The Butterfly Effect: From Selling Golf Balls to Podcast Guesting with Alex Sanfilippo

And he goes, I'll give you three dollars for it.

And Kevin, I don't, I'm not exaggerating.

In that moment, this light bulb went off, which I think was the first light bulb moment of my life where I was like, wait a minute.

For the first time in my life, I share that story, I realized, man, business made sense to me.

SPEAKER_02: What's up, my friend, and welcome to Grit Grace Inspiration.

I'm your host, Kevin Lowe.

Twenty years ago, I awoke from a life-saving surgery only to find that I was left completely blind.

And since that day, I've learned a lot about life, a lot about living, and a lot about myself.

And here on this podcast, I want to share those insights with you.

Because, friend, if you are still searching for your purpose, still trying to understand why, or still left searching for that next right path to take, well, consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from where you are to where you want to be.

Do you know the fastest way to make money?

It's to find a way to solve a problem.

Do you know the fastest way to find fulfillment?

Well, it's to find a way to gather people together, to connect people with one another.

Now, imagine you can figure out how to do both of those at the same time.

That's exactly what today's guest, Alex Sanfalipo, figured out.

What's happening, my friend?

I am your host as well as transformation coach, Kevin Lowe, and you are joining me for what is episode number 208.

First and foremost, I am stoked to have you here with me inside of today's episode, in which we are in the midst of this mini-series on giving back to podcasting.

Because if you are new here, well, I decided after launching into the 200s that it was time for me to showcase the stories of some of my favorite people in the podcast industry.

And well, we're dead set in the middle of this thing.

And today I'm in the studio with a guy named Alex Sanfilipo.

Alex was a kid who had entrepreneur running through his uh veins and he didn't even know it.

Because when most kids would find a lone golf ball, they'd think, woo-hoo, I just found my next toy to play with.

Alex San Filippo, he just found a dollar sign.

Because when a golfer came rolling up and asked him, hey, can I buy that golf ball from you?

He realized he just found a cash machine.

Now that was just the start of Alex San Filippo's journey, and we're gonna get to explore it from then to now.

But the theme with Alex San Filippo is the theme of innovation, the theme of family, of connection.

And lo and behold, this guy, Alex San Filippo, would find himself on the cutting edge of technology in the podcasting space.

It's been a journey to get here, but once he got here, he realized he found his place.

Because the podcast industry, although you may think it's large, it's actually not.

That's what's drawn me into podcasting so much, is that this space is so much like a family, everybody helping one another.

Alex, he figured out how to do that by helping to solve a problem, connecting people with one another.

And so you might be familiar with some online dating websites where you go on trying to find your best match.

Well, Alex took that same concept and used it for podcasting.

A matchmaking website to connect podcast guests with podcast hosts.

Brilliant.

Matter of fact, if you've been listening to this podcast for any length of time, the majority of the guests that I have on this show, I connect with through podmatch.

Thank you, Alex.

So we're gonna dive into a little bit of podmatch.

We're gonna dive into some podcasting, but more so, we're just diving into the story that makes up Alex San Filipo, an amazing guy with a huge heart who just realized that if you want to get ahead in life, you gotta give, you gotta do stuff for others.

And in return, you'll find success.

And well, I believe that's kind of a theme for Alex San Filippo.

It is my pleasure, it is my honor to have this amazing guy on the podcast today, and it's my pleasure to introduce him to you.

My only ask is if you enjoyed today's episode, consider sharing it with a friend.

That's the way that we grow, that's the way that more people find out about Grit Grayson inspiration, is by you telling them.

So if you like it, if you love it, and you think somebody needs a little bit more of it, well, please share today's episode with them.

And that would be amazing.

All right, enough of me.

Let's dive into today's episode.

Here is my interview with Alex Santolita.

SPEAKER_00: Alex, welcome to the podcast.

Kevin, it's an honor to be here, man.

You do such a good job of this show.

I've been listening to it all day while I was in the gym listening to it, and I'm just so excited to be here with you, man.

SPEAKER_02: Oh man, well, I appreciate it so much, man.

It truly means the world to me.

And so, Alex, I want to dive into your story.

And I and I want to start off with a question.

And you're welcome to take a little bit of time if you need to think about it.

Or knowing you, you probably already know the answer before I ask the question.

But uh what I would love to do is looking at where you are right now in life, when you kind of look back on this journey, tell me a story about the single moment that happened that has led to where you are today.

And that moment that when it happened, you probably didn't think anything of it.

But when you look back now, you can tell, whoa, that's where it all began.

SPEAKER_00: This question right here, have you heard the concept of the butterfly effect?

Have you heard that guy?

I have.

I couldn't tell you what it is, but I I've heard it.

So the idea of the butterfly effect was actually something that was at first a theory that was made the guy who came up with it when he was laughed out the door, and this was like a long time ago by a group of scientists.

Later on, it was proven to not only be correct, but 100% accurate every single time.

And his theory was that when a butterfly flaps its wings on one side of the earth, those air molecules move and cause others to move and cause others to move and cause others to move, which eventually create things like hurricanes and massive storms or beautiful weather, right?

Like it creates all that.

And people again laugh this person out the door.

But again, it was later proven to be true.

And that whole concept is the butterfly effect.

Something so small can cause massive change.

And so, like, even when you're asking the question, I'm thinking, I'm like, ooh, that here was the thing.

Oh wait, no, there was something else that led up to that.

Oh, wait, there was something else that led up to that.

Oh, wait, there was something else that we right?

I could just consistently go through that.

So, Kevin, to pinpoint the very first thing, I I can't I can't tell you what it would have been exactly.

I can tell you what caused me to get on the path that I'm on today.

SPEAKER_02: We don't got to go with the first thing, the most monumental thing.

Something.

You you you go with where you go with it, and I love it, and I'm here for the ride.

Oh, thanks, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Again, like I could go all the way back to thanking my mom for helping me understand how to like read and write, you know, like things like that.

But the the real thing, and by the way, thanks, mom, if you're listening to this, but the the the real thing, I went to this conference, it was a podcasting conference in Orlando, Florida, at the beginning of 2020.

So literally right before the whole world shut down at that point.

And I walked in with an agenda, Kevin.

And I'm not usually an agenda type.

I walked in with an agenda.

There's about 2,000 people this conference.

My agenda was this.

When I got off of stage, however many of those people would line up to talk to me, and I'm not trying to sound like prideful or like I was a great speaker, people are just nice.

They're just gonna say thank you, right?

So I knew somebody would give me the time of day.

If there's 2,000 people in that room, somebody was gonna say thanks.

And I had the agenda to ask them one specific question.

What is it that you as a podcaster are struggling with most right now?

What is the one thing that you as a podcaster are struggling with right now the most?

And I kept a pen and paper with me.

And what I did is I just documented what people said.

And I heard a lot of things.

I I talked to over a hundred, I don't know how many people, but over a hundred people.

Uh but 100 of them exactly said the same thing.

Alex, I'm having trouble finding the ideal guest for my podcast.

And that was the moment that I realized I was made to solve that problem.

That at this point in my life was my purpose was to solve that problem.

So that's the that's the story I would I would give, Kevin.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I love that so much.

So I I want to ask you some more about that, but but I would love for us to to kind of circle back around to it because I want to figure out how you even came to be speaking on that stage in the realm of podcasting in 2020.

So take me back, if you would, to early childhood.

And where did this whole kind of career path begin?

Because I mean, obviously speaking, when you were a child, you weren't growing up like I'm gonna be a podcaster when I grow up.

But it didn't exist yet.

That wasn't a thing.

Exactly.

Exactly.

So when did this kind of career journey begin for you?

