Blossoming in Sobriety: Sonia Kahlon's Inspiring Journey from Alcoholism to Self-Discovery

If only your life looked like theirs.

Well, today's guest, Sonia Callan, you could say that she was that woman.

She had the dream career.

She had the beautiful marriage.

And both her and her husband had graduated in the dental industry.

She was an orthodontist.

They had grew their business to massive proportions.

They were doing amazing.

And from the outside, her life looked perfect.

But what you didn't see was what was happening on the inside.

Because starting way back when Sonia was just a child, she would discover the power of alcohol.

The alcohol, it helped the anxiety.

It just made her feel good.

And as she would grow up, she would find herself drinking a little more, a little more, and a little more.

While in dental school, she'd be going on three-day benchers on her days off.

After graduating, working, she's still drinking on her days off.

It was an all-the-time occurrence until all of a sudden something had to change.

Luckily, she realized that for herself.

Today, you're going to hear her story.

You're going to hear the good times and the bad in her life.

And ultimately, you're going to get to hear how she got to where she is today.

A woman who is blossoming in finding purpose in her pain.

This is the story of Sonia Cowan.

This is episode 266.

What's up, my friend, and welcome to Grit Grace of Inspiration.

I'm your host, Kevin Lowe.

Twenty years ago, I awoke from a life-saving surgery only to find that I was left completely blind.

And since that day, I've learned a lot about life, a lot about living, and a lot about myself.

And here on this podcast, I want to share this insights with you.

Because, friend, if you are still searching for your purpose, still trying to understand why, or still left searching for that next right path today, we'll consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from where you are to where you want to be.

Before we dive into today's interview with Estonia, let's get real for a minute.

If it's Monday morning, how are you waking up?

Are you waking up excited for the day?

Can't wait to crush it to sleep?

Or are you already dreading the mere thought that OMG, here we go again?

If you are anything less than enthused when you wake up on Monday morning, well my friend, I encourage you to find your purpose, to discover your reason why, to identify your own personal North Star.

Because when you figure that out and then you start designing your life around that purpose, oh my gosh, you start waking up on Monday morning as excited as you do on Saturday.

If you want this kind of feeling next Monday morning, well, your next step is to text the word discover to 55444.

Again, simply text the word discover to 55444, and I'm gonna let you know how I can help you to make this happen by finally discovering your purpose.

SPEAKER_01: I grew up in Toronto and uh my parents were Indian immigrants, so they were pretty strict growing up, and the main topic was always academics.

So it was like, how are you doing in school?

How can we do better?

And so there it was, it was a pretty like disciplined environment in that way.

And I think that from an early age, that gave me anxiety, and I didn't even know, I didn't know to put a word on it, but I think now I know that that's what it was.

And so yeah, I just had this kind of grew up with this anxiety, always not feeling like I wasn't good enough.

So always feeling like my grades weren't high enough.

I wasn't, you know, I'm not tall enough.

And so things like that.

And so, you know, I went on like that until I was like 13, 14, I had my first drink.

And I was like, this is amazing.

This is it.

This solves all the problems.

Like all of a sudden, that anxiety was gone.

I could relax.

I don't think I had ever relaxed like that in my life.

Like, I don't think I ever like let my guard down that much.

And so, yeah, that was sort of my first intro to drinking and drugs.

And so that was it.

I was self-medicating an anxiety issue looking back.

And yeah, as a teenager, I was before probably the drinking, like very anxious and didn't fit in and, you know, very quiet and always felt left out.

And then the drinking sort of changed that for me.

I felt like it kind of like, you know, gave me like a new edge.

And so yeah, that's what growing up was like.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Wow.

Now, the way that you felt like with your parents sitting in and just not fitting in, was that exclusive for just at home, or did it translate over to being in school as well?

SPEAKER_01: It for sure translated into school because I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood and I was just like, you know, five shades darker.

And I think that I was always really aware that I didn't look like the blonde-haired, blue-eyed girls.

And yeah, it was hard to not understand why I was different, but to know that I wasn't, I didn't fit in.

And I didn't really know.

We my parents were not really, we didn't really practice our culture that much.

They were really assimilated.

