Healing from Trauma: Battling PTSD with Apache Gunship Pilot Brian Slade

My first engagement, they blasted us, and we're gonna crash.

And then we're we're slicing down through the air, and then all of a sudden we start flying out of it.

And I'm like, wait, we're not gonna die.

Hey, yeah.

Hey, things are looking up, you know.

SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

I'm your host, Kevin Lowe, and I'm excited to welcome you inside.

This is the kind of place where your glass will never be anything other than half full because we choose to focus on the positive side of life.

Now, this doesn't mean that we shy away from the real talk.

No, not a fair.

Matter of fact, we explore all aspects of life.

From the good, the bad, and the ugly.

But all of that is done with one purpose.

One purpose to inspire you to never give up on life, even when it may seem like life has given up on you.

Now I get it.

Life is hard.

But starting today, you've got grit, grace, and inspiration.

What's going on, and how are you today?

Welcome to episode 161 here on Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

I'm of course your host, Kevin Lowe, and uh, well, first and foremost, welcome back to the podcast.

In case you are new here, well, welcome.

I'm thrilled to have you joining me today on my little corner of the podcasting universe.

Today is a Tuesday episode, and that means it's an interview.

Every Tuesday I bring you an interview with some absolutely incredible people, and then I back that up with a Friday solo episode where I give you a little deeper topic to think about.

Now, today we are getting a real treat because we are joined in the studio by Brian Slade.

Now, Brian is the author of a book called Cleared Hot.

But what we're talking about today is not just about his book, but about his journey.

His mission in life and work.

In talking to Brian, I've come to understand that in life we all have a mission.

And that mission never ends.

It just changes as we go through life.

Now Brian slayed, he had many missions.

The kind of missions that most of us will never experience in our life.

Because while Brian served in the military flying Apache helicopters in combat.

But after his chapter of life that had him in the military, well, he would begin a new chapter.

A new mission.

And that is what brought him to write the book Cleared Hot.

Because he realized that he could use his experience of learning to fly a helicopter, of flying a helicopter in combat to help somebody just like you who's going through some stuff in life.

And well, that's what just makes Ryan Slade so freaking awesome.

Today's interview is high energy with big takeaways that I cannot wait for us to dive into.

If you're loving today's episode, please be sure to share it with a friend who you think could benefit from this episode.

Because, well, that's how we spread the news about this podcast is being sure that the people who need to hear it hear it.

And the way that happens is by you sharing it with them.

So please feel free to share today's episode with them.

And hey, first and foremost though, I hope that you enjoy it.

I hope that you love it, and I hope that you can find something said that can truly impact your life.

With all of that said, it's my pleasure to introduce you to Brian Slay.

SPEAKER_02: I'm the eldest of eight.

I like to say eldest because it sounds more official, but really they're probably all a little bit more mature than me.

But growing up, my dad was a teacher, so you know you didn't trip on the way to the dinner table, or else you're not getting anything.

So, you know, we grew up in Idaho, farm boy, you know, worked on farms.

I ended up moving out of my home at 15 just not because I was super rebellious or anything.

I just had different goals than my parents had for me, and we agreed that maybe I was time for me to be on my own.

And so I moved out at 15.

I still did high school, I still played sports, I still had finished that and then went and ended up over at Utah State, played a little football there.

Actually, I went to Snow College, it's a community college for a little bit, then to Utah State.

And that's where I kind of you know said, hey, I want to join the military, you know.

And so I enlisted in the military because, you know, coming from a family of eight kids with a teacher's salary, as you can imagine, there wasn't a lot of extra funds for college.

I did have some football scholarship offers, but prior to going to college, I actually did a two-year church mission in Brazil.

And when I came back from that, my scholarship offers were on a prove-it basis, right?

So I had to do a year to say, Hey, are you still an athlete?

Yes.

You know, you've been gone for two years eating beans and rice.

What's your 40 time?

Yes.

So, you know, I that was kind of my situation.

So I was kind of looking for ways to pay for that first year of school, first couple years, maybe even if it didn't work out.

And a friend of mine was in the Navy and she's like, hey, they got these ROTC programs.

So I looked into that.

I was like, cool, that's what I'm gonna do.

And then uh the recruiter said, Well, you can do a simultaneous membership program, which means you enlist and actually go through the enlisted boot camp, and you're doing both at the same time.

And so I opted to do that.

And in the midst of that, you know, long story short, RTC went away, came back anyway, it all worked out.

But at one point, they had an incentive riot for the, you know, guys that were already enlisted, and it was in a helicopter, a black hawk.

And I'd never ridden in a helicopter before.

I always thought they were kind of cool, but you know, I'm not completely Jones in about them yet.

Sit in that thing, and the pilot did what I would do, and he tried to scare everybody and make them puke.

And I loved it.

I loved it.

I was like, this is amazing.

I didn't know helicopters could do this.

He was like diving off cliffs and you know, banking it over and making us feel up, you know, floating the seats.

And I was like, it's like a roller coaster ride.

You do this for a job?

Are you kidding me?

You know, so that that's when I said I'm gonna do this, you know, and then I ended up uh attaching to the Apache unit there in Utah as a guard unit, and went to flight school, came back, and uh then I started the journey of going to multiple wars.

SPEAKER_03: Wow, wow, wow, wow.

Man, so that's just incredible.

So now backing up a little bit though, when when you said in your childhood and said you you basically moved out of home at 15.

Would you mind asking after that?

Were you just living with friends while still in high school?

SPEAKER_02: So there's a book there too.

No, actually, yes.

So I moved into the basement of a friend initially, and I stayed there and I did my best to pay her some rent because that's kind of how I was brought up.

You know, you you're you're responsible for your own stuff, you don't you're not a charity case, right?

So and but he actually ended up uh his his girlfriend got pregnant while we were in high school, and so she came and moved to the basement too, and you can imagine how that goes, right?

So that's that's a third will on steroids, and I'm like, ah, I'm out of this hormone mess.

And and we're friends, I I've talked to her recently, she's in the book, she knows she's in the book, and and she's like, I'm sorry, it was so mean to you.

