Kaley Z's Story of Healing from Trauma and Resilience After an MS Diagnosis

Because what you're about to hear today is a story, a message, a God-given gift that was honestly designed just for you.

And yes, I said you because if you choose to listen all the way to the end, and why would you not listen all the way to the end, you're gonna hear me and today's guest, Kaylee Z, in a really heartfelt discussion about the challenges of life and what they mean, why we're here, why we're doing what we do.

Because when I met Kaylee, me and her, we realized wow, we share so many common bonds.

Even though we come from total different walks of life, we both share this common bond to want to make a difference in your life.

Because my friend, if I can help you, because of what I've gone through, because of the maybe life lessons I've learned, the insight that I've gained, then I say it with all honesty, it's made it all worth it.

Because if I can help just one person, and maybe that's you today, then again, it's all been worth it.

And with that, my friend, I hope that sets the stage for one of the most heartwarming, heartfelt, amazing interviews I've ever done with one of the most incredible people that I have ever been blessed to meet.

Her name is Kaylee Z.

And it's all right here, right now, inside of our 333rd episode of Grit Great.

It is great.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, are you ready to put this crypto light to the better days?

Stop, click back, relax, relax.

SPEAKER_01: What's up, my friend, and welcome back to another amazing interview here on the podcast.

Today I am in the studio with none other than Kaylee Z.

Kaylee, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_04: Uh, thanks so much, Kevin.

I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, I am so excited.

You know, it's it's been so long since we first talked, and I have just been dying to get back in the studio with you so that we could really continue this conversation.

And um, your your story is so powerful for so many different different reasons.

I feel always is the best is to kind of start at the beginning.

And so would you mind kind of giving me a snapshot?

I'm curious kind of who you were before MS ever even entered the picture.

SPEAKER_03: So, first of all, just to make sure our listeners know, you said MS, it's multiple sclerosis, which I know sometimes people can get confused.

Who I was before, you know, Kevin, it's it's such a such a great question.

I don't get asked it often.

I was a kid, I at the time thought was like a normal little girl.

Through my diagnosis, I realized it was not so normal.

All I cared about was school and my grades, literally as a child, as a young child.

And I wasn't very social.

I didn't play a lot.

It was, I had this like intense perfectionist pressure from a very young age.

So that's who I was before.

That was my life before.

SPEAKER_05: I was like, I don't know many like, you know, nine, 10-year-olds like that, but that's how I was.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

Now, were you a perfectionist just with things related to school or like other things even outside of school?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was sort of my personality in all ways.

It just I wanted to do things right.

I had an intense drive to do things right, to do things a certain way.

And was really now, of course, as an adult and doing a lot of deep emotional work and psychological work, I I now understand.

There was a lot of, you know, trying to get approval, trying to be seen, trying to get love was like, oh, maybe if I do it right, maybe if I do it like this, maybe if I get 100%, you know.

So I understand that now.

That was my personality at the time.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.

Out of curiosity, you know, a lot of times as as kids, we have dreams of a future, whether it's a career or what we think adulthood would be like.

Did you have any specific, you know, career aspirations at that age?

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: It's so fun, Kevin.

Like, I'm like, wow, okay, people really don't ask me these questions.

It's so much fun for me.

Um because you know, when you when you do a lot of interviews, you start to kind of it becomes almost routine and you it's easy to feel like you're just saying the same thing over and over.

And this is really fun for me.

So thank you for for bringing a fresh approach.

Anyway, so so yeah, I I always wanted to be a doctor since a very, very young age.

I had wanted to be a doctor.

I spoke about that all the time.

SPEAKER_01: Wow.

Now, what kind of doctor did you have?

Did you have that specific?

SPEAKER_04: No, I wasn't specific yet.

SPEAKER_01: No.

Okay, amazing.

So, doctor.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

I'll just sorry, I'll just say one more thing.

That that vision stayed with me, interestingly, all through high school and up through my first year of college.

And in college, I was pre-med, and it was the absolute, like grueling, uh just the worst.

It's it's torture.

Being in it being in organic chemistry was absolute torture.

And it made me, I had to face myself and be like, why are you doing this?

Like, oh, because I want to be a doctor.

And I was like, why?

Like, do you actually want to be a doctor, or is that just the thing you've literally said your entire life?

I was like, oh, oh, that's literally just a thing I've said my whole life.

I don't, I don't actually want that.

It's like, oh, oh crap.

SPEAKER_02: Like, no one like start from square one.

SPEAKER_03: So I'm just sharing, like, from a young, young child, like all my years through everything.

Even diagnosis didn't like waver that vision, which I'm so surprised by because it could be so easy to think, like, that'd be really hard to get through medical school with a diagnosis.

People do it, you know, but the fact that that didn't even alter my my quote unquote dream.

But then I realized, oh, that's not my dream.

Isn't that crazy that we go like our whole lives sometimes and not realize that, oh, I don't actually want that.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

And I mean, I think honestly, I think that's something I think it's more common than we even realized.

I think there's so many times that we we get so focused on chasing something that we never actually take the time to take a pause and really ask ourselves those deep questions of, but why?

Why do I want this?

SPEAKER_06: You know, exactly.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

Well, well, I would say for somebody who had ambitions of becoming a doctor, as a young child, I mean, you grew up, I would say you grew up pretty quick going through medical issues, is something that I feel causes any child to grow up much too fast.

SPEAKER_03: A thousand percent.

Yeah.

It was in a weird way, I think, you know, my personality, as I shared with you, it was like this perfectionist, and and I was already very much, I took on a lot of responsibility.

So in a weird way, it I was able to step into that quite seamlessly, but there wasn't really much childhood at all.

I had to learn, and I still have to learn.

I still as an adult have to learn how to play.

My son, uh, who's almost one, teaches me that a lot.

I'm like, oh wow.

Like I could just laugh, I could just like feel the wind and just giggle.

Like, okay, let's do that.

So yeah, there wasn't I was immediately making my own medical decisions.

I mean, from beginning to end, you you hit the nail on the head.

I had to grow up very fast.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

Well, talk to me about actually the whole diagnosis.

How did this even come about?

I'm curious to know if you'd been having signs and symptoms for a long time.

I'm just curious how how as a young child you would end up receiving such a diagnosis.

SPEAKER_03: Sure.

So when I was 12 years old, I went to a friend for a sleepover and I woke up feeling sick to my stomach.

And what was causing that feeling was a symptom called nystagmus, where the eyes are rapidly moving right to left.

That was my first attack or exacerbation, as it's called in the MS world.

And at the same time, I could barely stand and it felt like ants were crawling all over my feet.

