#327: Escaping Darkness: From a Troubled Childhood in Coal Country to Achieving Ivy League Dreams

Kevin Lowe: And in the end, well, you have a story to tell.

Kevin Lowe: Today is an interview with John Boyle, the author of Appalachian Kid, A story of his life.

Kevin Lowe: A story that's going to guide today's conversation.

Kevin Lowe: My friend, it's episode 327. I'm glad you're here. I look forward to seeing you inside.

Intro: Yo, are you ready to flip the script on life? Because those bad days, they're just doors to better days.

Intro: And that's exactly what we do here at Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

Intro: Your host, Kevin Lowe. He's been flipping the script on his own life, Turning over 20 years of being completely blind into straight up inspiration, motivation, and encouragement just for you.

Intro: So, kick back, relax, and let me introduce you to your host, Kevin Lowe.

Kevin Lowe: John, man, welcome to the podcast, dude. It is a pleasure to have you.

John Boyle: Thank you so much, Kevin. I've been looking forward to this since we talked a month ago. Yeah. And it's an honor to be on your show.

Kevin Lowe: Oh, man. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely, dude. Well, John, I'm excited for us to explore kind of this entire kind of life's journey you've been on.

Kevin Lowe: And I would love for you to just kind of take us back in time.

Kevin Lowe: Put us in the place of childhood. Where did you grow up? What was childhood like for you? Just kind of paint that picture.

Kevin Lowe: And I figured that would be an awesome starting point.

John Boyle: Absolutely. I would be happy to. If I get too long-winded, you let me know, Kevin.

John Boyle: I grew up in a small mining community in Kingwood, West Virginia.

John Boyle: It's a town of 2,000 people, and it's on the border of Maryland and Pennsylvania.

John Boyle: And where I grew up was just up in the mountains. It's a farming and mining community.

John Boyle: And growing up, it was a beautiful place. It was a safe place.

John Boyle: It was somewhere where you could go out and you could ride your bike and not come home until it was dark.

John Boyle: And I always played outside and with my friends.

John Boyle: And I love the area and the people.

John Boyle: And really, I couldn't have asked to grow up in a better place, Kevin.

John Boyle: But when I was growing up, I didn't know it until I was older.

John Boyle: But I grew up in a violent home. You know, when you're a little kid, you don't know how to compare your circumstances with someone else's.

John Boyle: You're just doing the best you can to get from one day to the next.

John Boyle: And maybe that's a really high level summary.

John Boyle: But growing up in those circumstances, Kevin, it gave me a lot of difficulty.

John Boyle: And as I, you know, from my earliest memories until, you know, well into elementary school, I really had a lot of difficulty and it stemmed from, you know, violence in the home.

John Boyle: And, you know, look, this is something that just isn't isolated to me.

John Boyle: This is quite common in our society.

John Boyle: And the children who grow up under those circumstances carry the ramifications of those actions with them into adulthood.

John Boyle: And so my childhood was great in many senses.

John Boyle: And I have to this day, Kevin, my closest of friends are the ones I grew up with in Preston County, West Virginia.

John Boyle: And so I, again, I couldn't have asked for better circumstances.

John Boyle: However, there was a great deal of adversity, especially in childhood and into high school and college. Yeah.

Kevin Lowe: Now, did you grow up with brothers and sisters?

John Boyle: Yes. I had three younger sisters, or have three younger sisters rather, and I was the oldest and the only male.

Kevin Lowe: Okay. Wow.

Kevin Lowe: You said, you know, the thing of, you know, when you're growing up and you're a kid, you don't you don't realize that anything's different about the way you're growing up.

Kevin Lowe: How old were you when you realized, wait a minute, this isn't normal?

John Boyle: Well, I would say first or second grade, maybe third grade in that area.

John Boyle: There would be family members who would come to our house and kind of witness some of the treatment, so to speak, ill-advised treatment, really.

John Boyle: And I could tell from the reactions from my aunt, especially, that it wasn't kosher.

John Boyle: And so I began to have radar towards that treatment.

John Boyle: And really, when I realized that this wasn't going on in everyone's home was when I started to have sleepovers at friends' houses or go to friends' houses after school.

John Boyle: And, you know, I would hear, you know, their parents say little things like, I love you. You know, those were things that I didn't hear in my home.

John Boyle: And I'm not trying to pick on my parents. That's just the way it was.

John Boyle: And, you know, just the overall treatment and what they incurred in their home and what I incurred in mine was quite different.

John Boyle: And that's when I began to see that there was something going on in my home that didn't go on in everyone's. Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin Lowe: How did that then impact kind of the rest of your childhood?

John Boyle: Overwhelmingly. As time went on, Kevin, third and fourth grade became exceedingly difficult for me.

John Boyle: I started to be sent to the classroom where there were readers that were behind or kids that were behind in math. It was almost like I was impaired.

John Boyle: And really what was going on, Kevin, I was displaying symptoms of a mental disorder I didn't know I had.

John Boyle: And so I would disassociate with my surroundings at school, especially after something troubling had happened in my home.

John Boyle: And, you know, when I was disassociating in school, I was typecast by many of my teachers as being lazy and a daydreamer.

John Boyle: And that really enraged my father because he didn't like laziness, right? Right.

John Boyle: And so I would incur punishment on top of the abuse from my mom for having bad grades and not being able to function in school.

John Boyle: And one played off another and my grades got worse. Those actions didn't do any good for me.

John Boyle: And by sixth grade, Kevin, I almost failed. I almost failed.

