes.

That's that's where people that can read, that's where people that can read and write go.

So it it'd been a it'd been a minute since I've been in school.

So I took a course, I took an LSAT refresher course, which was the admissions test for law school.

And I guess between that and the limited skill set I had in reading and writing, I I I scored high on that.

And of course, I had my good grades from school.

So now where do I go to law school?

Right.

I'm I'm six, seven years older than your typical recent college graduate, and I wanted to get done quick.

I didn't want to spend a lot of money, and I wanted to get, you know, my career going.

So I applied to a couple of schools, University of Florida being one of them, which was incredibly a good deal compared to private schools.

Yes.

So I got admitted there, I went there, did well, but I was on a fast track.

You know, I wanted to get graduate and move on.

I've always been a little bit of a kid at heart.

Okay.

So I've always been a little bit immature.

So I fit right in with those kids that were six to seven years younger than me.

You know, no one even knew I was older.

I mean, they they probably thought I was younger because of my maturity level.

But anyway, I did that, and then, you know, I started looking around, and I kind of always tried to walk around with my eyes wide open.

Okay.

You know, and that's how I got that other opportunity, just by meeting somebody, you know, in a in a related industry back in my newspaper days.

So everybody was obsessed with writing on the law review, getting the big white shoe firm internships, and then taking the partner path, you know, five to seven years of toiling as an associate.

Well, I didn't have the patience or the time for that.

Yes.

So again, I kind of took inventory and I said, Well, what else am I good at?

Well, I can talk to people and I can argue.

So why don't I become a trial lawyer?

Well, if you know anything about or you look into it, the only places that are going to let you into the courtroom anytime after you graduate are the state attorney's office and the public defender's office.

So I sort of targeted, you know, being becoming a prosecutor and and go into the uh the state attorney's office.

So I kind of got myself on a fast track.

I graduated in two and a half years, and the one summer in between my second and third year, excuse me, yeah, two and a half years.

So I did have a second summer.

I went to summer school and I went to the state attorney's office in Ocala.

If you're familiar with Florida, that's uh in the middle of the state, right off I-75, big distribution center, and I worked there.

So when I graduated, I applied to all not all, but a lot of the big city law school or big city state attorney's offices.

Miami, Tampa, St.

Petersburg, where I was from.

I got two of the three offers.

Miami wanted to hire me.

Janet Reno had just been appointed, she was the estate attorney there, had just been appointed attorney general, I think by President Clinton at the time.

And her chief assistant became the estate attorney, and we hit it off.

She liked me.

The problem with that job was number one, I don't speak Spanish, and I saw a problem with that.

And then when she told me my salary and that I would have to pay for my own parking, I thought to myself, the parking fee is about to spend to rent an apartment.

So that's a problem, right?

So I didn't end up in Miami.

Tampa didn't offer me a job, St.

Petersburg did, but they wanted me to go to Pasco County, which I looked into that a little bit, and the feedback I was getting from some of the people in the office was that was sort of like Siberia when you get sent up there.

Back in those days, they called it the uh the land of newlyweds and nearly dead.

And so I said, I don't know.

It's a great place now.

It's it's growing, it's booming, but you know, this is uh this is the early 90s.

Yes.

So I ended up in Ocala, and um, they hired me.

And Ocala's an interesting place.

First thing is they I didn't know this when they hired me, but you have to live in the circuit.

And the circuit was Ocala and a number of small counties around there.

And it really wasn't where I wanted to live.

I was commuting from Gainesville, and they said, you know, you really need to, you know, move into the circuit.

I didn't really like Ocala, so I moved to a small county, Citrus County, where I had family.

And not long after I started working in Ocala, Citrus County opened up.

So I said, I'll go there.

And so I spent most of my career as a prosecutor in Citrus County, which was just absolutely great.

It was sort of like um Mayberry RFD.

SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01: But I was in the state attorney, I mean it was very small, there were two judges, and you pretty much did everything.

Yes.

I mean, uh, you know, the the first day you're in the, you know, even even in O'Cala, you're they they put you in county court with a hundred files, and the thing you learn how to do is you got to be able to talk on your and think on your feet because a hundred things are being thrown at you.

