God's Plans are Always Greater than Our Own with David and Dana Hagstrom

They always want to know how I've done it and how I've kept smiling all along the way.

Well, I've just chosen to focus my attention on thinking the positive podcast.

And on the podcast, that's what I want to do for you.

Because no matter what you may be going through a mic, I hope to inspire you to focus on the positive.

And you know what?

I hope that I can also be a source of inspiration for you to just be both models.

Hey, what's happening?

My name is Kevin Lowe, the host here on The Lowdown with Kevin Lowe.

And you're tuning in for what is episode number 65.

I always think it's kind of funny in life that it seems like when we feel as though we have it all figured out, kind of like we know where our life is going, what we're going to do.

I feel like it's at that moment when things generally change.

Because I feel like at that moment, I picture God sitting there looking down on us from heaven and thinking, if they only had a clue what I have in store for them.

And well, I feel like this type of situation is definitely true for the guests here on today's podcast.

Husband and wife, David and Dana Hagstrom.

David and Dana, well, they thought they were retiring to the mountains of Mexico.

David, he was a pastor, and Dana worked as a paralegal.

And they finally decided, you know what?

Not only are we going to retire, but we're going to go ahead and pack up our lives, say goodbye to everything we've known, and move abroad.

And so here they are today talking to me on the podcast about what happened when they retired to the beautiful mountains of Mexico.

Because, well, I feel like it was at that moment that God said, if you guys only had a clue what's about to happen.

Because David and Dana would find themselves getting involved in the world of online business.

And they would realize that there was so much out there that they realized, you know what?

Maybe we can take the skills of our past careers combined with our new interests and our new gifts and talents, and start helping other people who too want to experience this whole new world of operating a business from the comfort of your home office, where you too can live abroad and still have a successful career.

So that's when they embarked on the journey that they are at today, where they are helping other aspiring entrepreneurs to develop their own online businesses.

And what's awesome though about David and Dana Hagstrom is the fact that they don't hide the fact that they are Christians.

Matter of fact, that's at a core of their entire business and their messaging.

And they want to combine Christianity with business.

I feel like me personally, that that sometimes is like a certain subject that people just try to not interject.

They try to keep religion out of work.

Well, you know what?

It's not religion.

It's your faith.

It's a part of you.

And so if you have the opportunity, why would you not combine the two?

And well, I feel like they've done so in just such an awesome way.

So, anyways, here on the podcast today, I'm about to introduce you to this amazing couple doing amazing things while getting to experience a little piece of paradise in the mountains of Mexico.

I welcome you to episode 65, my interview with David and Dana Hackstrom.

David and Dana Hackstrom, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: Well, Kevin, it's great to be here.

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.

Absolutely.

Well, I'm super thrilled to have you guys here today.

And so I guess I would love to start off.

I mean, you guys have so much going on.

I I have gotten to be part of uh, you know, your newsletters and stuff that you send out and the emails.

And I'm like, oh my goodness, they are just doing everything.

And and so I would love to start though.

I know you guys, I guess I would say in a more unique living situation where you are in the world.

So so let's start there.

Wait, where in this world are you?

SPEAKER_01: Well, we are living in the mountains of Mexico on Lake Chapala.

So it's as beautiful as it sounds.

It's sort of tropical right now because we're in rainy season, but it also will become quite arid and dry about April or May.

So we retired here to to start a new life and see what God had for us.

And each day is an adventure.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.

So now, where did you guys live before moving to Mexico?

SPEAKER_02: Well, we lived in a number of places.

I was a pastor for 35 years.

And part of that story was, well, to start out, I arrived in a small rural congregation with two master's degrees and a PhD in biblical interpretation.

And I vividly recall riding with a friend on his tractor one day when he said, that was a really interesting sermon yesterday, Pastor.

What were you trying to say?

Suffice to say, I had a lot to learn about the real world.

Yes.

And over the years, uh ministry was filled with highs and lows.

I was a senior pastor in a large congregation, then executive pastor in a huge congregation.