So we ate Indian food, but you know, I didn't grow up like watching Bollywood movies and having a lot of pride in, you know, Indian culture.

So I just felt different.

SPEAKER_00: Understood.

Understood.

You mentioned starting having your first drink.

Would you take me back to that?

Do you even remember that, your very first drink?

SPEAKER_01: I do remember my very first drink.

It was like a probably a boyfriend when I was like 13 or 14 that had like a bottle of something, and I, you know, had a a swig of some sort of hard liquor, and you know, it burned on the way down, but then like minutes later, just like very warm feeling.

And, you know, after that, you know, there's a lot of drinking in Indian culture.

And so my parents always had a bar in every house we lived in, some sort of bar in the basement and filled with hard liquor, just filled with like Johnny Walker and Crown Royal.

And so after that, I started sneaking alcohol from that bar at night after everyone would go to sleep.

SPEAKER_00: Wow.

Wow, wow, wow.

Now, did that only did it just continue to kind of get worse, would you say, like all through like high school years and then into college?

SPEAKER_01: I would say high school was pretty stable.

Like I wasn't, it's not like I would be hungover during the day.

I would, you know, I didn't do it every day.

Maybe a couple of times on the weekends I would test it out.

And then when I got to college, it was, you know, my main way of socializing.

And I don't think I ever socialized again without alcohol.

And so it really made me kind of able to fit into different groups.

And I always say like I became like a mimic a little bit where I could fit into any group and kind of like change my personality to fit the group.

And I think the drinking allowed that because I think when you're sober, it's very hard to do that.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

And I mean, to be quite honest, I mean, even if we separate the drinking aside, I mean, that sounds like so many young people trying to fit in and blending into each group individually.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, so many.

And I think, you know, I just never really had a really good concept of myself, if that makes sense.

Like I didn't know who I was.

So when I would kind of like call it like code switch a little bit, it wasn't inauthentic in the sense that I that I had this like authentic self and I was like betraying it.

It was more, I don't know who I am.

So I'm gonna try this persona on.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.

Now, your college did you was it away from home?

Like, did you move away from home?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it wasn't that far.

I'm from Toronto and it was still it was in Toronto, but I lived on campus.

So a lot of freedom that I had never had.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, amazing.

I mean, now, school for you, was it about studies?

I mean, because I mean, I know going away to college can do a lot for kids.

I mean, I think we're thrown into this more adult vibe than we've ever been in.

And for you, did you stay on top of your school or did the partying take over?

SPEAKER_01: So I think I've always had this sense that I have to do well in school.

And I would say the partying definitely affected it, but I was always super aware that at some point I had to do something with my life.

And it was like, you know, my parents were waiting for me to do something with my life.

And so I always kind of kept it where it didn't seem like there was ever a problem.

I didn't fail any classes.

I mean, I wasn't doing great.

I was just sort of like maintaining so that no one would really notice that there was anything going on.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, what path did you end up taking in in college as far as a career path?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

So, you know, with with my parents, there was only a couple of options.

So it was like, you can be a doctor, you can be a dentist, you can be a pharmacist.

And so I sort of just picked the one in the middle and I became a dentist.

So I left Toronto and moved to Boston and I went to dental school.

And again, just like not inauthentic career choice, but not, I mean, did I love teeth?

No.

Like, did I have a like, yeah, did I have a burning desire to do a job like with my hands?

Like, no.

But it was again, it was just sort of like an easy choice.

It seemed like, okay, well, this job makes some money and I won't starve, and I'll probably be able to, you know, marry some sort of reasonable human being, and uh that's it.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Well, well, that's I mean, yeah, I mean, you check the boxes.

I mean, you know, so that's good.

Now, talking about meeting a reasonable human being, talk to me about that aspect of life.

When did you meet the man who you would end up marrying?

SPEAKER_01: Yes, in dental school, which I don't think is that unusual because you spend so much time there.

And I met my now ex-husband, and yeah, we started dating.

We were in our mid-20s when we started dating and you know, both graduated dental school.

We did both did residencies and then we got married.

So very, yeah, it hit it.

We were ticking the boxes.

