6 Months to Live: An Inspirational & Humorous Look at Life After a Terminal Diagnosis

Now, let me flip the script because that all sounds really sad, and it is.

But then you meet Lee Crompton.

Lee has a sense of humor on a dark subject that I have never heard before.

I have never laughed in an interview as much as I did in this one.

I was not expecting it whatsoever.

And that's what makes today's episode so amazing.

So, my friend, if you could use a laugh, if you could be reminded about how precious life is, all with this amazing sense of humor brought to us by Lee Crompton.

Well, my friend, you just found your place to be.

I welcome you to what is episode 349.

I hope you enjoy.

SPEAKER_00: Yo, are you ready to flip the script on life?

Because those bad days, they're just doors to better days.

And that's exactly what we do here at Great Race and Inspiration.

Your host, Kevin Lowe, has been flipping the script on his own life, turning over 20 minutes of being completely blind.

It's a straight up inspiration, motivation, and encouragement just for you.

So sit back, relax, and let me introduce you to your host, Kevin Lowe.

SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the podcast.

This is, of course, your host, Kevin Lowe, and today I have the pleasure of being in the studio with none other than Lee Compton.

Lee, welcome to the podcast, man.

SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for having me, Kevin.

It's been uh yeah, it's been a while, but thoroughly looking forward to this.

SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.

Me too, man.

Well, I figure the best place for us to start today is I would love for you to kind of give me a snapshot look at life before the diagnosis.

Obviously, that's a big part of our conversation today, but but before any of that came up, what was life looking like for you?

SPEAKER_01: To put it into context, it was September 2020 when I was diagnosed.

So life before that, starting from sort of the beginning of 2020, my youngest daughter was born in the January of 2020.

Then we went down in we went, so that was good.

That's a positive.

Although we were starting to get stories of this mysterious disease that was sweeping the world.

And then in I think it was the March, we went into lockdown.

Yes.

So family life changed from newborn baby in January to all living under the same roof.

Nobody was going to nursery, nobody was going to school, my wife was on maternity leave, I was working from home, and yeah, it was we were all, yeah, like very many other families living under living on top of each other and not being able to go anywhere.

SPEAKER_02: Exactly.

Such memorable times, huh?

Yeah.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: It seems weird now.

It is.

Just looking back on that and going, well, that was you know, because I I go to uh I'm a Bournemouth fan, so I I follow the football or soccer, as you would s as you would say, and um it's just seems weird going to a stadium and thinking there was a time when all of this was played behind closed doors.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.

That was the world we lived in.

Exactly.

And and what's crazy is that I mean, it it seems like in a way that was a really long time ago, and it really wasn't.

SPEAKER_01: It does.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Well, so kind of into the context of our real like conversation today, I guess my next question would be during this time, what would first alert you that maybe something wasn't quite right with with you, with your body?

SPEAKER_01: Well, I I always thought I had raised glands.

I always seemed to have a swollen neck.

And I'd always blamed it on the kids.

So yeah, to put it into context, like I say, I had a a newborn baby, and my eldest was three at the time.

So they were always coming home from nursery with snotty noses and and what have you.

So I blamed it on them, unfortunately, that um that was why I was always a bit kind of raised glands and a bit bunged up or what have you.

And then, of course, like I say, we went into lockdown and nobody was going anywhere.

We weren't seeing anybody.

And I thought, why does my neck still feel sort of puffy?

Went to the doctor's, which was difficult because you couldn't really see the doctor in those days, because again, nobody wanted to go and venture out, particularly not to medical facilities.

And so anyway, long story short, they took a biopsy of this lump or puffiness, which came back inconclusive.

Took an ultrasound, they said, Yeah, it looks looks okay.

Yeah, I've got a lump there, but looks it looks as though it's not a problem.

What do you want to do?

And they said, Well, you've got your option.

I said, What are my options?

The options are we could leave it and just keep an eye on it because it looks it looks okay.

We could take another biopsy, although if this one's come back inconclusive, the chances are the other one will come back inconclusive, or we could go straight to surgery.

And I was okay, for a man who often, you know, will check with his wife what flavour of pizza she wants from the corner shop, just to double check, for whatever reason, I decided to say, Well, I'll, you know, just go to surgery.

And he said, Are you sure that he's a bit drastic?

And I said, Well, surely, because I think at that point they'd measured it was like seven centimeters long, if you imagine up the way in my in my throat, in my neck.

SPEAKER_03: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, surely it's only going to get bigger, isn't it?

And they said, Well, probably, yeah.

I said, Well, let's just take it out then, because, you know, it's going to be more of a pain to get out at a later date.

And they went, Well, if you're sure.

And and COVID at that time, nobody was going to hospital.

So they said, we could get you in quite quickly because no one wants to go to hospital.

And that's probably what saved me.

So went and had the first operation, and I won't lie, Kevin, it was other than obviously having my throat slit, it was quite pleasurable.

I at the time at home, I wasn't, you know, we couldn't go anywhere.

We were sort of going stir crazy, the kids weren't sleeping, we weren't getting a full night's sleep because we had a newborn baby.

And actually, going into hospital and lying in the bed in the peace and quiet and having someone bring your food to your bed and just eating it there and listening to podcasts and watching the television was actually quite nice.

Other than the other than the stitches.

Have you have you ever seen the film Highlander?

No, I haven't.

No.

Well, for those of you who have seen the the film The Highlander, there's the Kurgan.

And he's got he's got like his neck stapled together with safety pins.

And that was kind of what I was But other than that, you know, the pudding was very nice and whatever.

And and and the guy, so I had the operation, and the the doctor came round, surgeon came round, and he said, Yep, he said it was uh, excuse my French, he said it was a big bugger.

He said it was seven centimetres long.

He said, But I've had it in the palm of my hand, and there's a few dense bits we probably need to look under the microscope, but nothing to worry about.

No, okay, fine.

So I went home to recuperate.

And um, I mean, so I'm I'm making light of this, but it was a fairly big operation when you're having your, you know, your throat cut.

And that was that.

We'll be in touch.

And uh three weeks went by and I got a phone call.

Can you come in for the results?

Which in hindsight I should have realized was an oddity because they didn't really want you going to hospital unless it was absolutely necessary.

And the hospital that I had the operation in was about 45 minutes from here.

So my wife said, Would you want me to come as well?

And I said, No.

I said, It's absolutely pointless.

I said, one, we've got to get the two kids in their car seats and over to the hospital, which is just gonna be a pain.

Two, they probably won't let you in anyway because you weren't allowed to go in with anybody.

And three, if it had been because my dad unfortunately passed away when he was in his mid-50s with with uh with bowel cancer, and when he had his diagnosis or when he had his you know test, they were straight back like the following day.

You need to come in.

I said, It's been three weeks.

I said, if it's anything serious, they would have let me know by now.