Was it like a lot of kids where it's just after high school, you're floundering around, figure it out, or was it earlier on?

SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, there's a few things I'd like to share here.

That the first one was when I realized what I was good at.

That was like the first revelation I had of what eventually led to me starting a podcast.

And it goes back to the age of 10, believe it or not.

But that age in my life, I was a weird kid, Kevin.

I'll just be real.

Um you know what, real quick, I wasn't a weird kid, I was an awesome kid.

And I say that specifically because everyone who's listening to this, I encourage you, pause this episode, forget about Alex Sanfleebook for a minute.

Go back to episode 188.

You called it Embracing Your Awesomeness, is what I think you called it Kevin.

It was episode 188.

It aired on May 25th, 2023.

Man, that was powerful.

Younger Alex needed that.

I still needed it today, but younger Alex really needed that.

So again, everyone pause this.

Go listen to that solo episode that Kevin did on the same show.

Dude, amazing.

Thank you for that.

I digress.

Where was I?

Okay, I'll talk about myself as a 10-year-old kid.

But for real, man, that was really powerful.

Oh, well, well, thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

So uh, me as a 10-year-old kid, I had this, I was very self-aware, and I it's probably now weirder to even think about that.

But like I realized that growing up in this neighborhood, I had brothers and a ton of neighborhood friends.

It was like a super diverse neighborhood, but I realized all these kids were good at school or video games or both, and I wasn't good at either of them.

My brothers were all musicians.

I couldn't clap on beat.

I wasn't like athletic at all.

Like there were, there was all these things.

I'm like, okay, I'm a 10-year-old kid and I wasn't depressed about it or stressed about it.

I just realized I'm like, I just haven't found my thing.

Like, I'm not good at any of these things that everyone else here seems to just like really understand.

And then one day we were all playing on the golf course, which was across the street from our neighborhood.

I think Ken we all played on the golf course because our parents specifically said don't go on the golf course.

They're like, we're on it.

Um so we're all out there and uh a whole bunch of us.

And I, there's a golf ball just sitting there.

I picked it up and I was probably gonna throw it in the lake or something like that.

A 10-year-old kid, right?

What was I gonna do with it?

And this golfer rides by on a cart and he yells, he goes, Hey kid, what's that golf ball say on it?

I turned around, I said, Title is Pro V1.

And he goes, I'll give you$3 for it.

And Kevin, I don't, I'm not exaggerating.

In that moment, this light bulb went off, which I think was the first light bulb moment of my life where I was like, wait a minute, there are tons of these in these lakes and sitting all around the lake.

Will every golfer give me$3 for one of these?

Like, holy cow, we're not selling lemonade.

We're gonna be selling golf balls.

And so for the first time, I started just grabbing all the other kids in the neighborhood, including my brother, saying, Hey, here's what we're gonna do.

We're gonna go look on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

After school, you're gonna do this.

Hey, my younger brother, you're in charge of cleaning them.

We'll organize them in these bins.

Saturday morning we'll sit out here and try to sell them.

And we built a little business.

And I say a little business, we weren't paying taxes.

So, Uncle Sam, uh, if I owe you something, I'm sorry.

But for the first time in my life, I share that story.

I realized, man, business made sense to me.

The idea of organization, the idea of having a structure around it, of having a plan, like all that stuff.

It just started clicking.

And no other kid in the neighborhood really necessarily had that at that point.

Now, obviously, I was probably like like premature with like that skill set, and others probably have stepped into it.

But at that point, I was like, man, this is it.

And uh that was like the first time that I realized that like business entrepreneurship was going to be something in my future.

And throughout high school, I had all kinds of odd jobs.

I did some fun startup stuff, even in even as a high school kid, really loved it.

But ultimately where I ended up, Kevin, was I I did I ended up in big corporate.

I was in a in a company for 15 years in the aerospace industry.

And toward the end of that is when I got into podcasting, which I know you want to get into, but I want to see if you want to fill any of the gaps there or you had any thoughts before I just keep on rambling here.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I mean, so first and foremost, I mean, the business model that you adopted at 10 years old was brilliant.

You have a product that you don't have to make, it's free, you just have to go out and get it.

And yet you have these guys who it's it's kind of like the motto lose your ball today and buy it from me tomorrow, you know?

And I'm like well said now reason two, I needed Kevin as a kid.

Here we go.

That's that's awesome.

Now, curious, your parents, what did they do?

Were they entrepreneurs?

Or like what kind of you know, dynamic did you grow up in is, you know, as far as family, you know, with with careers.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

So first off, I had like the most loving, caring family.

Like I had an excellent upbringing.

Super thankful for it.

As a matter of fact, my parents were both entrepreneurs.

My dad was an entrepreneur in the aerospace industry, so he was like a big name in that, but he started off as literally nobody.

You know, I was a kid, I don't know how old I was, but the first few years of my life, I grew up in like a one-bedroom apartment.

And uh it's just that that's all we could afford because they were starting a business.

My mom, she always was like an independent hairstylist.

And so she was doing like all that stuff.

And even I can remember she would like people would come to the house because she had little kids.

She ultimately ended up stopping because mainly me, I had some learning disabilities as a kid.

And that made it pretty hard for me to like I would have never made it in an actual school.

So she made the decision to come home, which again, I just had the most loving, caring parents.

And like, so she again going back to the whole butterfly effect thing, I could have shared.

My mom helped me through school to learn to read and write so I could ultimately do what I'm doing now.

But I digress once again.

But uh, my upbringing was great.

So, like, even when we started selling golf balls, my dad was like, this is so cool.

Have you all thought about this?

Have you thought about that?

My mom was always like, Hey, make sure you all get out there, but just come back before it's dark, right?

Very supportive all the way through.

And I'm I'm so thankful for that because I believe a lot of a lot of who any of us come up to be is the upbringing that we have.

And uh they they really fostered a space of independence and uh exploration, just going out and exploring.

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: I I I love that so much.

Now, so we we talk about kind of this entrepreneurial spirit.

So I'm kind of curious though, because I think in my mind, it was that immediately after high school you you set off on creating a business or whatever.

But no, you actually go a totally different realm, you said.

So talk to me what led you down that path.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was actually a series of unfortunate events.

Let's put it that way.

When I was in in high school, I mentioned like I had some odd jobs.

I was, I started flipping stuff on eBay because I was like really early with that, and you could make a lot of money doing it.

It was super fun.

So I started doing stuff like that.

But ultimately, I ended up in real estate creating virtual tours of homes.

So doing like online editing.

I ran a remote company.

I was 16 years old when I started it, and I had, I think there were seven of us.

There were three editors, including me, yeah, and four photographers.

So there were seven of us total.

And they were going out taking pictures of homes.

We were stitching them together, creating these virtual tours that you could post on the MLS.

And we had the MLS access and everything like that.

So we were working directly with realtors and and brokerages to build it.

It was a great business, like super fun.

Absolutely loved it.

And uh again, working remote before that was really a thing.

But what happened is I turned 18 and thought it was so cool because I'd been doing this from 16, 17, and 18.

I'm like, I'm gonna start investing in real estate.

This is amazing.

Like, I love seeing the houses.

I've learned so much about it.

I'm gonna start investing.

So I started getting into that world.

Well, six months after I turned 18, when I had a property under my belt and a company that was based on a good real estate market, that's when 2007, 8, 9 hit.

And uh I went from having a really good investment and doing really, really well, Kevin, to being the most in-depth-year-old I've ever met in my life.

Yeah.

And to a company that no longer there was nothing there.

So people always ask me, Well, did you sell it?

No, I gave it to a partner that I had in it because I was, there was nothing, there was nothing.

And we went from doing like 30 to 40 homes a day to one or two a week.