So, like, you know, get jobs, get married, buy a house, and and then we started a practice together eventually.

SPEAKER_00: Okay.

Wow, wow, wow.

Now I'm curious about the drinking because I mean, dental school is no joke, but were you still drinking?

Was that still a part of you, the drinking all through dental school?

SPEAKER_01: So for sure, that dental school was so hard that my drink, my drinking took a back seat.

And I really just binge drank when I didn't have exams.

So every like four to six weeks, we would finish up like a section and we'd have a couple of days, and I would just binge drink with my friends.

And so it didn't seem that unusual because everyone was doing it.

We were blowing off steam at the end of, you know, semesters and that type of thing.

And so that was what my drinking was like throughout dental school because there was really no option, right?

I had to go to school every day from like nine to like, you know, sometimes it was like nine to seven, and then come home and study.

And so it really kept me on the straight and narrow, except for those times where I could kind of go wild.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, so I guess kind of talk to me and walk me through kind of the next stages of life as far as maybe what led to a turning point or the climax, I guess you may even say, with your drinking and with this direction that you were headed.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

So when I started working, I, you know, finally had a normal schedule.

I worked from nine to six, and it was a really normal thing to me to like come home and open a bottle of wine.

And it started just like that, where I would come home, open a bottle of wine, and you know, felt like sophisticated and adult.

And if I had a bad day at work, it felt way better.

And it just made everything better.

It made like watching a show better.

And so I think it just, I never was used to just having a drink.

That wasn't my method of drinking, my pattern.

And so that I don't remember ever starting at one glass of wine, but probably starting at like two or three glasses of wine a night and then progressing to a lot more than that every night.

And and when I say every night, I mean every night.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Now, did your husband drink also?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he drank, but he also smoked a lot of weed.

And for some reason, I gave that a pass.

Like I didn't think, I was like, oh, it's not that big a deal.

Especially when it came time for me to kind of think about like, do I have a problem?

I didn't think, does he have a problem with weed?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, understood.

Talking about that, when was the first time that you ever even thought, do I have a problem?

SPEAKER_01: So that normal schedule and normal drinking schedule went on for a couple of years.

And then when we opened our own practice, we started working a lot more.

So back in this kind of crazy, like 14, 16-hour day schedule.

And the only way I knew how to blow off STEAM was drinking.

And so I was fitting my drinking into like less hours, and I was hungover every morning.

And I started to think more that I was unhappy more than I thought I have a drinking problem.

I hadn't like attributed the dissatisfaction with my life to the alcohol yet.

And so I was, you know, I was pretty deep, I think, in a mental health crisis too.

I had lost sight of like why I had started this business, didn't understand like the point of working that hard.

I didn't see kind of, you know, a light at the end of the tunnel for how much I was working.

And then, you know, on top of that sort of like severe depression anxiety, I felt terrible all the time physically, right?

And so we eventually got a great offer to sell the practice.

And it's when we sold the practice that I had that like mental space to think, okay, this isn't just, you know, a problem that can be solved with antidepressants, which, you know, partly it can't.

But there's another thing is that you're using a depressant every night.

You're using alcohol on top of this antidepressant.

And that's when I realized that there was definitely a problem.

And I had a lot of family members to look to to see an alcohol problem.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

So is that because you kind of talked about earlier about drinking a big part in your culture.

So was that still a big deal?

Would you say that family members were alcoholics?

SPEAKER_01: For sure.

I would say though, that men, like I only really saw men drinking.

So it wasn't like I saw, you know, my mom didn't really drink when I was growing up.

But, you know, my brother definitely had an issue with alcohol.

And so, yeah, it was something that, you know, I saw consequences of alcoholism and still thought I didn't really fit that pattern.

Like I didn't hadn't lost my job.

I hadn't lost my marriage.

I hadn't lost custody of any kids I didn't have.

And so so that was another thing that was hard to kind of admit.

But but seeing sort of that genetic link kind of also was like another reason to think maybe there's a problem.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

Now, I have to kind of touch on one thing before we we move forward is were you crazy starting a business with your husband?

Like that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

I mean, I think what's interesting in our case is that we started like our relationship started while we were in school.