So I went into the lion's den on my todd.

And yeah, I knew as soon as I walked into this room that something was up.

There was that you just tell by the body language and the the doer look on this as a good Scottish word, a do-a-the doer expression on their faces.

And there was a middle-aged woman, and I'm thinking, why is she here?

Because she doesn't look like a student nurse.

And it turns out she's the Macmillan.

So over here, Macmillan is the cancer charity.

And yeah, I just remember, I don't remember much of that conversation other than um him saying, Yeah, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.

And he kept shaking his head and said, You've got a young family, haven't you?

I was like, Yeah, yeah, why?

Well, sorry, what's what's happened?

So at that point they didn't give me time scales, but they said, Yeah, you've got anaplastic thyroid cancer.

Here's a leaf here's a leaflet, here's a booklet.

There's nothing about anaplastic, it's so rare what you've got that there's no I don't know why I'm laughing.

It's um it's so rare that what you've got that there's no information about it in there.

There's three main types of that of thyroid cancer, which if you get that, they're quite curable.

I think there's a 90% success rate, other than what I had, which was anaplastic thyroid cancer, which in the UK there's about 70 cases a year.

It's really rare, it's really aggressive.

At that point, they didn't give me time scales, but yeah, you know, Glasgow.

So I live near Loch Lymond, and I think we mentioned before, when I was chatting to you before.

And um, so yeah, Glasgow's the the nearest sort of main hospital.

They'll be in touch, and that was that.

So I went and we'll we'll do a CT scan now.

So I'm waiting, you couldn't get a signal in the hospital, so I'm waiting, thinking Gemma has my wife.

Gemma is gonna know something is up because I was in for the nine o'clock appointment in the morning, thinking I'm gonna go in, and they're gonna go, yeah, absolutely fine.

Thank you very much, go away, and I'm gonna be back in the car, back in the car park for 10 past nine and and home for sort of 10 o'clock.

Well, it's now 10 o'clock, and I'm waiting to have a CT scan, and I can't, I haven't contacted her.

I thought she's gonna know, she's gonna know.

So yeah, I ended up having to ring her from the car park.

And my mum, who's down in Dorset, she lives 450 miles away, and say, This isn't good news.

And I knew it was bad, but I didn't really know how bad, because they said, well, you know, Glasgow will be in touch, and and that was where it was kind of left.

Have a CT scan and await further instruction.

SPEAKER_02: Wow.

How fast life can can change, you know?

Wow.

So talk to me, I guess.

I'm I'm curious to know.

I mean, what happens next?

SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I got the phone call the next day.

You need to come in this afternoon to Glasgow.

And I remember we were, I think we were taking the kids out in the I think you were allowed in the park in those days for half an hour.

So we got the phone call, can you come in this afternoon?

And they gave me the results of the CT scan.

And they said, look, again, very grave faces, yeah, it's uh the CT scans come back clear.

I'm like, that's that's good news, isn't it?

And they went, Hmm, no, not really.

And I didn't realise that a CT scan, I think uh again, don't quote me on this, but a CT scan can only pick up things bigger than two millimeters, I think.

Okay.

And they said it's evidence that it's been trying to get into your bloodstream, so we predict that you're riddled with it already.

It's it's you've got and you've got four to six months.

Six months, the the exact words were six months would be a positive outcome.

And I remember looking at my wife's eyes, because again, we're we're we're wearing we're all wearing face masks and just the sort of terror, the dread in her eyes.

And then they said, look, we need to get you in for this operation and yeah, you're gonna get you're gonna have to have a COVID test.

But quite frankly, it doesn't matter.

If you've got COVID, I'll just have to get the my team to take extra precautions because you need to come in on Monday and we need to get this operation done.

And I'm saying, well, that that's right, okay.

So there is a chance that that I could be, you know, for want of a better expression, cured.

And they said, no.

No, what happens with it's like I say, it's it's like wildfire and it and it it develops very quickly.

And so the first operation was to take out the one side of my thyroid that had this lump on.

So I still had the other side of my thyroid at that point in, still in my neck.

And what they said was it because it expands so rapidly, that it could impact on your breathing, it could impact on your swallowing, and it makes the the end pretty nasty.

So, yeah, that second operation was not to save me, but just to make the end less grim.

Which is, again, mentally, that's quite a leap to go right, okay, because I'm having the literally the same operation, and it wasn't quite as like I say, the first time I was like, I was just quite nice to have a couple of nights away from the kids and a decent night sleep.

The second operation three weeks later, yeah, wasn't wasn't quite as uh I wasn't looking forward to it as much.

Not that I was looking forward to the first one, but you know what I mean.

I'm I'm trying to, like I say, I'm trying to make uh light of it as best I can, but so yeah, that was um that was the second operation I had, and it was um it was awful because I was in a different hospital, which is much busier.

You're on the 12th floor, things didn't go because obviously they'd go in the same scar literally that they've just been in three weeks ago.

So the first one hadn't really healed properly.

So there was I mean that felt like I've got sort of well, first of all, you go into an operation that you know is not going to save you.

Second of all, it it was more painful.

I I found it really you had like blood clots on the on the chest where they're going in again, and it was like say swallowing barbed wire, and it wasn't as as plain sailing as the first one.

So of course I've only got that's my benchmark.

So I'm now going, well, something's gone wrong.

And of course I'm on high alert anyway.

I'm very, very anxious, I'm very, very agitated because I've been told you've got four to six months to live.

So like I say, when I was when I was told that, I thought, right, well, I probably might get to see Erin's first birthday in January, but I'm probably not gonna get to see Izzy's fourth birthday in March.

And that was just heartbreaking.

But went in for the the second operation and um and yeah, it was just it was awful.

And I remember I write scripts, Kevin.

I don't know if I'd have mentioned that before, but yeah, I work in construction, but I write, I write TV scripts and and dark comedies.

And this is definitely going, this moment is definitely going in there somewhere.

Well, two moments, actually.

I'll tell you, I'll tell you two moments, because I've actually I was actually at the hospital this morning, which we'll come on to.

But the guy comes around, the the nurse comes around with the clipboard and says, Right, Mr.

Crompton, uh, could you tell me on a scale of naught to ten what your pain is?

He said, naught being like no pain at all, and ten being excruciating.

And I'm there, I'm in the depths of despair, I've been told I've got like months to live.

I feel awful.

Like I can't swallow properly every time I'm like cough or whatever.

Like it's convulsions.

And I'm like, I really, I really don't feel very well at all.

I don't know, I think I'm probably I'm probably at least a seven.

And he and he looks at me up and down.

I went, hmm, I'll put you down as a three and walked off.

So yeah, there's looking back, and at the time I'm mortified because I'm thinking, I'm making a big fuss here.

So I didn't ring the like all you know that you have to ring the bell at night if you want anyone to come to your aid or you know, plump your pillows up or just get you a glass of water or whatever.