John Boyle: I almost failed sixth grade.

John Boyle: And I remember distinctly, Kevin, going to a parent teacher conference with both of my parents. And I remember my sixth grade teacher looking at my parents and saying, this kid will never make it to college, much less graduate.

John Boyle: And so that was my elementary school years and junior high didn't get any easier.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. Wow, wow, wow. During this time in your life that we're up to at this point, was there anything?

Kevin Lowe: I mean, we talk about school is tough. We talked about home life is really hard.

Kevin Lowe: Was there anything or anyone, though, that you kind of clung to that maybe got you through it looking back?

John Boyle: That's a great question. And not to foreshadow the ending of my book, but that is the ending of my book.

John Boyle: The ending of my book, Kevin, is that my life is a miracle and that I didn't realize that when I was a kid, but God put people in my life that gave me enough to get from A to B.

John Boyle: My dad's friend, best friend growing up was a guy named Jeff.

John Boyle: And he used to take me, you know, hunting. He used to take me fishing.

John Boyle: You know, we would go camping.

John Boyle: He had some kids, but younger than me.

John Boyle: And before he had children, he spent time with me. And it really left an impression on me.

John Boyle: I had an aunt who from the youngest years I can remember was always defending me.

John Boyle: And if she saw treatment that I shouldn't be receiving at home, she would be vocal about it. But she was the only one that really spoke up and even to this day continues to speak up and say it's wrong.

John Boyle: There were others, you know, friends. My best friend Moose to this day, you know, he used to walk me from class to class in junior high to make sure no one picked on me.

John Boyle: There were so many people that God put in my life that changed it.

John Boyle: And all through my life, there were people that just it just changed the trajectory.

John Boyle: And when I got to high school, Kevin, I didn't say this part, but from about fifth grade on, as a young man, I just took the approach that when I was hit, I was going to defend myself.

John Boyle: And that made the reaction from my mother much more vicious.

John Boyle: And to be honest with you, as a child, I really didn't care.

John Boyle: I saw it as no one's going to protect me, so I'm going to do it.

John Boyle: And And right, wrong, or indifferent, that's what happened.

John Boyle: And so there became a dynamic in my home where there were altercations constantly, constantly.

John Boyle: And by the time I was 14 or 15, you know, it was happening quite frequent.

John Boyle: And my father pitched the idea that I could go to a boarding school.

John Boyle: And really, that was my way out. And when I went to that boarding school at 15, I was a sophomore. more.

John Boyle: And when I got to that school, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

John Boyle: I may say that over and over, but there were many good things that happened to me.

John Boyle: And I can't stress that enough.

John Boyle: This is not a story about those who did me wrong.

John Boyle: This is a story about the goodness of God.

John Boyle: And he placed all of these teachers in my world from 15 to 18 that took a kid that almost failed 10th grade again, Kevin, was next to last in my class and just mightily struggling because I didn't have a good educational background.

John Boyle: I was disassociated all through elementary school and much of junior high.

John Boyle: And I'm not making excuses.

John Boyle: That's just my journey. And so there were many, many teachers there.

John Boyle: My English teacher, my math teacher, my football coach, my Spanish teacher, the head of school.

John Boyle: These people plowed into me and didn't have to, too, but they did and it changed my life.

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

John Boyle: That's the essence of mentorship right there.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin Lowe: Before kind of moving forward, did your sisters endure the same treatment as you?

John Boyle: You know, Kevin, I don't really write about my sisters in my book.

John Boyle: I do in a few stories about my childhood just to give the story the proper context.

John Boyle: But, you know, from my vantage point, they certainly had it difficult.

John Boyle: I don't know that they had it as difficult as I did. But honestly, that's something that they would have to answer.

John Boyle: I really, you know, I really left the house at 15 and I didn't come back.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Okay. So at boarding school, you spoke about that was really kind of a, I would consider a pivotal shift, a positive shift forward.

Kevin Lowe: Were there any other kind of standout moments when you look back at that period in time that you feel like was really pivotal in getting you kind of on the course that you ended up taking that's led to kind of where you are today?

John Boyle: Yeah. The first image that comes into my mind when you ask that is the day that I left West Virginia and went to Salzburg, Pennsylvania.

John Boyle: The name of the boarding school was the Kiske School.

John Boyle: And until this year, it was all male. And there was when I pulled up to my when my family pulled up to the dorm to drop me off, there was a man standing outside.

John Boyle: The dorm's name was Clark Hall.

John Boyle: I remember it well. It was in the fall of 1992.

John Boyle: And there was a man standing outside the doors with a Kiske ball cap.

John Boyle: And I was the first student to move in the dorm that day. And just that handoff, Kevin, was so symbolic for me and looking back at it to see a man who was welcoming, who said, we're glad to have you here and I'm going to help you get oriented.

John Boyle: And we're looking forward to spending this year with you. just things like that.

John Boyle: It just, it just gave me a feeling of I'm welcome.

John Boyle: That man, his name's Mark Orsatti and he's still a teacher there.

John Boyle: And when I, when I launched my book, did my, my book opening in September of 23, I did it at that school and he showed up and I told that story, Kevin, and I said it to everybody there.

John Boyle: And I looked over at him and he was just, I mean, just crying his eyes out.

John Boyle: Wow. And it was so cool for me because I don't know that he ever knew that. Right.

John Boyle: When you're a mentor, I don't think, you know, the impact that you have on a child.

John Boyle: And I think to get feedback like that, well, obviously it meant something to him too.

