Australia to New York City: Chasing Dreams & Podcasting with AI

Like it was I don't know what it was.

I was just like, I I guess podcasts have a microphone, so I'm just gonna pretend I'm on.

And I was like, I didn't know how to do any of like I didn't know how to edit or anything.

And so if I made a mistake, we'd just like stop it and then start it all over again.

SPEAKER_01: Oh no.

SPEAKER_00: What's up, my friend, and welcome to Grit Grace and Inspiration.

I'm your host, Kevin Lowe.

Twenty years ago, I awoke from a life-saving surgery only to find that I was left completely blind.

And since that day, I've learned a lot about life, a lot about living, and a lot about myself.

And here on this podcast, I want to share those insights with you.

Because, friend, if you are still searching for your purpose, still trying to understand why, or still left searching for that next right path to take, well, consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from where you are to where you want to be.

What's happening, my friend, and welcome back to Grit Grace and Inspiration.

I am your host, Kevin Lowe.

This is episode number 202, in which we are starting a little mini-series here inside of the podcast.

When I was coming up on episode 200, about to enter the 200s, I was thinking to myself, wow, what do I really want to do?

What do I want to do to make this monumental for it to mean something to me while also maybe meaning something to somebody else?

And I came back to something that's kind of at the center of my life, and that is giving thanks, extending gratitude.

And I thought to myself, I want to give gratitude to an industry that has given so much to me, and that is podcasting.

I started this podcast just over three years ago, started it in May of 2020, and let me tell you what, I had no idea what I was in for.

I was leaving a career as a travel agent, a career that was ended by the 2020 pandemic.

And one of the things that I hated the most was losing the connections I made, the friends that I made in the travel industry.

I never thought I would be able to have something like that again.

And yet I was wrong.

Because the podcasting space is just like it.

Everybody is here building up one another, helping us grow.

It's not competition.

No, everybody is there for one another.

And so I decided that I wanted to kick off the 200s by giving back to podcasting.

And I'm doing that by featuring six of my favorite people in the podcasting space.

Now we're gonna get to hear their stories over the next six weeks, starting today.

And you're also gonna get to hear about their podcasts or what they do in the podcasting space.

I've got a variety of guests with all different kinds of backgrounds of stories, people who honestly might be just like you now.

Today, today we are kicking it off with a woman named Deidri Shin.

And Deidri has this incredible story that has us going all the way back to Australia.

Living in Australia, she had a great life.

Her and her husband, they were doing life together.

They had a thriving company, a dessert bar with multiple locations.

Things were going good until all of a sudden, as I oftentimes say, that they're going good until it wasn't.

And it wasn't came with a spark.

A spark that would ignite a flame, a flame that would set ablaze to the path that she would embark on.

You're gonna get to hear about what that spark was right at the beginning of our episode today, and that's going to really ignite our conversation in figuring out wow, what happened after that.

What would end up happening is she, along with her husband and best friend Bona, would be in America and they would find their way into the AI market.

Yes, they were into AI before anybody even thought about Chat GPT.

And well, they built their business around it, around AI, but more specifically, AI for podcasters.

She is the co-founder of the company Cap Show, an AI-generated copywriter just for podcasters.

Because when I'm not here on the microphone, well, I'm having to do stuff for each episode.

Like come up with a captivating title for the episode, something that's gonna have you thinking, ooh, I want to know more.

And so you click on it.

I've also got to write the show notes, the description, the enticing intro to have you wanting a little bit more.

And then, of course, there's all those marketing assets like social media posts and blog posts and LinkedIn articles and all the things at OMG, it can get overwhelming.

But luckily, with the power of AI and three awesome people, they figured out how to make it work.

And they figured out that you know what?

Maybe we can use our knowledge to help out the podcasters and to give them the upper hand.

I'm so excited for you to get to meet this absolutely phenomenal woman to get to hear her story.

Her story making some big changes in her life.

She made some big moves in pursuit of some big dreams.

And well, I'm just honored that I get to play a little role in sharing that journey with you.

My amazing flip.

With that said, I am honored to introduce you to today's featured guest.

Here is Deidre Shit.

SPEAKER_03: The moment, it would have been end of 2018, the moment that we found out one of our store managers, so I know we'll go into the background, but just hang with me.

One of the store managers of one of our busiest stores that we owned back in Sydney, Australia, we found out that he had been stealing from us hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And that was actually the moment, the catalyst, the event that essentially completely changed the trajectory of our journey and honestly our lives.

So that, yeah, when we talk about a moment, that would have been it, the spark.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.

I like it.

I like it.

We got juicy stories already starting.

And uh, so this is good.

So, so take me back then to Australia because you're not from America, you're from Australia.

Is that your home country, hometown?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yes.

So by way of descent, I'm Malaysian, but I basically, I think when I was a baby, my parents moved to Australia.

So I grew up, I have a very strong Australian accent, I'm told.

I don't hear it myself personally.

But uh yeah, apparently it's there.