I didn't touch it because I'm like, I'm obviously making too much of a fuss, and I don't want to be a burden on anybody.

So I lay there, like just going, well, you know, if I don't wake up in the morning, so be it.

I'll I've gone off in my sleep and you know, and I it's a reminded me of another story this morning, which is so I went when we were chatting earlier, it was four years yesterday.

So spoiler alert, yes, I'm still here.

Four years later, I'm still I'm still here, and I went for my oncology appointment this morning at the same hospital that where I first was was diagnosed, told the time scales.

And it reminds me, and I have a little uh wry little smile to myself now, as does my wife when she comes with me, in that that first morning that when they said you're going to Glasgow in the morning and we got the phone call to go in, we arrived at the hospital with our face masks on, didn't know where we were going.

It was a new hospital to us.

So we wandered in.

Obviously, we've been we've been punched in the gut with the news that I'm gonna die quite soon.

And we're wandering around.

And there's a guy, because again, we're in the depths of COVID, there's a guy at like a fold-away table at the entrance with all the hand gel on, and you've got to squirt your hands before you go in and blah, blah, blah.

And you can see that we're kind of like a bit discombobulated and don't know what we're doing.

And he says, um, he looks my wife up and down and says, Oh, can I help you?

Are you looking for the maternity ward?

And I'm like, No, no, we're looking for ear, nose, and throat, ENT.

And he went, Oh, I'm ever so sorry.

So, yeah, I mean, talk about kicking people when they're down.

Um, not only, not only as uh as you you've been told your husband's, you know, not got long to live, but then one of the porters says that you could probably do with losing a few pounds as well.

So admittedly, she had not long had Erin, but yeah, it was that moment of no, no, we're not here for the pregnancy maternity ward.

Cheeky.

Yeah.

So um, so yeah, so that was that that was um that was the second, sorry, going back.

I'm flipping between time scales here.

Had the second operation, came out and was recovering from that.

And I remember I went to see Professor Reed and he said, I think we might have been a bit overly cautious about these timescales.

I'm like, okay, I mean, I think six months is probably a bit pessimistic.

Okay, good, yeah.

What what you what are you telling me?

I think it's probably gonna be 12 months.

And I remember coming out of there, punching the air, like I just won the lottery.

So I'm like, this is amazing.

I get to see another, you know, my daughter's grow up for another six months and blah blah blah and a punch in the air.

And it was only like a couple of days later, I went, hang on a minute, the guy's still telling me I've got 12 months to live.

That's rubbish.

But it was twice as long as I thought I was gonna get.

So, you know, it's moments like that when you go, that's just, yeah, I was I was buzzing that he told me I've got 12 months to live, which is just bizarre.

SPEAKER_02: Wow.

Yeah, the whole thing is bizarre.

The whole thing is is and and I guess the question that I want to ask is we obviously know how this whole thing starts.

SPEAKER_01: We see that I've given away the ending.

SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.

It's fine.

It's totally fine because obviously anybody's like, wait, the math doesn't add up here.

The guy's talking to us.

But so I guess the question I am so anxious to find out is after all the hospital stuff is over with, and you go back home, whether it was six months or a year, how do you even mentally handle that?

And even just keep living life.

SPEAKER_01: It's it's difficult because I kept going to obviously oncology appointments every well, it was every month to start with, and every three months, and now it's every six months.

But I should say that, you know, anaplastic thyroid cancer is I think got 95% of people are dead within 12 months.

I think there's there's a handful of people that are lasting three to five years, but they're on cutting edge drugs.

And I remember them saying at the time, do not Google anything to do with anaplastic thyroid cancer because there is nothing.

You won't find anything good to talk about, you know, to to read rather.

There's no good news.

But no, you're right.

When you you you so you come out of that and you're always kind of looking over your shoulder because you've you've survived six months and go, right, well, that's that's the six months.

Are we good?

Are we are we well, I mean, we'll wait to 12 months and when we got to 12 months, well, I mean, if we could get to 18 months, and he still said the same to me today.

If we I mean, if we can get to five years, seems to be like the benchmark.

So I've kind of given up because they just keep kicking the can down the road.

But I would say for the first, it's difficult on a couple of levels because when you've got to six months or twelve months, and it looks like there's a chance that you might have dodged a bullet, everybody wants to know the good luck story.

They they don't necessarily want to talk to you when you're or make eye contact.

It was almost like being a homeless person on the street.

No one really wants to take make eye contact with you because what do you say to the what do you say to the guy who's been given sort of four months to live?

Are you right?

No, not really.

No, I've been given months to live.

So nobody kind of engages with you, but the minute that it looks like you might be okay, people are going, it must be great, must be great news that you've you've dodged this bullet.

And they they you know, they they're they're happy to not talk about it, but that you can change the subject.

You can they can they can deal with that because people don't want to talk about the rubbish stuff.

I was gonna swear then, but I I I stopped myself, Kevin.

So you've got people who've gone, oh that's all right.

Yeah, you've you've turned a corner.

And they because they want to parcel it up in that sort of palatable scenario, if you like.

Whereas and it is, I mean that you're there's the there's a there's a difficult paradox in that obviously I'm happy that I'm still here, but I'm always kind of got one eye looking over my shoulder in terms of, well, am I really okay or is this gonna come back and bite me on the bum?

Or and then there's the whole feeling guilty because I should be punching the air.

And this again, it goes into mental health, but whether you say you should be doing something and you could be doing something, or whatever the the you know, the voices that you tell yourself.

So I should be punching the air because this is what you wanted, right?

You wanted to see your kids grow up and you wanted that bit of extra time.

But the reality is.

For someone to tell me, and and and I I I think I mentioned this before, when I was in it, I almost had like a I had these lists of tasks I needed to do.

So I need to make sure that the boiler was fixed.

I needed to make sure I had, you know, I gave my wife powers of attorney.

We've set up wills, we've set up, you know, Christmas presents and birthday presents for the kids for the next 10 years, or the, you know, the years that I'm not going to be there to do them myself.

And and all this kind of practical stuff, which again is a whole that's a whole conversation itself.

Is is you know, me and my wife went through IV.

We're going off various tangents, Kevin.

I do apologize.

But me and my wife have had IVF treatment, which I thought was a very galvanizing process because you're aiming towards the same goal and you're in it together.

Whereas I found that cancer was actually very divisive because I'm thinking, right, what do I need to do in the next six months to make sure that, you know, my family provided for and as much as as much as I humanly possibly can, that things are dealt with.

And from my wife's perspective, she's like, what on earth am I going to do in six months' time in terms of paying the mortgage and being a single parent with two kids who want their dad?

And so she's kind of thinking about the aftermath.

And I'm going, well, no, no, what about the here?