And then they changed their staff model, and I was downsized at age 58.

And we found ourselves in a small Iowa town serving a small congregation.

And though ministry was rewarding, there were frustrations mounting.

I felt like a fish out of water.

They realized that I was used to working with a large staff in a large, larger city.

And after a while, I felt like I'd given about all I had to give.

So one night I analyzed our pension account and calculated that Dana and I needed to work another six to eight years.

And frustrated, I told Dana that news, adding jokingly, unless we decide to do something radical to retire sooner, like move to Mexico.

SPEAKER_01: I did not know he was joking.

I knew the frustration though, and boy, that sure sounded good.

Mexico, after heading into an Iowa winter.

I don't know if your listeners are Midwest or where they are, but they're cold and icy, and I commuted, and it was so yeah, Mexico sounded great.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.

I promised Dana we'd move south when we retired.

I just didn't say how far south.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: You guys truly went south of the border.

You didn't.

Yes, we did.

Oh my gosh.

So, so now how long ago was that that you guys actually moved to Mexico?

SPEAKER_01: We arrived here in October of 2016.

So we're coming up on our five-year anniversary.

SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.

That's so awesome.

Wow.

How has it been?

Has the experience been kind of everything you could have dreamed?

Has it been difficult?

You know, just kind of curious.

I mean, moving to even even though Mexico's, you know, just a neighbor of the United States, it's still a different country.

And so I'm sure a lot of people are kind of thinking, these people are crazy.

SPEAKER_02: A lot of people were telling us we were crazy.

Yes.

But we also had some people that thought what we were doing was pretty exciting.

So that was, you know, that sort of balanced it off.

We drove down here, and after we reached San Antonio, the next day we drove 19 hours to get to where we finally now reside.

Well, one of the things I remember was encountering a fellow U.S.

citizen that had been living in Mexico for a long time.

We encountered him near the border, and he said, You'll do fine as long as you remember one thing.

This is Mexico.

It's not the United States.

And any expectations that we bring from, you know, our lives in the United States probably don't fit.

SPEAKER_01: And that serves us well on many, many, many occasions when things just didn't go the way we expected, or we had to wait longer, or dealing with paperwork.

That's I don't know.

There's all sorts of things that are way different here, but at the same time, the blessings abound.

You know, we've got fresh fruits and vegetables for a fraction of what you pay in the United States, and they're so they're fresh, they're right off the farm, so they taste even better.

I, as an Iowa girl, I've never tasted fruits and vegetables this delectable.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Oh wow.

So now, did you guys know Spanish beforehand?

SPEAKER_02: We started studying Spanish maybe a year.

SPEAKER_01: About a year out.

Yeah.

In fact, we even started a website about Spanish speaking programs or just language learning in general, because we thought, well, we're learning what programs we like and why we like them.

Let's do some reviews.

So that was kind of our start into affiliate marketing, which is kind of where we landed when we got here.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

No, that's so awesome.

Well, were you guys able to pick up Spanish relatively easy?

I know for some people it's a little bit easier than others.

Me, myself, I struggled in my two years of Spanish in high school.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

Well, what I can say is this both Dana and I can get along in most situations with the Spanish that we have learned.

On the other hand, I wouldn't say that we are fluent.

SPEAKER_00: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: When you know, having a conversation with someone on the street is is difficult.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely, definitely, definitely.

So now, so so going back to the part of your life story when you're talking about being a pastor, I'm curious, any particular, like, you know, specific denomination of you know church that you you know pastored at?

SPEAKER_02: I served Lutheran congregations over those years.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.

Awesome, awesome.

So now moving to Mexico, and and I guess specifically where you guys moved to Mexico, do you guys have a church there that you're able to attend?

SPEAKER_02: Well, that's quite a story in itself.

SPEAKER_01: It is, and God has quite a sense of humor.

We have been attending a church, and actually the pastor was getting ready to leave, and all of a sudden, David's pastor.

It's like it just sort of fell into his lap.

And it's like God said, You are not retired, you are going to pastor this church.