So yes, very, very Aussie.

And yeah, I, you know, I was kind of the again, Asian uh background.

So very much had to do the things and follow the path.

You know, I um was cheated from third grade, I played the piano, I did all of the tests, you know.

I went to the top school in the state, I got it into, I did a law degree, you know, like I just I definitely followed the traditional path that any Asian parent would want for their Asian child.

And so that was me until I guess I was old enough to really, I guess, start to question things and make, I guess, my own decisions.

And and by that time, you know, a lot of I think once you get to, you know, university or de and definitely working, by that time parents are usually like, okay, my job's done.

Like you can you can kind of now like look after yourself and do what you want to do.

And that's kind of what happened, I found like, you know, I still did the thing.

So I had I got a law degree, got a law degree, but I actually went into banking.

So that was kind of my corporate career.

I was in banking, which is which was actually when I met Bonner, one of my co-founders.

But even before we get to that point of having met her, my husband and I had gone through sort of our own quarterlife crisis.

He was studying medicine and he was miserable, he was hating it.

And I knew pretty early on, I think that corporate wasn't gonna be the path for me.

And so we were kind of, you know, at this stage, it was like, well, what are we gonna do?

And he loved, we just moved out together and he kind of, I wish I could say that I was a domestic goddess.

SPEAKER_04: I am so moss.

SPEAKER_03: I could not cook to save my like all of these.

So Ash, he actually really enjoyed it and he really fell in love, particularly with baking, because I love my desserts.

And so he would just bake all the time.

And we one day were just like, you know what?

What why don't we give this a shot?

Like, no background in hospitality, no background in anything, but we were just like these upstart, you know, 20-something-year-olds who thought that, you know, we could conquer the world and we were gonna do it through desserts.

And so we opened a dessert bar.

It's called the Chockpot.

That was back in 2013.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_03: And it was, oh gosh, it was hard.

Like hospitality is one of the hardest, hardest industries, which we did not know because obviously we had no background in that whatsoever.

But kind of fast forward a little, it's it was also it was hard.

But I think that, you know, even looking back, like the hardest journeys are actually one of the most rewarding.

Because if we hadn't gone through all of that, like all of the pain and all of the times when, you know, we were battling landlords and, you know, struggling to pay rent.

And, you know, we would have, you know, the ups and the downs as well, like also celebrating those nights when we were absolutely packed, like the store was packed, and we're like, oh my gosh, how did this happen?

And you know, it was just like, oh, it was such a journey.

Anyway, we we had to actually ended up growing that brand.

We had five locations of the chalk pot, and then we also had burger restaurants.

So we had two locations of Staxon Burgers.

And then in 2018 was when we found out one of our store managers had been stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from us.

SPEAKER_00: That is devastating.

SPEAKER_03: It really is.

Like, apart from the money, I mean, obviously, it was and it's kind of like it's devastation on like so many levels because one is you know, he was very trusted.

We had put so much into we were even actually gonna sponsor because he was originally from the Philippines and we're gonna sponsor like him to stay in Australia.

Like, we'd put a lot into that relationship and we care so much about our team always.

And so there's that like that personal betrayal, but then there's also like, you know, when we think, and I mentioned before, you know, the struggles of like paying rent and things like that.

And when I think back to almost like like the stress, the the amount of stress that we were under for a long time because of what was like we didn't know that this was it was because of this.

I don't know, it just it almost feels like I I don't even know how to put it into words, but it's like it felt like that aging process didn't need to happen, like it's like, why did I age so much in this time?

And it wasn't even because it was just because of this person's selfishness or need or greed or what you know, whatever you want to call it.

But you know, and that just I don't know, there's just something in that that I'm like, oh, it just felt really, really devastating.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

I mean, you almost feel like like this sense of like violated.

Like it's like this person who's who's been in your life, been in your business, and then to be stealing from you, it's just it feels just wrong in every sense of the word.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is that's I'm gonna start using that now.

I'm definitely apt and an app word violated for sure.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.

Now, so when that happened, how many years had you guys been into this business?

Uh so that was five years.

Five years ago.

Five years.

Wow.

So I mean, five years though, you guys, I mean, you guys found some amazing success in it, though.

I mean, because I mean, there's many people who who start that type of industry and they fail.

I mean, I think that's probably about the worst business venture to get into.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I can confidently say hand on heart that it is.

I always tell people, they're like, oh man, wouldn't it?

I'd love to own a cafe or whatever.

And I'm like, oh, it is so not what you see on TV.

SPEAKER_00: Yes.

Yeah, no doubt.

So, so this happens in 2018.

Yeah.

And and you you kind of have your your world kind of flips upside down with this realization.

Yes.

What happens at that point with the business and you personally.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

Okay.

So gosh, it was it was a tough few weeks.

Like I remember actually, we found out on a Thursday night that this was happening.

And the next morning, Friday, Bonner and I used to do like weekly early morning yoga on a Friday.

And so I remember going no sleep basically.