And now we need to get XYZ done before I pop the clogs.

And it's strange that we'll come on to the podcast that I do, but it'd be it'd be interesting to get her take and do an episode with her in terms of the like the other side of the fence.

Because ultimately, yes, sorry, coming back to your original question, yes, it's great that I dodged the bullet, but ultimately you're saying, Oh, that thing, yes, I know you've looked inside Pandora's box and sort of been faced with your own mortality.

But if you wouldn't mind just shutting the lid, and if you could go back to work on Monday morning and just pretend none of that happened, that would be great.

And it's impossible to do that.

Yeah.

It's, you know, you could it's it's very difficult to just switch that off and go, oh well, great.

I've dodged that bullet.

Oh, I'm gonna live every moment like it's my last.

And I know there are people like who who, you know, have had these you know life-changing experiences and have turned it into a positive.

And I I found that really difficult to do because uh, you know, and there's the guilt of, well, you but you've you've done the thing that you wanted to do, you, you know, but the girls are now four and seven.

But at the same time, the yeah, the the psychology of mentally preparing for your own demise and then not demising.

It's I don't know if d demising is the either than a word.

But I've used it now, so it's fine.

Yeah.

Um it's yeah, it's it's odd, I think, is the best way I can describe it.

And there's certain things, just while I remember this thing, there's certain things that so so my birthday's in December.

So when I had my which you I don't think I forget now, I think it would have been my 47th birthday.

I thought this is gonna be this is gonna be a killer because I'm gonna be this is gonna be my last birthday I'll ever gonna have.

And actually it was fine.

Mentally, I mean.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And then, oh Jesus, Christmas, Christmas with the kids, this is gonna be a toughie.

And again, yes, it was difficult, and yes, it was emotional at times, but it wasn't as bad as I kind of envisaged.

What really got me was putting the Christmas decorations back in the loft and thinking, hmm, I wonder who's gonna get them down next year.

Because it ain't gonna be me.

So I just chucked them up any old how and thought, ha ha, somebody else's problem next year.

But I didn't do that.

But it's it's things that creep up on you that I think that, you know, the mind is a very kind of weird and wonderful creation where you know you can't really predict what's gonna be triggering and what's what's not.

But no, just to just to go work at just to go back to work and pretend that everything's normal is is not is not easy.

SPEAKER_02: No.

And I mean, obviously I know where we are today, you're still here.

And yet when you share this story, I can't help but want to cry myself.

But no, I mean, I mean, it's the honest truth when you when I when I listen to you and I think of the heartache of your wife, of you at times.

This idea, I mean, n none of us want to think about when we're not here.

Especially when it's the idea of leaving our family.

And the fact that we're not supposed to know when we're supposed when we're gonna die.

That's something that we're not supposed to know.

And yet you were somebody who you were given that timetable.

SPEAKER_01: I think there's, yeah, I think there's two things there.

So you yes, I was given that timetable, but I don't think we all none of us think we're gonna die.

We're not none of us are gonna die, right?

It's uh it's always somebody else who's gonna get the cancer.

You know, and you're it's always somebody else who's gonna get hit by a car.

It's always somebody else who's gonna go blind.

It's not it's not gonna be me, is it?

Especially not at 47.

Because we don't, we don't talk about that.

We don't talk about our own mortality because it's awful.

Why would you want to think about that?

And I think it's a very difficult concept to get your head round.

So I know we know we're all gonna die, but until somebody, you know, turns around and tells you, oh, by the way, do you know what?

You've got you've got till probably just after Christmas.

And you go, sorry, what?

We don't we don't talk about it.

You know, it's it's people who go, Oh, I can't imagine what you're going through.

Well, you can't you can.

You can imagine that.

If you're like you, you are doing it now.

You can imagine it, but we all choose not to, and of course we choose not to.

Why would you want to imagine that?

It's awful.

SPEAKER_03: Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: And that's the that's the thing when I was was diagnosed, the thing that, you know, no disrespect to my wife, but it was the fact that we've gone through IVF to to have the kids, and then I wasn't gonna go, I know, and I invented this whole, I hope she doesn't mind me saying, I invented this whole person, Brian, who was gonna, you know, my kids, I don't remember anything from when I was four, let alone one.

My wife was only 40 at the time, you know, still very young.

She's probably gonna meet someone else, and he's probably gonna be called Brian.

He's probably never gonna done a whole day's, you know, a day's work in his life, and he's gonna come into my house and and they might even call him dad, and they're not, he's not their dad.

And like, and I'm and I kind of invented this whole future of of the kids not know well, who's that bloke, you know, in a photograph.

Oh, he he was your dad, or was he?

No recollection of him whatsoever.

And that was just gut-wrenching.

Absolutely gut-wrenching.

And but again, there's the you know, the juxtaposition of that is you know, now when you're late for the play park and whatever, will you just get your shoes on?

Love of God, please just let me do the zip on your coat, or whatever it, or whatever, don't what don't throw spaghetti at the wall, whatever it might be, which is a constant battle.

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

SPEAKER_01: And you kind of have to just remind yourself, hang on a minute, this is what this is what you wanted.

You wanted to see the spaghetti thrown at the wall and the socks being thrown off in a tantrum or whatever it might be.

So there is that this yeah, it's a it's a weird relationship between gratefulness and guilt and anger and confusion.

And I think I'm slowly starting to come out the other side, but it's been it's been a long process.

Of course.

SPEAKER_02: What do the doctors say?

SPEAKER_01: Not a lot.

No.

Like I say, I was there today, and uh they keep saying that um just it was luck.

So what they think the only explanation they can give me, and sorry, so going back, I'm just jumping around all over the place.

So the reason apparently that it took them three weeks to get me the results was that the results came back anaplastic thyroid cancer.

And they said it can't be anaplastic thyroid cancer because one, it's very, very rare, and two, it mainly affects women over 60.

I don't tick either of those boxes, as I hope you've already appreciated.

So it went all round the houses to all these world experts to get a double-checked and triple-checked until they said, it is, it's anaplastic thyroid cancer.

And the only explanation they can give me, yeah, what he said to me this morning, was that it was 33% anaplastic and 66%, I'm gonna say normal in inverted commas, normal thyroid cancer.

And the only explanation they can give me is that the 66% was encapsulating the 33%.

And if it had been another couple of months, then he said we wouldn't be sat here today having this conversation.

So it's pure luck.

So he reckons he said you could have had thyroid cancer, like normal thyroid, again, I'm using inverted commas, normal thyroid cancer, because it's very, it's a very slow burner.

He said you could have had normal thyroid cancer for years and not known it.

And and it was just this anaplastic bit, it was ready to, it was ready to burst, if you like, like alien out of the out of the stomach of um John Hurt.

Um and it was if it had been like another couple of months, then I wouldn't be here.

And that that's the only explanation they can give me is it it's it was encapsulated in the other other stuff.