And the judge, judges typically aren't patient, they want to move their dockets, and so you just learn.

I mean, it was a tremendous opportunity that fast tracked me into acquiring that skill set in a number of years that would have taken you know ten years, yeah, if I had gone a more traditional route.

So that's what I did.

And um, you know, that was where I really learned how to become a trial lawyer.

SPEAKER_02: Wow, wow, wow.

That's phenomenal.

So why why don't you feel like more law students take the route that you did?

SPEAKER_01: I think some people do.

I just think it sort of goes, remember the firm, the movie The Firm came out back when I was in law school.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: And so that was just everybody's dream.

Yes.

Go to the big firm, get the big starting salary, and toil and toil and toil.

You know, bill 60 hours a week.

If you know anything about the law, you're not there 60 hours a week to bill 60.

You're there a lot longer than that.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: Because you can't bill every minute you're in the office, no matter how good you are.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I just didn't want to do that.

I I it maybe it was a little bit of having some real life experience, I don't know.

But I just sort of figured that out.

And I I also realized, which turned out to be true, that there's not a lot of people that can that can be a trial lawyer.

It's it's yes, there's a very, very small percentage of people that can do that kind of work.

And so I that was another thing.

I'm like, I can do this.

So I'm going to get good at this and use this skill set to have a path to success.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Now that's a now now explain to me a little bit how it works.

Because I think of in in my head, I think of, you know, every attorney has to go to court.

But what do you mean when you specifically talk about a trial lawyer?

SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a lot of people talk about being trial lawyers.

A trial lawyer, a true trial lawyer is someone that tries cases, jury trials.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: They go to okay, so there's a dispute and two people can't work it out, and so they, you know, they they go to court and a jury listens to the case and they make a decision.

And that could be, you know, there's basically two uh two two courts.

Uh there's criminal, which is, you know, where the state attorneys, you know, their office prosecutes crimes that come into their their jurisdiction.

And then there's the civil side, which is any other dispute between two private parties.

And a lot of people do transactional law, they write wills, they do you know, bankruptcies in front of a judge, no juries, family law, at least in Florida, is in front of a judge, no juries.

But you would be surprised, the vast majority of lawyers don't go to court.

Yeah, they work out of the office.

There, there's just probably 95% of lawyers have never tried a case, maybe more.

Yeah, that's that's my best guess.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's interesting.

Very so I'm I'm curious.

I mean, I imagine you have to be a certain type of person to enjoy being a trial lawyer where you're up on the show, you're not just behind a desk.

And so what what drew you to it and and kept you there?

SPEAKER_01: Well, first off, it was starting out in the state attorney's office.

I knew that I could learn.

They they would give me the opportunity to go in there and learn.

And you know, when you go in there, the stakes are low.

You're in county court.

I mean, I I was actually trying cases.

Remember, I said I graduated early.

Yes.

Well, I hadn't yet passed the bar, but they have this program called a certified legal intern.

It's kind of like having a learner's permit to drop it.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: I was trying cases while my classmates were finishing their last semester of law school.

SPEAKER_00: They just let me go in there and try cases.

SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, I mean, I wasn't trying capital to murder cases.

I was, you know, I was trying driving with license suspended, someone wrote a worthless check, you know, stuff like that.

But it was still the same thing.

You got to pick a jury, you got to make an opening statement, you got to present witnesses, you got to cross-examine witnesses, you got to make a closing argument.

I mean, that's what you got to do.

No matter what case you're you're talking about, those are the steps.

So it was just a tremendous opportunity.

And I loved it there.

I loved being in the courtroom.

And the one thing that's in my mind that was so different between criminal and civil, besides the money.

You know, you don't make much money in criminal.

You got to go to civil to make money.

But criminal court was really just about some event that happened in a relatively short period of time.

I wasn't trying complex white-collar crime cases or anything like that.

So it was fun.

It didn't take a whole lot of preparation time.

You weren't reading volumes and volumes of records.

It was, okay, this happened.

Who were the witnesses?

Who investigated?

And so it was the fun part to me was always being in the courtroom.

Yes.