And it just the the it wasn't there anymore.

So I'm like, cool, I'm the only one who needs to work here, right?

So I ended up just giving it up.

And at that point, that's the reason I went into corporate, because I remember I'll never forget it, Kevin.

I called my dad when I was kind of like at this rock bottom moment, I'm like, hey dad, like, I think I need to get a job.

And he's like, Really?

Uh I was like, Yeah, do you have anything like an aerospace?

Like, because that's again the industry he came from.

And uh he's like, I can get you an interview.

I can't get you a job, but I can get you an interview.

So he got me an interview.

And uh, before anyone thinks, when I say aerospace, I was applying to be a skydiver, astronaut, or fighter pilot, because that was not the case.

I applied for a job, which was a part-time receiving clerk, which was translation for I took out people's trash and broke down boxes.

And we laugh, humble beginnings, man.

Like, but it was that was so good for me because I had I started being built up with pride at that young age because I was doing so well to now doing really bad, upside down on everything in life.

And all I have to show for it was a part-time job.

And the truth is, I never let that get to me.

I never was scared to share it, but I needed it.

And uh yeah, so that's ultimately what got me into a corporate job, what was just that that doorway of being a really bad economy and me, honestly, being a young guy who was too scared to take any more risk.

Yeah, no, that's me.

SPEAKER_02: So now when you got into that, where did that career lead you?

I mean, because you said you did that for 15 years.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.

Thankfully, I went full time and my job changed a little bit.

Yes.

Uh so again, kind of going back to the upbringing.

Like, I just I know my skill set.

So I can remember when I was there, as soon as I kind of like got over my pride and got over myself, I was like, I'm gonna apply myself here and just see what can happen.

And now that this has actually been coined, Kevin.

It's called an entrepreneur.

Entrepreneur.

Okay.

It's like, it's an entrepreneur in an organization.

I think it sounds super cheesy, but like it's apparently a known thing now.

Okay.

So I immediately started operating in that way.

Like I worked in an organization, I followed the rules, I did all that, but at the same time, I was a very free mind inside of it.

So here's the example of that.

When I was that part-time receiving clerk, again, breaking down boxes and taking out the trash, I realized there's some trash cans that we had to empty multiple times a day.

And there's others that never get used.

So I started moving bigger trash cans, so the ones are always full, and moving this and putting smaller ones where they were never hardly getting used.

And when it was breaking down boxes, there was like multiple stations in the company where people would break down boxes.

I said, Hey, let's put it all on carts.

We'll wheel all the one central place so it's out of the way and it looks cleaner, and we'll break them down there.

And that type of thing just doesn't go unnoticed.

Like I was being proactive, even in a very small way.

But when the when people that are in charge of a larger, I mean this was a multi-million dollar organization this time and actually ended up becoming a publicly traded multi-billion dollar organization by the time I left.

But that, even at that smaller scale, didn't go unnoticed.

And so I was very quickly offered full-time and from there moved into other positions.

And to make, I mean, here's the thing, it's it was a 15-year career.

If I was to share all the little details, it's it's not Hollywood.

It was boring, right?

I loved what I did, but there's no like, I can't make it sexier than it was.

But over 15 years, I worked my way up from being that guy at the ground level to eventually becoming a senior executive.

So the C-suite level of the company.

It started with it was just a few million dollar company and ended when it was a multi-billion dollar traded, publicly traded company.

I ended up sitting at that C-suite level, and I was the youngest person sitting in that room with that group of people.

And I I cherished that moment.

It was it was a beautiful thing.

But yeah, that was over a 15-year period.

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's really amazing.

I mean, really, really amazing.

I mean, and and you know, I mean, I think there's something, I mean, to be said about that.

I mean, we we talk about entrepreneurship.

That's sexy, it's exciting, but there's also something equally incredible about getting to be a part of a massive company like that.

And especially in this time that you're there, watching it grow and taking it from the mindset that you did where it wasn't just a job.

You know, you you developed it into your own thing, and that's amazing.

And so 15 years in, and everybody thinks, okay, but now he's in podcasting.

What happened to him?

He must have got into drugs or something, you know.

That's the talk at the local diner, anyways.

You know, but it's a but what happened to poor Alex, you know?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Man, I'll I'll tell you what.

Again, I I thank that career so much.

And I want to give this little um disclaimer if I if I can call it that.

But uh, my last year, my last day of the company was my best.

I'm a firm believer that the same foot you leave on is the same foot you begin on.

I wanted to leave.

On such good terms that my next thing started off really well.

So I want to kind of give that example here because I'm going to share the story of what ultimately led me to leave.

And I don't want anyone listening to think the mindset of like, oh, Alex, stop trying.

Like, no, no, no.

I gave it my all until my last second of that company.

And the the proof that I did really well, and I'm still thankful of this, there's been two occasions where senior directors of the company have left.

And I left the company years ago.

I even just two months prior to recording this.

So I got called and asked to come back in to speak at another person's going away.

Wow.

Like party they're hosting.

So again, I left on good enough terms that they were, they have welcomed me back and I've spoken at the company multiple times since then.

So again, that's the disclaimer I want to give because again, I think the foot you leave on is the foot you begin on.

You end on the same foot that you begin on.

And so I just want to encourage anybody who's hearing this.

If you're thinking I'm like, oh man, I'm so tired of this company, give it 110% till the day you leave, because then you start on that right foot.

So Kevin, that's a little bonus for your doubt today.

SPEAKER_02: That was some Alex Goodness right there.

I love it.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, use that hashtag, everybody.

So, okay, so how did I leave this career?

Right?

Like to share that story.

When the company went public, at first I was like, and I was part of that.

And seeing that was amazing, man.

Like being able to be part of that, like what a cool thing.

Like I never, that's probably the only time I'll ever do that in my life.

It was just a really fun, stressful times thing.

But after we went public, I can remember I was overseeing five divisions of the company.

And one of my divisions, again, we're a multi-billion dollar company.

So one of my divisions saved a full 10%.

They made 10% additional profit, let's put it that way, over a quarter.

And I, I mean, again, we're talking at that scale, like, man, I was proud.

And so in my head, what happened is I walked down to my CEO who I reported directly to.

I walked down to his office and kicked his door in and bust out my cigar and my scotch and put my feet on his desk and was like, hey man, did you see what happened?

Uh in reality, I nicely knocked on his door.

I was like, excuse me, Paul, can I come in?

And you know, like, and so I was telling him, like, hey, did you see what we did in XYZ division?

And he goes, Yeah, man, I saw it.

And like I leaned in a little bit, I'm like, because I could hear the tone.

He wasn't happy about it.

I'm like, no, no, like, did you notice like we we we made an extra 10% profit in that division?

He goes, No, no, I saw it, I know.

And again, I could hear the frustration, but I didn't say anything.

I just kind of sat back and I'm like, you could tell I was just like, why are you not happy?

Right.

Like you could tell I was, I was saying that.

But he goes, Man, we didn't tell shareholders and we didn't tell anyone on the board that we were gonna have such a big thing happen in the last quarter.

He goes, and now I have to explain to them why we made so much and why they couldn't be selling the stocks at a higher amount.

And he goes, just don't do that again, not without us talking about it and being part of the plan.

And um, I was like, I understand.

I was like, sorry, I've never been in that situation where he's like, I know.

He's like, You're not in trouble or anything.

He's like, Legit, we just gotta think about this.

And so I remember walking out of the his office that day, Kevin, shutting the door behind me and walking back down to my office, which wasn't far down the hall.

But man, that was the first time I had an experience in that building where I felt like I was taking a long walk.

It felt like an hour, and I was walking just a couple doors down, really.

And man, on that walk that felt like forever, I told myself, I think it's time to go.