And I'm like, No, no, we're good, we're good, totally good.

Yes, and and so at that point, I had some friends that were adults, 18, 19 years old.

And so they had an apartment.

So I moved into that apartment and paid my piece of that, and then then they got evicted for things that they probably should have got evicted for.

Um but by proxy, so did I.

And so then I lived in my truck for six months, where you know, so basically I was homeless going to high school.

And but you know, I showered at school and truck stops on the weekend, and uh, I didn't own a lot of stuff, so it wasn't that big of a deal.

Uh except for the winners.

The winners in Idaho are freaking cold.

So there's a lot of blankets and a gear shift in your back, you know, when you're sleeping.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.

Wow.

Well, I mean, just out of my own curiosity, because I mean I I look at this situation and and think to myself, I mean, that's pretty rough.

Did you ever think about just quitting school?

SPEAKER_02: No, I so when I moved out, I knew that that would be where everybody would go.

He's not gonna make it, right?

Yes, yes, he's he's gonna be a dropout, he's gonna be a funky, he's gonna be, he's just, you know, he's not gonna make it.

And so immediately when I moved out, I was like, not only am I gonna move out, but I am gonna continue to play sports like I would as a normal kid.

I'm gonna work a job.

I worked the sporting good counter at Kmart at night.

I'm going to finish school and I'm gonna finish with decent grades.

I'm not gonna, you know, I never was like, oh, I'm gonna get straight A's.

That was never my goal.

I just wanted them, you know, A B's were good, you know.

Later I was like, yeah, Cs and D's get degrees.

What was I thinking?

I hope I, you know, completely worked too hard.

But but no, it was it was kind of a point of pride that I was like, I'm I'm not and my not to mention my dad started and was running the alternative school, right?

So when you drop out, where's your next option?

SPEAKER_04: Yes, my dad.

SPEAKER_02: You know, yes.

So I was like, no, that's and it was never, it never crossed my mind.

I was like, I'm gonna make this happen one way or the other.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay, okay.

Well, well, well, that's also.

I mean, I think that says a lot about you, even as a kid growing up.

I mean, that you had that kind of mindset, you know, about you even then.

I mean, I think that's I think that's pretty remarkable.

SPEAKER_02: Or just dumb.

SPEAKER_03: Or dumb.

Something.

Something.

Something, yeah.

But no, so that's cool.

So so coming back up to to the story you you kind of left off on is you get this taste of of the uh the helicopter experience.

So so you join the army, you said you go through through boot camp and and all of that.

Now, how does it work as far as once you join the army and you said that you you flew in this helicopter and you're like, oh man, this is what I want to do.

Do you get choices like like you know, if you want to go into you know specialty or if you're a general soldier?

Like, how does that kind of work in the army?

SPEAKER_02: Honestly, it's just like anything else.

You got to compete, right?

Okay.

There's a certain and you know, the most sought-after branches, there's I think there's 16 branches, don't quote me on that.

16 branches in the army itself, like you got you know, ordinance, field artillery, infantry, aviation, right?

So the most sought after for years is aviation and infantry.

I think that's still true.

So in order to get selected for that, you need to score fairly high in the ROTC.

And what ROTC does is they rank you on an order of merit list in the nation.

I think there was 4,000 something cadets that were in that order of merit for my year group.

I ended up doing pretty good.

I uh I think I was 20, well, I don't think I was 21st in the nation.

So that allowed me to pick pretty much whatever I wanted.

But then with aviation, you also have to you have to qualify physically, right?

Like you have to there's a pretty stringent physical that you got to get through.

They found some like granulomas in my lung, and uh doesn't necessarily mean anything.

You travel, you get granulomas sometimes, whatever.

So that disqualified me uh initially, and and I and my backup branch, I did medical services because they too have an aviation piece for flying.

And I was like, if I don't make it the first way, I'm gonna find a back way, back door in, right?

Yeah, and and so I rebranched medical services and then a waiver came in for my granuloma, so then I went back to aviation.

So yeah, I I I was gonna make it happen one way or the other, but but yeah, and luckily for me, the army gives you a lot of weight on your physical fitness.

Yeah.

People look at me now, they might not think this, but I used to be pretty good, I mean, really, really good shape.

I could do all kinds of stuff that way.

And then your leadership ability was in a field training exercise, and I did pretty well in those too.

Now I'm in the Air Force currently, their leadership was more great at all GPA and a couple other things, where I probably would not have been 21st in the nation if I'd have been Air Force.

I've probably been way down the list.

But because of the Army put where they put their weight, it actually benefited me and my skill sets.

SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.

Well, well, that's awesome.

So you get into this program.

How was fight school?

Because it's one thing to to ride in the chopper.

I can only imagine the the process of learning to actually fly one of these things.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it's uh it's a lot different than you think.

Like in the movies, you know, you see these guys like banking it over and moving these big, big movements.

You know, a helicopter, they call it the hover button, right?

You you're you have to learn, like when you first start trying to hover that thing and you over control the heck out of it, especially guys.

I'm basically if Minecraft were a real person, that's me, right?

I am completely a square.

I'm solid, but I'm just like this big, you know, manila gorilla guy.

And so like I'm trying to move it, you know, and and really it's your mind flies the helicopter.

It's very minuscule movements, very fine motor skill type things to hover.

And really, people think you're you're teaching or training your hands and feet because you a helicopter has controls on both feet and both hands.

You're moving them all at the same time.

But you they think that you're training those physically, but really it's your brain that's learning how to manipulate that.

And so it is uh it was different than I thought, and it was very challenging at first to where I was like, Well man, am I gonna be able to do this, you know?

And uh, but then it's just like overnight, like you you're like, I can't hover, I can't hover.

You know, you're a drunken sailor swapping all over the place.

I had a screamer, and my instructor was a screamer, which you know makes you calm and serene when you're doing that, right?

So he's just yelling at me the whole time, and I'm like, he was a civilian guy and not a military guy, so I may have yelled back.

I don't know.

