Making Touchdowns in Life with Zac Hoffman

And my hope is that you'll need to feel inspired, motivated, and excited to take on the dead.

You're turning in to episode number 46.

And, you know, sometimes maybe it is the case that we get to be the star quarterback, but maybe other times we're the person behind the tool who is helping that quarterback defeat, that winning touchdown at the end of the Super Bowl.

So I want you to meet Zach Hoffman as we get to hear a piece of his story and how he discovered what his life's purpose truly is.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I played quarterback basically since I started Pee-We football up to high school, and I just love the position I remember growing up watching Monday night football as a kid, and I used to have a jersey for almost every single team, and I would kind of put the jersey on of the team that was playing and kind of reenact the game as it was going on.

And I always uh remember I had a Dan Marino jersey, and he was like just about the end of his career when I really started to get into football.

And so that kind of is what got me into the quarterback position.

He's also from Pittsburgh, and so I just kind of really took to uh the quarterback position.

And like I said, as I got to high school, I played up to high school.

Unfortunately, uh my body didn't really line up with my mind as far as the position because you know, quarterbacks are usually bigger guys, you know, taller, and you know, that's not me.

I'm an average-sized guy, about five foot nine.

So that was something that kind of gave me a chip on my shoulder growing up, just because being undersized and playing physical sport like football, you know, I really realized that I had to give myself an edge in one way or another.

And I realized that my mental toughness and my physical toughness had to be better than the other, the others in my position, just because of the disadvantage I was in because of my size.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

Now, did you did you have like this kind of realization while still in high school playing?

SPEAKER_01: Or it's funny you say that, Kevin, because uh I would tell you, if you would have asked me this a week ago, I would tell you no.

I would say it happened in college.

However, as I kind of sat back and was thinking about you know my time in high school, I think in my unconscious mind, I kind of knew that my ultimate goal of going to the NFL wasn't gonna happen.

But I I would say I kind of blocked it off because I I honestly didn't know how to identify myself as a young kid and a young person, other than being an athlete and uh and a quarterback, you know.

I I that's all I ever wanted to do.

I didn't have many hobbies as a young person.

But I think, you know, as I look back and think back, I think I kind of always knew that my body just didn't line up with the goals that I had.

But I just wasn't able to admit it.

And I think the reason I wasn't able to admit it is because I didn't have a plan outside of sports.

That was kind of my end-all be-all.

So I would say, I mean, unconsciously, yes, I kind of did know that I wasn't, it just wasn't meant for me.

It wasn't my plan.

But, you know, I was still driven and I still wanted to, you know, give it my all because I thought that that was what I was meant to do.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that that's pretty powerful.

Now, was it not until after high school, maybe in in college playing, that that kind of the two different perspectives kind of collided together from this, you know, subconscious to the the truth, you know, staring you dead in the face that this dream wasn't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's exactly what happened.

I remember I was uh sophomore.

I was going into my sophomore year.

I had just transferred from a Division II school because I remember when I first got into camp, there were eight quarterbacks on the roster.

And uh I wasn't told that going in.

And so it was I knew that to get on the field at that school would be very hard.

So I transferred to a division three school back closer to home.

And I got, you know, I went through a season there, it was good, I got some playing time, it was fun, but I just remember there was a moment I had during the off-season.

It was during winter workouts in the off-season.

I was in my dorm room after a workout and I was just kind of sitting on my, sitting on my bed, and it kind of just all hit me at once.

It kind of just was like a rush of emotions where, you know, I kind of call it, you know, I think it was, you know, I I believe God was telling me that, hey, what you're doing now, it's it's fine and it's what you like.

You know, football is something you enjoy, but there's a bigger purpose for you, and it's not the purpose that you originally thought.

And it kind of just hit me that I wasn't gonna go to the NFL, that the path I was currently on was leading me to a path towards some sort of mediocrity, I could say.