John Boyle: So there were many other moments, Kevin, I don't want to ramble here.

John Boyle: So you cut me off if I am, but you know, my first grade reading, the head of school reads your grades to you.

John Boyle: There's only about 200 students in the school. So it's pretty personable.

John Boyle: And his name was Mr. Pigeon. And he read my grades to me. And he told me I was last in the class.

John Boyle: And Kevin, he didn't tear into me. He didn't tell me that I was going to be nothing but a truck driver and that I was stupid and the things that I used to hear about my grades. He just said, John, your effort grades are B's.

John Boyle: And if you get them up to A's, you'll be my hero.

John Boyle: He didn't he didn't land base me over having 60 and 70 percent in certain classes.

John Boyle: And and I'll give you one over. He didn't do it all year.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

John Boyle: And he just stood beside me. And there were dorm parents in a dorm at Kiske.

John Boyle: There are family housing connected to the dorm. So you're more or less in a family atmosphere and you have what's called dorm parents and those dorm parents are teachers.

John Boyle: And one of the men there was a guy named Dr. Lane and he taught me how to study.

John Boyle: And my junior year, my football coach really helped me get more prepared in the season before I started school. school, I came back with an idea of what I was getting myself into.

John Boyle: And my first grade reading, my junior year, I made the honor roll for the first time in my life.

John Boyle: And I think it shocked anybody that knew me.

John Boyle: But the man that was happiest for me was the guy who taught me how to study, Dr. Lane. And he was a man's man, tough.

John Boyle: And he gave me a hug when I told him. He couldn't have been happier.

John Boyle: And those moments, I can't express how much they meant to me.

Kevin Lowe: And I

John Boyle: Write about in my book.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah yeah absolutely the the power of of a mentor the power of a teacher the power of somebody just shows a kid that they care it's profound it

John Boyle: Is and when you grow up like me it's critical.

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely So in sixth grade, you were told you would never graduate. You would never amount to anything.

Kevin Lowe: But obviously that was wrong.

Kevin Lowe: Talk to me about life continuing out of high school. What happens?

John Boyle: Well, I graduated high school in the summer before I graduated college or went to college. I'm sorry.

John Boyle: In between the summer when I graduated high school and started college, I had worked for my family business, which was in road construction for years at this point.

John Boyle: And I started to realize, I started to consume alcohol and I started to realize that alcohol covered up some of the symptoms I was having that I didn't know I had a mental disorder.

John Boyle: I didn't know what was going on with me at this point. But even through high school and certainly became more pronounced in college, I began to suffer from bouts of insomnia.

John Boyle: I mean, bouts of it for weeks and weeks.

John Boyle: I was having flashbacks and just negative memories that were coming into my brain for no apparent reason.

John Boyle: They were being triggered by smells and sights and thoughts.

John Boyle: And I just didn't know anything about them, right?

John Boyle: So I was having difficulty when you peel back the onion or peel back the curtain to my private life that no one was seeing.

John Boyle: And I would have chronic muscle tenseness. I was having nightmares.

John Boyle: My fight or flight response would get stuck on. And I would feel like there was a bomb threat called in for no reason whatsoever.

John Boyle: And so I really had a lot of difficulty. And what I figured out was that alcohol covered up a lot of these symptoms.

John Boyle: So I began drinking. And when I went to college, I went to the number one party school in the United States. I went to West Virginia University.

John Boyle: And I went to the School of Engineering. And so by my fourth day of college, Kevin, I was arrested for driving under the influence.

John Boyle: And it was really a, no pun intended, a sobering moment for me.

John Boyle: And it really got me back on track and made me realize very early that I was becoming someone that I didn't intend to be.

John Boyle: And that those actions really blemished the work that I'd done in my life thus far. And so I was able to get my focus back on track.

John Boyle: I graduated from the School of Engineering, the civil engineering degree in 1999.

John Boyle: But really, I also struggled in college, Kevin. I struggled mightily with the symptoms that I've talked about already. ready.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Wow. I wanted to back up a little bit.

Kevin Lowe: You said something about, I guess, that in between high school and college, you mentioned something about your family's business. Yes.

Kevin Lowe: So what kind of business was that?

Kevin Lowe: And I guess I guess I kind of failed to ask was during your time in boarding school, what kind of contact and relationship did you keep with your family?

John Boyle: Well, I was much closer with my father than my mother. My dad was a coal miner.

John Boyle: He was a hardened individual.

John Boyle: And I don't fault him for being that. Those were his circumstances and that's just who he was.

John Boyle: And so, especially when I was in junior high, my father didn't like the comments that would come home with my report cards about me being perceived as lazy or a daydreamer.

John Boyle: And so he put me to work at 13.

John Boyle: I began working in a machine shop. When I was 13, my family had a mining business.

John Boyle: They had some surface mines and some deep mines, and they mined coal there.

John Boyle: In North Central West Virginia. And so I worked in the machine shop where they rebuilt some of the miners and underground equipment and, you know, really just clean the bathroom, clean the floors, the dirtiest jobs you can imagine, unhooking hydraulic hoses from roof boulders and miners and shuttle cars and things like that.

John Boyle: And, you know, that was in the late 80s. And into the early 90s, my family pivoted more into road construction and asphalt paving and things more in the public infrastructure realm.

John Boyle: So through high school, I was working, putting in water lines and sewer lines.

John Boyle: I worked behind an asphalt paver. And really, by the time I got to college, I had worked five or six summers.