Wow.

I'm not on any medication, I'm not in any, you know, I'm not I obviously take thyroxine, which is because I haven't got a thyroid, so I have to take thyroxine tablets to replace what my thyroid should be doing, which is a thing in itself, because trying to get those levels right is just can be very difficult and it's can be very exhausting and tiring and what have you.

But yeah, as I was chatting to someone earlier, you're still living with it.

You're still I'm still living with cancer.

I've not got cancer, but I'm still living with the aftermath of that.

But to everybody else, are you the guy who had cancer four years ago and it's all it's all better now?

Well, on the face of it, yes.

But you know, it's left some some visophysical scars and mental scars.

But no, they they they can't really give me any explanation as to why it is what it is.

But yeah, like I say, I I walk in, I'm almost like a minor celebrity.

Oh, hi, Lee, you're still here, still going.

I'm like, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I'm still knocking about, yeah.

Okay, see another six months.

Um I mean, it's it's bizarre.

It is bizarre.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

I mean, coming from my own perspective of my own story of you know, becoming blind and in the neurosurgeon having no explanation for it, I mean, it was a 1% possibility to begin with.

I can say that at some point you have to just figure it was obviously meant to be part of my story and and to focus on moving forward.

But for you and yourself, it's such an interesting, I think you use the word odd dynamic of this whole situation.

And through all of this journey, I think this is kind of kind of segue into your podcast, is uh your mental health when you were alone at night, and I think sometimes it's at night when we can't sleep that sometimes can be the worst with our mind.

How are you?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.

And and uh I always thought that I've had a story to tell, and I always thought I sort of dabbled with the idea of doing a podcast, but then I thought, well, other than say one episode, who wants to hear me rattle on about cancer every week?

But I was very depressing prospect.

Tune in next week for some more dull cancer stories.

I've told you my best anecdotes about the guy with the oh, I haven't told you one of my best anecdotes.

Can I tell you another anecdote?

Why please?

So what I didn't tell you is that part of the um see some of these things you have like a blind spot.

So after the second operation, they then have to give me a dose of radioactive iodine treatment, which I'll try and explain as in as small detail as possible.

Well short, shorter details possible.

Like you you take a radioactive pill and you go inside a lead-lined room, and so whatever you take in does not come out again.

It gets incinerated.

So even the clothes on your back, whatever you so don't wear any posh clothes in because they're gonna get burned.

Just go in in your pajamas or whatever you're gonna do.

And you're in there for, I think I was in there for three or four days, and you lie on this bed with a gaga counter above the bed, and the only people that you see are the nurses who come in twice a day in lead aprons and all the lead garb, and they step forward and they they give you your dinner, and then they step back whilst you to allow you to step forward to get the tray, and then that, and then you have your lunch or dinner or whatever, breakfast, and then you leave it on the side, right?

Other than that, and you maybe say a sweet few words to them then from a distance, but that's it.

You don't see anybody else.

And then so on my second day, so why should I say so I'm in the like the room that's the leaded bit, but there's like a half-height wall, which is where they pass the dinner across, and then on the other side is just like a bit of a lobby where there's a sink and like where my normal clothes are.

So the clothes that I'm gonna obviously go home in because it's gonna they're gonna burn my clothes, and I'd rather not go home naked if at all possible.

So the clothes that I'm gonna wear when I come out are on the other side of this wall.

So this guy comes in and uh, all right, so I'm watching the some like rubbish on the daytime tell.

And he says, Are you alright?

I said, Yeah, yeah, not bad.

How are you doing?

Oh yeah, fine, Jim.

Mind if I clean your sink?

And I said, No, you crack on, mate, you crack on.

So he's washing, he's wiping the sink on the other side of the of this wall.

And then he walks through, do you mind if I do this sink?

And there's like a sink at the end of my bed, right?

And I've got like an ensuite bit as well, which again is lead-lined.

So he comes in and starts wiping this sink on now my side of the wall.

And I'm like, I don't, I'm not sure he's supposed to be in here.

And he's chatting away, oh, what you watched on the telemate.

I said, Oh, I don't know, it's some some rubbish, some daytime rubbish.

All right, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna do your en suite.

And he's wiping down the door handles and blah, blah, blah because we're still in COVID, right?

So we're he's doing all the wiping it all down.

And then I could feel the hairs go on the back up on my neck as I as I'm telling this story.

He comes down the side of the bed and starts wiping the handle.

So he's literally crouched down right next to me under this Geiger counter, wiping the handles of the of the bedside cupboard.

And I'm thinking, I I really don't think he's supposed to be in, but he's a cleaner, right?

So he must know what he's doing.

He knows the because you see the nurses, as soon as they give you the pill, they're off.

They're behind the lead, they're behind the lead screen.

They don't want anything to do with you.

So it's at that point, oh Dave, Dave, he can't be in there.

He's he's he's haycause I think they've given me the highest radioactive dose they're allowed to give me, because they want to blast me.

You can't be in there, Dave.

He's highly radioactive.

And he's like, what, what?

So the nurse comes in and drags my oh he's and so he he goes out and I can hear them talking in the corridor outside.

And he said, Oh, he called me over to see he wanted to show me something on the telly, because I'm laying in bed.

I'm like, No, he's thrown me under the bus, and I know it didn't.

So it turns out it's this guy's first day as a cleaner, and this like a T junction on this corridor.

So the two wards that are on the one corridor aren't lead line, they're not, they're just normal Commonwealth Garden, and you can go in and he's come round the corner, come into the first one, which is me, unbeknownst to him, and just started cleaning.

And I ne I never saw him again.

I don't know what happened to him, but yeah, he was like, he threw me under the I So I often wonder what's happened to poor uh Dave.

But um he was in merrily cleaning away while um because that was the thing.

So when I came out, I had to live on my own.

Well, my mum actually moved up for for a while.

I had to live be on my own for ten days because I'm like the well, you wouldn't know what the ready break man is over there, would you?

But I'm like ra I'm radioactive, so I can't be I can't come in contact with well anybody really, especially not young kids.

So yeah, I was I was still radioactive for for ten days after after coming out, and I'm I'm housebound and and you know can't so goodness knows how radioactive I was at the time that Dave was squatting next to my bed, wiping down the handles of my bedside unit.

Um yeah, poor Dave.

I well I hope he's okay.

What was your original question, Kevin?

Sorry, I forgot.

SPEAKER_02: I have no idea what I asked you, but what you answered was way better than what my question was.

SPEAKER_01: Um I think we were getting into the podcast.

So why was I so yes, the pod I was gonna do the podcast?

Who wants to hear about me bark on about once you've heard my anecdotes once?

You don't want to hear me week in, week out talking about cancer.

So, but what I did have was a lot of people who reached out to me because right, here's the other here's another story.