And what I mean by that is kind of just going down a path of, you know, I was a good student, I would have graduated, I would have, you know, got an accounting degree, I would have probably had a great job when I was finished and been financially well off.

But deep down in my heart, I also knew, you know, outside of my goals to play in the NFL, I also knew that I wanted to live a life of impact.

And I didn't want one of my biggest fears was kind of living my life and letting it go by and not having any other impact on, you know, society or or other people's lives.

And it was kind of an awakening for me that said the current path that you're on is leading you down a path toward the majority, what the majority of people are doing.

And I always wanted to go against that because I felt that my purpose was greater in some way or another.

And so that kind of realization, you know, in in my dorm room, obviously it was very emotional, kind of caused me to say, okay, I need to make a very drastic decision here.

I need to do something that's risky for my for my for myself, for my development.

So I made the decision to to drop out of uh school, kind of leave the football team, go back home, and I didn't really have a plan.

I said I I'll just start working, go to community college, and just kind of see what happens.

And uh little to be known, that's kind of when my my big story began.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

So now I'm curious how long had you been away at college when when this realization occurred?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was my second year.

I was about it was a year and a half.

I didn't even finish, it was the second semester of my sophomore year.

So I was um Yeah, it was a time where I think, even like I said before about how my kind of unconscious mind maybe knew, it was the same as my freshman year of college.

You know, I kind of knew at that point, right when I got on campus, I said, in the back of my mind, I knew I wasn't gonna reach my goal.

And however, looking back on it, I realized that my goal in the end, it actually wasn't what I thought it would be.

Like, for example, I thought I wanted to play football to be seen as a great athlete and for the fame and obviously the financial benefit.

But as I look back on it now, it wasn't for that at all.

It was essentially the reason why I wanted to go professional is to provide for my family, who, you know, when I grew up, we, you know, we we were, I grew up in a single parent home and I saw my mom struggle with me and my sisters.

I think that really, you know, going through that and seeing and understanding, you know, how NFL players, you know, were financially well off and they could take care of their families, that's kind of what drove me.

Not necessarily the sport of football, but what it would give me.

And when I realized that I wasn't going to be able to receive what football would give me, then it kind of lost its luster, I guess.

Lost it, I lost my passion for it, at least for the time being.

And thank God that football was still a part of my story.

I just never would have expected, you know, the the way it the way it became a part of my story, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that that's something.

And and I guess I can't help but sit there and think to myself, I mean, so basically, probably second year of college, maybe around like 20 years old or so.

Yeah.

To have and to have the the mindset at such a young age to realize, you know, in yourself that that this thing that you've been dreaming of ever since you were a kid isn't meant for you, isn't in the capacity in the way that you've dreamed it.

And so the fact that you then could could realize it then and then feel it deep enough in your heart and stuff to make that big change, I think speaks very highly of you, you know, at such a young age to have that that type of mindset.

And um I I am curious though, is what was the reaction of you know, your family, your mom and stuff when you said, Mom, I'm I'm dropping out and heading back home.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's exactly what you would expect, you know, a lot of backlash, uh, very little support from family, you know, teammates that I had.

They were telling me, you know, what are you doing?

You know, you're in a great situation, you know, you're gonna play next year, you're gonna be in the line to be the starter.

And so it didn't make sense to anyone.

It didn't really and and and you know, honestly, I knew it wouldn't make sense to anyone, but like I said before, I I knew that, like I said, it was just a realization that hit me, and it and it was the realization was hey, the reason that you started playing football, they're not gonna get to the that highest level.

And so if you want to have a life of impact, you have to find another way.

And I think even more, even more than my you know, will to play in the NFL was my fear of not having any sort of impact.

And that and that's what kind of drove me and and and it had always been football first, it'd always been sports, sports first.

But at that point it kind of shifted to, okay, is this goal is not gonna it's not gonna be realized.

So now you have to focus on the impact part.

And it was something that, like I said before, it was uh a lot of backlash came with it.

However, I just kind of stuck to my guns because I knew that in the end it was my life and my decision.