Because I realized I could no longer be that quote unquote entrepreneur in this organization.

Now I felt, although this is maybe extreme to say, a little bit like a cog in the system.

I was like, man, I just don't think I can do this long term now that it's like this.

And sure, I helped see it there.

Most companies, that's the goal, is to get to that.

But I just realized, man, that this is all I can contribute.

I I think it's time to move on, man.

And that was, if you will, the beginning of the end of it.

And that was about that was 12 years into my 15-year career there.

Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a really powerful, powerful story of realizing that it's time for me to move on.

You know, it wasn't that it was something meaning, you know, some some trivial little thing, or, you know, this it was truly a moment that that made you realize I I've got to do something more for me, you know?

And yeah, but at that moment though, you you still say though, it's still you were still there for another three years.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Yeah.

I'd I'd actually love to explain that.

I'm glad you brought that point up.

A lot of people miss that little detail, Kevin.

That hits that.

You're like, there's there's there's a gap here, man.

You're like, Alex, what did you do?

Um so I I I I immediately went back to my entrepreneurial roots.

I thought of what made me happy.

Like, what did I enjoy doing?

I was like, man, I gotta give this entrepreneurship thing a shot again.

And I I did what I still believe is good advice and a smart thing to do.

I started side hustles.

I didn't quit my day job.

And like I said, I continued to apply myself there, but I started figuring out, like, think about it, man.

After 12 years, you don't even know what you like anymore, right?

Like it's a it's a it's a full 180.

Like you got to get out there and try things again.

So I started all these like, for lack of better terms, side hustles, which just means in my free time, I was like, well, I'll start a blog.

And that's one of the things I did.

I started trying a podcast, which by the way failed and later on worked.

But I I tried like a bunch of little things.

I tried doing some web design stuff.

I liked work on computers, so I tried a lot of that type of thing.

I did some coaching, some, some speaking.

And when I realized, Kevin, is that I wasn't good at being an entrepreneur anymore.

Man, I got I got really intimidated.

I'll be real, like because everything I did seemed to fail.

Like I was like, man, nothing is working.

And the weird thing is if I go back to my childhood, everything I did, it's like it, if I touched it, it turned into gold.

And I don't say that in a prideful way, but like I just kept on hitting the mark.

Maybe it's because I'm a cute kid, right?

At that point from 10 to well, you're not cute at 17, you know, a 10-year-old kid.

Like, obviously, you're gonna give them$3 for a golf ball.

But like the thing is, I just realized, like, man, none of this is working.

And maybe I'm a corporate guy now.

Maybe I'm just not a good entrepreneur.

And along the way of that really starting to bother me, I decided, I don't know if this was brilliance or just I don't know what it was, but I decided to start a podcast for real instead of letting it fail.

But the the point of this podcast was it was called creating a brand.

I was exploring the art of creating a brand, which simply in my mind meant I'm gonna figure out what it takes to become a successful entrepreneur, how to leave a full-time career and pursue entrepreneurship full-time.

What do people do?

How do they do it?

What are kind of like what's in between?

I want to talk to people who have had that journey experience happen because I wanted the education.

And I was like, I'll bring people with me.

It'd be a fun thing, right?

So that's what I started.

I started that at year, probably year 13 or something like that, of being in the organization.

And the strangest thing happened, Kevin.

I learned what it took to become an entrepreneur.

And so through that podcast, which again was just a side hustle.

So I'd had a nine to five job.

Ultimately, what I learned, and I'll summarize entrepreneurship in way too few words.

So forgive me for anyone who's listening.

It's just like a like some sort of like serial entrepreneurial rock star, right?

But basically, what I learned in 158 episodes of that show, I learned that in order to become a successful entrepreneur, you first and foremost find an area of passion.

The next thing you do is you get into the community of that passion.

Like who are the people?

Get involved with them, find out a simple problem they are struggling with, and then offer the most simple solution to that problem.

And if we go back to me being on that podcast stage, how I shared early on, right?

Like I was in Orlando on that stage.

I was passionate about podcasting.

I fell in love with it.

And Kevin, I realized I want to be an entrepreneur, but I wanted to be in podcasting.

Again, my own show taught me that.

And then I got into the community.

I was speaking to the community.

I wanted to talk to them.

I asked them, what is it that you're struggling with?

And then ultimately, I created the solution to that problem.

And that is what got me out of the nine to five job.

That's what eventually at year 15 caused me to leave and pursue entrepreneurship full-time.

SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's incredible.

Now, where did podcasting even come into the mix?

Because I know all of us kind of have our own journey of even discovering podcasts and listening to podcasts.

How did that begin for you?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the first time I heard of one, it was actually at that aerospace job I was in.

I one of my departments I was overseeing at this point, I think it was 2014, was like the entire warehouse division.

So it was like the ship and receiving crew, inventory, all that.

And I was walking back there and they were all like on a lunch break.

And I was like walking back just to go say hi to everyone.

I was always that type of leader.

I love to be involved with everybody that I was that hired and stuff like that.

And they're all listening to audio.

But I walked back there thinking there was gonna be a TV on or something.

There's no screens on.

I'm like, what are you all doing?

And like, oh, we're listening to a podcast.

I said, what the heck is a podcast?

And they go, What we're listening to?

This is a podcast.

We're listening to it right now.

I'm like, you're sitting here listening to two people talk, and they're like, yeah, it's super interesting.

I was like, no, it's not.

Like I literally said that.

And like I sat there for a minute and started listening.

I was like, wait, who was this guy?

Wait, who's the guy who's interviewing him?

And like I started asking questions, like, see, it is interesting.

I was like, all right, how do I get this?

Like it's on your phone.

I'm like, no, it's not.

And sure enough, there's an app on my phone called Podcast, right?

So that was my introduction to podcasts.

And while I was at work, I remember that same day, I had like a project they needed to do that was like really tedious, which typically I would delegate.

But I was like, I'm gonna do this project, I'm gonna listen to a podcast.

I don't even remember what show it was that I listened to, whatever they were listening to.

I just loaded that one up.

And that was my introduction to it, from going from what the heck is this to this is silly, no one wants to hear this, to holy cow, this is amazing.

Are there more of these?

That was like my introduction.

That was 2014.

SPEAKER_02: Wow, wow, wow, wow.

That is so cool.

So cool.

Now, what I think is cool about that is I think so many people have the same similar words that when they're introduced to a podcast.

It's the same way I describe it.

What the heck is that?

Right.

Exactly, man.

And uh so no, okay, so that's super cool.

So now we're back up.

So you're doing this podcast that really started out as a way of you trying to figure out how to become an entrepreneur again, to get your mojo back in the entrepreneurial space.

And so you're learning these lessons, you're doing that.

So what happens then?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

So uh again, I figured out what it was like to be an entrepreneur, like what it meant.

Like, and I found that problem, right?

So I spoke at that conference, found the problem that I wanted to offer a solution for.

And this the solution, I definitely don't want this podcast episode to become some sort of sales pitch.

So I'll just quickly give an overview of what it is, and we don't really need to dive into it past that because it gets really technical.

But what I realized was missing, once again, people were saying I'm having trouble finding that ideal guest for my podcast.

Came home, didn't know what to do with that, Kevin.

Again, I only figured out like the first few steps.

I'm like, well, how do you actually do that?

Right.

And I'll never forget it.

I was actually outside, because at this point the world had shut down.

I don't want me to bring up hard times, but this was 2020, right?

So I was on my back porch working out because it's what I had.

And I believe I was doing it like a kettlebell workout.

So like I just having a good time thinking about this problem though.

Like, what solution would be the like, how do I help people find these ideal guests, right?

And I'll never forget it, Kevin.