So it that was always sort of like a part, our career was always sort of a part of our relationship.

And then we both became orthodontists.

And so that was like another part of our relationship.

And it was pretty natural to start a practice together.

It didn't start off, it started off when we started that I was still working somewhere else, he was still working somewhere else.

So it was like one or two days a week.

And then over seven, eight, nine years, it it was, you know, our practice was big and we were there every day.

But yeah, I looking back, I think you get to see a side of somebody that you haven't seen before.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.

I mean, that's that's just a whole lot of time to be with somebody all.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, luckily Yeah, we had multiple offices, so it was not okay typical for us to be in the same physical location, but I mean, we were running a business together, so there was a lot of like communication about the business, like constant.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

Now, now you mentioned that you guys ended up selling the business.

So, what led to that?

And what did you think you were gonna do after it sold?

SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was a random thing where I was looking for another orthodontist to work for us.

So I contacted like a headhunter, and the headhunter said, Have you ever thought about selling?

I have a group that wants to buy orthodontic offices in Pennsylvania.

And I had not even thought about it.

Uh, I didn't even know that was an option to sell.

And, you know, what made it attractive was that we had seven offices.

And so they really wanted like a big footprint.

And so, yeah, we were sort of the ideal practice for them to buy to start with.

And I remember knowing, like, I had to do it.

Like I remember telling my husband at the time, like, we we have to do this.

Like, we need to get on with our lives.

Like, we were both, I don't think at that time, we both were not in love with orthodontics.

We didn't have any hobbies or interests, we weren't close to our families.

And and I was really getting depressed.

So this came like at the perfect time.

I doubt he would have wanted to sell because the business was doing so well when we did if I hadn't pushed it.

But it was honestly to this day the greatest thing that's ever happened to me.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

But I mean, first and foremost, though, I mean, I mean, applause to you guys for building that level of a business.

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was.

I mean, I would say like things like that sometimes happen a little bit accidentally.

It happens like accidentally at the beginning, and then we really started intentionally growing the business towards the end.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

So, what did life kind of look like and direction did it take after the sale of the business?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I um was really worried about that.

So we stayed on, but I had a really normal schedule.

I could work from home half the day and go in half that day and really be done by five o'clock, or you know, and you can go to doctor's appointments and the bank, and all of a sudden, like this world opened up.

And I think I sort of looked around with this like extra time and thought, I don't have anything I like to do.

I just was running this business for the last, you know, almost decade.

And so, you know, I would pick up a couple of hobbies and then couldn't finish them, right?

Like I would pick up, I'm gonna knit a scarf and I would get like two like rows in, and the scarf would be like under the couch.

And and yeah, I knew I was like, you know what?

This it's because I'm drunk every night that I can't complete anything.

And I was still feeling like garbage.

So a few months after the sale, it was pretty quick that I thought I have to do something about this.

I don't know how even saying I'm gonna do something about it means there's a problem.

And I just kept thinking, let me try going a day.

Let me try going a day.

And I couldn't.

I couldn't go a day without drinking.

And I just, you know, tried for like six.

Months and then I went one day.

I went one day.

I remember Super Bowl Sunday when the Eagles won the Super Bowl.

And I went one that one day, that one Sunday, and it was amazing.

It was like the world opened up.

Like I woke up, I felt good.

Even that night, I remember like I was reading a book.

I don't remember a book I read before that.

I don't remember movies I watched.

And so I knew that that that was sort of the beginning and I would try it again.

And then yeah, opportunity came where I had gone out on a Saturday night and I had like this vicious hangover, which was normal for me.

And blacking out was normal, but it just, I don't know.

I guess I had just hit this point where I was like, I can't do this anymore.

And I was like, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna drink tonight.

And then I didn't.

And then I just was like, I'm not gonna drink the next night.

And then I didn't.

And then yeah, I started to string together, you know, a week and then two, and then a month, and then a few months, and then probably around, probably around six weeks, I started telling, not like people, but I told my brother.

My brother was in recovery by that point.

And I was like, look, I stopped drinking and this is why.

So I was like, okay, yeah, I'm not gonna drink.