It was all the preparation stuff that that could get kind of dry and and you know, kind of wearing on you.

But just being in there, once all the work was done and you got into the courtroom and the jury was there, and the opposing party and the judge.

Yes.

And it was game on.

When when you become an older person, if you're if you're an athlete or you were in whatever competitions you were in, you know, younger, uh, you know, whatever it would be, this is this is the last place you can really go and compete like that.

There's a set of rules, and there's two sides, and there's going to be a winner and there's no one.

SPEAKER_02: That's that's too cool to go.

So now, did you spend then your entire career with the state attorney's office?

SPEAKER_01: No, no.

I had to go make some money.

So I wanted to get back to the Tampa Bay area, and so I was married, and my wife had an opportunity to transfer.

She she was before we had kids, she worked uh in uh home health or uh the medical field, and she was managing a chain of home health agencies.

So she was traveling all over the state of Florida, but she got a job with a hospital in the Tampa Bay area, so that was my excuse to leave and move back to where I was originally from.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: So I got a job in a civil firm that had gone through some changes.

They, when I when they hired me, they had gone from, I think, six offices down to two.

There's a lot of consolidation in just yeah, for whatever reason, firms break up, people come and go.

And so this firm was going through a transition, and they hired some associates, and I was one of them.

They put me in St.

Petersburg where I wanted to be.

And not too long after that, those two offices split up.

Tampa went their way and St.

Petersburg went their way.

So I had to make a decision what I was gonna do.

And the partner in St.

Petersburg had already lost two lawyers.

She said to me, If you stick with me, then you know I will make it worth your while.

And I stayed with her, and within two years, she made me a partner.

And so, you know, we worked together, took on another partner some years later, but we worked together for about 20 years, and uh, you know, it was a good run.

So that's the majority of my time was spent doing you know civil work.

I did all the uh the trial work, all the litigation, and I can tell you how that ended.

But I mean, you know, I I so here here's what happened.

So we were primarily concentrated in the area, but the the practice of law was changing.

And I think if I had to say what caused those changes, for better or for worse, and if you wanted to know my opinion, I would say probably for the worse, was the proliferation of law schools and lawyer advertising.

And I think when I went to law school, there were five in the state of Florida, and I looked recently, I think there's 12 now.

So, you know, the state was pumping out a lot more lawyers, there was a lot of advertising, and so you really had to start expanding your geographic area to get work.

And so the next thing I know, I'm traveling all over the state litigating cases, and it was uh Father's Day, and my birthday's around that that time, and on this particular Father's Day, it was my birthday.

And I was in Orlando getting ready to start a trial at a hotel, preparing my my client and some witnesses.

And when I was done, hadn't seen my family, I just thought to myself, what am I doing?

You know, what what am I doing?

I'm in a hotel on my birthday and Father's Day.

I'm not seeing my family.

So I finished that trial that took about a week, and I came back to the office and I sat down with my partners and I said, uh, let's talk about an exit strategy.

And wouldn't you know?

They had an exit, they had some ideas of their own.

SPEAKER_00: And guess what?

SPEAKER_01: I wasn't involved in their future place.

Wow.

Okay.

So yeah, so let me give you a little background there.

So I have two kids.

Neither of them have any interest whatsoever in being lawyers.

My two partners have seven kids between them.

And right now, I think five of them are lawyers.

The sixth one's in law school, and the other one has aspirations to be a pro football player.

And if that doesn't work out, he'll probably become a lawyer.

So, you know, they had seven lawyers between all their kids, and so they saw the future as more of the two of them and their kids, or some or most of their kids, and that didn't include me.

So that was fine.

I I was ready to go, they were ready to have me leave, and so we worked out a two-year plan, and I finished out my two years and I retired at age 56.

Just walked away.

And it was it was kind of crazy because, first of all, I was there for two years.

I really didn't tell anybody, but the firm changed their name.

They took my name off the letterhead because I was no longer a partner, which is required under the ethics rules.

So people started saying, I thought you left the firm.

You're not on the letterhead anymore.

SPEAKER_00: What are you doing here?

You know?

SPEAKER_01: No, no, I'm still here.