Yes, basically, I finally got it, right?

And all of a sudden, it just I can hover.

Hey, what am I doing different?

I don't know, but I can do it.

So I'm just not I'm not gonna question it, you know.

SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, wow, wow, wow.

Now, do you start off on just like normal helicopters before you go to the big bad ones that that we you know see?

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I always tell people it's like a new TV news chopper that you kind of train in.

It's called the TH67 Creek.

Okay, but it's just a white and orange, you know, jet ranger TV chopper.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

Okay, okay, awesome.

Now, how long is training before your say your first mission?

SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, I went through basically nine months of flight school, which is about as fast as you can get through it.

And it's not because I was like being exceptional or anything, it's all about like if your classes line up right.

Some people have like a couple months in between classes.

Mine went back to back to back to back all the way through, which is I was blessed for that.

And then I rolled right into Apache training.

So like I had like two weeks off into Apache training.

So under a year, I or just over a year, I think, I was done with my advanced helicopter training.

And while I was in Apache training, which happened in which occurred in Arizona, there was a unit, a guard unit in Arizona that was co-located with the school.

And I learned that they were they were on the chopping block to go deploy.

And so ever since 9-11 happened, I was like, I may have joined the military mostly to pay for my school and because I thought helicopters were cool.

But once 9-11 happened, that you know, I had patriotism, but that got really inflamed once 9-11 happened, and I really wanted to go be part of that fight.

And so when I learned that that unit was deploying, I I transferred units so that I could go with them.

SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.

Wow.

So, how long were you in the service altogether, or are you still in the service?

SPEAKER_02: I'm still in service and I'm uh 27 years right now.

I dropped papers for retirement in March.

So the lights at the end of the tunnel, I can see it.

SPEAKER_03: Wow.

No, I mean that's really a remarkable career.

Yeah.

So so talk to me about your first your first mission overseas.

I, you know, would love just to get an idea of how that was.

SPEAKER_02: My first mission was really uneventful.

Uh basically, I was just, you know, spinning my head left and right, looking for bad guys, probably overly.

Where are they at?

Where are they at?

You know, I wore, I actually ended up with a scab.

I have like a 22-inch neck.

So like the plates in my, you know, the armor plates, it wore like a bloody scab on either side of my neck because I was turning it so much.

Oh, but I, you know, I got past that and realized there's contested areas and then there's contested areas, right?

So you don't need to be like, you know, left, right, left, right, left, right, look scan, scan.

You know, you you can kind of you pace yourself, you know.

Yes.

But I could tell you about my first engagement, because that was pretty my first engagement was was an eye-opener for sure.

While I was in Afghanistan, I was upgraded to aircraft commander, right?

And and probably prematurely.

So I didn't have a ton of hours, but they had a need.

I was next in the hopper.

Congratulations, Slade.

You're gonna be an aircraft commander, right?

Yeah, needs of the army.

But this was just prior to that happening.

So I was still a co-pilot.

So co-pilots sit in the front seat typically and they run basically the multifunctional, the basically the uh tactical acquisition displays, right?

So you're moving around with video, trying to find enemies, zooming in, zooming out, lots of technical, right?

So we roll into I'd been to TICs before, they're called Troops in Contact, but we hadn't really ever engaged up to this point because you the bad guys see us and they're like, oh, we're done, you know, and they you know they hide because they know that man, that that thing brings a big boomstick.

So we rolled around the corner on this one, and I remember the call sign.

I don't remember the call sign on all my engagements, but since this was my first one, it's seared in there.

And uh they're like, this is Titan 1-1, we are pinned down, taking fire from multiple positions.

So to paint the picture, this was a very, very steep canyon.

They were on one side on a road.

I mean, you might call it a value because there's a little taper to it, but it was really, really, really steep.

And on both sides, about 300 feet above the floor, there was a ledge.

On the one side, the ledge had the road the convoy was on, on the other side, there was a ledge, and that's where we perceived the fire was probably coming from, right?

But it's daytime, it's not nighttime.

It's really hard to see muzzle flash in the daytime.

And I hadn't actually learned how to see that yet because it's once you figure it out, you're like, oh, that's what that is.

You know, it's just almost like you don't really see it, but you do.

It's just it's just real quick, right?

So I was still trying, I'm searching and everything, and we're looking around, we're talking to the ground guys, and and and these these bad guys didn't stop shooting while we were there.

They're still shooting, and I was getting really frustrated.

I was like, it's happening, they're here, we just don't know where.

What you know, and so we're flying, and and my my backseat is Doug Earl, and he's very experienced guy, CW4 type, and he's the aircraft and commander, so he's the one actually on the controls.

I'm just you know acquiring things and talking to the guy on the ground and doing that kind of stuff.

And there's two helicopters, we stacked one of them higher than us because it was so steep, and then we were down low trying to snoop and poop, if you will.

Yeah, and and he starts to get frustrated too, and so he really gets aggressive.

Now, I don't know anything, I'm just a new co-pilot.

I'm like, okay, I'm along.

Is this what we're doing?

Yeah, this is what we're doing.

Let's do it, you know.

So he's getting down like 10, 15 feet, flying in and like, you know, hovering over things and and you know, real slow, real low.

I mean, that's a pretty juicy target for these bad guys, right?

Yes.

And so we're coming up to that ledge, we're on that ledge, and we slid off.

So right as we slide off that edge, we go from basically, I don't know, 15 feet to like 250, 200, maybe almost 300 feet.

And right then we get a blast that just reverberates boom! You know, through through and it lifts the helicopter.

I feel it come up, and it's like I in the book, I think I say I feel like my body was a tuning fork, like just like you know, like went through my guts and rippled the jello and all that stuff.

Now we're falling down into that ravine, and I'm like, we're shot out of the air.

My first engagement, and they blasted us, and we're gonna crash.

Man, that sucks.

I haven't never first one, you know?

And I can see the rock we're gonna hit.

And immediately, like it's like it's fast, but it's slow, right?

Yes, like it's happening so fast, but in your head, like I remember going, that's where we're gonna crash.