And despite being only 20 years old and going against kind of what the norm does at that age, I I knew that this was an opportunity to create that impact, to go against the norm and what every, you know, what society considers uh, you know, uh I don't want to say a normal path, but a you know, a consistent path of education.

Uh and I knew that I would get my degree eventually.

I knew that, you know, that all would come in the time being, but I also knew that I was young and if I wanted to take this risk, now was the time, rather than, you know, 10 years down the road.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

And and I guess, and I can't help but you know, sitting there thinking of to everything you're saying is for the person listening to this podcast today, is I think I think what what you'd speak of as such a valuable lesson is the fact that it doesn't matter if you're 20 years old in college or you're 50 years old and in a career.

If you in your heart know that you're meant for something more, then you know what?

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks or has to say, it's about you.

And so sometimes you you have to just focus on what your heart is telling you to do.

And so I think that's awesome.

Now, now I'm curious though.

So you move back home.

So then how does that shift to you deciding, you know what, I'm headed to Europe?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was actually uh yeah, I could say it's it was it was uh as unexpected as my situation and my decision to to leave school in most people's eyes.

So what happened was I I got home for the summer and I was in community enrolled in community college.

I just wanted to get my kind of pre-reserquid courses finished and kind of figure out what I was gonna do.

I thought about maybe going to play baseball somewhere.

And I started working a job as uh cement, I was laying cement in the summer.

I remember I did it for about two or three days, and I came home and I said, okay, I I can't I can't kind of sit back and chill here.

I gotta figure out something.

It kind of woke me up that that's something I definitely didn't want to do for a long period of time.

So I thought to myself, I said, okay, well, what options could be out there?

Uh what could what could be out there?

And so I remember what actually kind of struck my interest was my mom at the time was working for a um a foreign exchange company that helped international students study in America for you know a semester or two.

And she kind of told me, yeah, you know, I'm going on a conference to Europe for for my job.

And I said, Oh, Europe, okay.

I really didn't know much about Europe, I just knew, you know, it was across the ocean at the time.

I was very Americanized, I guess you could say.

And after she said that, I said, huh.

It kind of just hit me in my mind, and I remembered playing the Madden NFL football game when I was a kid.

And at that time they had NFL Europe, and they used to have the European teams listed as far as the teams you could select.

So I that that kind of got me realizing, ah, there must be American football there too.

So I kind of just did some research.

I found a website where you know you can upload some some highlights that you're from your playing career, and you know, maybe a team would be interested and choose to sign you.

And I said, What the heck?

It was free.

I just, you know, filled out the profile, uploaded a film, and didn't think really anything much of it.

I didn't think anything of it.

I just kind of said, okay, that was that was nice, whatever.

And uh two days later, I get an email from an American coach in Florida who said, Hey, you know, I have this job for you in Poland.

They're looking for a quarterback to come play for them for you know the rest of the season.

Are you interested?

And when can you come?

And I was at first I thought it was a joke.

I was like, no, this can't happen, this is this can't be true.

This is this I just filled this profile out two days ago.

This can't, this can't be reality.

But little to be known it was.

And he said to me, you know, do you have your passport?

Which thank God I did because I just went on a vacation with my family to the Caribbean on a cruise, you know, the month beforehand, so I had my passport.

And uh, and it kind of just he said, you know, I I need a decision by the by the end of the week.

And at that time it was Wednesday or Thursday, so it was almost the end of the week.

And obviously, just like the decision I made to leave school, there was backlash.

You know, my family was scared for me to go over there.

They knew that you know it was a foreign place, foreign language, I didn't know the area, I was still young.

But I I knew that this was the chance I I had been looking for.

This was the drastic shift that I needed in my life.

And I knew that if I didn't, you know, decide to go that I would regret it later down the road.

And I never knew if I would have that opportunity again.

And so I said, you know what, I'm gonna go and just make the best of it and see what happens.

And so I went over there.