John Boyle: And I was very knowledgeable.

John Boyle: So into college, I was a crew supervisor and a surveyor and even a project engineer towards the end.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Now, when you would end up graduating, would you go back and work with the family business after graduating college or would you pursue a different career path?

John Boyle: I did pursue all the options that I could find in the late 90s for engineers.

John Boyle: There wasn't a robust market hiring. And really my closest job I was offered was in Washington, D.C.

John Boyle: And being a kid from the country and I went to boarding school in the country, I just didn't see myself in a city at that time in my life.

John Boyle: So I turned those offers down and I went to work for my family.

John Boyle: I was offered a job right out of college and I did that.

Kevin Lowe: Hmm. Wow. How long, how long would you end up working there?

John Boyle: So I don't remember how old I was when I graduated college. I'm just going to guess I was 22. I worked there until I was 40.

Kevin Lowe: Oh, wow.

John Boyle: Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Lowe: Now...

Kevin Lowe: Did you during this time, I guess when I hear this, I guess it's such a shock because it's like boarding school. You got away from that.

Kevin Lowe: And then after graduating college, you kind of went back to hometown.

Kevin Lowe: Did you have much of a relationship with your mother?

John Boyle: No, no, I did not. Yeah, I did not, Kevin.

John Boyle: And I really, because of the interactions at my earliest ages, I would say I never really had a relationship with her, even as a child. Yeah.

John Boyle: I always kind of saw myself as having one parent.

John Boyle: One parent was involved in my life. He wasn't perfect, but no one is Kevin.

John Boyle: And I believe he tried. I think he tried as much as he knew how to navigate that situation.

John Boyle: But my dad was an all-business guy, Kevin, and he was gone a lot in my childhood for work. He traveled a good bit.

John Boyle: And when I got the chance to go travel with him for work, things were better for me than they were at home.

John Boyle: And so really, in my early 20s, I wasn't putting all the pieces together as to how much my childhood would affect my adult life.

John Boyle: And I knew I was dealing with symptoms and problems, But I didn't know what they stemmed from.

John Boyle: Right. So I was just doing my best. And I knew that business inside and out.

John Boyle: And it made a lot of sense for me because I could go in to my family's business and and really have an accelerated career, if that makes sense.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. You spoke a little bit ago, a little bit about the drinking and you told us in college, right after the start, getting caught drinking and driving.

Kevin Lowe: After college, you're in this career.

Kevin Lowe: How would alcohol kind of impact the rest of your story?

John Boyle: In every way possible, Kevin. I was someone in my 20s.

John Boyle: I would say maybe the term is binge drinking.

John Boyle: I don't know if that was exactly it, but I drank to numb myself.

John Boyle: I drank to numb my mind. I drank to not have the thoughts that I would have when I was sober.

John Boyle: I now know those as flashbacks.

John Boyle: But when I drank heavily, I didn't have nightmares.

John Boyle: I didn't have flashbacks. I didn't have poor thoughts.

John Boyle: Even my fight or flight response wouldn't get stuck on.

John Boyle: So I saw alcohol as giving me a break.

John Boyle: And so I didn't necessarily drink every night in my 20s.

John Boyle: But I would go out on the weekends, Kevin, and I would have more than anyone around me. Let's put it that way.

John Boyle: You know, if people around me were having four or five, I'd be at 10 when we left, right? 10 drinks versus four or five for everybody else.

John Boyle: And I wasn't someone, at least I don't think I was, that acted out of line.

John Boyle: I didn't get in trouble again.

John Boyle: But the damage I was doing was to myself.

John Boyle: And if I could, I'll just explain a little bit more.

John Boyle: As I got into my mid to late 20s, I met my first wife.

John Boyle: And when we got married and she started living with me every day, she could start to see that there was something wrong with me that had not been diagnosed.

John Boyle: And she was one of the first ones in my life who started to say, hey, let's go and get you help and let's figure out what's going on. And I did.

John Boyle: I knew there was something going on and I didn't want to deal with it.

John Boyle: And I certainly didn't want to drink every weekend to have to get through it.

John Boyle: Unfortunately, I was misdiagnosed for about 10 years.

John Boyle: And so I believe I started walking in the door at 26 or 27 to psychologists, to my family doctor, to therapists.

John Boyle: And I was trying to get help. And I was diagnosed with, with I was having medication and prescriptions given to me for all these things I didn't have, depression, anxiety.

John Boyle: These were not the root causes. And really, Kevin, what happened there was there were a lot of disguise presentations where I would go in and say, hey, I'm having this problem.

John Boyle: I wasn't putting all the symptoms together and saying, hey, there's a breadth of issues here and I need treatment.

John Boyle: What is the diagnosis? What's wrong?

John Boyle: And I just didn't know anything about it. And I was just trying to navigate the best I could.

John Boyle: So I tried the medication route for several years and it just didn't move the needle.

John Boyle: And I was just being prescribed larger and larger doses because my body was becoming used to what I was given and it wasn't moving the needle.

John Boyle: And so I was so frustrated by my early thirties that I stopped taking medication and I started drinking every day. And that's where things went haywire.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. 37, I know from notes, is a pivotal year.

Kevin Lowe: What happened at the age of 37?

John Boyle: Can I back up just a bit? I want to say one thing before we go to 37.

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely.

John Boyle: When I was 29, on top of all these personal issues I was having, on top of my first wife being pregnant with our first son, my father got sick and he had a heart attack and.

John Boyle: He basically called me one day and said, Hey, I need you to come to the hospital.