I don't wanna crash, you know, but that's what's gonna happen.

So, what am I gonna do after it?

Crash.

I'm like, well, I'm gonna brace myself for the crash.

Hopefully, I survive that.

I get out, grab my gun, get dugout, start calling.

This is all like happening like a fraction of a second, you know.

You're just thinking through that.

And then we're we're slicing down through the air, and then all of a sudden we start flying out of it.

And I'm like, wait, we're not gonna die.

Hey, yeah, this is hey, things are looking up, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

And and what happened is at least what we surmised happened, and this was the ground guy said this too.

Somebody shot an RPG at us, right?

And it blew either at the cliff, on the cliff next to us, or they have an airburst too.

If they go far enough, they just blow.

Like it's usually a thousand meters.

If they shoot a thousand meters, they'll just blow.

And so one of those two things happened, and it created this really volatile, uh really bad, dirty air for the helicopter to bite, like or a vacuum of air.

So we just fell.

Right?

Well, Doug, being the champion that he is, he manipulated a helicopter over and you know, kept the spinny thing spinny, so we continued to fly.

I thought we were gonna die, right?

So, you know, all that happens, and Doug says, Holy shit.

Yeah, and I and I'm like, and we get to the bottom and we got and we fly out, and I say, So that's what that feels like.

So we immediately like start to think, where did that, you know?

I'm like, hey Doug, honestly, if we got shot at with an RPG, it's gotta be on the other side, right?

Yeah, you know, and so we're over there and we can't find it, we can't find it.

And the ground guys start calling fire from the other side again where we were at where we were last time, right?

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: So we roll back over there, and now I start to see it.

I start to see the muzzle flash.

I'm like, wait, I think I'm seeing muzzle flash.

And then Doug's like, shoot it, you know.

Okay, all right.

So I confirm with the ground, you have nobody friendly on this side.

Yeah, no, so I start shooting the muzzle flash, and the ground guys confirm they're like, hey, now we're not taking fire anymore.

You, you know, and then and then there was other guys, so they pop up and they were so we kept working that, working that, working that.

And then, you know, Doug started getting aggressive again, which is kind of like attack pilots have this tendency.

And and in that very same spot, boom! Again, right?

And this time, this time it threw us sideways.

So but now, you know, now I'm like going off of you know, 10-minute old wisdom, right?

So I roll back into the inside the aircraft, I see our systems are all all working.

I'm like, okay, we're we're we're falling, but we're still flying.

We can still fly out of this.

Doug flies out of it again.

Now I'm like, okay, the two places that we got hit, right there, it's gotta be straight across.

We work our way over there, work with the ground guys.

We do find the dude that I mean the area, and he saw this, he saw the smoke on that one.

So we ended up getting rid of that guy, thank goodness, because uh before he got rid of before he got rid of us.

SPEAKER_03: So that was my first engagement.

Any point you thought to yourself, what the hell have I just signed up for?

SPEAKER_02: You know, it was really weird because in the moment my heart rate probably did go up, but like it was almost like my voice, like I'm I speak animatedly normally, right?

Okay, yes.

But in those moments, like it's like I almost take my personality, it gets unplugged.

I'm like, okay, what's next?

All right, looks like we're taking fire from yep, taking fire from the other side.

It has to happen that way, you know.

Like it's not how I normally talk.

In fact, some people like when we're in those moments or when I'm flying, they're like, Are are you depressed right now?

I'm like, no, just matter, I'm just matter of fact, you know.

And and so it really that's how it was.

And and I wasn't really thinking much about it at all until we landed.

And then I got out, and it's almost like when my foot hit the ground, it was like that's the reality check.

I was like, Oh, your foot didn't have to hit the ground today, you could have like never touched the ground again.

Like that very well could have been your destination today, and be grateful that it wasn't, you know.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you know, though, I would almost think that to be a soldier, to be a chopper pilot, and to be able to act how you have to, where you're making split second decisions, you have to almost have this separate almost personality, like you're totally in the game, you know, and so when you when you describe yourself like that, I think to myself, I would almost think you would have to be to be able to be at the top of your game, where you're you become almost like this machine of a person, you know?

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I think it you're you're you're 100% right.

But what I you know, that's part of the reason I wrote the book is some of that is is actually taught, right?

Some of it's what you bring, what you bring to the world with you in your bag of flesh, but some of it is actually taught.

And and the reason I wrote cleared hot really was for partially because of that reason.

Because when I came through this deployment and look back, I see it as a as a foundational piece of a better version of me.

Despite all the craziness and traumatic events that I was witnessed and was part of, I feel like it was foundational, right?

Yes, yes, but at the same breath, a lot of the people I served with had varying degrees of responses to that same stimulus.

And and same within the Air Force, flying combat, search and rescue, I've had peers actually, you know, take their own life.

That that's the uh the extreme, extreme other side of that reaction.

And so I really was trying to figure out what the difference was, and I and sat down with some mental health professionals and drilled down what I could drill down, and that was my story, right?

Yes, so we drilled down my story and tried to extrapolate things that maybe would be teachable as value added to fortifying your own mindset, yes, and we we identified things that weren't teachable because there's some things that you do bring with bring with you, you know.

Not a lot of kids, you know, kids don't get moved out of the house at 15 and decide they're gonna make it.

That's the little that's a personality thing, right?

But there were things that were teachable, and one of those things I call chair flying, and it's well, I don't call it chair flying.

Any pilot knows what chair flying is, and it it's really is it like if you took meditation and visualization and role play and and made a love child, that would be chair flying.

Okay, and we use it to like learn new maneuvers, like when you're f learning to fly, it's a fire hose, and you're trying to like it's so much to like focus on.

And and so you you practice it when you're not in the helicopter over and over again.

And at first, you know, I all I did was the visualization and maybe a little bit of the role play, like talking and moving my hands, you know, and you work through that to where you create a muscle memory, a mental memory.

And and so when you're in that net that experience, yeah, maybe it's only the third time you've done it for real, but you've done it 500 times mentally, right?