I flew over to Poland, a small little town in Poland.

It wasn't like a big metropolis city.

And you could say culture shock kind of kicked in and definitely did.

I saw a lot of things that I never thought I would.

Um just, you know, how how life is over there in Eastern Europe.

But it also kind of opened my eyes to what all is out there, and it also opened my eyes to how much limits I had put on myself, you know, as a young man and a teenager, of just you know, being identified as an athlete.

And that experience kind of just kind of fed my hunger for more.

And uh, long story short, ever since that trip to Poland, I've I've kind of never stopped.

I've been to, you know, five different countries in Europe.

I am now a European citizen.

I applied for my Italian citizenship through my bloodlines and my family.

So I guess you could say I'm Europeanized.

And the story, the story I like to tell people about that because I don't I don't think it's an inspirational story at all.

But what I think it you know can teach people is the decisions in your life that you're uncertain about, and maybe that are gonna require you to step out of your comfort zone.

Those have the potential to really help you realize your true potential and your true purpose as an individual.

And until you are willing to step out of your comfort zone, you're never gonna realize your potential.

And that's just the bottom line.

And that's what I tell, you know, young people here that I coach now that have aspirations to play in America, that have aspirations to, you know, go go overseas as well to work.

Take the risk, take the risk, because the worst thing that can happen is that you fail and you come back and you regroup, and then you take another risk.

But there's so many people who are get comfortable in their in their own lives, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but there are people who are in comfortable situations, who are living life, you know, pretty pretty well off financially, but in the back of their minds, they know that they're not fully fulfilled because they know that there's more out there, they know that they're capable of more, but they're just afraid to fail.

And that's something that if you can get over that, that you know, that fear of failure, and just step out of your comfort zone when opportunity comes, you're gonna create so much fulfillment for yourself, and you're gonna create so much stories that you can use to help inspire others to do the same.

SPEAKER_00: Wow, man, that's pretty powerful stuff, dude.

I was sitting here and I'm just I'm thinking in something you were talking about, you know, a few minutes ago, and I and I couldn't help but think how awesome it is, and and so true it is, is the fact of getting outside of your comfort zone.

And I think so many times, all of us, it's comfort, comfort is easy.

Comfort is something we know and stuff, but but to get outside of that comfort zone is when you can actually finally realize what your potential is.

And especially I was thinking just related to travel and stuff, of getting outside your comfort zone, of going to a totally new country.

And and I thought it was pretty awesome talking about kind of almost opening your eyes to the fact of how much more to the world there is, you know, because even, you know, it doesn't matter how much TV we watch or how much we we learn and and know about all these other countries in the world, if we're still here in the same, you know, within the same, you know, city limit signs all the time, that's that's what becomes our world.

Yet to travel outside of those boundaries and give us the opportunity to get to experience something new.

I think, I think it's something powerful, whether you're deciding to move abroad or just traveling in general, I think that just kind of speaks to the to the life-changing impact that it can have on you.

And so I think I think your story right there is a true testament to that.

And I think that's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, as I look back on it now, I kind of can put the pieces together.

You know, I'm not playing football anymore, but I believed, I truly believed that, you know, God kind of led me to football because he knew that this would be my future.

He knew that my my you know, my purpose was to come over here and be a mentor to young athletes, to be To be a mentor to young people.

And football was my outlet.

And I was, without football, I'll tell you, I wouldn't be able to come to Europe.

I wouldn't have been able to come to Europe and I wouldn't have been able to realize the potential.

And that's why I understand too.

I want to also reference and say, I understand too, there are people out there who are have families who have nine to five jobs who are who have their lives kind of set in place.

And they their argument, one argument they could say is, well, I can't, I can't take that risk because I have a family to provide for.

However, I would say that, and this is a kind of a I guess a saying that I like to tell the My Players too, you can't let your circumstance define yourself.

And a lot of people, they kind of rely on their circumstances, whether they're good or bad, and they let that define who they are.