So now I didn't know that.

I didn't know my eyes were rapidly moving, and no one did.

I just felt so sick.

It was like having a really, really severe flu.

So it was sort of overnight, one moment to the next.

That's what was happening.

And that continued for the next 30 days.

And so I got, I basically, in order to adapt to that, and you and I were earlier before we started recording talking about how you adapt to vision issues.

I just kept my eyes closed for 30 days because if I if I opened them, I would just throw up.

So I was like, okay, that doesn't work out because the room was spinning, right?

My eyes were rapidly moving, the whole world was spinning.

So that was the first 30 days, and that feeling of those ants on my feet moved all the way up my legs to my hips.

So that was constant, 24-7.

This really uncomfortable feeling in my legs.

I needed help to walk.

I was really off balance and weak.

And during those 30 days, really no one knew what was going on.

Of course, the doctors and the medical team knew there was something serious.

I mean, right away I was in an MRI, like things that people wait months to get, they were just like, okay, this needs to happen immediately.

Like they knew something was was serious.

And yet, no one wanted to diagnose a 12-year-old with MS.

So even though these were classic symptoms and classic onset, it was pretty much unheard of.

I was living in California at the time.

There was a record of one other child being diagnosed in the entire state of California.

So it was so unheard of.

And we had to go to doctors.

We were on Skype, which was very new at the time, not great technology, you know, Skyping doctors all over the world to figure out like what's going on.

And ultimately it was just a fear factor.

No one wanted to say it.

And then what do you tell a kid?

Like, we don't know if there's medication that is appropriate for you.

So so that was the first month, the second month, the second 30 days, I woke up.

I had come into a routine.

I got into this routine that I don't know if you can relate to this, but as you know, one is experiencing symptoms and changes in your body, you start to kind of, you need to have a check-in process of like what's working, what's not working, what is today, you know?

And so every morning my mom would, you know, get my brother off to school and then come sit by my bed and we would do our check-in, like, how are my toes?

Can I feel them?

Like, can I move them?

What's working?

Then go up to my knees, and like I would just go up through the body, and the last thing I would do is open my eyes.

And of course, every morning we were hoping that that would be the day that I would see fine and my eyes would not be moving.

And I remember the morning that I opened my eyes, looking at my mom, and I go, You're not spitting.

And it was like, it was an incredible moment.

SPEAKER_05: And then I go, but there are two of you.

And I mean, I'm laughing now.

SPEAKER_03: At the moment, obviously was not funny because I was just like, it was a very confusing, like mixed feeling of this incredible relief I I yearned for and waited for for 30 days to just see normally.

And then I had double vision.

So then I had double vision for the next 30 days.

So I also was very uncomfortable, just kept my eyes closed.

So it's just interesting to share this.

I just want to say this to you, Kevin.

It's so interesting for me.

It feels very different for me to share it with you.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: Because I tell this story all the time, and I'm like, and people are just like in this wonder and awe that wait, how what do you mean you just kept your eyes closed?

Like, what?

And I'm like, oh, well, you know exactly what this is like.

I'm like, this is this is like so weird for me to tell you because you actually get it.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

And not only do I get that, but I also I can't help but think when when you talked about every morning, waiting to open your eyes, seeing if if this eye condition was gone.

unknown: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And I can remember for so very long every morning opening my eyes, hoping that God had healed me overnight.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: And um it's a harsh it's a harsh reality when something you have isn't able to easily be fixed.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: You know, how long would it end up taking for them to finally say that you had this?

SPEAKER_03: From day one, it was 90 days.

It was three months.

Yeah.

And in an interesting way, it I have such an affinity for the doctor who finally diagnosed me because it really was it was him like having compassion and mercy.

Like I needed answers, I needed, you know, direction.

And it was so it was so obvious.

And just no one wanted to say that.

And, you know, I have so much gratitude, even though I've gone a very different direction than the the medical system, you know, over the years and throughout my lifetime.

I'll always have gratitude to him, Dr.

Myers at UCLA.

Always.

That was a life-changing moment.

And he sat with me as a 12-year-old.

He did not sit with my parents, he sat with me and he spoke to me and took all the time I needed.

He answered my questions.

We talked about the future.

He it was it was a treasured moment in my life, yeah, which is weird.

But my diagnosis was a really powerful moment for me.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

Wow.

Knowing what it's like to to be with doctors, to hear this story that you share, that's such a powerful moment because I feel like we live in a society that that we marvel superheroes are the ones on the the football field, you know, the ones on the movie screen where I really look at it like that guy, he's the real superhero.

SPEAKER_03: A thousand percent.

And we we never know the impact we're gonna have on a person.

We never know what that 10 seconds or 10 minutes or four hours, like you just don't know what impact you have on someone's life, especially a child's life.

And the first neurologist I saw, very, very beginning of the journey, without a diagnosis, without knowing much, he took one look at my MRI, the brain scan, and said, You're gonna be in a wheelchair by the end of high school.

Don't plan on going to college.

Like it's like the polar opposite.

In five seconds, you he could have just taken away my life, you know?

I mean, I also know I am responsible for my own life.

So I hope that eventually I would have realized it wasn't on him.

But, you know, what you say has an impact.

It matters and it has power.

And and then, you know, in contrast, I'm so grateful that ultimately the diagnosis came from someone with so much compassion and care and presence because it just it was night and day.

So those moments matter, and you're right.

It's like to me, Dr.

Myers is the superhero, the other guy, like complete dark and have lots.

I I could say some words.

SPEAKER_04: I have some words for him.

SPEAKER_03: Um yes, you're right.

It's it's those people that that are gonna take the time that that realize there's a child here that's gonna change the rest of her life.

Be intentional in your in your words, be intentional in how you show up.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.

I love it.

Talk to me about after this appointment, after finally being told that you have this condition, that I would love for you first and foremost to talk to me about a little bit more about exactly what MS is for those of us who aren't familiar with it.

And then kind of my my follow-up question that I was gonna initially ask was how does your view on life in the future change at that point as a child?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

So MS is an autoimmune disease, which means that the immune system is attacking the body.

And the immune cells attack a protective coating of our nerves in the brain and spinal cord.

And, you know, the brain is a supercomputer of the body.

So if that is being attacked, anything can happen.

So with MS, you know, as I had shared, there were vision problems, walking problems.

I had been paralyzed.

I've had times when all my internal organs shut down, I've had speech problems, cognition issues, memory issues.

So it really can affect anything and everything.

And there are different types of MS.