I think this is how my life has to be.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Now, did you have help through through a program like AA or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01: No, so that was kind of the issue that my ex was very against me admitting I had a problem, right?

He didn't want me to use the word sober.

And it was embarrassing to him.

He was somebody who was like very in control of himself and his like behavior, very like intentional, yeah, very controlling in general of people around him.

And so he didn't want to say, like, oh, my wife is out of control and she had to stop drinking.

So I just kept it to myself and it was so hard.

I, you know, I told my family, but I I didn't go to meetings.

I wanted to.

And whenever I would mention it, he was like, What if a patient of ours is there?

What if a friend of ours is there?

And I was like, Yeah, that means they're there.

They have the same problem.

But no, he was really against it.

And so that was really tough.

But luckily, I did have my brother.

My brother was in AA, and so we talked a lot about AA and recovery.

That was definitely an issue that I didn't have a sober community.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

No, so I mean, first and foremost, I mean, that's incredible that you were able to basically do it yourself.

I mean, especially with a lifetime of drinking up to this point, basically.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and for sure.

I mean, it it sounds like I just woke up one day and quit, but it was really tough.

And I had been thinking about it for, you know, m maybe over a year.

And so it was really tough.

The first week or two, maybe even first three months were tough, like physically tough.

Learning to manage my anxiety without alcohol was really the hardest thing I've ever done, I think.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

Now, what did life kind of look like for you after this?

After getting sober, did how did life change in in many different facets from relationships to just your personal life?

SPEAKER_01: My life was amazing.

And so I felt great.

I started exercising, I started eating better.

You kind of want to treat your body better.

I started volunteering.

I started, you know, I'm really into DIY.

And so I was doing tons of like crafts and DIY projects around my house.

And really taking all that time that I had spent drinking and channeling it, I started doing a certificate in photography.

And it was amazing.

And I was, yeah, I really kind of loving my life.

And then probably a few years into the sobriety and after the sale, I started writing about my sobriety a little bit and thought, huh, I do have something to say.

I have something to say.

And really liked writing about it.

And I would like post it on like my medium page.

And then I was like, well, maybe I should take some writing classes.

Started taking writing classes and writing about it more.

And I would have my husband like edit, and I realized like probably too late, but he was like editing for like grammar, right?

Fine.

But he didn't comment on the on the meat of the whatever I had written.

He really didn't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00: Now, he didn't have a problem with you writing about it.

SPEAKER_01: I think he did.

I think he really didn't vocalize a problem.

And I think this is sort of the issue with relationships in sobriety is that you have to be communicating all the time, right?

This is a major lifestyle shift.

And I think that that's sort of where I went wrong is I didn't ask him how he felt about my sobriety.

I didn't, I just didn't, or about me writing about it or telling people about it.

I just didn't ask.

I just assumed it was okay.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Yeah.

What would end up happening with your marriage?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

So kind of went on like it was funny.

I was like in the middle of writing something, and he had been kind of miserable for a while.

So he didn't have the same reaction to selling the business that I did.

It was not the world opening up.

It was like the world closed for him.

And his life got very, very like small.

And all he really cared about was starting another business.

He couldn't figure out what he wanted to do.

Then he got really deep into crypto.

You know, we all know how that turned out.

And so he was, I would say, like not growing that much.

But if he was, it was in a different direction.

And so he had been really miserable for a couple of weeks.

He's like, I hate my life.

I don't feel like I have a purpose.

Never anything about the relationship.

Never said there was anything about the relationship.

And then one day he just woke up and he said, I think it's you.

I think that you are, you know, too happy with your family.

I have an amazing, not a very typical family structure, but I have like three nieces, two sister-in-laws that are my main family structure.

And I loved being around them, especially sober.

Who wants to be around teenagers when you're drunk?

Right.

And so, and then one was, you know, younger than that.

And so I was really happy.

And at that time, we were living in New York, and they had all come to visit in New York the weeks before this.

And uh, it was really fun.

And he said, You're just happy with too little.

You're just, you know, I wasn't interested in making that much more money.

I was really thrilled with where we were financially.

I loved my dogs.

I just really liked my life.

And no, I wasn't striving, you know, for that much more.