John Boyle: I came up to the hospital.

John Boyle: He was sitting outside in his truck and he was upset.

John Boyle: And he told me what happened that night. And he just looked at me and said, You're in charge. Good luck.

John Boyle: So at 29, I took over the family business.

John Boyle: I was the company's president. And I didn't know what I was getting myself into there.

John Boyle: So there was a lot going on when I was in my 30s. I was running a company and I had the intelligence to do so and the technical know-how, but really the emotional intelligence in me was lacking.

John Boyle: So I was also coping with that with alcohol.

John Boyle: I was coping stress with alcohol. I was coping my symptoms with alcohol and I was drinking every day.

John Boyle: I was not late for work. I was highly functional.

John Boyle: Our company went from having 80 employees to around 600.

John Boyle: And it was, it was a, it was a true blessing.

John Boyle: And, and I loved every minute of it. But, you know, in my personal life, after I got home, I was, I mired in difficulty and I was, you know, in some nights I was just sitting in a dark room trying to reset my brain and even alcohol wasn't working.

John Boyle: So when I was 37, to answer your question, I started to turn, my skin started to turn sheet white and I really started to get scared.

John Boyle: I stopped being able to keep food down.

John Boyle: And I went to the doctor and I said, what is wrong? And got some tests run.

John Boyle: Tests came back and said that my liver was failing and it wasn't processing vitamins.

John Boyle: And if I continued this route, I'm a dead man. And so I began to realize that I had to quit now.

John Boyle: And when I went to quit, Kevin, I couldn't.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

John Boyle: I couldn't do it on my own.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. How long would you try to quit?

John Boyle: Well, I tried for about a month on my own.

John Boyle: Somewhere in there. And I would say every night I'm going to stop and I couldn't make it through.

John Boyle: I couldn't make it until six 37 o'clock in the evening.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So what was the turning point?

Kevin Lowe: How, how did you stop?

John Boyle: That's an excellent question. And I believe it's just, it's one of the best parts of my book.

John Boyle: And I write about it in chapter nine. And it's a book about my, it's a chapter about my drinking problem.

John Boyle: I had a, at this point, I'm serving on boards of companies and I had a board meeting in Las Vegas.

John Boyle: And so I was in Las Vegas about a month after I needed to quit.

John Boyle: And you know, Las Vegas isn't doing me any favors.

John Boyle: And so I get on a plane and I'm having this conversation with myself.

John Boyle: I'm not drinking today. I'm not drinking tomorrow.

John Boyle: It's not gonna happen. I'm done. And so Kevin, I didn't even make it to when the flight landed in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

John Boyle: I didn't. I was with a coworker. He drove me home.

John Boyle: And I'm just as far from being able to quit as possible.

John Boyle: So that weekend, I went to a bar with a friend and we went to downtown Morgantown and was at a bar that I always went to and I was very comfortable, but I'm upset.

John Boyle: And my friend could see that. And this is someone that I'd known from a long time from my hometown.

John Boyle: And he looks at me and he says, how are you doing? And I looked at him and I said, not good.

John Boyle: And he said, well, what's going on? So we talked for a little bit.

John Boyle: I don't get into every detail, but Kevin, he looked at me and he said, why don't you come to church with me? And I'm like.

John Boyle: What? You go to church? That was my response, right? It wasn't no, it was, I was kind of caught off guard.

John Boyle: And this, this was something that I had not heard ever discussed in a bar at night.

John Boyle: And I began to have this feeling come over me. And I began to realize that this was a lifeline.

John Boyle: And so in a couple moments, I looked at him after I asked him if he went to church, I didn't know. And I just said, what time?

John Boyle: And then when Sunday came around, I went to church and it was a great experience and I just felt peace come over me.

John Boyle: And so that didn't make me quit, but I went back the next Sunday, right?

John Boyle: I'm really struggling here. I'm sheet white. I'm not keeping down food.

John Boyle: My eyes are bloodshot at this point and I can't quit drinking.

John Boyle: My body's craving I'm not making it to past seven o'clock in the evening, but I am cutting back when I'm drinking.

John Boyle: So I went back the next Sunday and the next Sunday.

John Boyle: And very soon I began to realize that my life and the way I'm living it is in conflict with what God wants for my life.

John Boyle: And so I agreed.

John Boyle: I had a sister who was telling me that I should consider going to detox or rehab.

John Boyle: And I walked in her office and I just said, you know, I agree.

John Boyle: I need to do this. If I don't, I'm not going to be around for my son.

John Boyle: And that was not an acceptable outcome for me. I didn't want to do anything bad to him.

John Boyle: I'd had a very hard childhood and I didn't want him to have that same one.

John Boyle: And so I chose to go away and get help.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. You had never been to church before this?

John Boyle: Well, I wouldn't say that. I grew up Catholic and I'm not Catholic now.

John Boyle: Really, I kind of separated myself from the Catholic Church in my early 20s.

John Boyle: And for the difficulties that I've already talked about, you know, it was hard for me to understand why God would let me go through this as a child.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

John Boyle: And I don't think I was ever purposefully mad at him, but I was very, very frustrated.

John Boyle: And I just felt that there were people that church was meant for, and there was people that it wasn't meant for, and I was in the latter category.

John Boyle: And that's a terrible way to look at it. It is, but I'm being honest with you.

John Boyle: I didn't have any faith life in my later 20s, in my early 30s.

John Boyle: I might've prayed every once in a while for things that I wanted.