So it's a small mission congregation, and we've been online because of the COVID pandemic since March of 2020, and that's gotten to be a little too comfortable.

But we don't have a building now, so doing it online, and virtually we're able to bring in people from all over the world, not just Mexico.

So we've got people attending from Canada and the US, and of course, Mexico, and but we're looking forward to what God's got for us when when we can start doing more on the ground kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

No, that's awesome.

That's awesome.

So now I know I know that one of you have said something that I read when researching, you know, and in preparing for our interview today, is that about the thing of listening to God's voice for direction.

And is that is that a big thing for you guys with these kind of wild ideas of moving to Mexico or even once you're in Mexico, what you guys are doing, you know, today for work and stuff, is is that a big part of your faith journey?

Is is kind of listening for for what God's telling you?

SPEAKER_02: It is, but probably a little bit different than maybe the average person thinks when they hear those words.

We find ourselves spending time reading the scriptures and in prayer each day, both together and separately.

We are in fellowship with other Christian friends that we share with and look to for their guidance as well.

And we are open to see what opportunities arise.

And in the midst of scripture and prayer and other people and talking with one another, what we believe God is saying to us through that whole mix of things.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.

I totally understand.

Wow.

So that's also now today, and and I mean, obviously, this has been something you guys have been doing for a while, but I know you guys, you know, Dana, I believe it's you who does the the Bible blogging.

SPEAKER_01: Right.

Yeah.

I have a devotional reflection blog every day.

I take some scripture, I read it, and then see what kind of comes out.

And I'm hoping to connect people with God in a in a fresh new way.

SPEAKER_02: Of course.

And she has a real gift for that, relating things for people in a way that they can easily understand.

And I've had the opportunity to edit some of her devotions into books.

She now has four books published, and uh I've loved the opportunity to be her editor.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.

That's uh so Dana, where I mean, my goodness, blogging's one thing, four books is a whole other thing.

Have you always had that passion for for writing?

SPEAKER_01: I have.

Ever since I was a little girl, I I loved to write.

I would write stories.

I would write love stories, you know, like romance novel kind of things, because that's what I was reading, but I've always enjoyed that.

But it wasn't until maybe about two years, two, three years ago when you know, I really felt God was saying, You're gonna write for me.

So up until that point, I was doing the blog and I was doing journaling and and kind of contemplating on what scripture was.

But you know, he wanted me to get it out there.

And that's what I'm doing because I know how many people really struggle with you know, talking to God, or you know, that can seem really, I don't know, intimidating.

And the Bible, especially the Old Testament, can be also intimidating.

So I wanted people to be able to just set aside all of that worry and and connect.

So I'm now be able to use those gifts God gave me to serve him in that way.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's wonderful.

And I think I think that's such a I think it's such a gift because I think for any of us, and even even those of us who have been Christians for for a long time in our lives, the Bible can sometimes be a little bit intimidating.

You know, that there's parts of it that that's written in a way that's different than how we speak today.

Sometimes, you know, just things that we read it and maybe it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to us, you know, the first time you read it.

And and so I feel like that's pretty awesome.

I think the way that you've incorporated your your your blogging and all that of kind of, you know, taking that and breaking it down and and you know, and and putting it out there for people, I think is pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_01: Thank you.

It's it's something I look forward to doing every single day, except Sunday.

I take Sundays off.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, well, that's good.

That's good.

That's wonderful.

So now, in what other ways are you guys spending your your life right now?

Because I know you're you're working with uh other people in different aspects of like the online space because that's become a big thing for you guys.

And you even touched on it earlier about like the affiliate marketing.

And and so tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

We had started blogging before we left the United States.

We had a blog about retirement and another blog about learning languages.

And then after we got here, well, we looked at what we were doing.

We were blogging, we were doing some affiliate marketing on our blog.

We were also doing some network marketing, and we continued with that for a while, but really our core direction came after we'd been doing those things for a while, and we're at a conference and we're meeting with some of our mentors.