The type uh that I was diagnosed with is called relapsing remitting, which means that I could have a relapse, which is what what all of you just heard, that that first initial onset of several symptoms, that's a relapse.

And then I could go into remission.

So I could have times of either complete health or better health.

And I really never went back to complete health after that.

I mean, until years later now, thank God.

But throughout the time of my life when I was living with disease, going into remission would just kind of be, I had like my own baseline where even in my baseline, the symptoms that remained were usually weakness, pain, and fatigue.

And pain and fatigue, I always say, are like the absolute worst.

Like you can you can be sitting in pain, no one knows that you're it's like, I would rather be on a morphine drip right now, and the morphine won't help.

I can't tell you how many times I went to an emergency room and they're just like, we can't do anything for you.

And I was like, okay, this is like you're just in torture, you're just being tortured.

So that's MS, and there are different types of MS.

So when people think of MS, they do tend to think wheelchair, first of all, that's very different today.

It's not how it used to be.

There's way more medication available, much more information available.

People live very well today with MS, but again, it's a case-by-case basis and depends on the type of MS.

So that's MS.

How did it change like my vision of the future?

Is that what you asked?

SPEAKER_01: It was.

I was gonna say, I I totally set you up for disaster because I hate when people ask me a double question.

SPEAKER_06: It's totally fine.

SPEAKER_02: It's totally fine.

I do it all the time.

I I find myself doing all the time, like, oh man, I shouldn't have asked two questions just now.

SPEAKER_03: Um, let's see how that goes, right?

So it shifted everything for me.

It shifted everything for me.

I I realized that all I really had was a present moment.

And this idea, this pressure that I was living under was pointless.

I realized that it was so much more important to play, to hang out with friends, to make memories than, you know, sit at my desk and memorize history books or something.

Like, who cares?

None of that actually matters.

And and I'm so grateful for that.

It really, really changed, changed my changed my life and my family's life.

We all started living very differently.

You know, the days that I could walk, I didn't just want to walk, I wanted to do everything.

The days that I, you know, that I had energy, my my mom would pick me up from school and take me to Disneyland.

Like, why would you sit in school if you have enough energy today to go to Disneyland?

Let's let's go have fun, you know.

I started speaking about what I was, what I was experiencing pretty quickly, actually, after my diagnosis, because I started to see that that the lessons I was learning, those around me, those close to me, they were also learning.

They were also living their lives differently.

They were also experiencing more gratitude and savoring the present moment much more.

And so I realized, hey, you know, maybe, maybe this is happening for a reason.

Maybe I have a message to share here.

You know, maybe others could learn from this.

And it's it's not just me and my little box going through this.

And as I shared, I I also came to realize that we have so much more potential than we realize.

And so I put that in there as part of, you know, how my future changed and and how my vision of life and the future changed through diagnosis, because it also taught me how capable we are, how strong we are, we are so much stronger than we realize.

We can do so much more than we realize and have the potential to really make a massive impact.

And just as I'm saying that, by the way, I'm I'm sort of marveling that like that is so much more true today than it was back then, because we didn't have the internet yet.

Like, like those were the days maybe like a year after was like AOL, you know, dialogue.

And like for those of us who live through that, like you can still make a sound.

Like we know what that sounded like.

And if you had to go through that today, it would be so obnoxious.

But back then we thought it was like so cool.

I'm connected to the internet, I'm gonna connect to the whole world.

You know, so today, and you know, you could sit on your couch and in the palm of your hand reach millions of people all over the world.

It's undeniable that one person can change the world.

You'd have to.

To be hard pressed to convince me otherwise.

And somehow back then I got to experience that as a very young kid without the technology that we have today.

And that was an incredible gift.

You know, that changed the trajectory of my whole life.

And and thank God, all those around me, it was really a communal experience.

It was profound, really profound.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I just want to draw attention to something that as you were sharing that, I couldn't help but think of what that story just spoke about you as a person.

Even back then as a child, a teenager.

When I went blind, it took me probably the better part of about 10 years before I came to a point where I felt like God did this, He He made me this way for a reason.

And he knew that I would serve a greater purpose in this world, having gone through what I did than if I hadn't.

And that is when a lot changed for me.

I listened to you tell your story that here you were just this this girl going through life.

And all of a sudden you you have this condition pop up that changes kind of everything.

And yet so soon after, I can't help but just marvel at the person you were then who could so quickly turn it around and figure out how can I make an impact.

SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you reflecting that.

I um I used to say, I used to say that that's just because, you know, kids are so resilient.

And now I realize, no, that's not normal.

And it took me a a while, several adult years to realize.

Well, that's a pr that's a pretty unique response to the situation.

I I think, you know, part of it, I think, Kevin, is I I sort of, even before diagnosis, you'd ask like who I was before.

What I didn't mention was that I was also very, I was very intuitive.

And I came in with a sort of wisdom that is hard to describe.

And even my parents talk about that.

Like I just, I'll say I didn't need a lot of parenting.

I sort of just came in knowing how life was and how life works and what to do.

And so I think I think part of it was what I just came into the world with.

And I really believe that all of us, all of us come in with a certain soul mission, a soul purpose.

And so whether you realize it right away or it takes you 10 years of soul searching, like part of us knows there's a part deep inside that that knows that's kind of being pulled.

Our higher selves are always kind of a magnet in that direction.

And so I think for me it was just much louder.

And so I was able to step into that quickly.

And the other thing is that, you know, for those 60 days, and this is probably something you could relate to, my eyes closed.

There wasn't like YouTube to listen to or, you know, like to find something interesting.

It was just me and my own thoughts and my own quiet.

And in that time of quiet, I started talking to God a lot.

And so before even the diagnosis itself, I had already kind of come to the conclusion that there was, I was going to find meaning in what was happening and that I would at some point somehow see the why.

Right.

A lot of people ask, why me?

And I I wanted to answer that.

I could feel there must be a reason that it's me.

And I think that amount of quiet that most of us don't get.

And when do we ever slow down to pause for five minutes, let alone for 60 days?

You know, people pay thousands of dollars to go on programs to be forced to shut off, you know, to like totally, I don't know how you say it in English, but to like, you know, completely separate from the noise of the world and from technology.

And and I, you know, that was God facilitated that experience for me.

My body facilitated that experience for me.

So I say all that to say that I think that that that allowed me to be more present for seeing the the lessons and the purpose much more quickly rather than having to like wait years to have the hindsight.

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it makes a hundred percent sense to me.

And I mean, it just again, I mean, I just I listen to you and I think the woman's amazing.

I mean, from the from the from the from the get-go, you were amazing.