I'm just uh sort of in my um, you know, I'm transitioning to retirement.

You're retiring?

Are you crazy?

Nobody retires at, you know, at this age.

And I said, Well, I am.

So that's what I did.

Uh, you know, going back to what my parents taught me, I was always a saver and I was in a position to do that.

I had saved for my kids' college, and um I just walked away.

SPEAKER_02: Wow.

Well, uh, so when how long ago was that?

SPEAKER_01: I retired at the end of 2017.

SPEAKER_02: So really, really not that long ago.

We're talking like five years, five years.

Five years.

SPEAKER_01: Five years.

SPEAKER_02: Wow.

I mean what a what a big change.

I mean, what what were your plans after?

Did you were you thinking for a while that maybe you would go to a different firm or were you at that point just done with law altogether?

SPEAKER_01: The second thing.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, done done with law.

Okay, okay, I gotcha.

So, so what did life do for you after that?

Retiring at 56?

SPEAKER_01: Well, I gotta be honest, I didn't have like the uh you know, the the playbook locked in the safe that I could go look up what was next.

You know, I I I I my original plan was to at the end of 2017, my daughter was a student athlete.

She had just started her first year of college.

I was just gonna take a breath.

You know, that was my plan.

I was gonna take a breath and just figure out what was next.

Well, before I could even, this was now the the end of the summer of 2017.

Okay.

My daughter played uh college softball.

So I had been in that world for many, many years.

In fact, my daughter was recruited.

This is just crazy when you think about it.

But the the the college recruiting had gotten to the point where she was recruited in middle school and committed to play softball at the University of Florida in eighth grade.

unknown: What?

SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I mean, those they've changed the rules since then, but that's what was going on in the, you know, in the recruiting world at that time.

So I had coached and other people had come up to me and asked me to sort of help them because in those kinds of sports, non-revenue sports with really no professional leagues, the whole thing is getting a college scholarship and getting your schooling paid for to play whatever your sport was.

So I got involved with helping people do that.

I was helping people with uh hitting lessons, things like that, just because I like doing it.

Yes.

Well, I got a phone call from someone I didn't know, but a mutual friend had recommended me.

She had just gotten a job at a local college here as the head softball coach and wanted some help.

So I said, sure, I will come and help you coach college softball.

That's that's next.

Okay, I can get it.

It wasn't in the playbook.

I hadn't even gotten to the breather I was going to take and figure out what was next.

And so the next thing I know, I'm coaching college softball.

SPEAKER_02: Wow.

Now, had you had you played sports growing up?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was a baseball player.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: And um, when I had kids, you I I tried to expose my kids to everything.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: But I, of course, was gonna my son's three years older, and you know, they did it all swimming, soccer, karate.

Of course, I was gonna have him, you know, try baseball.

Yes.

And so the next thing I know, you know, he he was the kind of kid that I had to bribe to take him to the candy store.

You know, he wanted he wanted to chase butterflies and uh, you know, in the outfield.

And you know, eventually my my daughter said, Can I come to practice?

And she's a little kid, right?

Yeah, he's picking up the bat, and all of a sudden I'm watching this kid, and I'm like, whoa, you know, I mean, she's better than these boys that are three years older than her.

So, you know, that's she that's how she got into it.

You know, he he played a little bit and you know, moved on to something else.

But from that time, I had started coaching the girls.

And as you know, I sit there and talk to a group of boys, and you know, they're looking around, a fly buzzes by, they're chasing the fly.

I mean, you know, it's the one thing when you talk to a group of young girls, you have 12 sets of eyeballs, laser focused on you listening.

You're listening to everything you're saying.

You know, like, you know what?

I'm gonna stick with coaching girls.

So this is just it's just you know, it's a lot, it's a lot easier, and and quite honestly, it's a lot more fulfilling because you know, they're actually learning something.

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: So uh I did that, and um, you know, that brought me it, it's it's like any other thing, Kevin.

It's it's a small world, you know.

Yes, she was playing nationally.

It's it's it's crazy.

The money, and it doesn't matter what sport it is, there's people always willing to take your money for national teams, competitions, you know, you some of these kids in these different sports that I see, they'll have they'll have a fitness coach, they'll have a specialty coach, they'll have an agility coach.