So I was diagnosed in the September and it got to about the November-ish time.

And I said to my wife, I said, Look, I'm gonna have to put a post out on social media.

And she says, We we can't do that.

It's a very private thing.

I was like, I I get that, but the alternative is we get till after Christmas, and you know, because I don't know how long, you know, out of that four to six months, how much am I complex mentors and how much am I in sort of palliative care or whatever?

That you have to put a post out in the new year sometime and say, ever so sorry, look just to let everybody know on Facebook or whatever, friends and what have you, that Lee's Lee's been taken into palliative care, or worse still, Lee's dead.

And I'm just like, it's not funny at all.

But I'm like, and she said, Yeah, yeah, there is that.

Yeah, you better, what do you mean he's dead?

I didn't even know he had cancer because we've kept it to ourselves.

I said, things could change very, very quickly.

So we made the decision that we put a post out there to to tell people what was happening, as sort of as vaguely as we could.

But of course, that the floodgates open.

And I suppose that's what started.

So the podcast called Mind Cake, and it started about 12 months ago, so maybe three years after I was diagnosed.

But kind of the the genesis of that was so then of course people wanted updates.

So I've I was posting updates every probably in line with the oncology appointment, so every month to start with, every three months, every six months, whatever.

And I had people coming to me saying, you know, you've obviously been through the mill, and that must be, you know, a terrible experience that you've had.

I don't know how you've you know you've been so br brave and so strong and so inspirational, which, you know, I happen to think I haven't.

I just I was just put in a situation you kind of got to do what you gotta do.

But people were coming out with their stories and saying, Look, I'm having I'm having mental health problems.

Have you got any advice of how to sort of get through and how to sort of navigate?

And I'm like, not really, no.

I have a fairly unique backstory, but you know, I'm I'm on, I don't mind saying I'm on antidepressants and I go and see a clinical psychologist once a fortnight.

So, you know, we're all kind of in the same boat, but why don't we let's ex use this as a vehicle to explore, you know, mental health and coping mechanisms and and get some guests on and talk to experts and and just hear people's stories.

And and as you can probably tell from my tone on this, and we don't take ourselves very seriously.

It's you know, it's a quite difficult subject matter, but it's a bit of a laugh really.

We do have a lot of waffle, we go off a lot of tangents, and and I think I find it quite cathartic, just you know, because it's I've I've got a self-interest here.

We'll go, let's try a sound bath, let's try some meditation, let's, you know, I went I was at some B therapy the other day.

I mean, I'd never even heard of B therapy.

And and you know, and I think there's a nice little community that we're that we're building, and and I've found some real kind of solace in in doing the podcast and just connecting with people and building this community and and you know, because I think I had a politician, you're probably not aware of him over over in the States, but he's quite high profile.

He was Tony Blair's sort of director of communications, a guy called Alistair Campbell.

And he managed to get him on the podcast, which is a whole different story, which I won't go into now.

And he was saying, kind of, look, we're all on the we're all on the spectrum, if you like.

We've all we've all got mental health.

Some of us have good mental health, some of us have bad mental health, but it we're all on a scale of zero to ten.

It's just a case of where we are on that scale.

So yeah, I think it's interesting to to kind of explore that and and kind of help each other through.

Because I think part of the thing for me is that it's like anything in life.

I think if if you hear of I think people think that their story is unique and they're the only people that feel like that, and it can feel quite isolating.

And, you know, I know from from feelings that I've had when, you know, if you if you can relate to someone or you go, oh that's how that's how I feel.

I thought that was just me that felt like that.

And all of a sudden you don't feel quite as much as a, I don't know, a weirdo for want of a better expression, or a social leper, because you go, Oh, right, I thought I was alone in this.

And and the fact that you can, you know, share your stories and and have people who who can empathize with that and and understand is it's it's very powerful, I think.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.

I have two questions.

First question Your wife was hesitant about you posting on Facebook.

How did she react when you said, honey, I want to do a podcast?

SPEAKER_01: That's fine.

She doesn't listen, so it's I can do I can do what I like.

So I should say that episode two is kind of my story and and pretty much, you know, everything that I've said on on your podcast in terms of what happened and why I'm doing it.

But the rest of it is very much, like I say, speaking to other people, it's not it's not wrapped up in in cancer or doom and gloom.

It's not it's very upbeat.

There's some difficult subject matter, but me and Paul, who's the co-host, you know, have a good have a good laugh doing it.

And yeah, I don't reveal other than that episode two, I you know, it's not, it's not something where I'm navel-gazing and and harking back to those those terrible times four years ago.

I think it's quite a positive.

And she sees that.

She sees she sees my face light up when I'm done.

I'm sure you're the same, Kevin.

When you when you when you're speaking to certain people and it just getting to know people and finding Finding out their stories, there's something very, very privileged about that when you when you know you can just I've met people and chatted, well like your good self, who I would never have dreamed of.

You wouldn't you know work in the same well, not in the same country, but the same circles, the same kind of, you know, whoever it might be.

And I think there's something very special about that.

And so, yeah, I think she's she's probably changed her mind from someone who was probably quite not skeptical, but just maybe slightly concerned to start with.

She can now see that it's kind of, you know, it's it's grown into something that's, you know, a positive force that that is really quite to be celebrated.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.

The name of the podcast, the Mind Cake.

What what does that mean?

Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_01: It depends whether you ask me or whether you ask Paul.

unknown: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: So I came up with the name Mind Cake for reasons I will go into later.

Paul liked, yeah, yeah, I like that because it's like the mind is like a cake with all different layers, and we're, you know, we're all different layers of the mind, and we're all different kind of flavours, and we're all different types of the same cake.

And I'm like, no, no, you you're you're you're really looking into this far too much.

We have a comedy character.

We have a comedy character over here called Alan Partridge.

I don't know if you're aware of Alan Partridge.

I'm not.

Uh no.

Um, if you see if you can find some clips on YouTube because he is hilarious.

He's still going now, he's been going for years.

Steve Coogan, are you aware of Steve Coogan?

SPEAKER_03: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: The actor.

Yeah.

He he plays Alan, he's this character, Alan Partridge.

Now, if he if he was doing a mental health podcast, he would call it Mind Cake, because that's the kind of guy that he is.

So it doesn't kind of work if you don't know who Alan Partridge is, but I was like, I big comedy hero mine, it was what Alan Partridge would call a mental health podcast.

So yeah.

It's take which one you want, whether the deep, Paul's deep version or mine was it's just what I should say as well is there is a guy, Peter McVeigh, hello Peter, if you're listening, who is in the bandson album.

He's the the voice.

He kindly did our opening jingle.

And I think this says everything about the podcast.

I didn't give him anything to go on.

I said, Can you just give me a jingle?

Opening jingle.

So he's written the music and sung sung the theme tune.