It hit me while I was out there.

And I should give a disclaimer here, like I should say it wasn't the kettlebell that hit me, it was the idea.

I didn't hit myself in the head with weights.

Um, although some might say, um I'm getting no, but I remember putting down, like I was mid-swing, I put down the kettlebell, ran inside to something like I'm super sweaty at this point, right?

Sorry for the graphic description, everyone, but I had a wall of whiteboards in my home office.

And I was like, what rightboard this out?

My wife walks in, she goes, What the heck are you doing?

She's like, What?

What are you like you're super sweaty?

Like, and you're like aggressively writing on this whiteboard, like all across these whiteboards.

I covered like three whiteboards.

I'm like, I figured it out.

I was like, what people need is the same thing that at one point people needed to find someone to date, right?

And that's why we have the this whole sphere of dating apps.

I'm like, what if there's a dating app that connected podcast guests and podcast hosts together so they could record an interview?

And she's like, oh, that sounds interesting.

So I finished whiteboarding out.

I was like, wow, this is this is the idea.

So I called a buddy of mine who's a software developer, same day.

Just picked up the phone and called him, like, hey man, I don't have any capacity, but can I pitch an idea to you?

He goes, Man, I just ended a multi-year project two days ago.

He's like, I actually have time.

What do you got?

Pitch it to me.

And still to this day, this is how we describe what is now called PodMatch.

So it's podmatch.com.

And we say podmatch is a software that automatically matches ideal podcast, guest, and host together for interviews.

It works just like your favorite dating app, but instead of matching you for dates, it matches you for podcast interviews.

And that's exactly the words I said to him.

And he goes, This is a great idea.

I don't know anything about podcasting, but I trust you and your expertise, Alex.

Let's do it.

And so I immediately brought on the software side of the, like the guy who could actually do the coding, right?

The coder, the developer.

And I knew podcasting.

And so we just went to town working on it.

And man, I'll be real, I didn't know what I had gotten into.

But the only thing I remembered going back to like what I learned about being an entrepreneur is it's the most simple form of solution you can possibly offer.

So instead of making it overly complex and being like, well, they need ways to record in here.

They need ways to do post-production.

No, no, no.

We just said, can we just put the two people together and it works?

Can we just do that?

And that's called an MVP, minimal viable product.

And we started ugly, man.

We didn't have a, we didn't have a logo or anything when we actually launched it, but we just said, will it solve the problem our podcasters that we're passionate to serve said that they're facing?

And man, that that's what we set out to do.

And that was a three-month process.

That was March 10th, 2020.

And we went live into an early beta, June 15th, 2020.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, dude.

I mean, that's totally insane.

But you know why it works?

It's because exactly what you said.

It's simple.

It's so simple that you had to think to yourself, why has nobody else already done this before?

Right.

And you know what that was my first thought.

And those are the best ideas that we ever have.

They're so simple that it's like somebody had to have already done this.

No, they haven't.

I mean, dude, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, dude, it was super fun.

And we don't going back to the MVP thing, minimal viral product, that was so important because six months after we launched, there was some others that came up.

I feel like a bunch of people had the idea at the same time.

But when they launched their product, unlike ours, theirs was beautiful.

I mean, super polished, super clean logo.

Every page transitioned beautifully, right?

What we did is we went the opposite.

So we said, does it work?

Someone's like, dude, your logo is terrible.

I'm like, that wasn't my question.

Does it work?

Well, yeah, it works, but it's really slow.

I'm like, not my question.

Does it work?

Yes.

Okay, what's the next thing we need to fix on it?

So what we did is we started ugly focus on continuous improvement.

So fast forward to when there was some competition in the game.

So six months later, again, people showed up.

Their problem was it was beautiful, it was slick, it was sexy, but it didn't work.

And so we were on the flip side.

Now it looked good because we had a six-month head start because we were getting real feedback from people along the way.

So now not only did it work, which is the first thing we all need to validate, but also it was a clean product now.

And so, like, that puts you light years ahead.

Still to this day, years later, we focus on continuous improvement with still to this day.

But compared to what some other people have done to raise funding, which we never raised any funding, to them putting hundreds of thousands of dollars in it, they're still behind.

And I I don't say to be prideful at all.

And honestly, a lot of them are doing a good job at this point.

But I'm like, man, the direction we took is the direction I take, tell anyone to take.

Like, whatever it is you're wanting to do, try just solving the most simple form of the problem in the quickest way possible and worry about the rest of it later.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

But here's the thing though that people have to understand is that you are so awesome that you realize though that it's that's not enough.

And it's not enough in the fact that you keep realizing that people in the podcasting space they keep having other problems though.

Because producing a podcast, it's a lot of work, it's a big job.

And you, you said it earlier that you wanted to dive into this community.

And I can tell you from my personal experience that the podcasting community, it might be relatively small, but it's truly like a family.

And I want to know what was that experience like for you?

Because literally you go from this guy who was in corporate to now entrepreneurship and in an industry that's not competition.

It's literally like family, everybody trying to build each other up.

What was that experience like for you?

And how did that lead to you coming up with more ideas and more, you know, suites that you've added to the mix to help podcasters?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Kevin, I'm so glad you brought this up.

What an important thing to talk about, man.

Like, thankful for that.

Thank you for bringing that up.

First off, the interesting thing is that the year I got into podcasting full time, I don't know who let out, I think it was Edison Research led a report of like the total size of podcasting, like as an industry, the entire industry.

And the company I was at I was on the C-suite of was three times the size of the entire podcast industry.

Like, I mean, just think about that.

Like when I was there, I was like, wait a minute, I'm like, what the heck?

I'm like, how is that possible?

Like I was running a company that's three times the size of the entire industry.

But again, like I was no longer motivated by that.

What attracted me to the industry, like you're saying, like, why, why this, this smaller, more family-oriented thing?

It's exactly that, man.

When I launched creating a brand, like again, I tried a few years before to launch a podcast and it just totally fell on its face, but I didn't get into the community at all.

When I launched this show, other people with entrepreneurship podcasts said, Hey, Alex, how can I help?

Hey, can I share your episode?

Hey, can I can I introduce you to so-and-so?

Hey, I've got an idea for for somebody who can be on the show or someone showed you can be on.

Like, there's all this stuff happening.

And again, coming from big corporate aerospace, which is cutthroat is all get out.

Like when you're in sales, the person next to you is your friend, but they'll also cut you, right?

So you gotta be careful.

And coming from that highly hyper competitive industry in general to this one with an abundance mindset, man, I feel like giving everyone a hug.

Yeah, I mean, like everyone I met, I'm like, wow, we're we're we're family, we're friends, right?

And because of that, man, I was that's what initially attracted me saying, you know what, I want to be so involved in this because I love this.

This is a great group of people for me to be involved with.

Like so excited to jump into it.

And that was ultimately what made me decide, cool, I'm gonna keep on finding what people are struggling with.

So, to your point, beyond PodMatch and creating that, there's been other things, but I've I came up with it the same way.

I just asked podcasters, what is it that you're struggling with?

What's the problem?

Like, what else can we do?

And again, this abundance mindset, a lot of this stuff.

I'm just trying my best to put it out there.

If it can help one podcaster avoid what we call in the biz podfade, right?

Which just means quitting their show prematurely and no longer serving somebody.

Like if we can help them avoid that, man, I'm all into build some sort of solution for that.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it so much, Alex.

I love that so much.

Now, you brought up PodFade, and that that was one thing I wanted to ask you about was for my listener, if if you don't realize what we're talking about, we're talking about pod fade.

We're talking about that there's a massive majority of people who start a podcast who don't make it but past a few episodes.