And and I'm gonna and I'm gonna even prove it that I'm not just I'm not just hyping you up because I read, and correct me if I'm wrong, that at 14, so we're talking two years after this diagnosis, you started your own nonprofit.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Like, so I'm assuming was that like eighth grade?

SPEAKER_05: Uh ninth grade.

Ninth grade.

SPEAKER_01: Ninth, ninth grade, you start your own nonprofit.

SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So again, like, you know, God orchestrated so much for me.

First of all, I just want to say, Kevin, the feeling is very mutual.

I am, I know we'll get here at some point, maybe in this interview, maybe we'll have to do this like four more times to actually get there.

unknown: I don't know.

SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm so amazed by you and inspired by you.

And it's really fun for me to get to talk to someone who I I really there's there's like a kindred spirit there.

So so let me, I'll go back to seventh to eighth grade.

You know, as I said, God orchestrated a lot for me at a young age.

And so I had a teacher, Mrs.

Mary Siegel, and I'm so I'm so grateful that this is coming up in our conversation because I was actually just thinking about her yesterday, just feeling so much gratitude to her.

She she also, right, these many people changed my life at a very young age.

She came to me at one point in in eighth grade and she said, you know, Kaylee, there's something called the MS walk.

And I wonder how you would feel about you know your classmates uh supporting you and show and and showing their care and support for you through the challenges that you're facing by going to the MS walk, you know, for you, by having like a team for you.

And she was so sensitive about it.

Like, you know, maybe I wasn't going to be comfortable without.

Maybe I didn't want, maybe that would just not feel okay or safe.

And I loved the idea.

I loved the idea.

And we also had a classmate, a good friend of mine, Joel, his father had MS.

May his memory be a blessing.

And he, and so that way like it affected all of us.

We were a small class, like 25, 30 kids, very small class.

And so we we participated in the MS walk.

We had a team, and it was really, you know, we thought, okay, like this is just a nice way it was going to support me and make me feel supported, and also, you know, to support Joel's family.

And, you know, a bunch of kids, we raised$5,000.

We kind of went, hmm, that's interesting.

We just actually did something.

That's that's pretty powerful.

It wasn't just like walking for Kaylee and walking for for Joel and his dad.

Like we we actually made an impact.

We helped other people, you know, by raising this money.

And so we did it the next year.

The next year was, I don't remember the numbers exactly, something crazy, like around like like 20, 30 K.

And at that point, I sat down with the the people who were most involved in the fundraising and said, like, maybe we're onto something here.

And and, you know, maybe we can really raise a voice for for youth to know that they can make an impact and to get involved in this cause and spreading awareness and and raising money.

And this could be something that kids across the country could get involved with and learn leadership from a young age, and you learn community service from a young age, and learn how lucky they are to be able to walk from a young age, you know.

And again, a bunch of kids, you know, 14-year-olds went, yeah, okay, I'm in.

And we formed a board of directors of 14-year-olds and would meet on our Sundays and started this nonprofit.

And it's incredible to me that there were such supportive parents, and because it meant them, it meant their houses, it meant their funds, it meant their support, right?

Someone had we needed a lawyer, we needed an accountant, like someone had to volunteer their time.

And sharing this now, I'm like, yeah, of course, why wouldn't they support their kids?

This is the coolest thing their kids could do.

Of course they did.

But you I don't just take that for granted.

You know, people are living their lives, they all have their own challenges.

Now as an adult, and especially as a parent, I know that everybody's living through something.

I don't know, I don't know now looking back.

I wonder what each of those families was living through.

How they chose to all rally around me is is profound.

But yeah, I I lived this like really incredible childhood as a result of going through this.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

So granted, I'm a big emotional crybaby.

SPEAKER_05: Okay, good.

Right there with you.

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01: But I have to say, when you told that story, I I couldn't help but start to tear up when you started it by the teacher approaching you to ask if they could do this.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Again, we talked about superheroes, talked about your doctor.

Let's give it up another superhero is that teacher.

SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.

Mrs.

Siegel, she's a she is a superhero.

Like beyond, beyond, beyond.

Like that's only one piece, but yeah, yeah, she is.

SPEAKER_01: I love it.

Now, is that nonprofit still in existence?

SPEAKER_03: No, it's interesting.

When I when I went to college, it was just like it was too much.

And also I just wanted to just take care of me and like just be in my own world for a little bit.

So so others took over, which was very cool.

Kids across the country took over.

I had some friends took over for a few years, and then these kids in Indiana took over for a few years.

So it's amazing.

Like it lasted for a long time, 10 chapters across the country, but uh no, eventually kind of fizzled out.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think that's that's that's absolutely remarkable.

So we continue on with life, and and I want to draw memory back to what you said earlier.

Was that you had had a doctor at the beginning who told you, if I'm not mistaken, that he said by the time you graduated high school you'd be in a wheelchair.

Yeah.

But so talk to me, I guess, about high school getting older.

Did did your symptoms get worse, get better, stay the same?

What was going on nearing kind of graduation time?

SPEAKER_03: It was always up and down, always up and down.

Towards the end of high school, things did start to progress.

My last year of high school was very different than my experience with symptoms prior, rather than like having ups and downs.

It sort of just was like things just got worse and worse and worse and worse.

And that that was very scary.

Thank God I did, I did actually walk across the stage for high school, and that was a really big deal.

It felt really, really huge to me.

I mean, I dreamt about that for years.

I saw that moment and held on to it so tight.

And as much as, you know, the guy's a jerk, it lit a fire under me.

And so I held on tight to that.

Like I'm gonna walk across the stage.

And yet at that stage of my life, it was hard for me to stand for more than five minutes at a time.

I mean, I was always looking for where's the chair, how can I sit down?

Like I was always conscious of if I'm gonna go somewhere, is there seating?

Like I that that was always really important.

I couldn't walk upstairs.

And my high school campus, thank God we had we had elevators, you know.

But so that was that was like I had to always be conscious of that.

I had to go a different way, avoid the stairs.

So, and there were just a number of symptoms I lived with during that time.

And so actually, I decided, you know, there was still, there was still a bit of a perfectionist in me.

As much as I learned that everything is just this present moment, I wasn't really fully able to shake that.

And so, and then of course I started this organization and convinced myself that it was okay to push myself to the point of illness because I was helping so many other people, because I was making a difference, you know.

So it's okay to kill yourself if you're saving the world.

That was the mentality.

So I was getting worse and worse.

And at that point, I realized I really needed to hit a really strong pause button.

And so I didn't go straight to college.

I took a year off, which was so crucial and a huge gift.

And that's when I started to to finally get healthy again because it was it was headed a really bad direction, and everyone was concerned, my doctors are concerned.