And it says, all he says is, let's start a podcast about our mental health, and for no good reason why, let's call it mind cake.

And that kind of sums up, it just sounds, I think it sounds quite good.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.

I like it.

I think it's catchy.

And it's catchy.

Who doesn't like cake?

Exactly.

Exactly.

I I agree a hundred percent.

Wow, that is just so very funny.

And yeah, what I love about it, what I love about the podcast is this idea that you can take something that happened to you and you can turn it around in a way to be able to help other people, you know?

And and that's how I know in my own life and my own story, I've been able to to make sense of it all.

Is if I'm able to to use it to help others, then it kind of makes me grateful in a way.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.

I mean, how many episodes are you on now, Kevin?

SPEAKER_02: I am up to 300 and something.

Yeah.

Oh wow.

Are you are you weekly?

I am twice a week.

SPEAKER_01: Wow.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Okay.

SPEAKER_01: And have you found it, like I said, I was a bit found.

Have you found it quite how do you feel about doing it?

I'd be interested to know, like, have you found it cathartic?

Have you found it, you know, meet meeting people with terminal cancer on the other side of the pond?

I mean, again, you must have had some weird and wonderful guests on over 300 episodes.

And so how do you how'd you find it?

SPEAKER_02: Doing these interviews, they they literally light up my day.

I believe firmly that in this life, the things that matter the most are the relationships we make and the experiences we have.

Yeah.

When I get to do this podcast, I combine both of those.

I get to meet somebody, but I get to create an experience out of it by sitting down with them, getting to hear their story.

And for myself, it just lights me up.

It's a lot of work, as you know, doing a podcast is a lot to prepare for it.

And there's some days when I'll be honest, I get out of bed and I'm like, oh no, I have an interview today.

But it's the best thing that happens to me in that day.

Because literally I come out the other side and I just feel like a better version of me.

And I only can hope and pray that anybody listening that they come away the same way.

Because take you, for instance, when you hear your story, you feel sad.

When you meet you, you can't feel sad.

Because when you meet you and you hear you in your perspective, in your sense of humor, in your positive outlook, it's absolutely just electric.

Thank you.

And um, you you're a remarkable guy, man.

SPEAKER_01: Thank you.

I really appreciate that.

I appreciate that.

Because, like you say, as as you were saying, it's connections that you make and uh the experiences you have, and you know, another not quite as entertaining anecdote, but we were the night before, and I think that's the thing is you know, you you kind of have to again, it's something that we all realize, but we don't know to think about that, you know, your life can change on a dime.

And the night before, so on the 15th of September, 2020, we were in a WhatsApp group with my wife's friends talking about doing um like DIY in the hall, and where she sended us links to we could maybe have this type of rug, and you could maybe have, you know, this type of wallpaper and all these like pintrest.

Yes.

All these pins were going backwards and forwards, and we could do this, and we could do that, and that colour schema, and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And we went to bed, gone midnight that night, on the 15th of September, and then by nine o'clock on the 16th of September in the morning, I've been hit with this sledgehammer.

And you re and I remember ruminating that night before going, oh no, I need to send that work email, and I didn't go for my run yesterday, or you know, I've put on two pounds in weight, and and all these things, the day-to-day drama that you get caught up with.

And then you get hit with that sledgehammer, and you realize, oh, oh, none of that actually matters.

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm trying to think I was trying to think of a word that's not a swear word.

I do have quite a screen.

But none of that stuff matters.

None of that stuff matters at all.

And and that was it's a one of the first people we told was Heather, who was kind of helping us with the design.

Because I'm like, well, you're gonna have to, she's kindly sent all these pins of wallpaper and radiator casins and blah, blah, blah.

And then there's been radio silence.

You're gonna have to tell her.

I don't know what you're gonna tell her, but you're gonna have to tell her something.

Yeah.

And like I say, all all that I wanted to do then was be with my kids and with my family.

And and there isn't like so the rest of it doesn't matter at all.

No.

But it takes you to get to that lowest ebb to kind of realize that, or for me to realize it anyway.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

No, absolutely.

For somebody listening today, and maybe they're struggling mentally.

What would you love to say to them?

Advice you have, besides for telling them to go listen to your podcast.

Um what what would you say to that person?

SPEAKER_01: Oh, I wouldn't know.

Don't listen to my podcast if there's no unless you if you're an insomniac and you trouble sleeping, then by all means tune into Mindcake, and you should have no problem dropping off whatsoever.

Um if you if you've got any real problems, then go and see a professional.

But um no, I mean I think it can take many different forms.

If if you're again, speaking to Alistair Campbell, he was saying that he he will grade himself every morning, and I think it's quite an interesting thing to do.

And I started doing it myself now.

So again, one will be blissfully happy, which is kind of unattainable in his world, where without wanting to put my colours to the mask, you know, where Donald Trump was never president of the United States and where Brexit never happened, and yeah, it's unattainable happiness.

Equally ten is suicide.

So he will he will get up in the morning and will say, right, I'm probably about a three or a four or whatever it is.

And he says, if I become a five or a six, then I know I need to do something to try and rectify that balance.

So whether that's going for a walk, whether that's you know, walking the dog or doing some meditation or whatever things work for him to try and I mean uh quite an interesting episode I did was an episode with have you had have you heard of shed therapy?

I have not.

It's not it's nothing to do with garden sheds.

Oh it's an acronym, it's an acronym for, although I'm sure gardening and planting your own vegetables is equally beneficial.

Yes.

But if you don't want to grow your own broccoli, then shed is so sleep hydration exercise diet.

And I think if you can keep those plates spinning, I mean, I noticed that if I've drunk my two liters of water in the day, I feel, you know, so much better.

Diet is huge.

I think plays a huge part in our mental health.

If you put rubbish in, then you know, you get rubbish out and you you don't you don't feel, you know, all this highly processed food and I like I say, I'm not evangelical about it.

I'm not I've not come out the other side of this and gone, right, I am now completely vegan and I don't drink any alcohol and I'm, you know, I'm that's that's not me.

I think you have to strike a balance between, you know, living, but also being, you know, sensible.

So I think depending on if someone cle look, clearly, if someone is feeling depressed, then the first thing they should do is go and see the doctor or talk to someone about it.

Because I think sharing that, going to the doctors and admitting that there is a problem, I think is probably the hardest thing to do.

But if you're just in the, I say just in the, but if you're in the day-to-day, I feel a bit of a malaise.

I'm I've just feeling a bit of sometimes, I mean, sometimes I wake up, for example, and I and I feel just disconnected.

I don't feel like I'm in the real world.

I feel it's very difficult to explain, but I feel that I'm almost like watching my life through a TV or through a lens.

It does it doesn't quite feel real.

And I know then that I didn't sleep.

I went to bed at like half eleven or whatever.