And it's a big thing in the space of everybody trying to figure out what is with it, what stops people, you know, from producing episodes.

But what I would like to ask you, Alex, is from your perspective, working in the tech space, what is it that keeps people podcasting and not stopping, like everyone, you know, we're we're led to believe does.

SPEAKER_00: Well, how long do you got?

That's my first question.

I'll give you some high-level stuff.

How's that?

Yeah, I'll I'll make it, I'll make it actionable.

But to your point, a lot of people I meet that have quote unquote wanted to start a podcast, like, oh, but there's already so many of them.

And it's true at time of us recording this, there's just over 2.8 million podcasts on Apple Podcasts specifically.

But the thing is there's only just over 400,000 that are active.

Think about that.

That's really not that many.

When you go into all the different categories, like there's hundreds of categories, different types of podcasts, and you divide that up, there's actually not that many podcasts are producing episodes.

And Kevin, that was my first thing, man.

Like it was funny when I, when we launched Podmatch four months later, I was like, uh-oh, we have a problem.

I told my co-founder, Jesse, the technical guy, I'm like, man, we have a problem.

He's like, What?

I'm like, people are leaving so fast.

I'm like, something's not working.

And uh, so I started getting on calls with all these podcasters who are leaving.

And occasionally, Kevin, of course, there's the, I don't even know what to call this type of person, just the rude, mean person who's like, your product sucks, right?

So there was those.

And I was like, cool, can you give me any reasons why they're like, no, it just sucks.

I'm like, cool, not helpful, you know?

But the 90% or 99% even were people saying, Oh, I wasn't leaving your software.

I wasn't stopping using PodMatch.

I'm stopping my podcast completely.

And I was like, oh man, like that's sad.

And again, 2.8 million podcasts to only 400,000 that are actually active.

There's a big difference.

And yeah, man, so I started actually diving in when I was talking to these people about leaving.

I started asking them, I started collecting data instead of just having the conversation saying, oh, so sorry, see you, have a good life.

I started asking them, saying, Hey, can I ask you a few really pointed questions?

And I've come up with some true data points for why people stop podcasting.

And what it comes down to, first and foremost, is unrealistic expectations for a lot of people.

And you know this, Kevin.

When you first start your show, I mean, you're you're hundreds of episodes in now, so you get it.

Like you start seeing some traction at some point, but it takes consistency to get there.

And if if I could like try to paint a mental mental picture, everybody, if there's two lines running parallel, right?

One below the other, the top line is consistency and the line below it is results.

And over a period of time, if you just kind of follow those lines, eventually the result overtakes and becomes the higher of the two lines because you start seeing some results.

So it's a it's above it now, right?

But consistency remains the same.

And the problem is too many people like they look at it and they're like, oh, I'm 10 episodes in and there's only been 100 people who listen to my show, I quit.

We both have seen that, right, Kevin?

Like you've probably seen that a ton of times, right?

And so the truth is consistency is the first thing, but we have these unrealistic expectations.

So the first thing I say is educating podcasters to, hey, first off, if you've spoken to 100 people, podcasting is not like social media.

Social media has its place.

Podcasting is like people sitting in seats watching you talk on a stage and they want to be there every single week.

Now, you can't tell me there's a there's a room with a hundred people that want to hear you talk that you're not gonna go speak to, right?

Like I've ever, like, man, that's powerful.

That is powerful.

If that's the only people ever listening to your show, that is still extremely powerful.

And so that that was the first thing.

The other thing is there's just a lot of stress that comes with it because people don't really know how much work it is.

So there's stress that gets involved.

And it's like, man, like they don't know any of the tools that exist.

They don't know any of the people that can help them.

They're kind of at it alone.

And if you think about it, podcasting, because it's built on some old school technology called RSS, which I'm not gonna get into, when you launch, you're kind of in your own little world.

Like you don't really know what else is out there without putting yourself out there a little bit.

So you don't hear from listeners.

There's no way for them to like message into the podcast without you setting that type of thing up.

So for a lot of people, there's stress involved and they feel like they're talking to themselves.

So like I'm stressed out, talking to myself, saying no result.

I'm Going to quit.

And I'll admit that makes it really attractive to say this is a lot of work and pressure.

I'm just going to go ahead and stop.

Those are some of the main things that I think have caused people to pod fade.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.

Now, one thing that I want to ask you about, and this is directed towards my audience, which most of the people listening to my show are not podcasters, but they are people who are entrepreneurs.

They're people who are wanting to maybe do something.

They're starting a new business.

They're excited about something in life.

Or maybe they just have a story to tell.

Maybe they've written a book.

Maybe they have something that they would love for more people to hear.

Talk to them about podcasting as a guest.

Because I think so many times when we think of podcasting, we only think of, well, you have to create a podcast.

You have to be the podcast host.

But in reality, you can just be the guest.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you really can.

I mean, you're going with the title of your show, Grit Creation Inspiration.

Like, this is the inspiration part.

Like, we we can all inspire somebody else.

And I think that podcast guesting is one of the best ways to do that.

Like, you don't necessarily need to become like a podcasting guru like Kevin to have some influence and to be able to inspire people.

But being a guest on a podcast is relatively a low barrier to entry.

And really, most like here's the thing.

Like, perfect example is this interview today.

Kevin, you have not asked me one thing that I'm like, oh, wow.

Never thought of that before.

Right.

Like, no, you're asking me about my story, my journey in a way that it can help Grit's grace and inspiration, be able to continue to level up and right, like, and understand, like, but just feeling amazing, right?

And the thing is, that's what it is for most podcasts.

Like, there's very few that are going to show up and interrogate you.

So if you're listening, it's like, oh, I don't know if I want to be that vulnerable.

If you've got a story or a journey to share, or even a book to sell, which is probably based around some sort of life experience you've had, anything like that is great for a podcast.

Cause what really makes podcasts, I mean, powerful is exactly what we're doing right now.

And Kevin, you are an amazing interviewer.

Like this is a really good episode.

And that's all it takes.

And so, like, first off, you're thinking, I don't know if I'd want to do that.

Man, if you've got something that can inspire somebody, motivate somebody, help somebody go one step further, I think podcast guessing is probably for you.

And the benefit of that is maybe you sell a product or service, or maybe you sell like a book, whatever it might be.

So, man, yeah, I think that this is something we can definitely talk about.

I don't know what direction you want me to go in, Kevin.

Do you want me to share some of the tactics for getting started with that?

Like, what would be helpful for everybody today?

SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.

I would love for you to share for the person who's like, ooh, okay, I like it.

Well, what would be their next step?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Okay, so step one, first off, is start with why.

I always say that.

Like, I don't mean I don't mean Simon Sineg's book.

I mean actually sit down and start with why.

And my favorite way to do this is get a pen and paper.

Go somewhere that inspires you.

For me, it's the ocean.

I live in Jacksonville, Florida.

I live close to the ocean.

Kevin, I know you live close to the ocean as well, but it's one of those things.

It's like, that's where I go to get inspired.

Go where that place is.

Take pen and paper and ask yourself, why do I want to be a guest on a podcast?

What is the ultimate, what can I do to serve somebody else by being a guest on a podcast?

Ask yourself these pointed questions because that'll help you develop the story that you're going to want to share on them.

You'll never share the same overarching story twice.

You might share little elements.

Like I've talked about selling golf balls before on a podcast, right?

Those are pieces of my life.

I'm going to reshare them.

But in general, every episode's going to be a little bit different.

So you're not like coming up with a script.

You're just saying, what are the things that I know that are going to help people?

That way you have a plan that helps you understand what kind of podcast you want to get on.

What is it that you want to get out of it as well?

It's going to be in it for you, right?

And I do always say lead with value.