I mean, it's just unbelievable how much money there is now that parents are willing to spend.

I mean, when I was a kid, uh, you know, if I asked my father for money for lessons, you know, what the fuck would have looked at me like I was nuts?

SPEAKER_00: You know, money for money to have someone teach you how to play baseball.

SPEAKER_02: That's hysterical.

That's so, so when you were coaching, when you when you got into now this this new career of of coaching, you know, girls' softball in college, so was was that your your daughter's team that you were?

SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no.

She was she was at Florida, which is that's division one.

You know, those are the games that you know you see on television and the teams make it to the women's college world series.

I was coaching a division two local school here.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: It was 10 minutes from my office.

I actually started because uh it's a spring sport, but they have a fall non-championship season where they play exhibition and they work out and stuff.

So I was actually doing that the last several months that I was uh finishing up with the firm.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: And I did that for a few years, and then the pandemic hit.

Yes.

And I I remember this.

We had one of the one of our players came back for a fifth year.

She had a redshirt, a medical redshirt year, so she was allowed to play a fifth year.

Okay.

She came back primarily because she wanted to play softball.

And when all of that started in March of 2020, we were getting ready for a road trip and we were practicing.

And the last meeting we had before we went to the field was we're still gonna play.

As of right now, we're following the CDC guidelines.

They remember how that stuff was changing every minute.

SPEAKER_02: Yep.

SPEAKER_01: So we're able to play.

Then we get a call.

Okay, you're able to play, let your parents know they can come, but there's gonna be no other spectators.

Then it changed to no parents, players only.

And then one of the players that was getting treatment came late and she had already gotten word that everything was being shut down.

And I remember, and this was not the way we wanted to do it.

The coaches wanted to tell the team.

Well, she came and started telling all the players.

And I remember the girl that came back for her fifth year, her legs buckled.

She just fell to the ground and started crying.

And, you know, it was just, it was just a, you know, it was it was a everybody knows, everybody has their own, yeah, you know, their own story, what happened.

But that was it.

I was not allowed back onto that campus, no one was, until the following uh fall.

So, you know, it was just it was just difficult.

And then when we went back, there was all kinds of restrictions.

We were wearing masks outside in the heat.

You know, there were all kinds of restrictions on us.

And then the conference that we were in was going to play a limited schedule.

All fall sports were canceled, and then the spring sports were going to play.

The fall sports were gonna play a limited season.

Both both everybody was gonna play a limited season, and our school opted out.

And so I just said, you know, this is not my career.

I was really just here to help.

We're now gonna play, go almost two years without playing.

So I finished out that season, which really just we just kind of tried to keep everybody together.

You know, we practiced, we played intersquad games, but that was it.

It was a tough time.

It was a tough time.

I I felt so bad for these, you know, you just imagine you only have four years of college.

And if you're a student athlete, you know, the the college experience, there's some a lot of sacrifice to play a sport.

And these women have been playing their whole lives, and they, you know, they they weren't able to play.

Yeah.

So I at the end of the season, I reflected back and said, okay, am I gonna keep doing this?

And I said, uh, no, I'm not gonna do this.

And so I had started writing my book before that.

Yes.

And so that just was the next thing I did.

No, no major plan.

Again, I didn't have the you know, the the master plan somewhere.

I just had always wanted to write a book, and so I just started writing the book.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, okay, okay.

Exciting, exciting.

Now we're it we're getting to the book part, but but before we dive into the book, I mean I just have to say, like, you know, the the whole pandemic and and everything, you're you're so right in the fact that everybody has their own story of how it impacted us all differently.

And, you know, and this is just another one of those scenarios where I look at your story and and I see how like talking about these these girls, these kids are they grow up their whole life playing these sports and get into college and and for most people, college is gonna be the highest level they ever go.

They don't go, you know, to professional level.

And so then the thoughts of that being taken from them, you know, is just devastating.

SPEAKER_01: Right.

I I it was it was just it was terrible.

And you know, they're you know, it was just a bad time.

And I I I to this day I feel sorry for them.