John Boyle: I certainly wasn't praying for, hey, God, use me for something good.

John Boyle: Hey, God, what do you want me me to do today.

John Boyle: It was completely selfish if I did pray and I wasn't going to church, very little, if at all.

John Boyle: And so this particular church that I was invited to was non-denominational Christian church.

John Boyle: It just so happens to be the largest one in West Virginia. And it's a wonderful organization with wonderful pastors and they changed my life, Kevin. Wow. Completely.

John Boyle: Well, Well, we both know that God and Jesus did that, right?

John Boyle: But they were the catalyst and they were so welcoming and so kind and invited me as I was. Yeah. And accepted, right?

Kevin Lowe: Yeah.

John Boyle: That's discipleship.

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely. What was your experience like at the rehab facility?

Kevin Lowe: Or I'm not sure the correct term for it.

John Boyle: That's what I call it, Kevin. Okay. Okay. I've heard it called a clinic before, but so I, I prayed, I guess, selfishly, right?

John Boyle: I prayed the night before I left for rehab and I just said, God, I'm done with this. Please help me. Please help me get over the hump.

John Boyle: Please take the urges away. The morning I left, I got on the plane and I was shaking.

John Boyle: I was in bad shape. and when I landed, went straight to the rehab clinic and it was in Florida.

John Boyle: There that day, I was diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder.

John Boyle: I was also diagnosed with alcohol use disorder and I was given a tranquilizer to help me.

John Boyle: Basically the tranquilizer in rehab, it helps you detox. It tricks your mind into thinking that you have alcohol, but actually it's a replicate.

John Boyle: And so once I was given that tranquilizer, I slept for about 14 hours and woke up sober for the first time in over 10 years.

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

John Boyle: And dude, it hurt. Far late 10 years where the hangovers into one day and yeah, it was a tough one, but I got through it and the urges were gone the next day.

John Boyle: Really? I've never had an urge to drink again. Really?

John Boyle: God took those urges away. Wow. Absolutely.

John Boyle: I can sit here and say, yeah, I was given a tranquilizer and it helped, but God took the urges away.

John Boyle: I've not drank since that day. That was April 1st, 2017.

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

John Boyle: 2014. I'm sorry.

Kevin Lowe: Wow. That's absolutely remarkable. And it is absolutely, absolutely.

Kevin Lowe: How did your life look different and does it still look different today without alcohol? Yeah.

John Boyle: Hmm. Very much so. The immediate things that I saw changed were the obvious ones.

John Boyle: Like, oh, I've got a bunch more free time now because I'm not sitting around drinking or going to bars.

John Boyle: And boy, I have a lot more money in my checkbook, right? Because I'm not buying alcohol.

John Boyle: But those are superficial answers, right? The real change happens in parenting.

John Boyle: The real change happened in me starting to seek who God wanted me to be and what he wanted me to do.

John Boyle: I grew much more as a Christian in rehab and outside of rehab.

John Boyle: And I grew a lot personally in my understanding of my disorder and understanding the things that I needed to change and in mending some of the damage that I'd done as an alcoholic, right?

John Boyle: I didn't do a lot of damage to others. Most of it was to myself and that had to be repaired too.

John Boyle: And so it took a lot of time to heal and I got help as I needed it. I read a ton.

John Boyle: I started reading the Bible every day and I could give you 10 or 12 more examples of things that happened in my career and personal life that just, I mean, it's unfathomable for me coming from where I have to be a part of what I ended up doing after I got sober and God coming into my life.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. What I love about your story, though, is that's not the end.

Kevin Lowe: No. Because you, and obviously there's a lot that you can fill in the gaps as needed, but you would actually decide to go back to school.

John Boyle: I did. About a year after I got sober.

John Boyle: I'm all about education. I believe I'm going to strive to get better and be the best version of myself until the day I die.

John Boyle: And I've always been big into education. and I was a part of a group called YPO, which stands for Young Presidents Organization.

John Boyle: And it's really a networking and learning organization for young presidents and CEOs who need polishing.

John Boyle: And so I was on a trip, an educational trip, and I was one of the only people in the group who didn't drink.

John Boyle: And so there was a happy hour event and I was on the beach reading a book instead of standing around a bar.

John Boyle: And a guy rolls up to me on a beach in a wheelchair. I'd never seen that before.

John Boyle: And he rolls up and he says, what do you read? So I answer him and we start talking.

John Boyle: He asked me what I do and what my past has been like.

John Boyle: And so I'm talking to this guy, kind of wondering, you know, where he's gone with this. And he looks at me and he says, have you ever thought about going to Harvard Business School?

John Boyle: And I looked at him, Kevin, and I just started busting out laughing.

John Boyle: I'm like, there's no way that place is letting me in.

John Boyle: And he just looked at me and very nicely said, do you like this island?

John Boyle: Island. Yeah, man, it's a beautiful island.

John Boyle: He said, that's nice because I own it. And I'm going to give you a piece of advice and I hope you listen to me.

John Boyle: He said, my name's David V. Johnson. I'm from Detroit, Michigan.

John Boyle: And I think you're an excellent candidate to go to this program that I went to.

John Boyle: And if you apply online, you can put my name at the bottom.

John Boyle: And he said his name again. I'd never met that man before that moment.

John Boyle: I've never talked to him since, but I took his advice. I applied and I got in like three weeks later.

John Boyle: And then I had to figure out like I really wasn't expecting to get in.

John Boyle: Then I had to figure out how I was going to do my job and go to Boston to go to school.