And one night I was talking to Todd and shared with him our business plan for the next 90 days, and he helped tighten up a few details and then turned to us and said, Okay, you guys are ready.

You need to be coaching others.

And boy, at that time we really didn't feel ready, but in retrospect, he was right because I came to realize that in my 34, 35-year ministry, my gift for strategic planning had really come to the fore, both as senior pastor in the one congregation and then as executive pastor coaching staff members in another congregation.

And essentially, what had happened is I learned how to apply that gift for strategic planning in a new business area.

And now it was time to begin coaching others.

SPEAKER_00: Well, that's awesome.

So now do you guys coach people specifically who want to get into like the Bible blogging space or just any type of blogging?

SPEAKER_02: Well, really, we work primarily with Christian affiliate marketers and course creators.

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: And even other coaches as well, you know, folks that are trying to figure out how to market themselves online.

SPEAKER_00: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that is an ever-changing thing.

And we, you know, build our business from from scratch, and we know how to do that.

So we work with folks that are trying to do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02: And when we started out, we worked with a small group of online marketers.

But honestly, there was still something missing at that point.

We could help people with almost any individual piece of online marketing, but it was still sort of hit and miss which piece to work on when.

Sort of like we were putting pieces into a puzzle, but the overall picture was still unclear.

And then one day, and it did happen just in one day, the picture came into focus both for us and for coaching others.

We got to the place where we could walk through a list of questions and say, here is what you need to focus on now to move your business forward.

And at that point, our level of excitement and enthusiasm for coaching went through the roof.

And we got to the place where we can say very honestly, we believe we can help you develop a profitable online marketing business without an overwhelming task list.

And we can show people how to do that.

SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.

That that's very cool.

Very, very cool.

Now, now, one thing you you touched on, and and I am just curious what exactly is meant by the term when you talk about like Christian affiliate marketing.

I know affiliate marketing, and then when we add Christian affiliate marketing, what exactly does that mean?

SPEAKER_02: Okay, what we mean by that is simply this.

What we have discovered over the last several years is that the people that are attracted to us, I guess just because of our own background and what we bring to this are Christians.

I don't mean to say that Christians do affiliate marketing completely differently than anyone else.

For the most part, you know, it's the same thing, although their values may be shaped in a somewhat different way.

SPEAKER_01: And I have run into folks that, you know, sometimes have a hard time.

Figuring out how that works.

You know, I'm Christian and I've got these values and I don't want to be salesy and sleazy, and I can't do things that are aren't true.

And a lot of times in this online space, even David and I have encountered it where we're being told, even by our coaches and people we trust, to do things that we felt were not right, that we had a hard time with, that, you know, we wanted to be full of integrity.

And so we want to be able to show other people how they can use, you know, Christian principles to build a successful business and not have to do those things that are uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I totally love that because and I'm so glad you you touched on that whole subject because that's what I was going to ask you guys about, is if anybody has given you guys any type of like pushback, because it does seem from the outside when when we when we just talk about it from this, you know, like little perspective of of you know, here you guys are Christians, and and then we're talking about something that, you know, affiliate marketing, which, you know, of course, any type of marketing and affiliate sales,

right from the get-go, everybody kind of I think has this immediate kind of like like ooh, like sleazy, you know, salesman, you know, mentality, you know, that kind of comes to mind.

And so I wanted to ask you guys if you had experienced any kind of you know pushback from people.

And the fact is that you're really teaching it from that perspective that you can be a Christian, have those values, yet still do, you know, make a living, you know, through something where you're honest and and you don't have to to be that kind of sleazy, you know, affiliate salesman.

SPEAKER_02: So exactly.

Exactly.

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

So now I'm curious for you guys, you know, do you have any advice for somebody and I'm not even gonna go as far as saying that somebody wanting to move to Mexico or a different country, but even maybe just somewhere even within the United States, or if if somebody's listening to this, you know, and they live, you know, outside of the US, even if it's moving somewhere within their own country, it's a big decision.

And I, you know, I'm curious from your guys' perspective, who you've done it, if you would have any advice to that person.