Now, you know, at the higher levels, uh everybody got extra years.

And so, you know, there you could play a a fifth year, and in some cases in football, you actually get got two more years.

So you could play you could play.

I mean, it it just got crazy.

Yes.

You know, I could I could talk about the the transformation of what's going on in college sports all day long, but yeah, it was these are true student athletes.

They were students first and they played a sport and their time was really balanced out where they were clearly students first, but they loved the sport and it was a chance to compete.

And, you know, it's a very, very small percentage that gets to that level.

And um it's you don't do that without working towards it your whole life.

So uh, you know, I I I felt very bad for them.

And when I left, I really left with the class that I had started with.

So I, you know, I I saw them through and um a lot of them left, you know, a lot of them went home, never, never played again.

You know, they were from all over the country.

Some of them just finished school and you know, didn't didn't take an extra year, they just moved on.

But they, you know, they clearly, you know, missed out on their on their four years.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Wow, wow, wow.

Well, well, let's let's shift gears into your book.

And so let's start off by you you giving me an overview of of your book, and then let's dive into so many questions I have about the writing process, where the idea came from.

But but for right now, I'd love for you to give me and my listeners an overview of your book.

SPEAKER_01: Sure.

So I knew I wanted to write a book, I knew it was probably going to be fiction for a number of reasons.

Uh I personally probably read more nonfiction, but one of the things that being a trial lawyer does, uh to just to kind of help explain some insight into my my way of thinking.

Okay.

Say you're a trial lawyer, say you're you're trying uh an industrial accident case where somebody gets badly injured in a in a warehouse or something.

Okay, so there's a dispute, it's going to go to trial.

So what do you have to do?

Well, you have to hire some sort of a human factors expert, you have to hire medical experts, you have to hire a vocational rehabilitation expert, you have to file hire an economist.

So you have to hire all these experts.

Then you have to understand medicine, economics, bokeh, engineering, and you have to become enough of an expert to be able to explain it to a jury, be able to elicit the information you need from your expert, and then you need to be able to go to toe-to-toe with their experts, right?

SPEAKER_04: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: So you learn to become very, very knowledgeable in all of these diverse areas that you really didn't know anything about until that type of case comes into your office.

So I sort of took that approach with publishing.

And I looked into the publishing industry, and I realized right away first of all, fiction's more fun.

I have a wildly vivid imagination, and um I it's not a lot of research, and that just didn't seem like any fun.

But as a practical matter, no one's going to even give you a second thought writing nonfiction.

Unless you have some sort of notoriety on at least, you know, probably a national level, or you have, you know, a huge social media following or some type of people know who you are.

Well, no one knows who I am.

So, you know, as a practical matter, fiction was the route I had to go.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: So I am a big fan of Florida, uh what I call Florida fiction or Florida-based fiction.

Writers like uh John McDonald, Charles Willeford, even Lawrence Sanders had a had a series about a uh this kind of a eccentric detective in Palm Beach, you know, a lot of Palm Beach setting stuff.

And I like that.

I like the Florida-based, you know, we have such an interesting and diverse state here.

And so I wanted to kind of do that, but I also came across another writer by the name of Tim Dorsey, who has a uh a series with a protagonist who uh I mean, I guess I would describe this guy as if this is even this crazy description, but I guess the best way to describe this guy is a lovable, psychotic vigilante.

He just goes around, he just goes around, you know, just meeting out his own justice.

Yes.

But the guy, the character, is a he has a deep, deep rooted knowledge of Florida history.

So when you read any of these writers, you're you're first and foremost, it's entertainment, right?

That's why you're reading fiction.

Yes.

I like to think of fiction is to a reader what watching a Netflix series is to you know somebody that tunes in.

It's it's you can watch, you can binge watch it and go through it real quick, or you can watch it in segments, but you're at the end of a day, you you're just you just want to, you know, you want to chill and you want to just kind of escape and just relax and and be entertained.

Yes.

But because of that angle, with you know, I'd read this, these, I'd read Tim Dorsey and I go, wow, I really learned a lot about Florida history.

Interesting, some of its, you know, minutiae, but you know, stuff about everything about the history of spring break to just all these different things.