John Boyle: And so I figured that out and I went.

John Boyle: And in 2017, at 40 years old, I graduated from Harvard University.

Kevin Lowe: Wow.

John Boyle: It's incredible. Wow.

Kevin Lowe: More incredible than a kid who in sixth grade was told he'd never even graduate high school.

Kevin Lowe: More incredible than that is the fact of the power of Jesus Christ to put you in that position on that beach, reading a book, and then that man right at the right time, right in the right place, all was made and it was all part of the plan.

Kevin Lowe: And that is magical, my friend.

John Boyle: It is. It's so good. And it made for such an awesome story that, you know, I really I sat in my basement for two years and made sure that I explained it in the best way possible, because if he'll do that for me, he'll do it for the people listening to your call.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Kevin Lowe: So you've graduated once, you know, with engineering degree.

Kevin Lowe: Now you graduate at 40 years old from Harvard Business School.

Kevin Lowe: Where does writing a book fit into this whole puzzle?

John Boyle: Well, there was one step in between this. So between my second and third year at Harvard, because of my difficulties with post-traumatic stress disorder and my frustration with just trying to navigate a family business and having that disorder.

John Boyle: My dad came back into the business and we were at odds on several things.

John Boyle: And when we would be at odds, sometimes he would get elevated.

John Boyle: And once he got elevated, it put me in a bad place. And there was only so much I could take of that.

John Boyle: And at this point in my late 30s, I wasn't drinking and I'm not getting that, that drug to take the edge off. And I just couldn't deal with it anymore.

John Boyle: And I resigned my, I resigned my position as CEO a few months before my third year at Harvard.

John Boyle: And so, you know, after, after I graduated, I started to seek opportunities elsewhere.

John Boyle: And I found a company in, it's a Charlotte-based bridge building company, and they do a lot of work in South Carolina and Georgia.

John Boyle: I found an opportunity there as a chief operating officer.

John Boyle: And so in my last year at Harvard, I was at a company called United Infrastructure Group, and I'm still there today. But- When, after about a year of being in the Charlotte area, my oldest son, who was 11, really needed a dad closer than being home every other weekend.

John Boyle: And so I chose to move back for my son's benefit and really just help him get to where he needs to get.

John Boyle: And so I kind of furloughed my own career to do that. And then the pandemic hit. And when the pandemic hit, then I had the time.

John Boyle: I stopped being able to be a board member in several positions that I had, paying positions, because I have asthma and I was scared to get on a plane.

John Boyle: And right, wrong, or indifferent, that grounded me. And I was at home and I'm not someone, Kevin, who sits around and does nothing. And I just kept feeling this calling to write a book.

John Boyle: And years previous to that feeling and that calling, I had some Harvard classmates, one in particular, Thomas Wigelman, Dr.

John Boyle: Thomas Wigelman from Munich, Germany, who just kept hounding me.

John Boyle: You've got to write a book, John, you've got to tell your story.

John Boyle: And I told a really brief version of my story in a family business class in Boston in my first year.

John Boyle: And, you know, I was encouraged by many people to write a book about it because it's just an interesting story that you don't hear really at all.

John Boyle: I don't think in books and in business class and, you know, family businesses are tough, but most family members will not talk about it because they They don't want to make the other family members mad.

Kevin Lowe: And so for that very reason,

John Boyle: I didn't want to write a book. And so I'd had a friend or two hounding me for a couple years.

John Boyle: When the pandemic hit, to make a long story short, that's when things changed and I started seriously considering it and getting underway.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Okay. Okay. So it's one thing to decide you're going to write a book.

Kevin Lowe: It's a whole other thing to actually write a book and publish it.

Kevin Lowe: How was that process for you? Especially the fact of you had to force yourself to go back. I'm sure, to a lot of memories that were hard.

Kevin Lowe: What was it like for you to be able to make it through all of that and come up with this finished product, this amazing book that you would be comfortable then sharing with the world?

John Boyle: It was a long journey and it was as difficult as you can imagine, especially the parts about going back to childhood and admitting, right, that you went through this to yourself and to others.

John Boyle: And then the thought of it being public and well, there's no more secrets in your life.

John Boyle: That's overwhelming when you first start the journey.

John Boyle: And don't forget now that I've never taken a writing class in my life.

John Boyle: Never. I hadn't had any type of writing training other than what I had at Kiske Prep School in the early nineties.

John Boyle: And past 12th grade, I'd never really written a paper.

John Boyle: Again, I went to engineering school because I didn't want to.

John Boyle: I was dead set in my thoughts that I'm an engineer and not a writer.

John Boyle: So it was hard for me to get off base from that.

John Boyle: And even though I'm not a writer, I love to read.

John Boyle: And I would say, especially after I quit drinking, I would read all the time.

John Boyle: Some nights I would read a whole book from start to finish because it kept my mind focused on something and kept me out of trouble. So why not do it? Right.

John Boyle: And you learn from reading. So I knew what a reader wanted in a book, or at least I thought I did.

John Boyle: But being able to transcribe that to sitting with a laptop on your lap and writing doesn't necessarily translate.

John Boyle: And so really, I had to write a whole first draft the whole way through the book and throw it away before I really knew how to write a book that could take a reader up and down in the joys and pitfalls of my life and make it engaging and keep people reading and, you know, tell stories with inside within facts of what had happened in my life.

John Boyle: Life to, to make it a journey that people could engage with and relate to.