And so I believe that that's something we all can keep in mind.

Despite our circumstances, if there's a will, there's a way.

And you know that more than anyone.

And that's something that I try to preach to people because it's so true.

It sounds cliche, I know, but it's the truth.

It's really the truth.

If you don't, you if you don't make excuses and you don't let your circumstances define your goals and what you want to be and who you want to be, then you're gonna you're gonna find success and you're gonna find that fulfillment one way or another.

And whether that's through traveling and experience other cultures, whether that's you know starting a business, whether that's you know applying for your dream job, there's there's many outlets.

There's many outlets to to achieve that fulfillment and to achieve that potential.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

It's so true, so true.

And it's something you were talking about that I think is pretty awesome and is the fact of what you had said earlier is is realizing, you know, this this thing that sometimes sometimes we wonder why does God allow certain things to happen?

Why does God put certain things in our lives when when it doesn't work out?

Like in your example of football, you could easily sit there and say, you know, when all of that was happening and when you had that realization in college is, you know, God, why did you even put this in my life if it wasn't meant for me?

And and yet everything in our life, you don't understand it, and a lot of times we don't understand it until a long time later to realize how it fits into the puzzle.

And so, like for you with football, it was to give you that passion because he knew that you would go on to be a mentor to others and you know, and and to guide other young, you know, young football players.

And so I think that's pretty awesome.

And I'm curious, how did it come about then you shifting from from moving over to Poland, playing football to to where you are today, which is now, you know, one of the things that you're doing is, you know, is coaching and mentoring these other younger football players.

How did that come come to be?

SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's a good question.

I would say it wasn't something that happened instantly.

You know, I kind of debated as I was over here in Europe playing.

Do I want to stay here?

Do I want to try to build a life here?

Do I want to go back home?

Obviously, my family was in the States, and so you know, part of me was and is still there and always will be.

But I remember a specific conversation I had with a coach of mine who was also an American, and we were in Italy.

He was the head coach, and we also lived in the same apartment together because that's how it works.

You know, the team kind of takes their import players and kind of sticks them together.

And so I remember we were sitting down one day after practice, kind of going through, you know, the practice that just happened.

And he had been in Europe also for you know 20, 30 years, a long time.

And he kind of just asked me, he said, Yeah, Zach, you know, what's your plan?

And I said, What do you mean?

He's like, Yeah, what's your plan?

Do you want to make this, do you want to stay here or do you want to just you know play a couple years and go home just for the experience?

And you know, it really made me think.

He's like, huh.

At the time I was about 25 years old, and I said, Yeah, that's actually this is the time where I need to start deciding.

And, you know, so I kind of pondered that question, and he said to me, you know, after you know, we talked about a little bit, he said, you know, Zach, eventually you gotta make a decision.

Because the longer you wait and the longer you kind of just kind of play year to year in Europe, the more you know far behind you're gonna put yourself when it comes to eventually going home, if that's what you want to do.

And so I just seemed, I said, you know what, it was in 2015 I said, you know what, I'm gonna I want to do this.

I wanna, I wanna come over here, I want to stay here, I want to continue doing what I'm doing, and which was playing at the time, and I want to try to build, build something.

And that that I would say that was a you know, it was a good decision that I made it, but one of the mistakes, the biggest mistake I made was I didn't really plan for the future after I was finished playing.

You know, at the time it was okay.

I was playing football, providing for myself.

You know, I had enough, I was living well, enjoying myself.

But, you know, there came a time where I was done playing and I didn't really take the time to set myself up afterwards, meaning I didn't really create a new identity for myself.

And that's something else that I tell players who, players in Europe, every time I get a chance to is have a plan B.

It's very the power of a plan B.

A lot of people say, yeah, well, plan B will distract me from my plan A.

But at the end of the day, it's I I believe it's the total opposite because eventually, like I said, for me, with my plan A was going to the NFL.

My plan B of going to Europe kind of fell on my lap.

I got lucky in that aspect.