Yes, yes, and so it just makes it smoother.

And so when I knew I was gonna become an air, I had emergencies in flight school.

They called me the PL King, the precautionary landing king.

Okay, like call good luck or bad luck.

I had real emergencies in in in flight school, and it really said you need a chair fly because you never know what's gonna happen.

You never know if you're gonna have to do an emergency landing or whatever.

And so I started taking that to another degree where I would like do breathing exercise to get my mind right.

Then I would really roll, I would really visualize.

And every time I'd get to a point of resistance, I would figure out how I was gonna get through that and then start over until you got through the whole scenario with no resistance.

It's just smooth.

This is what I'm gonna do, that's what I'm gonna do, this is what I'm gonna do, to the point of how you're gonna talk, how you're gonna breathe, how you're gonna communicate that type of thing.

If sweat drips in my eye and it starts stinging, what am I gonna deal with?

You're gonna start to throw in variables and contingencies, and then you you go down those tributaries and figure out that all the way through through smooth.

And when I started doing that downrange, you know, with combat scenarios, what I didn't realize it was doing was also preparing my mind for the trauma.

They call it stress inoculation.

And just like a medical inoculation, when you give yourself a weakened dose of a disease, you stick it inside your body, your body adapts to it and it creates these antigens.

So when the real disease shows up, you can beat your chest and say, go away, right?

Yeah, so uh it's kind of the same thing with the trauma.

I was exposing myself to a weakened dose of the trauma mentally in a situation that I controlled and my body built up a resistance.

So when the real thing happened, I beat my chest and said, Go away.

Yes, yes, and so that that and six other principles that we came up with are the main reason I wrote the book.

Now, the book's a great war story, and you what if you're reading it to learn something, you will.

If you're reading it because you like war stories, you'll like it.

But like it's not super didactic, but it's the the reason I wrote it is exactly that.

And then we sum it all up on the end, and then the website at clearedhot.info, there's more backup stuff with with those lessons if people want to go down that road a little more.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that's I mean, dude, and I mean how much that can apply to so much of us in our everyday lives.

100%, you know, I love that.

SPEAKER_02: And that's why I that's why I love it.

You can use it for with an argument with your wife, you know, you can use it with a you know, uh a bad day at work.

How are you gonna deal with that?

How you know, and you know, the people that'll punch holes in it are gonna say, well, what about people that suffer with anxiety?

And and that's a valid concern, right?

Because if Thoreau said, you know, I I've had a lot of trauma in my life, some of it actually happened, right?

Or something.

I paraphrase, that's not exactly what I say.

He said it much more eloquently than that.

But yeah, but but yeah, and that's true.

So, but that's why there's steps to the chair flying.

You do the meditation piece to get your mind in a place that you're you're feeling a little bit of serenity and you're able to go into something that makes you uncomfortable.

And if you are one of these people that is significantly anxious, psychologists say exercise the too simple to fail.

Push yourself just to where you start to feel it, go back to the meditation.

Start again, push a little further, go back to the meditation, right?

And you're gonna get further and further and further, and then you know there's a truth to weaknesses can become your strengths.

SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.

So, so take me back now.

We we we just relived this first just totally insane combat mission that you're on.

This experience the chopper, but but fast forward me however you know, far into the future from that point, because I know you would end up earning a distinguished uh what is it, the the flying cross?

Is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_02: Distinguished flying cross, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Explain to me what that is and what that's all about.

SPEAKER_02: Uh a distinguished flying cross is a medal that they give you for whatever you want.

I don't want to toot my own.

It is just listen, you're a guest on the podcast.

Toot your own horn.

Yeah, I it's you know, well, I'll tell you the story that got it to me.

That's easy to explain.

Okay, perfect.

So it was later in my deployment, and I had become an aircraft commander, and I had to become the Doug, right?

I had to become the guy that was like, we're falling, now we got to get back to flying, you know, that kind of thing.

Yes, yes, so you know, it was a growth, you know.

I didn't just arrive there.

There was some stuff I did as a young aircraft commander that I'm quite honestly, I'll just say, I'm lucky I'm here because I was an idiot.

I was way too ballsy at times, I I was too aggressive.

I I made the but I I covered that in the book.

Like, don't be an idiot, learn the lesson.

Hopefully, learn it before it teaches you terminally so, right?

SPEAKER_05: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: But towards the end, and actually almost right before we're about to come home, we had to do this really big mission.

And I had a co-pilot with me.

We we had been doing continued 24-hour operations, and I had to, I had to actually get augmentation from other companies because my guys were just, I mean, we had it was just a really, a really hot heavy lift to keep keep Apaches over the situation that needed to keep it over.

All that being said, one day we're over this area and we're talking with the ground guys, and we've been engaging some and enemy was popping up left and right.

It was like whack-a-mole, you know, over here, over here, over here, over here, over here, right?

So we're doing that, and then then finally they say, Hey, we we are taking fire from the tree line, we don't know exactly where.

So we we headed over that direction and try to figure out we call it developing the situation, working with the ground guys to figure out where we're gonna shoot.

And they had this acoustic instrument that could like identify the bearing that on which the the rounds were coming from.

So they just finally had passed that to us.

Like, look, we're taking fire, and I don't remember the actual bearing, but say one, two, zero, taking fire at a one, two, zero, and uh, you guys are cleared in hot on that azimuth.

And I was like, okay, so we literally are rolling into that azimuth about 300 feet, maybe 60.

I was I was slowing back because I was I I knew that we would be if we they were about to clear us, and I wanted this to be my turn to go inbound.

If I kept my speed up, we would have had to do a whole nother lap, right?

Yes, yes.

So I was like slowing down because I'm like, it's almost there, it's almost time, it's all and then they called, I was like, Yes, okay, we're rolling in.

So we start rolling in.

So we're a little slower than I wanted to be, probably around 60 knots, and like I said, 300 feet.

And I'm in the bank, and all of a sudden, my co-pilot just starts screaming and like at blood curling, can't hear it, and he's like, I shot, I'm shot in the leg, they boss shot, you know, just screaming, right?