And I thought to myself, okay, I'm gonna write a fiction, but I want to have an angle.

So I decided to create a set of characters that I like to think are endearing and enduring, because this is gonna be a series.

My protagonist is really a the kind of man that I think most men would want to be and most women would want to be with.

And so the world is seen through his eyes, but yet he's surrounded by chaos.

You know what I mean?

Okay, you know, he runs into a lot of the things we run into.

He grew up poor, he was befriended by a reclusive widow, and uh she changes his life, and he comes to Florida and he's very, very successful, and so he starts meeting a lot of people that want to meet him because of his success.

And so he starts to question some of the things going on, you know, some of the different movements going on, and he's he really wants to try to make a difference in the world, but he keeps getting sidetracked by you know all these different adventures that he runs into.

And it's it's you know, again, first and foremost, the book is written to entertain.

And there's, you know, there's corruption, there's debauchery, there's murder, uh, there's all that stuff.

But if a reader reads the book and just says, I was highly entertained and that was great and I enjoyed it, that's fine.

But if someone reads it and says, you know, I really like the way this character dealt with these issues, he's very apolitical.

There's no labels, there's no teams.

It's just simply what makes sense, what doesn't make sense.

And so there is that type of an aspect to it with a component of extrapolation.

I think readers might, you know, some readers might look at the book and say, well, that that trend kind of looks familiar.

I sort of see that in society.

Wow, it went to that extreme.

That could happen.

So if readers walk away, you know, and they think about, well, you know, I looked at this differently.

I sort of was on this team and I sort of viewed these issues this way, and I never really thought of it that way, that's fine.

But if they just say, wow, that was highly entertaining and uh, you know, that's it, hopefully they'll say it's highly entertaining, you know, that's fine too.

It's it's not overly serious, but there certainly are messages in the in the book if you choose to want to think about the messages.

If you don't, it's not heavy.

You know, like I said, it's it's it's entertaining fiction, but I didn't want it to just be bubblegum fiction.

I wanted there to be a little bit of a meaning to it.

And so in this particular book, you'll see he deals with the newspaper industry, he deals with the state of politics here in Florida and what could happen.

He sort of sees how social media is having an adverse effect on some of the things that uh, you know, that he's trying to do.

So that's really what I wanted to do.

And then I've already started writing the second book.

There's different issues he deals with in that one, and and so that's that's kind of what how the book is laid out.

SPEAKER_02: Wow.

So how long did it actually take you to write the book?

SPEAKER_01: Not that long, believe it or not.

You know, it in in in retrospect, Kevin, writing the book was the easy part.

SPEAKER_02: Really?

Really?

SPEAKER_01: I started writing the book in the spring of 21, and I was done by the middle to the end of the fall of that year, same year.

But what I've learned, and this goes back to you know, going to school on the publishing industry, oh wow, is unless, again, it kind of goes back to the same thing, even with fiction, unless you have some sort of notoriety or you're established or you have a big social media following with very, very limited exceptions, the publishing industry is closed.

It's very, very difficult for a newcomer to break in.

The good news is that technology has made it very, very easy to you know, write a book and get it published through other non-traditional channels.

And so I had to learn all that stuff and figure that out.

And that's what I've been basically doing since the end of uh the fall of last year.

You know, I I hired a wonderful, wonderful editor.

She really not only helped me get the book edited, but walked me through the whole process.

There's just a really lot to it.

SPEAKER_00: You know, it just if I you know, I I thought I wrote a pretty good book.

And then then I then I had it edited in proof rate.

I was like, you know what?

The real hero here is the editor, not the writer.

SPEAKER_02: That's so funny.

Because I feel like that's the same thing that everyone says who who I interview, who's who has a book, they all give the props to the editor.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, she was she was a godsend to me.

And um I'm proud of what I did, and I I it wouldn't be the same without her.

So I I appreciate that.

And, you know, like I said, she not only helped me edit the book and lay it out, but there's just a lot to getting a book done and um getting it out there, and uh, you know, but the good news is, you know, 20 years ago, it would have been hard to even get your book out there unless you were with one of the big traditional publishing houses.