However, I think a lot of people, they go through, they go through times where they say, okay, this is what I want to do, and that's all I want to do.

But then when they fail or they're not able to do it anymore, like all athletes who can't play forever, then they're left in a situation where they're searching to find their next identity and their next purpose.

So I think number one, God put me in this situation, like coming to Europe, not only to impact others, but to kind of eventually come to that realization that, hey, you need to create a new identity for yourself.

Because football is what you do now, but it's not going to be what you do.

It's just an outlet for my ultimate purpose for you.

And I have to, you know, and it was my job, and it still is my job, to kind of recreate my identity, find new outlets outside of sports to still have that same impact.

Because, and I, and I know now that I'm capable of much more than I had once thought.

And that cape, those capabilities are still developing daily.

But like I said, and like you said about putting the pieces together, it's so it's so amazing how you can look back and kind of see how, you know, it seemed like there were points, points in my journey where I thought, okay, I'm hitting the breaking point, whether that's mentally, physically, financially.

And right before I was about to hit the breaking point, I, you know, God provided something, whether that's a little bit extra money, you know, whatever it was, to get me through.

And now I look back and I say that, and I see that he was putting me in those situations to help me realize that, you know, if I put my trust in him, he will never let me fail because he has his ultimate plan for me will prevail in the end.

And that's something even I use now when I, you know, when things aren't going well, and uh I feel like, you know, maybe rock bottom could be coming.

I just remember those moments that I've been through, and it helps me, you know, to keep the faith.

And I'm so thankful for that because it's about growth.

Life is about growth, and these moments that you go through in life will help you grow.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Now, now I'm curious.

At some point, you took this leadership role, which which I can see as playing quarterback as kind of, you know, the the leader of that team.

You took that to the workplace because after football and stuff, and after you finished that, did you start then working in other type, you know, careers and industries outside of football?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.

And yes, I remember I was I had to learn German, you know, being here because that's the language that the working language, you know, everyone speaks English more or less, but you know, when they're in the workplace, German's the official language.

So I I learned, you know, I was able to learn German within a few years.

And my first job here was it actually worked.

I'm studying now, I was studying at the time as well.

I was working in a shoe store in the mall.

And then that was, you know, one side of it helped me because I was able to, you know, even become more fluent in my in in German, so it prepared me for my next job.

But at the same time, it was also kind of a moment where I said, Wow, okay, this uh this lack of you know initiation and not planning for your your future after your playing career is real and it's here.

And you put yourself in this situation and now you gotta you gotta fix it.

And so that was also a wake-up call for me.

And so I worked there for about two, no, not even about a year.

And um I continued to coach too.

So I was I would my second job was a youth coach, I was coaching I was also working in the schools with children, teaching them flag football.

And then my second job, I was lucky enough, I got a job as a fitness trainer.

So fitness is something I've always been, you know, excited about even after my playing career.

And so I kind of just kind of transformed away from football and more into the the fitness, the fitness realm.

And I'm also thankful for those jobs because they've given me, they've really helped me, like I said, learn a new language.

And now this is, you know, I hope that this line, you know, learning the German language will help me in my future here in Europe as well, you know, being fluent and in it as well.

So I think that was a time for me where it was definitely tough, no doubt about it, because you know, I knew I was capable of more.

I knew that, you know, I was better than I don't want to say better, but I knew that I was capable of much more.

And so I knew, but I just knew that I needed a plan.

And that's something that I was lacking at the time was a plan and a structure.

And that's kind of what gave me the inspiration to start this small leadership.

Write this book that I've written and this leadership strategy, which you know I I use with my with my young athletes, and I hope to use in the future with people who want to develop their international, I call it intercultural leadership strategy.

Because one thing I noticed living in all these countries is that leadership and effective leadership is different everywhere you go.

It's not the same, you know, culturally, you people have to adapt leaders, effective leaders have to adapt to their surroundings and adapt to their followers, you know, what they do best and what they need.