I was obviously terrified.

It was like I basically went like 14 months just progressing.

And so, you know, it was a pretty extreme decision to take a full year, but I feel really necessary and to not have all the pressure of the nonprofit or school or anything.

I knew I was like, I'm gonna go to college and just go right back into like, I gotta get the perfect grades.

I knew all of that was gonna come again.

I was like, I have to stop.

I have to really, really pull back.

And and I'm I'm grateful that that 18-year-old had the wisdom to do that.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.

Is this type of condition is it made worse by stress?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's one of the first things any doctor will tell someone being diagnosed that stress will worsen the disease.

And what's so fascinating about that, Kevin, this is this is where my passion lies today, and this is what I do when I work with others with chronic illness.

The important thing to understand is why.

So why?

Why does stress worsen a disease or worsen symptoms?

And that's for most, for most illnesses, but especially autoimmune or or neurological.

And the reason is because when we experience stress, and that can be emotional distress, that can come in many forms.

Certain hormones get released in the body.

So, especially with stress, the classic stress hormone is cortisol.

There can be others that that also get uh released with stress.

And let's just take cortisol, for example.

So, when cortisol is in the system for an extended period of time, so that's chronic stress, when it's in the system for an extended period of time, there are severe consequences.

So it causes inflammation in the body, it's going to start to break down muscle tone, it changes the way specific organs function, the bladder, the eyes.

So looking back, right, what I was sharing, my walking, my eyesight, right, all of that had been affected.

And when we start to understand, if we start to ask, well, why stress?

Then we understand, oh, because there's a hormonal response.

And so I in my in my 20s got really, really curious about this.

I wanted to understand this.

I want to understand, well, if that makes things worse, how can I reverse that?

How can I reverse engineer this to then heal?

If I know what activates symptoms, can I then figure it out, can I use that same mechanism and reverse it to heal the symptoms, to heal the body?

And turns out, yes.

Turns out that's possible.

And it's really profound.

And so one of the things I just always wish, and I and I understand I've worked through this, I've come to peace with this, but I do wish that doctors could take the time to then teach someone about their body, not just say, hey, stress is gonna make it worse.

Make sure to not have stress as if like, as if anyone in life today could not have stress.

As like you just read one news headline and that's it.

That's killed your whole day, you know?

So it's like, by the way, please stop reading the news to anyone listening.

So, like, that's a stressor nobody needs.

So, because again, it's just gonna release cortisol and it's gonna release fear, especially stress is gonna release fear hormones, not just stress hormones, fear hormones.

And the body has to react to that.

The body doesn't know that that's not real.

My body didn't know when I was studying for finals that the the stress and the anxiety I was feeling about the finals was was just finals, that it wasn't going to actually be a life or death situation.

My body didn't know that.

My bot to my body, to all of our nervous systems, that means there's a lion chasing me.

And it's like being out in the wild.

And so it has to prepare for the lion.

It has to prepare for a life or death situation.

When that is going on day after day after day, year after year, the nervous system can't sustain it.

It's gonna do great if, God forbid, there is a lion, if there is a life or death situation.

It's good, it's gonna take care of you, it's gonna protect you.

But ongoing, it can't.

So I just, my my fantasy is that doctors sit down and explain to you how your body works and the biology of all this, the biology of your own emotions and the hormones that get released by these experiences, so that you can know how to actually take care of yourself.

Like, obviously, we're gonna be stressed.

Okay, so then what are some tools I could use so that that stress doesn't have to then have a negative impact on the nervous system?

Like, wouldn't that just be such a delicious gift?

But instead, okay, fine, I'll do my best to teach that to the masses.

But that's like my my nice little fantasy.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I love it.

So, so I I'm curious for you to keep talking this through.

So talk to me about what you would end up discovering on this own journey that you're on about, well, if stress activates it, how do I eliminate it?

I mean, what what I mean, because that's it sounds easy, but implementation sounds hard.

SPEAKER_03: No, you're correct.

They I really appreciate that.

You can hear that implementation sounds hard.

A lot of people think like I can just explain it in a few minutes, and uh, much easier said than done.

The body's job is to process all emotions.

And as I just explained the example with a lion, that is for our own survival, that is for our protection.

The thing is that the the world that we live in today, I'm having emotions over, you know, a conflict with a friend or an upcoming deadline at work or, you know, anxiety about a promotion.

It's a good thing, it's a promotion, but still there can be anxiety.

And so we need to learn to process our feelings in a healthy way.

If we're not processing them, they get stored in the body.

And then there's that, you know, hormonal response on the body's behalf that then leads to other physical breakdown.

So if a person is completely healthy, this is still happening.

We just don't notice it.

If there is, if it goes on for too long, we do start to notice it.

So someone will, you know, call me up and maybe they've started having headaches.

And and there are certain things that we always know.

So, for example, if we experience fear, even if you're just watching a movie and there's a moment of suspense, your heart races, right?

So we we've all experienced a physical reaction to an emotion.

Fear, my heart races.

We've all experienced that, right?

Sadness, I tear up, joy, I tear up, being inspired, I tear up.

There are physical responses to our emotions.

And actually, just to kind of geek out with you for a second, they can actually show under a microscope that tear molecules are different depending on the emotion.

So tears of joy look different than tears of sadness, which, like, oh, it blows me away that the body is like that specific.

And what does that tell us?

That tells us that the body is actually through tears physically removing an emotion.

So when you said what's the implementation, you know, there are many tools out there for feeling our feelings in a healthy way, moving an emotion, right?

It's an emotion is just energy.

I did not know this, by the way.

I had to learn all of this.

To me, this was all like crazy cuckoo weird.

But um an emotion is energy.

And if I think of it as just energy, it's like, okay, that's not so bad because I was always scared of feeling my feelings.

That was like a terror, what feelings?

What do you not just scared of feeling feelings?

What feelings?

I don't have any emotions.

Like I'm fine all the time.

That was me.

Um, turns out I was having some feelings.

And when we think of an emotion as energy in motion, okay, so then how can I move it through?

So, my go-to, I'll just say my go-to on this, and it's so easy to learn, is something called tapping.

It's officially called EFT Emotional Freedom Technique.

And again, God put a perfect person in my life, and she is such a superhero, Shelly Malka, living just outside Jerusalem.

I was living in Israel at the time when I went through my healing journey.

And, you know, I she she taught me tapping.

Well, she facilitated so much for me, but she really helped me to see that, first of all, that I was having feelings, and then that it was safe to feel them.

And then she taught me how to tap.