And um, you know, I've read a lot about successful authors that go this route and they become they become successful and they stay.

And and one of the reasons that they do it is, I mean, I got my book out there from the time I first pressed the keyboard to in a little bit about a year and a half.

And like I said, there's there's a component of extrapolation, which is sort of predicting things that could happen in the future based on present trends.

And and a few of those things already happened.

So I'm like, if this if it took two years or three years to get this book out, it wouldn't be as interesting, and people would be like, well, that already happened.

You know, I mean so you know, what uh from what I've learned, a lot of people like the fact that they can write a book and get it out there, and you know, they don't have to go through the just from what I understand about the publishing industry.

Sometimes when your book's done, it'll even take a year before they release it.

And you know, you just don't have you have a lot more flexibility when you're when you're more of your own boss.

SPEAKER_02: So is that so is that what they call like you self-published the book?

SPEAKER_01: Well, I started a publishing company.

So Oh, okay, okay.

Yeah, I the book is published by Cenitas Publishing, which is a company I started, and I don't know where that's gonna go, but I've I've already talked to a friend who wants to write a book, and you know, I I would let him or I would have him publish through my company.

And so I don't know where that's gonna go, but I I did that.

And you know, so we'll see.

Again, don't have that master playbook.

I'm just kind of flying by the seat of my pants.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Well, you well, you know what?

I mean, you it you know what?

I I feel like if if you do have that master playbook, chances are life's gonna change.

So so so I'm I'm a big person who I'm all about it's good to have goals, it's good to have plans, but sometimes you need to forget about those and just focus on where life takes you.

Because sometimes I feel like if you focus too much on those plans that you set so far out, it kind of just sets you up for disappointment.

So I I agree.

SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, one of the things that I was I always felt like I had to keep pushing forward, pushing forward.

And when I left the practice of law, I just decided, okay, I'm just gonna try different things.

And I I've got some independence now and I love it.

I I wouldn't trade it for the world.

You know, I'm I just it just I get up every day.

I I remember this too.

So I remember I had this two-year period.

I had all these naysayers.

Oh, you're gonna be bored, you're gonna be back to practicing law in six months.

What are you gonna do all day?

I am completely honest when I say I don't have I haven't had five minutes where I've been bored.

I mean there's always something going on.

And I and I love it.

You know, I just I love the independence, and um, I wouldn't trade it for the world.

SPEAKER_02: Well, I absolutely love it.

Love it.

Where can we find your book?

I know it's just come out on August 1st, so so it is out and ready for us to read.

Where can we find this this book at?

SPEAKER_01: So you can go to my website, authordanromanello.com, and there is information about me and the book, and you can click on to Amazon or the Barnes and Noble icon and you can pre-order the book.

It's going to eventually be available at pretty much every retailer worldwide.

I know it's not right now on Target or Walmart, but it's coming.

The best way to do it if you wanted to order the book now is you can order the e-reader from Amazon, or you can order the paperback or the e-reader from Barnes Noble.

For some reason, you can't pre-order paperbacks on Amazon.

I'm not sure why, but Books a Million has it, and pretty much other places do too.

But the easiest way is to go to the website, go onto the book tab, and then just click onto either Amazon or Barnes and Noble, and you'll go right to my page.

SPEAKER_02: Well, fantastic, fantastic.

Well, Dan, such a pleasure to talk with you, to hear your story of just, you know, kind of this evolution and and such an awesome story.

I'm so thankful that that you've shared it with us.

And now, now just kind of this new chapter of life, now as a published author.

And uh so Dan, um sincerely thank you for for taking the time to be on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: Kevin, thank you so much.

It was it was all my pleasure.

SPEAKER_02: Wonderful, wonderful.

Well, well, for you listening today, I want to thank you for joining me for another just amazing guest here on the show.

And uh please be sure to check out the episode show notes.

I will be sure that links are left so that you can have easy access to Dan's website to purchasing his book and uh support with the awesome guy by uh getting your copy of his book and uh until next week.

I hope today's episode inspired you, motivated you, or excited you to get out of an enjoy life for no matter what obstacles make starting to work.