And everyone is different, you know, each individual is different, each individual has different ticking points, and it's important for effective leaders to take the time to observe and understand those ticking points so they can best realize how to lead whatever group and in whatever place or whatever country they're leading.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

So now tell me, tell me about what this small leadership concept is.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

Yeah, so it's it's it's kind of, I guess you could say it's it's my summary of everything I've learned in the past nine years being being in Europe and all these different countries, and how I kind of had to adapt myself and recreate myself within the different countries I was I was playing and coaching in in order to best reach, breast reach my following.

And so what I did is I used a you know, a Swiss Army knife.

We all know what a Swiss Army knife is, it's a tool that's very adaptable.

And so I kind of use that as a metaphor for how effective leaders can create their own identity and their own personal foundation, is what I call it, a personal foundation.

So what's what's important is that you develop tools, and by tools I mean skills such as listening skills, communication skills, observation skills, things such as these that are going to help you relate to people from all backgrounds and from different cultures.

Because the world we live in today is very globalized, it's you know intercultural, uh mixed.

And I believe that we have to focus more as a society on acceptance, accepting people for who they are, and then reacting and adjusting our leadership strategy in order to get the best out of each individual.

And that's kind of what small leadership is about.

It's based on a Swiss Army knife.

However, I use the analogy sensible, worldwide, adaptable leadership.

And by sensible, I mean you have to be able to feel people, you have to be able to read people.

You know, when you meet someone, not just talking to them, but listening to them.

You know, a lot of people, what I notice, we talk, you know, create small talk with each other, but we don't truly listen all the time.

And the ability to listen is something that I believe is one of the most powerful people skills that one can develop worldwide, because like I said before, with society we live in, we have to learn to work with each other and not constantly criticize one another for our differences or shun someone because they don't believe the same thing as we do.

And then adaptable.

We have to be able to adapt to our surroundings and the people that we're dealing with.

You know, a lot of people who I would say ego gets in the way of leadership nowadays because people have maybe achieved a lot uh in their field, maybe they consider themselves experts.

However, you know, I use the example.

This is a funny, funny example.

I uh I was playing in Germany, and there was an American coach who was, I believe he coached high school or college in the States, and he was very successful, he won multiple championships.

So he knew football and he knew the game.

And I remember he was in Germany and he was coaching on the opposite sidelines, and he was the whole game screaming and yelling at his players, telling them, you know, do this, you're not doing this right, this is wrong.

However, you know, it was clear that he knew what he was, he knew of the game of football, but he didn't know how to connect with his players in Germany because he didn't understand that those players, they a lot of them just started playing football.

You know, it's not like in the States where, you know, you grow up playing the game.

A lot of them were, you know, beginners and they needed to be taught like that.

And he obviously, you know, didn't realize that.

And despite the success he had in America, it was the total opposite in his new environment.

And, you know, that's something that, you know, I think gets lost.

A lot of people don't have to remember that people are different and you have to adjust to the environment you're in.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.

And and as you're talking about this entire swall leadership concept, I was sitting here thinking to myself, it sounds to me like something that is applicable not to only somebody who, you know, is is leading a company or an organization or thinks of themselves as a leader, but just a concept to make you a good person.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.

Yes.

Yes.

That's exactly that's one of the reasons uh I think that's the motivation behind it.

You know, you can call it a fault as well for me.

I've always been the type of person who, you know, I want to be liked by others.

I want people to, you know, feel comfortable around me.

And I believe that, you know, adapting this strategy can help you not essentially be liked by everyone, because you know, there's always people who will resent you for whatever reason, but the people you work with and the people you're dealing with and the people who you want to impact, how to reach them and how to make sure that they're the ones seeing you as a mentor.

And that's something that I feel that this strategy and this concept has really helped me kind of just focus my attention on okay, I need to number one, look out for myself and lead myself as a person.

And by leading myself, I'm gonna be developing these skills which will then allow me to lead others in an effective manner.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

I think that's awesome.