And I think that, you know, in his defense, I had been a striver my whole life and our whole relationship.

And then all of a sudden, you know, I was like, I'm really happy.

I'm just gonna just gonna coast here and do this.

And and something will pop up that I really want to do, and I'll do it.

And uh yeah, and he left.

He left like really abruptly, and that was devastating.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can imagine.

But basically, basically, it sounded like a situation where you were happy, he was not.

You you had kind of found found the blessings in in this life and in you make improvements to yourself where he didn't.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that is sort of the like cliff notes of it, is what that's what it looks like.

And unfortunately, I never got an explanation.

He disappeared.

So he left that day and slowly just started decreasing communication until within a month he hadn't come back and he had stopped texting.

And I never heard from him again after 18 years.

I still to this day have not heard from him.

SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's weird.

That's weird, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.

I reached out and, like, you know, with like final kind of texts, like, not sure what to do here, haven't heard from you.

Uh gonna gonna contact a lawyer.

Nothing.

And the best, this is actually this, and there's very little that's funny about this, but what is funny is that because we weren't in communication, I had to serve him divorce papers by using his DoorDash app and seeing where he was having food delivered.

Oh wow.

And like and cross-checking it with like his Uber, like our Uber and you know, DoorDash apps.

And like, okay, he's been here for two days.

Let's go.

SPEAKER_00: Wow.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

So I can laugh at it now, but at the time, oh my God.

SPEAKER_00: I can only imagine my gosh.

I don't know where this fits into this timeline, if it was before or after, but I wanted to ask you about a specific birthday when you turned 45.

Oh.

I would love for you to tell me a little bit about the significance of that birthday.

SPEAKER_01: So that was this past year, 2023.

And so, yeah, after he left, I really struggled with my sobriety a lot and didn't know how I would stay sober and was just like, This, what did I do this for?

Like, what was the point?

I'm miserable.

Like, I have no life.

Like, you know, this person who I'd built my life around is gone.

And so, you know, it took, it took a lot to kind of stay sober.

And I did, and you know, went to meetings and like just talked about it a lot with my family.

Like, I feel like drinking, I feel like doing drugs and and just kind of really back to that day-to-day, like right one day at a time, like really went right back to it.

After five years, I was struggling every day.

So a couple of years later, I turned 45 and and I always say to my family, I'm like, I wish I was further along, like in this healing kind of process.

I wish I was further along.

I wish I was further along.

Because, you know, I really haven't like had a relationship since, and you know, that type of thing.

But what I had done is I had got an apartment in Toronto where my family was, which I would never have done if I was still married.

And and I had started a company that does sobriety, like offers women's groups, sobriety groups.

And so I had a meeting that day on my birthday with, you know, with the ladies.

And then my nieces and my sister-in-law were like, Well, come take you to dinner.

I'm like, Yeah, but my meeting's till like eight.

I have to walk my dogs after.

By the time I'm gonna be ready to go, it'll be almost nine.

They're like, No, we're coming.

And so yeah, we went to a vegan restaurant.

And I remember just sitting there at like 10 o'clock on my birthday, on my 45th birthday, being like, This would have been impossible six, seven years ago.

It would have been impossible three years ago when I was still married.

Like this thing that like is giving me so much joy, this like moment would have not been possible, right?

So if I had been drinking, I would have been on my 45th birthday at 10 p.m., I would be blackout drunk if I was still drinking.

And if I was with my ex, like we would probably be at some like fancy hotel that he had picked at a fancy restaurant that he had picked, and which wasn't really me either.

And so, yeah, this moment just like crystallized like in my mind where I thought, I love these people so much.

Like, this is unconditional love too, right?

Like, they're not gonna leave.

They're not gonna leave.

They're they're okay that I'm happy with too little.

They're proud of me that I'm sober.

And yeah, I remember getting back home and getting in bed and just being like, I'm so lucky.

Like, I'm not like look, it still really hurts that I lost my husband.

Well, lost is kind of like that.

My husband left.

And you know, that that life will never be the same, but like it's different and it's like really, really still good.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so it's so beautiful, it's so powerful.

That whole story.

And yet I understand also the the heartbreak as well.