And tapping basically works through acupressure points in the body and energy meridians in the body to keep those emotions moving out while you're feeling them.

And what they find, and this is so cool, is that scans show, like if you tap while, while uh like during, let's say a CT scan, they can see that the the part of the brain that is responsible for our fight or flight response, it's called the amygdala.

That part of the brain calms down while we're tapping.

So I'm having an emotion.

Now I'm just it's that's normal.

I'm a human being, I'm having an emotion, but my brain is going danger, danger, danger, right?

Let's get Kaylee to safety.

Meanwhile, I don't know.

I just I had a conflict with a boss, let's say, you know, that's not the end of the world, but the brain's saying danger.

And then I tap and I tell the brain, we're safe.

It's okay, I'm safe.

That mechanism alone allows the emotion to pass through without having a negative impact on the system, you know, on let's say the organs, whatever, whatever the tissues, whatever is activated at that time in the body.

There's a lot I want to say.

I'm trying to pause so that's a lot of information.

SPEAKER_02: I'm like, wait, maybe you should stop talking for a second.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

Oh my god.

So this is fascinating.

So I have heard of the tapping thing before.

I you kind of used the term cuckoo before.

Um, but talk to me though.

I'm kind of curious.

I mean, obviously it's different places, but like as an example, where would you be tapping?

SPEAKER_03: Sure.

Yeah.

There are different schools of thought.

I start at the top of my head, okay, and you're not tapping hard.

It's Nice and gentle.

So I start right at the top in the center.

If anybody knows like energy systems, it's like the crown.

And then I tap on my eyebrows, and I'm doing it as I'm talking to you.

Assuming that everyone's tapping along with us.

That's real in my little world, right?

And then I tap on the sides of my eyes, right?

Like at the crease.

Then I tap under the eyes.

I mean, I can keep going.

There's many spots.

So those are just some examples under the nose, the chin.

Those are just some examples.

And you can also tap.

I know it probably sounds so weird.

Like, wait, so you're just gonna sit, you can't sit at your office and do that, like in a desk.

If, like, you know, we all have these like open floor plans now.

It's like, what am I supposed to do?

So you can also tap just on your fingers under a desk.

There's there's many ways to do this that like no one would even know or see you.

I don't care.

I I got to the point in my life where I'm like, hey, you know what?

I healed MS.

So uh if if this tool helped that much, I'm I will stand in line at the grocery store and tap so that you see me.

I don't care.

I have no shame about it.

But for others, I'm like, you can do it discreetly under a desk.

And there were many, many steps, Kevin, to to learning to feel my feelings too, learning to move this through the body.

This is just to me the easiest and most powerful tool that anyone can access.

And as much as it sounds, you know, out there or weird, like there's so much science to back this up.

And there's an app to make it really easy.

So there's an app called the Tapping Solution.

So if all of you are like, wait, what did she just say?

Well, am I doing it right?

So you just download the app, follow along with the tapping solution, and and you have it in the palm of your hands.

What one of my clients calls it um having having a therapist in your pocket.

And it's it's so profound.

Like, I'll just share, you know, I started my career as a therapist, my second career after the 14-year-old CEO, the next iteration.

I started my career as a marriage and family therapist.

And through grad school and thousands and thousands and thousands of hours just to get my license, I I can't tell you I did not have a tool as powerful as tapping.

It's like shocking to me that it took so many years to get to, you know, my therapist Shelly, who taught me to, I'm like, what are people doing?

Like, how did I not have this tool?

Like, what was I doing for my clients?

And they loved me and they gave me all these gifts.

And I'm like, well, I don't even know what I was doing for them.

So what's so profound about this is not only can you have someone guide you, but then you can do this for yourself.

It's in your pocket, right?

To me, that's what's so important is you don't have to always be relying on someone else to get to safety, to feel good in yourself, to have support.

It's like you could do this for yourself.

Like, why did no one tell me this sooner?

So now all your viewers know, listeners know, and and uh we just gave them this gift.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is so fascinating.

And I will definitely be sure that the app you mentioned, I'll be sure that I put that in the show notes.

Perfect.

Um, for anybody.

So you mentioned that you took a year off.

Was it only a year, or did it turn into more than a year?

SPEAKER_03: No, I just took that year off and then I then I started college at USC.

They allowed me to do short, which was awesome.

SPEAKER_01: Okay, amazing.

So the reason I asked that question was because I was wondering returning back to to college, had you it was in that year that you had learned this technique about tapping.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, no, no.

That was much later.

I don't know how this how I got into like how to heal the body now, but um, that was much later.

But but having a year without stress, I saw how much my body changed.

I got so healthy.

I got my abilities back, my strength back.

I mean, I shared with you I could barely walk, I could barely stand.

And I got to the point where I could work out, I could go to the gym, I could start dancing again.

I love to dance.

I mean, I could dance all night at that point.

Like it was amazing how much not having stress in my life changed the body.

So that kind of always stayed with me as like there's something to this.

I need to figure out how to hack this.

And yet, even though I felt so good, the moment I was plugged back into, you know, quote unquote normal life back at school and work and all those things, it's like, oh, there's symptoms again.

All right.

So it's like, it's not sustainable.

It's like there, we have to find, we have to be able to, at least that's how I felt.

I have to be able to live life and not always be afraid of like the next symptom.

And anybody living with chronic illness, you know, knows that you're sort of always waiting, like, when's the next shoe gonna drop?

Right.

And you're waiting.

Can I plan the vacation?

Can I do this?

Can I do that?

And that just, you know, years, years later got to a point where it's like, okay, I can't, I can't live like that anymore.

So that that years later is what got me to say, I need to, I need to figure out how to hack the system and have real true health so that I'm not always sort of like, I have to pause everything.

I want to, you know, you still want to live your life, you know?

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.

So what was, I guess, I'm kind of curious, what were the events that have kind of now shaped where you are today in your career, your personal life?

Were there any big like monumental moments that that really impacted the rest of this journey?

SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, yeah.

Ooh.

I love how this didn't need to be two questions.

It was one that has like 17 answers.

So I'll just I'll share, I'll share like the highlights.

The biggest thing that impacted my journey, in addition to what we've talked about so far, Kevin, was I had a fiance who died.

And that that was, you know, a game.

I don't even know what to say.

It was a life-changing moment.

It it was the worst, worst, worst pain.

The worst pain.

It was unexpected, it was sudden.

Um, he just didn't wake up one day.

And losing David was it was a moment in my life where I realized that life is about living through challenges.

Life is about expanding ourselves, developing ourselves through the challenges.

And I I know that sounds weird.