I didn't, I didn't get a proper night's sleep, or I've not, I've not exercised, I've not, and I have to put things in place.

And I think that's going back to the podcast, I think that's the thing.

What we always say is what works for me might not work for you.

So it's kind of a a buffet, if you like, of trying all these different things and encouraging, you know, other people to try different things and seeing what works for them.

Like I would say the one thing that works for me is cold water therapy.

That, you know, you talk about mindfulness and meditation.

I find it very difficult to sit still and think about nothing.

I find meditation very, very difficult.

But plunge into, I was saying, I'm not far from Loch Loymond, plunge into Loch Loymond or ha or take a cold shower.

There's not much else you can think about other than bloody hell, this is cold.

Do you know what I mean?

You don't, you're not thinking about, you're not thinking about anything else.

And it's also, I mean, I feel great.

I feel great when I come out of a cold shower.

And it's taken a while to sort of get myself, shoe myself into that.

But yeah, I I think if there's if there's one thing I could do that I know that if I'm in a bit of a funk is take a cold shower.

But like I say, that, but Paul, the co-host, I've been trying to get him to do cold water therapy for, well, since we started the podcast, that's 12 months, and he's got no chance.

I am not, I am not taking a cold shower.

Um I'm like, but the benefits, I think you really feel the benefit.

No, not interesting.

So clearly not for him.

But no, I think, like I say, professional help, I don't know what it's like in the States to be fair.

Uh uh the problem that you've got here in the UK, we have the NHS, we have the National Health Service.

But the problem is if I went to the doctors now and said, look, I think I've I'm I'm struggling with anxiety or depression or whatever, I would be on a waiting list for probably, I don't know, eight, nine, ten months before I would get to see a professional, which is which is no good.

So I'm, you know, I'm lucky that I've got private health care with work.

So yeah, I I I get to see somebody privately.

But if you're just going through the NHS, then yeah, I mean it's it's I'm trying to think what Alistair Campbell described it as it's not a mental health service, it's a mental health crisis.

Because if it was a service, somebody would be on tap to to help you.

And what he also says, and again, going back to sort of these mechanisms, is it's trying to do things that are preventative rather than, you know, I now feel because of whatever facts, whether they're external factors that, you know, you've been diagnosed with cancer or you've, you know, you've lost your sight, whatever it might be that that's caused your anxiety or depression, or whether it's something internally, like say your diet or you're not getting enough sleep or or whatever, you should be able to see someone.

But that's not always it's not always easy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And like I say, I don't know what would be the situation in the States at the minute.

If you if you decided that you, you know, wanted to see somebody, how how does that work?

SPEAKER_02: I honestly don't know, as far as unless it's just reaching out to your your your own local doctor and going from there.

I I really am not familiar with it, honestly, besides that, you know, avenue.

I mean, goodness.

I mean, anybody interested, look up BetterHelp.

That's what I hear on all the podcasts lately.

Is um is everybody promoting better help?

And I guess it's a number you can call.

But um I think it is a mental health crisis in in this world.

And I mean, just here in America, I mean, it is something that I don't think it's it's not it's not understood and it's not respected enough as an actual problem, you know, an illness, you know, a medical issue, you know, where other things get more attention and it does need more light brought to it.

And I think that's what's powerful about a conversation with you today, what's powerful about your podcast, Mind Cake, is bringing it to the to the forelight to understanding that if you are in a place where you're feeling a little down, you're sad, you're depressed, that you're not alone and it's okay, and there is resources and help for you.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and like so I I've had my own instances where we've, you know, there's this professionals, mental health professionals that have said to me, after two years, you know, how how you how you feeling about, you know, what what's happened and and what have you?

And and like I want, you know, I I'm really struggling mentally to sort of process this and and kind of get my head around it.

And they've turned around to me and said, But it's been two years, Lee.

Do you think you should maybe train change the narrative?

And and you get, oh yeah, no, I just again you go, because you're over that now, aren't you?

You're over that now.

So I say even me, as if I'm, you know, at the pinnacle of mental health problems.

But I'm saying, but even someone who's dealt with terminal cancer has people who are mental health professionals say, should you not be over it by now?

And it's like you say, it's invisible.

If I went in and my leg was falling off, I mean I had a gash in my leg, people would be, Jesus Christ, we need to see this guy quick.

He's he's gonna lose his leg.

But go in with, you know, and I think that's the thing.

Uh as much as not we make light of, we never we never make light of things on the podcast, but as much as it's a serious, it's a serious subject.

And there is a there is still a taboo about it because you can't see it.

Yeah.

And like I say, I I think like you mentioned there, I think if you can reach out to people, and I think that's the first step, reach out to people, whether that's you know, somebody professional, whether that's a friend, and I think you'll find that, you know, there are a lot of people who you go, oh, oh, okay, you feel like that as well.

I mean, I thought that was just me being a bit bit of an oddball, but it's you know, it's it's more common than than you think.

And I think having that, like I say, the safety numbers and and that that community I'm not suggesting that everybody who listens to Mind Cake has got a mental health problem.

I think, you know, there's quite a lot of banter and and just waffle as we call it as well.

And obviously people, the insomniacs who who are desperate to to fall asleep.

They're big, they're part of our huge part of our demographic.

Yeah, I think it's just interesting, like you say, to have these discussions and and try and talk more openly, more openly about it.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.

Well, before we close out, be sure to tell everyone where's the easiest, best places that they can find and listen to Mindcake.

SPEAKER_01: Mindcake is on all the platforms.

So all you Sonyaks out there, you can go on Spotify, you can go on Apple Podcasts.

I think it's on.

But if you go we we have a link tree.

So I think if you just search Mindcake, you will you will find us.

It's like a it's like a brain in a cupcake.

It's a mind in a cupcake.

You'll see it.

We do have, I think we've got about 7% of our listeners are are from the States.

So we've got a few from the other side of the pond over there, but it would be nice to get nice to get a few more.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we just we just like to listen to y'all's cool accents, you know.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I should I should say that yeah, I am from the south of England.

I obviously not sounding very Scottish, although I have lived I have lived up here 17 years, but um not picked up the twang.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, I'd definitely be tuning into your podcast, Kevin, because it's been an absolute pleasure to to talk to you and I've really enjoyed it.

So thank you.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, thank you.

That that means a lot to me, and it has equally made my day.

Thank you.

And for you listening, be sure to check out today's show notes.

I, of course, will leave links where you can find Mind Cake wherever you like to listen.

And most of all, thank you for being here.

Hope you enjoyed.

And of course, more than anything, I hope something said today might help you.

Maybe you're been struggling.

Maybe you know somebody who's maybe been struggling, and maybe you could share today's episode with them or just reach out to them and be a friend.

That means a lot.

So, with that said, this is another episode of Great Grace and Inspiration.

I'm your host, Kevin Millennium.

Get out there and enjoy the day.