So it's like you'll get rewarded for the value that you show up to add.

But you got to think about all these things because a lot of people, they kind of go more of like a ready, fire, aim mentality in podcasting.

We're like, I'll get on them and I'll figure it out as I go.

That could happen, but in general, I find it's much better if you actually figure out where you want to go first.

Have that idea.

Because then a podcast host can say, you know what?

This person's got their stuff together.

They've got a story of grit, grace, and inspiration that's going to do really well.

That was me pretending to be Kevin and having him having him on your show, right?

Come on.

That's sweet.

But yeah, so start with why.

Write that down.

The very next thing I'll share right along with that is to just get some decent gear.

Like you, you don't need to go spend hundreds of dollars on mics and cameras and stuff, but make sure you've got a good setup that you're proud of.

A lot of podcasts these days, they're video audio.

I shouldn't even say most.

It's like half and half.

So it just depends on what show you're on.

But make sure you know, like, hey, okay, if this is a video podcast, I gotta be video ready, which means I probably shouldn't have all my clothes unfolded in the background on the floor, right?

Or if it's audio only, like you want it to be good, high quality, make sure you're not like sitting in a room with an echo or your dog barking in the background, right?

Like have some pride in what you're going to do.

And then beyond that, that's kind of like how you're gonna get there.

It's a matter of reaching out to podcasts because you can't just be like, cool, I'm ready.

Where's everybody at?

Right.

I believe that you're gonna do really well the more that you reach out.

And that's really important.

Like you got to put in the work.

And that's kind of some of what I'll share.

And we can dive more into that if you want, Kevin, or I'll follow your direction here.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I mean, I think those are perfect starting points.

And I mean, I know you don't want to be the advertiser, so I will do the advertising for you.

Is if you want to shortcut the process, you sign up for the best dating website there is where you can get married to a podcaster on Podmatch.

Well, hold on now.

Yeah, but just pointing here.

SPEAKER_00: There's no actual marriage happening.

I'm not responsible for that.

You'll get on a show as a guest.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Of course, of course, Alex.

You know, we get we gotta we gotta butter him up a little bit.

You know, we gotta get him excited, you know.

But but no, but but share with people though how podmatch works from their perspective of somebody just starting out.

How does it work?

How easy is it for him to get started?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so podmatch.com is the website, but Kevin does have he's a partner, so he has a specific link that'll actually ensure you get the best price of all time forever.

So make sure that uh, I don't know if you're gonna throw that in the show notes or something, Kevin, but make sure that you reach out to Kevin to grab that because that will always be the best deal you can ever get.

So thank you, Kevin, for offering that.

Yeah, where Podmatch can help is because what it does is a guest, it's gonna help you develop your one sheet.

So there's no guests on Podmatch that are just kind of like like oblivion.

Like you're just reaching out and being like, okay, so what do you do?

Who are you?

It's not like that.

It's developing what's called in the industry or in the biz, a one sheet, which means the photos that you want podcast hosts to use because they're gonna want to use that, your bio, that they're probably gonna read in the introduction of the show more about you, your social media links, your website, what you want your call to action to be.

Like if you wanted to buy a book, like you're gonna go ahead and position all that questions that you're always ready to answer.

That kind of help a podcast hosts usually won't use those questions, but it at least gives them a direction and ideas for titles.

So, like what idea, like what would we call this episode together?

Again, most podcast hosts will not use that, but again, it gives them the direction that you want to go in.

And one of the reasons this one sheet is so powerful is first off, it's gonna save you 15 emails back and forth, uh, which is always really nice.

But two, it's gonna ensure that you're getting asked the right thing.

Before I had Podmatch, when I was a guest on podcast, people would Google my name and sometimes they'd find old articles.

And so I have podcast episodes on things I never wanted to talk about, like how to build a procurement division in the aerospace industry.

Like I never wanted to talk about that.

But if you don't give the direction to the host, it's fair game.

They're gonna go Google your name, they're gonna find the weirdest little thing about you, and that's what they're gonna dive into.

If you say, hey, here's questions I'm ready to answer, and here's some ideas for topics, that's gonna tell them, okay, in the context of these things, this is what we're gonna do.

That's part of the onboarding of PodMatch.

So literally it's gonna ask you those things.

And if you're like, well, I don't have those things ready.

This is a great practice.

This is extremely healthy for you to do.

Take a few days and do it.

It says along the way.

And then when you're done, you're able to be seen by podcasters.

But again, do the work, put in the time.

Like that, that's how we get the result, is we put in the work.

So it's a matter of you outreaching to podcasters.

And Kev, with your permission, I'll quickly go over how I pitch a podcast I want to be a guest on, if that's helpful.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

So I'll make this real brief for everybody.

So I hope you're taking notes.

And I encourage you to take notes on this part.

There's a few things I do.

Step one is lead with value.

It's funny, I'm wearing a shirt right now, Kevin, that literally says the words lead with value on it.

So it's funny I just said classic.

Yeah.

I was ready.

That's my magic trick today.

Thank you, everybody.

My name's Alex, I'm flipping on town.

So you want to lead with value.

And what that means to me is because there's so many people pitching to be on podcasts now, because we're seeing all how powerful it is.

But most people start off with, hey, I'm this, I'm that, I can do this, I can talk about this, I, I, I, I, I.

And that does not do well for podcast hosts because what they care about is serving their audience.

And that tells them you're in it for you, not for them.

Leading with value, this is how I do that.

I immediately reach out and be like, hey, Kevin, just finished listening to two episodes of Great Grace and Inspiration.

I'm not gonna lie, it's gonna have some integrity in it.

I love the soul up as you did episode 188, where you talked about embracing your awesomeness, posted on May 5th, 2023, right?

Like, I love that you talk about being unique, being yourself, being authentic.

Like, I love the way you positioned it.

I liked it so much I left you a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcast.

Here, I attached a copy of that.

Here's the thing.

If you do that, Kevin, you can admit this right now as well.

If you do that, you officially have that podcast host's attention.

At the very least, you have their attention.

Yeah, right?

Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

Right.

It's a safe bet.

And uh I've been preaching this type of thing for years, and I've still only had one person ever do it, which is funny to me.

So, but I get the other requests all the time because it's a spray and pray method.

But again, you lead with value.

The second thing you do is you make a meaningful request.

And I can't tell you, Kevin, how many pitches I get where there's no clear ask.

Have you have you ever seen one of those like where they don't actually say what they want in it?

Yep.

Have you seen it?

I have, trust me, yes.

Man, like sometimes I'll read it.

It's like four paragraphs, and then like I just like stare out off in the space.

I'm like, I don't know what they want.

Do they want me to say congratulations?

Do they want to be on my podcast?

What is it that they want?

So a meaningful request goes beyond just saying, I want to be a guest on your podcast.

What that means is making it meaningful.

So again, if I was looking at Grits, Grace, and inspiration, I can go through Kevin's backlog, at least recent backlog, and say, hey, Kevin, by the way, I noticed you haven't had an episode where you talk about the power of podcasting in a while.

I couldn't find any in your in your backlog.

I would love to be the person to come on and talk about that.

Man, I just made a meaningful request.

And most hosts go, oh shoot, we haven't talked about that in a while.

He's right or she's right.

Like they're able to actually see that.

So you're validating, like lean with value, you got their attention.

Next thing is you make that meaningful request.

And the third thing is to offer credibility.

And a lot of people get this piece wrong because they think this is where the I statements go.

I'm doing air quotes there.

I this, I, that, I've accomplished this.

The truth is, the most credible thing you can do is mention somebody that you know in common with that person or something that resonates with them.

So, example, the first thing I do when I'm pitching to be on a podcast, I go to that podcast social media, and I see, do we have any friends in common?