Like she just spent an hour talking about growing up with illness.

How did she not know that?

But I guess I had thought that I had really believed up until that point that it's like everyone will have one challenge that's sort of just like you just, it's like you don't get off scot-free, but okay, then you just have the one.

And then when David died, I realized, oh, that is not, that is not what life is actually about.

It is the challenges that that make life.

It is the challenges that make you.

And so it's not going to be one.

And it wasn't, I thought MS was, I thought I had like checked the box of challenge.

I thought I was done.

I thought like I met my challenge quota in life.

I really believe that.

I'm laughing at myself now, but like, I really, really believed that.

I was like, oh no, you don't get another.

Like, that's not, that's not how this works.

As if like I could somehow negotiate my way out of that.

And losing David really made me see that it's not about just overcoming a challenge.

It's that life, life is lived in those challenges.

That's where life is actually happening.

It's not what it is on the other side.

And it's not when you're when you're finally over the hump.

It's in it.

It's when you're in the pain and in the tribulation is that that is what life is.

And, you know, you talk to anyone, you realize everybody's facing something.

We all are.

And it's sort of, you know, one thing can roll into the next.

And when we can start to learn how to navigate those and how to lean into the meaning of it, the growth in it.

One of the things you said earlier, Kevin, was like you just reflected on it, it took you about 10 years of going through your own process to start to see, you know, how this would actually shape you, inform you.

And one of the practices I take people through is like, let's fast forward to 10 years from now.

And you're looking back at this moment, what lessons is did that teach you?

Right.

So maybe we don't have to wait the 10 years.

Most of most of us take that time to do that work.

It took me a while of healing from David to kind of put all of this together.

But what if we didn't have to wait all those years?

What if in the moment, in the face of the challenge, amidst the storm, you can start to already do that work.

And it makes it much easier to to weather the storm in a sense, you know.

So, I mean, you asked about other things that impacted my life.

There are many, but that obviously is the biggest.

SPEAKER_01: Like Yeah.

Yeah.

And I just wanted to comment to it.

The way in which you describe that, I kind of help, but feel a sense of peace to realize we don't have to always fear the challenge.

The challenge is what makes us.

The challenge honestly is life.

I feel like life is is kind of a series of challenges, whether we even kind of know it or not.

And and to hear the way in which you spoke about that, it did.

It made me think it isn't something to fear.

I mean, none of us, none of us want bad things to happen.

But the fact that if we look at life from the big picture, it's just us growing and developing and getting to be a bigger, better, stronger version of us.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

Yeah.

A lot of times it it's it's really interesting what you're saying.

There's actually some research on this, that it's like the fear of the thing often makes it so much worse.

It makes the experience of it so much worse.

And throughout history, it's weird to think about, you know, we live in actually a very comfortable generation.

War happens somewhere else.

We're not in touch with it.

I mean, my my family is in touch with it.

I shared, you know, I was living in Israel for a while.

And so what's going on in Israel is affecting, you know, my family um directly.

But most of us around the in the Western world, most people listening to this are not, we we don't live through these things.

We didn't live through the depression.

We haven't, you know, even when economy is tough, which is which is happening right now, it's like we're not starving, we're not rationing, like we haven't lived through massive, massive challenge in this generation.

And interestingly, there's like a great leader who said he's called, he's he's referred to as the the Lababacher Rabbit.

He he said that this would be the hardest generation.

It's like, how?

What are you talking about?

Like, we didn't go through a war, we didn't go through a Holocaust.

Like, what are you talking about, you know?

And and it's because there isn't some external massive, you know, atrocity to give us a sense of perspective.

And so our day-to-day lives, small challenges, big ones, like can kind of take over.

And we don't have like that sense of perspective to know how to navigate that.

And and then our own minds plague us, like our own, our self-critic, I'm not good enough.

All of that, I'm I have to compare to other, all of that, right?

Which social media just feeds so much.

It's our own mindset that makes this generation so, so hard.

Because it's like the enemy you don't know.

You don't you don't have something external that you're overcoming.

Okay, I have a diagnosis, I'm gonna work with that, I'm gonna work towards overcoming that.

Uh, how can I take care of my health?

It's a definable.

Does that make sense?

It's like, but when it's not this definable circumstance, what am I, how do I navigate just day-to-day life?

And so it's almost like those things build resilience.

And so we have to, I really believe, like, so then what do we do?

I really believe that we should, we should all, every single person, even if life is great in this moment, may it continue to be, start to build resilience for ourselves.

Every day have a practice, focus on what is going well, focus on what you can be grateful for.

Not faking it, okay?

So it's not like Pollyanna, like actually take some time to find the things that you're grateful for.

Because when the challenge comes, then you've already built that muscle.

And then it's much easier to then, you know, look at like find the meaning, find what you can be grateful for.

A great book on this is Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankel, who was in Auschwitz, a concentration camp.

And he really teaches that the way to get through life is to always find the meaning in like the trial that you're facing in this moment.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

I love that so very much.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you you get this, Kevin.

I I know that you get this.

And I'm really curious.

I've been wanting to ask you for for quite a few minutes now.

What it what is this like for you to hear from me that now, thank God I'm I'm disease free and living healthy and have kind of learned all of this about my body.

Obviously, they're very different situations, but but I I I know it's really raw and vulnerable.

And of course, you know, you can always edit this out, but I'm just curious what this like for you right now.

SPEAKER_01: What it's like for me is joy.

I feel like there is so much there's so much hurt in this world.

And when I hear your story, I hear the stories of so many of the people I interview, and they've gone through some stuff, and there's a part of me that wishes so badly that they didn't have to.

There's so much a part of me sometimes I can't help literally at the time we're recording this, my cousin, he was in a severe motorcycle accident.

And he is he's in the hospital, he's suffered a traumatic brain injury.

SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, we we always we always you know wish things could just be better.

We want to make things better.

And tying it kind of back to what you're saying is I couldn't help but think though, one day when I was there standing by his hospital bed that I just wish it was me.

I wish he didn't have to go through this.

SPEAKER_05: Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01: And and honestly, that's it.

Is I don't want people to have to hurt.

That's the whole reason.

That's the whole reason why I even do this podcast is I hope that that me and you we can say something that can help somebody else on the other side of the world who who me and you will never even talk to, but they hear this conversation today and it gives them that little spark to keep going.

And um and and then the other aspect of your story is is something that I relate to my own situation, is I look at you and I I look at what you've been able to do.

You have been now basically symptom-free for how long?

SPEAKER_03: Uh over 10 years.

I've lost count.

It's over 10 years.

SPEAKER_01: For over 10 years.