That's understandable.

But but to have that powerful realization of even just the difference between being sober to where you had been.

And I would assume you kind of open your eyes to maybe what you had been missing out on.

SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.

Yeah.

I mean, if you think about like when you're drinking, like part of you has that shame of knowing that what you're doing is hurting you and people around you.

And so you have this tendency to isolate, especially from people you're really close to.

So I had isolated myself from my nieces and my sister-in-laws during that period.

So it that was so when I say like, I wish I was further along, like I am, I am for like I have like a lot of things have changed.

I am just still like a little bit heartbroken, but things have changed.

Thing, things are good.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, amazing.

Talk to me a little bit.

You you mentioned it briefly when you were sharing the story about your 45th birthday.

Talk to me about this this business, this company, organization, whatever it's called, that does the groups.

What led to that?

What is it?

Tell me all about it.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

So that was like just directly out of a need that I had when the divorce was happening, like during this breakup.

I really needed sober support.

And I knew it.

I like I felt very like I knew intuitively like I need other people that have gone through this.

And so I would check out meetings online, and that was another thing, right?

Like I travel a bit to Toronto and back to Pennsylvania, and I want to be free to like, you know, go and see a friend.

And so I didn't want an in-person meeting, but I wanted something online, but not impersonal.

I still wanted to make connections.

And the meetings that I went to, just that's not the point.

The point is to share your story and then move to the next story, right?

The point is not to get feedback on your story.

And the model is a drop-in.

So it's inconsistent, the people that are there.

So some days there would be like 250 people on a call, and some days there would be like 75.

And you don't recognize any of them.

They kind of change.

And I thought, this is not me.

Like I need people who who know me a little bit, right?

And so I need some consistency.

And and part of it too is I didn't want to repeat this sob story every time I shared.

Like, and by the way, my husband left.

And by the way, you know, I feel like drinking.

I needed some sort of like continuity.

And so I couldn't find it.

I looked everywhere for, you know, kind of consistent, sober groups.

And it's just not what, you know, it's not what AA, for example, is about.

A lot of things are based around that.

That's not that it that's a come one, come all.

And I love that about AA, but I needed something a little bit different.

Like there should be somewhere everyone can go at any hour of the day.

I just needed something different.

And so yeah, I made it where we, you know, we match people into groups, not like demographically, but kind of, you know, what you're struggling with.

And yeah, and you meet every week, sometimes twice a week, if that's what you want.

And and they know each other.

So Everbloom's been around for like over a year, and and a lot of these women have been there for the whole time and they know each other.

They'll say, like, hey, what happened with your sister when you had that talk with her?

Or, oh, hey, what happened when you went to this party?

And I know you were nervous about drinking and did you drink?

And so what I wanted to happen has happened for sure in the groups, and and probably even more than I expected, like that connection.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I absolutely love this idea because I'm like you, I mean, just the way that you describe the other style of groups.

I mean, yeah, maybe there's accountability, there's support in being there, but there's no one kind of, or more or less, like holding you accountable, like a family there for support.

So I love that.

SPEAKER_01: That's exactly actually that idea came from like my family when I both my sister-in-laws have been divorced from my brother.

Very unusual situation.

And I would say, my one sister-in-law I talked to every day and was like, I ate three tater tots today and a toast.

And she was like, She's like, that's amazing.

And I was like, right?

Yeah, because yesterday I didn't eat almost anything.

Uh, I think I had a yogurt yesterday.

And so that's like, and so that idea came to me that that's what I needed.

I needed someone to say that my tater tots were amazing, that that was a step up.

And the only reason she knew that is because she knew the weeks before I hadn't been eating that much and that I'd been nauseous.

And so just that, yeah, it was something about that that really hit me.

I was like, that's what I need.

I need that, but in a sober community.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

Talking about your sister-in-law, you and one of your sister-in-law, you have a podcast.

SPEAKER_01: We do.

We have a podcast called Sisters in Sobriety.

And it really came out of me meeting with women, you know, all the time and hearing the things they're struggling with.

And another void I found, which I didn't know existed, was a lot of women that I work with don't want to say they're an alcoholic.