Or I look through their backlog.

Do I know anyone else who's been on the podcast?

And because I typically go on podcasts about podcasting, it's real like inception like or meta, if you will, but because those are the shows I go on, I typically know a handful of people.

And so what I say is, I'd love to be that guest.

Hey, and by the way, if you want to ask about me, I noticed you had so-and-so on the show and so-and-so, and so-and-so.

They're all personal friends of mine.

If you ask them, they'll tell you if they think I'll do a good job on your show.

And I'd really love for you to do that.

P.S.

I always add something funny because it's just my humor.

I pay them to say nice things about me.

So let me know if they say otherwise, right?

Like I literally drop that in there.

And the thing is, because I offered that credibility, if they know, like, and trust that person already, I just bypassed everything.

It doesn't matter what my experience is, but because they also should probably know a little bit about me, I include a link to my pod match one sheet.

So my guest profile on podmatch, which is public facing, that you don't have to just be internal, it can be internal or external.

I drop that and be like, by the way, if you want to see more about like my experience and stuff, click here.

Because again, I can keep the email really short, right?

So, like, and that's important.

One of the keys here in these three things I just shared is keep it short.

Podcasters are podcasting because they don't like to read, they like to talk.

So don't make them read too much.

Keep it as short as you can.

And the very last thing I'll share, which I find to be really important, is to make it easy to say no.

And that's a bit of a weird thing to say, but a lot of podcasters, if you're not the right fitter, they just had someone with the same experience and maybe the episode isn't even out yet.

You don't want them to feel like they're gonna break your heart if they respond.

And most hosts just won't.

So they just kind of ghost you a little bit.

The best thing you can do is end with something like this.

Hey, no worries either way.

I would love to hear back from you, even if I'm not the right fit.

And I only want to be a guest if I can truly add value.

But again, would love just to have a little bit of dialogue with you, something along those lines.

And maybe you're better at wording things than I am.

And that way they don't feel like they're gonna break your heart if they respond.

And what I've learned is usually a no simply means not right now.

So you want to have that dialogue open.

It's not a have me on your podcast or never talk to me again.

You're dead to me, right?

No, it's a hey, let's chat.

Like, let's just open this dialogue.

And by doing that, you can have that permission to follow up.

And maybe if that's not the right show for you, they know someone who's is.

But doing this for me has got me on so many great podcasts.

And that's just a framework I've used, man.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it so much.

And and I'm gonna add one little thing to it is Oh, please.

Yeah.

I find the ones that mean the most to me are the ones that I know it's not just a pure template that's being sent out to a hundred other podcasters because literally it has personality.

As we talk, the podcasting space, most of them, it's like family.

So write it like you're talking to a friend.

I mean, be professional, but make it sincere.

Make it be honest, don't just send the cookie-cutter response because everybody sees right through it.

You know, for myself, that means the world to me is when I know, hey, this is like a genuine person who's like actually taking interest in my podcast and wanting you to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00: And that's so true.

I I talked to this guy who was thinking about joining Podmatch, and he emailed me.

He's like, hey man, do you think Podmatch will help?

I currently only get on one of every 100 podcasts that I that I pitch to be on.

And that that's an immediate red flag.

And I was like, Well, can you send me your pitch, knowing that it was gonna be template?

And he's like, sure, instantly responds.

I'm like, well, if you try making them individual, he's like, I don't have time for that.

I was like, and I just told him straight up, he got super offended and like left me a terrible review somewhere.

But I just told him, like, listen, man, like, I have a 97% success rate for getting on podcast when I ask.

I'm like, I get on 97% that I ask.

I keep that logged.

And I'm like, and it's because I take the time to individually talk to him.

Like, do you not think that if you just pitched two and got on both, even though it took you an hour and a half total, because he made it individual that would be worthwhile, more worthwhile than this?

And he said, No, I don't have time for that.

I don't have the energy for it.

Like, that's not what I'm trying to do here.

And I was just like, I can't help you.

Neither can pod match.

Like, you have to go beyond just the spray and pray method of like a templated pitch.

It's the days of that are over.

I mean, maybe that worked five or six years ago, but like now, Kevin, you and I both know, like, we that goes straight to our recycle bin.

I'm not gonna take the time to read it if I feel like you didn't take the time to write it.

Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_02: Exactly.

And I think the reason why this is so important is I think what people don't understand is when we get on a podcast as a guest, you're literally being invited into this intimate setting, this one-on-one conversation between you and the host.

And you're literally sharing your story.

You're, you know, you might be pitching your business, your book at the same time, but you're sharing your story.

And so there needs to be uh this level of of where the two of you jive, where you get along.

Yeah.

You know, and and I think that's the other thing is, you know, to not take it personal if if a podcaster doesn't feel as though it's a good fit, because maybe it's just the personality differences.

You know, they mean a lot.

I know for for myself, that's why, you know, I always do a preliminary call with my guests, is just I tell them, listen, let's just get on the phone for 10, 15 minutes, super short, mainly for me to be sure that you're as cool as your bio made you sound like, you know, and and that's what matters.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've done a good job of that, Kevin.

I just want to say that real quick.

You've done like the guests you've added on aren't good.

And I hope everyone listening, I hope you realize like podcasting is a labor of love.

Like, even if it's profitable, it's a labor of love.

And Kevin, doing those pre-interview calls are to ensure that the wall he has between the guests and access to you stays maintained.

And I think that the hosts that like you who get this right, have the best audience, the best tribe, the best community, the best listeners, because they truly say, you know what, I care enough that I'm willing to put in some extra effort to ensure that I'm not giving you anything bad, right?

And man, to me, again, Kevin, it just shows how great you are.

And by the way, anyone listening to this, if you've not left Grace and Inspiration, Kevin's podcast, a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, please do me a favor and go do that.

Like pause it real quick, go do that.

Because that just goes so far.

Because again, it's a labor of love.

And the fact that he's doing these pre-interview calls, even with guys like me, to ensure, no, no, this is right.

This is gonna be good for my listenership.

Man, that just goes so far when you go that, when you do that.

And if you're the guest, be thankful a podcast host is doing that.

Because again, it's they're not gonna waste your time, and they're certainly not gonna waste the time of their listeners.

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: Alex, man, first and foremost, I'm glad you made the cut.

I wasn't sure about gay two.

You know, I was a little, I was a little bit leery.

I thought, you know, this could get too, you know, it's a gamble.

I don't know about the dude, but I'm glad it all worked out.

You you weren't the whack job I was afraid of.

And um, and uh that's amazing.

And uh Alex, you know, truly, dude, I want to thank you in the most sincere way possible for for taking the time out of your day to be here on the podcast to to share your story and to provide my audience with with maybe a new idea that they hadn't thought about.

This idea of being a guest on podcasts and getting their story out there, their message.

I think it's an important thing because I find that there's so many amazing people in this world, and everybody has this amazing story and thing about them.

Even the people who think that they don't, they do.

And I feel like this world is just made better by us opening up and sharing and getting to know one another.

And being a guest on podcasts is an amazing way to do that.

So um, I want to thank you so much, Alex, for uh just just shining light on that.

Like I said, man, you are such an awesome guy.

It's a uh true honor to have you on my show.

And uh so thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00: Man, the honor is all mine, and everyone, thanks for checking this out.

I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.

Alex, thank you.

And for you listening today, you are amazing.

We think Alex is cool.

Well, we think you are cool.

And so don't forget to check out those show notes where you will find links and information that we talked about today for pod match, as well as my contact information.

Again, mostly I want to thank you for being here with me week after week on the podcast.

So, with that said, get out there and enjoy the day.

Now that you've got a little bit more grit, grace, and inspiration.