And so that'll get your attention.

But really, what got my attention is I also got rotor RPM low, which is not a good thing.

My engine had been shot out at the same time, and we're in that bank.

Now there's two engines in an Apache, but you don't fly as well with one engine, right?

So yes, so we're falling, rotor RPM low.

That's what keeps you spinning.

Uh, I mean, that's what you keeps you flying, is rotor RPM.

Yeah.

So I have to fix that, which means there's a the collective is in your left hand, and that's what makes the helicopter go up and down.

Counterintuitively, if your rotor RPM is low and you're falling, you have to push it down to go down faster, right?

Okay, and you like as like against your reflexes, right?

You want to come up, but if you come up with that thing, it will slow your rotor down even more and you'll just fall faster, right?

Yes.

And so I had slammed that thing down, but at the same time, my right control, the cyclic, was jammed.

So the engine went out, my co-pilot was shot, and the right, the cyclic, which is in your right hand, was jammed.

In the Apache, there's a backup control system.

And to get to it, you have to break the mechanical linkage, and then it's fly by wire, and it's a lot sloppier, but it it flies, right?

Okay.

And so in that bank, I remember thinking, because there's a that they advertise it, they call it a one second easy on, means once you break through that mechanical linkage, it doesn't take effect for one second.

And I remember when they taught us, I was like, who cares?

Why are you even talking about?

Now I know why.

Because we were in a bank, and I was like, if I snap it, I've already started to correct.

If I snap the direction I need to to break it out and it takes immediate effect, we're gonna go upside down and land on the rotor, and it doesn't work very well that way, right?

And so I remember thinking, please work as advertised, and I snapped it over.

And it did.

Thank goodness I'm here.

Spoiler alert, it works, and so I brought it back to center, and what I what it ended up being, and we found we realized this later, is when it blasted his leg, it shattered his femur, his leg came up and wrapped around the cyclic.

And and so that's why it was jammed, and then the engine was out, right?

So I dropped the collector, slammed the cyclic, bring it back to center, and we're we're still coming out of the air, and I communicate to my wingman, hey, my front seater shot, I'm in bucks, I'm out of here.

That's what it was.

Yes, right.

And so I had to let them know because I was going in on a gun run, and all of a sudden I'm bailing, right?

They need to know.

And so we're flying, we start flying.

We ended up we ended up punching our wing stores to give us some more power, which means you just so we have like rocket pods and hellfire pods on the outside of these like little wings that are on the Apache.

Okay, there's a plunger you can hit, and they'll drop those, and that's weight.

And when you drop that weight, then you have a little bit more power margin so you can fly a little bit faster, right?

Okay, okay.

So we end up doing that, and then then you know I have to attend to him and be like, hey man, what's going on?

Tell me where you're at, tell me where you're hit.

You got to put pressure on it, we gotta get that blood stopped, you know, that kind of thing.

And I'm a 30-minute flight from the nearest medical.

So we start trucking that way, and I'm just thinking, man, if he's hitting the femoral, this is a terminal event, he's done.

Yes, right, yes, yeah, because I can't get him anywhere fast enough.

And so of course, but then there was also a Chinook in the area, and they had some people on board, and I was like, Well, we can roll this thing on in the desert because I'm not, I can't land to a hover now.

I don't have enough power to do that.

Yes, and and I have sloppy controls because I'm in backup controls.

So rolling on in the desert doesn't sound that fun because there's yes, pretty challenging with that that situation.

But if he's gonna if he starts getting dizzy on me, that's what I'm gonna do.

So I radio to the Chinook or I had my wingman radio the Chinook and and say, Hey, be on standby.

We might need to stick this down and you guys transload.

And it became evident after you know four or five minutes.

Okay, he's got control of this thing because if it was a femoral, I wouldn't be talking to him anymore.

Yes, yes, and so he's still talking.

I'm telling him to drink water, do all these things.

So it's a long flight.

It was 30 30 minute flight that felt like a week, right?

Yeah, of course, yeah, and then we roll it on, and you know, and so anyway, that's the event that that earned me the distinguished flying.

SPEAKER_03: Wow, wow.

Did did your friend was he okay?

SPEAKER_02: So he, you know, he he didn't lose his leg.

It never worked the same, you know.

It had to take a lot.

I mean, well, yeah, so I got the thing shut down and I got out.

The the we coordinated with the ambulance and everything, but of course, you know Murphy's Law, they're on the wrong side.

We told them the right side, but they're on the wrong side of the runway.

So so I get out and I start, I forklift him out myself.

Like I grab his, and he's big like me too, so this was like a we're two like football players.

Yeah.

So I pick him up out of there and set him up on the what they call it, the Ford Avionics Bay.

It's just a little ledge that we kind of scoot out.

And then right then the fireman came up, and I I helped them pull him the rest of the way out, and his wound it was stopped right in front of me.

I don't know, it's just I don't know if this happened or if this is how I remember it.

But there's this gaping hole in his leg and like strings of muscle and blood and everything just hanging out of it.

And I'm looking at it, and the guy that my co-pilot that got shot, he he had a pretty good sense of humor.

In fact, as we got calmed down on the way in, we were kind of trying to keep it light and joking.

Okay, just just so that it wasn't this crazy stressful.

I mean, it was, but but to to minimize that.

And when I looked at it, he was joking when he said this, but it really had impact.

He goes, You got me shot, right?

And it was a joke, yes, but but man, did it punch me right in the throat because he was right.

Yeah, I'm like, I I did get you shot.

Whether I could have done something different, you can always say you could have done something different.

Like I got slow on that turn, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I could have sped up, I could have done this, I could have done that.

You'll kill yourself with what a coulda shoulda's though.

Yeah, you can't live in that world or you'll no you'll never get out of it.

But it really did have some impact.

And it but he did heal up and he actually ended up on American Idol, he had a voice, you know.

Oh, wait a minute.

And I'm like, of all the stupid stories they do on American Idol, why did they not do his story?

Yes.