SPEAKER_02: Well, I'd love to talk with that person and ask some questions about the reasons that they're moving and what it's attracting them to the new place.

But overall, we would tend to be encouraging about trying something new.

On the other hand, if they're running away from something in the the place they're leaving, you know, you tend to bring baggage with you.

So you know, I in that case, I'd say, well, resolve things where you are first and and then think about taking the next step.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, definitely, definitely.

I I totally agree with that 100%.

Wow.

So so now where where do things go from here?

Any any new plans, either, you know, with business or just life in general?

I know the world is just seems to continue to be a little bit crazy.

It seems like it's trying to get back to normal, whatever normal was.

But, you know, just kind of curious what's uh on the horizon for you two.

SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, we we don't want to be bored in our retirement, you know.

We we're always looking for new and exciting ways to serve.

And so, you know, this past year, I've done a lot of networking with other business owners and attending networking events and such like that.

And I really see the value in you know, promoting each other's stuff.

You know, they promote us, we promote them, we get you know, it's a great way to get new leads, fresh eyes on what we have to offer.

But what I've encountered, and when you were talking about pushback a little bit earlier, I've encountered in these groups anytime I start talking about my faith or my faith journey, it's like everybody stops listening and the amount of interest, you know, it goes way down.

Where, you know, other people when they're talking about other belief systems and you know, more new age kind of things, those tend to get a lot more attention.

So when I was talking to a couple of my Christian business friends, they said, you know, we need an association or a place where we can go as Christians to meet with other Christian business owners so that it doesn't get awkward or we don't feel like we're being minimized because of our beliefs.

And so out of that, God has put a little project on my plate, and later this year, we're gonna be launching what's called the Lighthouse Networking Association, and so that will be a virtual association of global well, global and virtual, that's key, Christian business leaders to network and collaborate and thrive.

So that's what's on my plate, and that's what I'm super excited about right now.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you said later this year, but really you're launching next month.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.

It's it's coming quick.

SPEAKER_00: Well, that's awesome.

Oh my gosh.

Well, that's super excited, and I think that is something that is so needed, and I absolutely love the whole idea behind that.

So, yeah, so I'm super excited.

I'm actually sitting here thinking myself, I'm excited to check that out for myself.

So, all right.

SPEAKER_01: Well, I can get you some information.

I'm looking for folks to help me promote this, you know, that that have a you know audience of Christian friends who own businesses, and they may not necessarily be serving other Christians, or you know, but if they're Christian and they're looking for eyeballs and leads, if they're looking for a community where you know they can be recognized or just some encouragement and support.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.

Absolutely.

Well, guys, I love it.

I I absolutely love your story.

I love the sense of adventure from the two of you.

And in a chorus, I just I it's it's always a breath of fresh air, I feel, to talk with somebody who who is strong in their faith, who keeps that at the forefront, doesn't hide the fact that they're a Christian, even in the world of business.

And and I think that that's something that that all of us can use as a reminder that our faith, it's not something that's just reserved for Sunday morning.

It should be part of us, you know, every day of the week.

So I really like that.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.

That's perfect.

SPEAKER_02: This has been delightful visiting with you, Kevin.

SPEAKER_00: We really appreciate the opportunity.

Well, wonderful.

Well, well, guys, I'm you know, all I'm sitting here thinking is I gotta let them get back to their uh beautiful setting and enjoying retirement.

And uh it sounds like there's probably much more beautiful things to be doing than uh sitting in front of a microphone.

SPEAKER_01: So it's all part of it.

Each day is full of so many different things, and it's one of our favorite things as well.

SPEAKER_00: Well, wonderful.

Well, well, David and Dana Hagstrom, thank you once again for being guests here on the Lowdown with Kevin Lowe podcast.

And for all of you listening today, I hope you enjoyed another awesome guest here on the podcast.

And that's the Lowdown with Kevin Lowe.

I hope today's episode inspired you, motivated you, and excited you to get out and enjoy life, no matter what obstacles may be standing in the way.