It was something that you found on your own outside of a hospital room.

And I can't help but think of it in my own situation is that I spent the first 14 years of being completely blind, literally only seeing what my fingers touched.

But then I learned how to use echolocation and I retrained my brain's visual cortex to see through sound.

It's so amazing.

And and it's not the conventional people, people at the local blind services.

I remember when I went out there back in uh 2017, I went out to to California and trained one-on-one with a guy who is now my really good friend, Brian Bushway.

And uh I trained with him.

And and I mean, people with the blind centers, I mean, they thought I was being scammed.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, I mean, literally, they people just thought this was this far-fetched thing that is not possible.

And I remember when I finally had it all clicked together and I could finally see the walls of the apartment we were in.

I remember I couldn't help but think, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I just spent 14 years living in darkness with nothing.

unknown: Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01: And and I realized what I was missing out on.

And so I say this all to say is that again, when you ask what I think about with with you, it's not only just immense joy, but also just admiration for you being willing to go outside of the box in pursuit of of something more because you knew there had to be an answer.

You took it so logical.

If this causes it, well, how do I not cause that?

And I just I literally look at you with pure admiration of what an amazing person you are.

SPEAKER_02: Kevin, to hear, like people say that to me obviously all the time.

SPEAKER_03: To hear it from you and what you just shared, like I am just covered in chills.

Like everything you just shared is like, this is why we came.

To me, this is, I really believe every human being has inside them what you just described.

It's like, oh, okay, let me retrain my breath.

SPEAKER_05: Like, let me learn to see through sound.

It's like, and and I feel, I mean, it's like pro, it's expansive to me.

I am like vibrating right now.

SPEAKER_03: I'm like, this is the conversation I want to have every day.

And yet I also I know it and I live it and I breathe it.

And when people say things to me, like, you know, they'll call up with like, oh, my child's going through this.

Like, do you think that's reversible?

I'm like, of course that's reversible.

Then, you know, I'll start listing the books and the this and the that, and you've got to read this one and that one, and this person who was told they'll never be able to hear, and then they could start to hear.

And I'm like, oh my God, I'm talking to you.

Like, it's you.

SPEAKER_02: It's it's not it's not the person in the book, it's not someone I'm referencing or I've heard about.

It's like, no, it's Kevin.

SPEAKER_03: It's it's you.

I'm like, yes, it's this is it's it's so profound.

And you know, you you you mentioned, you know, you referenced God earlier in our conversation, and you you said, and it stayed with me so much because I feel also like you, like I don't want people to suffer.

Like, I just can I can we just take it away?

Like, I really just wish I could just take it away.

And I as much as, and and by the way, I just I don't want us to like finish the conversation without saying this.

I just want to uh to send so much healing to your cousin as we have this conversation, you know, and and hopefully we bring those healing vibrations to him.

And so you've said this before.

You said, you know, how many days did you spend waking up and and just like, okay, God made a miracle last night, right?

Like I can see now.

Like you, you, he healed me overnight and yearning for that.

And I can't help but hear, Kevin, that like you are living to the fullest extent of God's intention for us as humans, which is to utilize the tools that he gave us to create our own healing.

Like you actually use the capacity of your own brain to find a way to see.

I I I'm like literally for me, this is like being in the presence of something holy and sacred.

It's nothing short of divine.

I I just I can't articulate it fully.

It's so profound to me.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, uh, I mean, I I say thank you, but I mean it I I look at you the same way.

I mean, it's just right back at you.

And you know, and in I'll share that the night that I saw for the first time using echolocation.

I remember going to bed that night.

I remember praying, and and I remember the biggest smile coming across my face.

And I was like, you know what, God?

I'm like, you you answered my prayers, you let me see again, but just in a whole new way.

And you know, I have come in my journey to believe that that all of it was worth it.

All of the pain that I've been through, it's all been worth it if I if I could be an impact, if I could inspire somebody, motivate somebody, if I could just help somebody get through what they're going through.

And getting to have this conversation with you today is just one of those things that it's just another tool, another way of getting to fulfill that amazing mission, that getting to fulfill what I I think God meant for me to do with it all.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

I don't have words right now.

SPEAKER_02: This conversation, it's everything.

SPEAKER_03: This conversation is everything.

I think we both live for the same thing.

It's this, it's that this, this, this is gonna change that one person, hopefully many, but if one person that they can get through the day because of this, that's everything.

And so often I get to see miracles, I get to see people heal and get their abilities back.

And I feel the same way.

It's like, you know what?

It was worth all of it.

It was worth the suffering, it was worth the pain, it was worth all of it to get to witness that that one breakthrough.

I feel honored to be able to have this conversation with you today.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, I echo that, write the same back to you.

For somebody who they're interested in learning more about working with you, what you have to offer, or literally just wanting to get plugged into your world or hear what you've got going on, please share with them everywhere we can send them.

And I will be sure that all of that is in the show notes, plus on the website at gritgraceinspiration.com slash Kaylee Z.

SPEAKER_03: Awesome.

Yeah.

So the easiest way to find me is KLZ.com.

You can learn a lot more about what I do and how to work with me.

And I think the best thing there is a free webinar that really goes into detail in teaching how the mind and body work together.

So if anybody's living with symptoms or curious about that, you can do your own deep dive and learn a lot more there.

And you can also follow me on social.

I'm much more on Instagram than anything else.

So on Instagram, I'm Kaylee Zaytuni Official.

And I just, you know, I talk about mind body, but I also just try to share inspiration and really just show up authentically of my own uh ups and downs of everyday life and how I navigate and especially being a mama now.

So hopefully I would love to hear from you guys there.

And if you DM me, I do my best to actually respond.

And it would mean a lot to me to hear from your listeners, Kevin.

SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.

Well, all of that is in the show notes.

Kaylee Z, I'm thinking that you're my sister from another mother.

Um I'm so there.

SPEAKER_05: I love you, Kevin.

I am so there.

I'm glad one of us said it.

I if it wasn't gonna be you, it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_01: Well, well, listen, Kaylee, from the bottom of my heart.

Thank you for being here and for literally just brightening my day.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's it's been such a gift.

This time has been such a gift, Kevin.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.

For you listening today, if you're still listening, I hope I hope you've been enjoying this conversation as much as me and Kaylee have been.

My biggest hope is that you're smiling right now.

Maybe you're laughing, and maybe you're thinking about your own life, your own challenges.

And based on what she just told us today, maybe you're starting to look at them from a little bit different view.

My name is Kevin Below.

This is another episode of Grit Race of Inspiration.

As always, get out there and enjoy the day.