John Boyle: And so, you know, the one good thing I have had in my, in my life is growing up in West Virginia and storytelling is something that happens in the country and it's an art form.

John Boyle: And so, you know, this like recognition of having an inner voice and telling a story in a unique way is what really in the second draft made my book what it is.

John Boyle: And the one thing that I didn't know when I was writing was I didn't know where I was going to end the book.

John Boyle: And so what gave me so much difficulty in the first draft was I wasn't writing a book with the end in mind.

John Boyle: And that's what I realized in the second draft that I didn't get in the first.

John Boyle: When you write with an end in mind, every story, every chapter has purpose and builds to, to your ending.

John Boyle: And, and it just gives it the right context. And, and I wanted to write a book to Kevin that took people up and down and made people laugh and cry because some of the subjects of my life are very sad and not everybody just wants to read a sad book and only be sad.

John Boyle: And so I tried to have fun with it and that helped me get through the difficulty of writing the sad parts.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. Upon completion of your book, what has been the feedback you've gotten from strangers and even people you know, family members?

John Boyle: Oh, it's been...

John Boyle: It's been overwhelming. It's been so good. It's been so encouraging.

John Boyle: I think this is my 15th podcast, Kevin, not only during the publishing and people reading and getting back to me and saying, hey, I loved your book.

John Boyle: Or, you know, some of the best compliments I've had is I had one woman who emailed me at like 6 a.m.

John Boyle: And she said, hey, I got your book yesterday and I picked it up and I opened a few pages.

John Boyle: And I couldn't put it down. I read the whole thing last night.

John Boyle: I'm just going to bed right now at 6 a.m.

John Boyle: You did a wonderful job. I'm like, I didn't, Kevin, I didn't think anybody would buy it.

John Boyle: I gotta be honest with you. I didn't think anybody would publish it.

John Boyle: And this is like just being short-sighted, right? Because God had a plan and I'm like kind of fighting it the whole way.

John Boyle: Like God, no, I really don't want to write this book.

John Boyle: I really don't want to talk about these these things? And what's the purpose?

John Boyle: It's already done, right?

John Boyle: And now I know, right, that God is using my story for good.

John Boyle: And he's using my story to bring people closer to him. And he's using it to help people.

John Boyle: And I'm flattered and honored by that.

John Boyle: And a lot of the feedback I've gotten, I've gotten feedback from alcoholics who are trying to quit or have already quit and are trying to stay sober.

John Boyle: I've gotten feedback from people who have struggled with the same upbringing as a child in a violent home that I have.

John Boyle: And some of these people are well-known, right? Two of them, United States senators.

John Boyle: And it's just, it's been incredible to hear people just open up to me and share their own difficulty and their own journey.

John Boyle: And to hear Thank you from people like that for saying, I haven't felt like I could tell my story because of the retribution I would receive from my family and what it might do to fracture it. But I'm so thankful that you told yours.

John Boyle: I've had, I'll say one more thing and I'll be quiet.

John Boyle: I've had colleagues on boards, boards of directors as recently as a few months ago, tell me, Hey, I, I read your book.

John Boyle: I loved it. And I bought three more copies and I gave them to my children because I want them to see, one, what can happen when you get off track in your life, but two, the goodness of God.

John Boyle: And it's just and what an honor. Yeah, I can't say it in another way.

Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. An honor. Please remind us the name of your book and where somebody can find your book who's excited enough to read it because, I mean, my goodness, you've sold us on it like nobody's business.

Kevin Lowe: So where can we find it?

John Boyle: And thank you. Thank you. This has been awesome for your listeners.

John Boyle: My book, the name of my book is Appalachian Kid, Appalachian Kid.

John Boyle: And it can be found on Amazon. There's hardback, there's paperback copy, there's a Kindle copy, and there's also an audio book.

John Boyle: And if you type in my name, John Boyle, Appalachian Kid, it will pop up and you can buy it there.

John Boyle: I also have a website, AppalachianKid.com, and there's a little bio of me and there's some endorsements that I received when I first published my book.

John Boyle: And there's also a synopsis of the book itself, which gives the reader just a nutshell of what they'll be reading.

John Boyle: But of course, anybody that listens to your show is going to know more than the synopsis would tell them.

John Boyle: And I'm also on LinkedIn, John P. Boyle.

Kevin Lowe: Amazing. John, I will be positive that everything is in the episode show notes for anybody Anybody interested, please just check out the show notes for today's episode for easy access.

Kevin Lowe: John, man, I want to thank you so much today for sharing your story, for taking us really on this journey.

Kevin Lowe: And I want to say that I'm so happy for you and the place that you are today, what you have overcome. come.

Kevin Lowe: Life hasn't been easy, but I look at you and I think what an amazing testimony you are to the power of God.

John Boyle: Amen, brother. Amen. I couldn't have said it better.

John Boyle: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. And I really hope this brings value to your listeners.

John Boyle: It's been a great podcast. Thank you for having me.

Kevin Lowe: Absolutely. Absolutely. For you listening today.

Kevin Lowe: I hope, as always, that you've enjoyed our conversation with John as much as I have.

Kevin Lowe: Such an amazing guy with such a heartfelt story to share.

Kevin Lowe: I hope that something said today can be an impact to you in your life.

Kevin Lowe: If something did resonate, if something made you think of somebody in your life, please share today's episode with them.

Kevin Lowe: That would be amazing. amazing and don't forget to check out the show notes for all of the links to find john's book until next time i'm kevin lowe and of course this is grit grace and inspiration <Music>