They don't want to say they're sober.

They want to change their relationship with alcohol.

And so I realized these people need to be able to go somewhere.

They can't go to AA either.

And so, yeah, we talk about a lot of different things in the podcast and mostly how to change your relationship with alcohol and how that affects different things.

We recorded this morning about, you know, how does it affect dating?

Which, girl, girl.

Oh my God.

So yeah, or like, you know, it's it's just an in like we just talk about whatever kind of like we we set our topics based on things we've struggled with or things we have questions about.

And so yeah, I've I sure have struggled with, if you want to call it sober dating.

And so we we talked about it today.

And I actually I went through three of the worst dates I've ever had.

SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that is too the things you don't even think about.

Yes, I love it.

SPEAKER_01: Those things that linger, and you're like, what would I do if?

Yeah.

And so I asked her, I said, what would you have done in this situation when this guy started drinking martinis and getting trashed at dinner?

And she's like, I mean, you should probably get up and leave.

And I was like, okay, I didn't do that.

I probably shouldn't.

SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.

So my next question that I want to ask you is so at this point in your life, do you feel like you finally fit in?

Do you feel like you finally maybe found what you want to do rather than what maybe your parents, you know, thought you should do?

SPEAKER_01: Wow.

Yeah, I've never thought about that.

Yeah, I fit in now.

I, but I'm not trying to fit in with people I don't need to fit in with, if that makes sense.

So I so I'm a very like quality of relationships versus quantity.

So I don't have a ton of friends and a ton of people, but who I have are like so solid and so consistent and so supportive that yeah, I fit in and so affirming too, which is something I I never grew up with and didn't have in my marriage either.

And so yeah, I fit in.

I for sure fit in.

But I mean, if I went out like, you know, in the wild, like to a bar, like do I fit in?

No, probably not.

Probably not with like the the corporate crew that goes to happy hour at a at a bar in downtown Toronto.

Probably don't fit in.

Probably not.

But but I don't I don't do things like that very often.

I kind of, you know, I want to be around people that that understand me now.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

Now, what about what you do as far as your everyday life work?

I mean, you you've talked about this whole organization you're running.

Is that life?

Is that work for you now?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is that's what I do now.

And it is, I mean, I can't even imagine having a better job.

I can't imagine then I mean, talking to women about changing their relationship with alcohol.

Like, yeah, let's go.

Let's talk about it.

Like it is like, I'm so, so, so passionate about it.

I think because how I've seen my life change, and I feel like I also have some experience where not everything changes for the better.

My marriage didn't change for the better when I got sober.

And so, yeah, I think I have a really honest kind of like view of sobriety or you know, when you're using alcohol as a crutch and when you stop, like what happens.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

Remind me of the name and where we can find this organization for somebody who's listening today.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're called Everbloom, and we're at joineverbloom.com and we're join Everbloom on pretty much every social media, or we're Everbloom on every social media that's out there.

SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.

And your podcast, Sisters in Sobriety?

SPEAKER_01: Yes, Sisters in Sobriety.

I hope people check it out.

It's fun, but it's also, you know, there's some like inspiration there and a lot of things for you to take home and think about, like a lot of ideas to think about after.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I will be positive that both of those are linked in the show notes for easy access for anybody interested.

Lastly, most importantly, thank you for being here today.

Thank you for just sharing not only your story, but just who you are.

I think you've obviously become a really amazing, beautiful woman who's found where she fits in in life.

And sometimes that means fitting in just wherever you are, not trying to fit into a place or with a certain people, but you're who you are.

Attract the people to you.

And I think you've done that.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, thanks, Kevin.

I mean, thank you for what you do.

It's amazing how you uh pull these uh stories out of people.

And yeah, and it's such a it's so important what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, well, thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

And for you listening today, as always, my hope, my prayer is that something said here on the podcast can mean something to you.

So if you find yourself suffering, if you find yourself maybe where our guest was today, back a few steps behind, check out the show notes today.

Get plugged into her world.

Because remember, the most important thing that you can do when you listen to this podcast is to put what you hear into action.

My name is Kevin Lowe, and this is Great Race of Inspiration.

Get out there and enjoy the day.