Super awesome.

No, I'm curious, somebody listening and they're they're interested in learning more.

How can they learn more about this?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm gonna have I'm having a book.

It's coming out, uh, it will be published in the fall.

And so my book will be available on Amazon and in stores in the UK just now.

However, anyone who's interested, they can send me an email either at my email address at zak.swall leadership at gmail.com or on Instagram, shoot me a message, and I'll send you a free digital copy of the book if it's something you're interested in.

And also my website and blog at uh swall leadership.org slash blog.

You can also learn more about the concept and other topics that you know I write about.

SPEAKER_00: Awesome.

Awesome.

Well, I'll be sure to definitely leave all of your information in the show notes.

Because I do, man, I think I think what you're what you're talking about is something that all of us can benefit from, you know, and and even if we feel like we're doing it, sometimes it helps to have a reminder.

And yeah, man, so I absolutely love this entire concept.

And and I also though I have to tell anybody, you know, if if you want a new blog to follow and read, I definitely recommend checking out your blog.

And uh some of the stuff that you you've written, I was actually actually uh reading it uh this morning, preparing for our interview here on the podcast.

And the stuff that you write, man, it's not just like um an entertaining blog or something, it's very thought-provoking.

And and I actually thought, if you don't mind, I wanted to ask you about one of the uh the blog posts you had written, kind of you know, closing out our conversation today.

And and that is this this question of instead of asking yourselves like why, why are we here?

What are we meant for?

It's to focus on who we are, focus on right now.

And I just I found that blog post so insightful and uh was kind of hoping maybe you could could share a little bit about that that that blog post to you know somebody listening to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, thanks for that, by the way.

I really appreciate you saying that.

Yeah, this blog post was one of my recent ones, and um I remember I was actually home in California in San Diego where my family currently live.

I was visiting, and I remember I went to the beach with my dog, and I was just kind of sitting there and looking at the ocean, and it kind of just I kind of got in sort of deep thought, and I just kind of thought about you know everything that was going on in the world, and and you know, there's so many people who who are you know into you know the science of you know, how why are we humans here?

What's our purpose, you know, why how was everything created?

But at the end of the day, that's just a waste of time, and you're wasting time that you could be using to live the life that you have.

Because a lot of people understand you know, they know that they're alive, but they don't they don't truly live.

They don't truly live because they're so stuck in, you know, problems, you know, worldly problems, or you know, trying to figure everything out, the science behind everything.

But at the end of the day, you know, you have to be aware that you're living and use this time that on earth, use the time that we have on earth because at the end of the day, we're here for, you know, God says it's like a snap of a finger, a blink of an eye, to the time that we have here.

And so I think we just have I think myself too, I've been in this situation where I've kind of just been thinking about the future of what will be, you know, the problems that I'm dealing with, how am I going to solve them?

But at the end of the day, if we can, and it's very, very it's easier said than done to shift our focus to the now and realize that now is all that really matters.

And that's the only thing we're guaranteed.

And um to just cherish every moment for what it is.

And that's kind of what that post was about, just to kind of realize that help people understand that you know, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why we're here.

It doesn't matter.

We're here.

So be aware of that and live life.

Live life and don't just be alive.

SPEAKER_00: Man, I think that's a perfect ending for for our conversation today.

And uh, Zach, I want to thank you, man, for coming on the podcast and sharing just uh a little bit about your life, about your story and um and about this entire you know concept that you've created and book that you have.

And uh man, it was it was a real, real pleasure to get to to talk to you.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Kevin, I can say this, I can just say the same thing.

I am thankful for you letting me come on here and give me this platform on your podcast, and just just so appreciative of you and respectful for for you and what you do.

And just want to you're you're an inspiration, not only for me, but for others who listen and doubtless you know.

SPEAKER_00: That means so much to me.

Thank you very much.

And I hope to date a pot of inspired you, motivated you, and inspired you.

No matter what obstacle it maybe to take a little bit.