So, but yeah, they didn't.

I mean, he didn't make it far enough, but I'm like, dude, I don't care how far he makes it, you tell that story.

Exactly.

You know, the guy that works at the grocery store, you're telling that story, tell his story.

SPEAKER_03: Wow, wow, wow, wow.

So that's I mean, that's pretty crazy.

I mean, dude, I mean, what blows me away though about that story that you just shared is the fact that all of this is obviously when you're in the air, you take this fire, all of this, we're talking stuff happening in the split second.

And and I guess it just goes back to you talking about your training and everything involved, is because I think to myself, the fact that here you are in the air, you've took the fire, all this, and yet you're like figuring stuff out, you're like, okay, this is jammed, we gotta go back.

Oh, yeah, I learned how to do a backup system.

I saw that like all of that while in the air, and I just think to myself, that's insane.

That all of that can happen that fast is just really incredible.

SPEAKER_02: Well, and then it does go back to that chair flying that I'm talking about.

Like, yeah, like you can't figure that out in that amount of time.

I don't care who you are, you have to have had figured it out ahead of time.

Like you have to have already been in that situation multiple times in your head in order to execute it fast enough that you fly out of it.

unknown: Right?

SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, and so I had, you know, I I'd chairflown me getting shot, him getting shot, engines out, backup control.

I had actually been in backup control.

Up control a couple times in the deployment from other engagements, and so it wasn't even the first time really that I'd been there.

I'd actually had an engine already kind of shot out, it wasn't fully out, but an issue earlier in the deployment.

So there was like some real world and chair flying experience that was backing up those decisions.

Yes.

And and that's why, yeah, yeah, it was a split second for all of that stuff.

But I wasn't like cognitively going through those gymnastics at that point.

I did the gymnastics prior, right?

SPEAKER_03: Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: And I listened to that.

I mean, we always listen to our gun tapes and we do like after action reviews and everything.

And, you know, that was one of those like test your metal type things where, you know, I'd always in my head when I went through, hey, one of us getting hit and all this kind of stuff happening, in my head, I was always like, I'm gonna stay calm and I'm gonna be keep my wits about me and I'm gonna take a deep breath if I need to, and I'm gonna do all those kind of things.

But you don't know if you're gonna do that until you have it happen, right?

So and it did.

I mean, that was um, I was glad it happened that way.

But I I if you asked me ahead of time, is this how you would have reacted?

I would have said I would like to, you know.

Yes, but now I can say I would react that way because it did happen that way, right?

Yeah, and that's not a credit to me, that's a credit to the preparation.

And I feel like that's the the lesson there for everybody that you can apply to, like we talked about, any situation.

You can mentally prepare yourself not only to act better in the moment, but now that event doesn't have the residual effects of PTSD, it's PTSG, growth, right?

Post-traumatic stress growth from that situation instead of the disorder.

Now, I'm not saying that doesn't have any negative effects.

Of course it does.

You can't go through something like that and not have anything.

But those, even those get leveraged to be foundational instead of you know, something that that is a tripwire.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

So now I'm curious along this journey that you've been on, what prompted you to want to take these lessons learned and put it into a book?

SPEAKER_02: It was the disparity of reaction between people.

Like there's such a difference of people's reaction to the same stimulus.

You have, like I said, you have growth on one end of the spectrum and you have taking your own life on the opposite, and then everything in between.

And I was just, I was like, there's gotta be lessons that we can apply to bring more people to the growth side, right?

Yes, and and keep everybody away from the suicide side, right?

Exactly, exactly.

And I felt like there was so much being done for the post-part of things, I wanted to do something for the pre-part of things.

And and what I found though, in doing all this is the steps that we uh we like the principles that we break down at the end of the book, really.

I mean, it's talked about through the book, but I try to be like real sneaky about it, like insidious, right?

There's a lesson.

This isn't school, read the book, right?

Yeah so I don't want to push people away with being overly didactic, but like it they're in there, and then at the end we recap it all.

And like I said, uh cleared hot.info, we have some more information, and I plan on building more as people share their stories and that kind of thing with me.

Which they can do, they can you can shoot me an email at Brian at clearedhot.info.com.

I always say, you never know when your story is gonna be the key to someone else's lock.

Share it, you know.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, that was really the the catalyst for doing it.

I've never had a desire to be a writer, to be honest.

But I do have a my mom said this way, she's like, Well, your first part of your career, you were focused on trying to save people physically, and now you're gonna find comfort in trying to save people spiritually and emotionally.

And, you know, that's her words, but I do find a quality of life in trying to help, you know, your brothers in arms, your and not just brothers in arms, just mankind in general.

That's what we should all do, right?

We should all try to help each other.

If we have a way to do it, then you know, I'm kind of a religious guy.

You don't keep your light under a bushel, right?

Yeah, I mean, let it out there.

And and I've had people read it already before and it hasn't launched yet.

I mean, I I don't know when you're gonna air this, but it launches October 18th.

And I've already had people read it in preparation, and it's had the desired effect in some places where they're like, oh, it really touched me and it helped me in this way, and I took action in this way.

That to me is that the book's worth it already.

Anything else is just gravy.

But what's been really cool is people who wouldn't typically pick up a military book have read it and they've had similar type experiences, and some of them were not intended consequences.

Like, I didn't see that.

I was like, that's amazing that it helped you in that way.

That was not even my intent, right?

Yes, yeah, and that's just you know, I'm like, it's a success.

You know, I if I sell one copy, it's a success.

SPEAKER_03: So yeah.

Oh my gosh, I absolutely love that.

Now, the title, cleared hot.

Talk to me about that.

What does that refer to?

SPEAKER_02: Okay, so cleared hot is is a directive that you get when you're working with somebody that has the basically the authority to give it.

You're working to make sure you meet all the parameters necessary to engage on your target, right?

We're trying to minimize collateral damage, make sure we're not hitting friendlies, make sure that we are hitting the guys that are that deserve it, right?

Yes and so we do that, and we'll develop, we could, like I said, develop the situation and they will say, you know, my call sign at different times, like arrow zero six, you are cleared hot at a one, two, zero, keep all fires west of the whatever zero nine line, right?

And so that gives you the parameters and lets you know that you're you're cleared to engage.

And the reason I picked cleared hot was twofold.

I think it's a cool name.

But the other is that's what we're trying to do with people in their lives.

We want you to be cleared hot, meet those rules of engagement, figure out how to maximize your effects and minimize collateral damage and move forward smartly and swiftly in your life.

Be cleared hot on your life, right?

And and that's really where the title came from.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, man, I absolutely love this.

Absolutely love it.

And and I just love the whole principle behind this idea, and especially when you talk about the people who've already read the book and given you feedback, and the lessons that they take from it are even different than what you had intended.

Isn't that just the power of sharing our own experiences, the lessons learned?

As you said, to just help out other people.

Because, like you said, that's what we should all want to do is to be able to use the stuff that we've done in life to help others, you know, and especially those who are going through something different or coming up behind us, you know, to give them a boost to maybe make things a little bit easier on them.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, that's what you do, Kevin.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.

That's yeah, that's what I try to do.

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: Exactly.

I mean, and I'm sure you will attest that it it just opens up your heart.

It does.

It it brings you more joy than you know, somebody could say, here's a million dollars.

It's not gonna bring me that's the same joy as it does to have that person that didn't the unintended consequence.

Yeah, I'm gonna be happy with a million dollars, not gonna turn it down, but but at the same time, it's not gonna bring that internal peace, right?

Yes, it just won't.

And and I and I feel like it not only that, it's cathartic.

Like me sharing my story has helped me deal with my story.

Whereas I think that a lot of people feel like they're struggling with their with their story, they don't share it, and then that thing just festers and comes turns into a malignant tumor.

It's better to share it, you know, with a with a trusted agent.

Like you're not gonna just you're not gonna cast your pearls before swine, so to speak.

But sharing it is cathartic, right?

Yes, it helps you deal with your story and file it away like it should be, as a part of your history that makes you you, not as a current obstacle of you becoming your best you.

SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly, exactly.

I love it, I love it.

Man, such a pleasure talking with you today.

So, for everybody, I know at the time of this recording the book's not out quite yet, but when it does release, where will people be able to find it at?

SPEAKER_02: So you can find it on Amazon, and you know, cleared hot, it's got a long, uh, a long subtitle because I wanted to capture it's like lessons learned on on love and and life and pre tsd, a bunch of other stuff in there, right?

So, but cleared hot is and and Brian Slade, my co-author is Mike Hirsch, who's got a history of writing military memoirs.

I it was a great guy to work with, helped me out immensely.

But yeah, it's cleared hot.

If it doesn't pop up, which it should, once people start buying it, it should pop up right at the beginning.

Right now, when you type it in, sometimes you get sometimes it pops up, and sometimes you get those grocery store love romance models.

And I'm like, that's not it.

You know.

Um, but once we once we start getting some traffic, it it should roll up.

And also, like I said, my webpage is clearhot.info.

You can order it through there too.

And it's good, you know, hardback, paperback.

I'm still working on the audio, so that's me reading it, which is ugh.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

Well, for me, you need to get busy because I want to listen to it.

So you need to get busy.

And I'm the same way.

You got you got it, you got a mission.

You know, you got it, you got a mission, Mr.

Helicopter Pilot.

You need to you need to stay out of the air and you need to get back on the microphone.

SPEAKER_02: So and that's what I that's the way I'm attacking it.

But let me tell you, it is a it that I have new appreciation for guys that do that because I can tell a story, but reading a story and making it sound like you're not reading a story is a gift.

SPEAKER_03: Yes, 100%.

I I agree with you there.

Yes.

Well, man, such a pleasure talking with you today.

I I to be honest, I have so many questions that we could literally talk for hours, but I feel like we we've got the sum of this story, and and the the biggest thing here, man, is just literally loving the fact that you've been able to just take what you've done, take what you've done in in serving our country, and now be able to just turn it around, put it in this book into a book that's not just a story, but truly can help people.

I just think that that is just so awesome and it's a pleasure to to have you on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate you having me, and I I admire what you're doing too.

I I mean that like when I say you're doing what I'm talking about.

And I I encourage as many people that are listening to do the same.

And also, if anybody's listening, and and I put this out on all of them, is like, I want to get out there.

I want to get out there and talk to people.

So if you have an organization or anything that that needs this kind of message, then hit me up on that, on Brian at at uh clearhot.info.

That's why, and that's my next uh mission in life is really to go out there and do this.

I retire in March and that's what I'm gonna try and do.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, man.

Well, fantastic.

Well, Ryan, thank you again.

And and for you listening today, I want you to be sure that all of Ryan's contact information for for him, for the website, for for purchasing his book, all of that is left inside of the episode show notes, show description, whatever you want to call it.

So just scroll down wherever you're listening to this and click that little button to expand the uh description and you can find links for easy access.

With that said, you know, I just want to send you out into the world with uh grit, grace, and inspiration.

I'll see you guys next week.

Hey, real quick before you go, I have one last thought to leave you with.

I of course hope that you've enjoyed today's episode, but more importantly, I want to remind you that I never want you to listen to an episode of this podcast to hear something that I have to say or that my guest has to share and think, wow, I wish I could be like them.

I wish I could overcome my own challenges and do the great things that they are doing, but I just can't.

Well, friend, that's where you're wrong.

You are capable.

You are able, and you darn sure are deserving of having all that you can imagine in this life.

There's nothing special about me or any guests I have on this podcast.

We are all just normal people trying to make it in this life.

And so I encourage you to take a look at yourself in the mirror and remind yourself that you know what?

I can do it too.

Now, of course, if you would like to help along that way, reach out to me.

Whether that's as a listener of this podcast, a friend, or if you'd like to work with me as a coach.

My contact information is inside of every episode's show notes, just like this one.

So go down, check out my contact information, and reach out to me today.

With that said, I encourage you to take on the day every day with great grace and inspiration.