If anyone knows much about yoga, it's a lot about balancing and things like that.

And I, because it's through the focus and stuff, and obviously, no focus, no balance.

SPEAKER_04: I was like falling all over the place.

And then, and then we we grabbed like a brunch together after that.

And so, and then she's like, What is going on?

And then I just like burst into tears, and I was like telling her, and she, you know, and she's such an empathetic person, she's crying, I'm crying, we're both crying, like it's just everyone's just crying.

SPEAKER_03: And I think the poor waiters were like, What is going on over there?

But so it was a tough, tough few weeks, but and I think it was it's a process, right?

You have to kind of go through the shock and the anger and and the denial, and and then sort of at the back of that, it's kind of like, okay, well, now that it's obviously accepted it, and and it's like, okay, now, now what?

It kind of in a weird way, it gave me permission to kind of think differently about where we were and what we were doing.

And so at that time, there were a couple of things that were happening concurrently.

One was that, so I was still actually working in corporate.

And at the time, I was actually kind of getting headhunted at someone who I'd been working with who was actually an AI company, funny enough, was asking me whether I wanted to actually move to Singapore to help open their sort of APAC region.

And so that was kind of on my mind to be like, oh, okay, like there's this opportunity here to potentially explore this thing.

But also, Bonno and I were actually separately exploring this fashion technology idea together.

And so my mind was already being opened by like this like a move is possible.

And there'd been this thing that happened where I've just like been like, I don't want to be doing this anymore.

I don't want to be doing this business anymore.

And, you know, but there was this great opportunity to explore something new with Bonner.

And so all of that came together, and that was literally, you know, you called it before the the spark.

That was a spark really to going, you know what, we have nothing to lose at this point.

Let's just move.

And let's not move because, you know, I'm gonna be shackled down into another corporate job or anything like that.

Let's just move because we can and we can give ourselves the time and the space to explore this fashion technology idea.

And what better place to do that than New York City, right?

For the merging of fashion technology.

So that's the decision that we made at the end of 2018.

SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, so was your husband involved in this decision or just you and both?

SPEAKER_03: No, he was involved.

Okay, yeah.

We always say he's like the third, he's actually the third wheel.

So I I'd been speaking to Ash about it at that time, and he's always on board.

Like he's, you know, you talk about Aussies being super laid back, he's like the quintessential laid back Aussi.

And he's just like, yeah, you know, because and I think to be honest, like the chalk pod and Staxon was very much driven by him and his passion, but I think it had also worn him down so much to the point that he had also lost his passion in it.

And so I think he was ready for a change as well.

And so when I I brought this up, and you know, like a lot of things that I do, it sort of starts as a very it's like a seed of an idea, and then literally like 30 minutes later, it's like fully like, yeah, okay, we're gonna do this.

And so what was really funny was I actually had to break the news to Bonner.

So because I didn't know how it's gonna work because we'd been working on this this business.

And so when we were talking about it, I was like, look, Ash and I have made the decision to move.

And she was so supportive and so happy.

And I'm like, but we're just gonna have to work out how that will work, you know, because if she's gonna be in Australia and we're gonna be like Southern Hemisphere, Northern Hemisphere, like the time zones, all of that.

And you know, the way that we were exploring it by way of like, you know, maybe it's not a bad thing because it's kind of like we're open to me for hours type thing.

But um the more that we talked about, I was just like, oh, and she always laughs about this because I'm nothing if not a bargain hunter, you know, that's an Asian gene in me.

But um, I was talking to the immigration lawyer because I'd kicked that process off for Ash and myself.

And and we were we basically on one, I guess on one application.

And then yeah, I don't know how it came about, but it must have been on my mind.

I must have asked the question.

She was like, Yeah, if you know, if there's someone else who, you know, a second application, then you know, we can do it, like bundle it up and you know, give a bit of a discount and stuff.

So so when I was talking to Von, I was like, oh yeah, and by the way, like if you wanted to, we could get a discount on your visa as well if you wanted to.

SPEAKER_00: You're like, you don't understand immigration office, they have a buy one, get one going on right now.

SPEAKER_04: Exactly.

That's a special.

It's like it's gonna end soon, so we've got to we've got to make the decision.

SPEAKER_03: But like, yeah, I we kind of it was it were kind of like a semi-laughing, but there was but then I was like, no, but seriously, why not?

Like, you know, in a similar way, there's nothing holding you back.

I mean, obviously there's family and things like that, but you know, there's you know, there's literally nothing.

And and I think she was just processing.

She told me later, which I didn't even know this story, but that she kind of went home and then she just like burst into tears.

And she was like, because I think I I knew intuitively that I was gonna do it, and all of the things that would come, which is like that she was gonna move away from her family and her niece and things like that.

Yeah, and yeah, so that's kind of that's kind of what happened.

We so yeah, so Ash was definitely involved in the decision, and yeah, so in 2019 we made the move, and I always say, you know, it was like my husband, my co-founder, and my cat in tow.

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.

Now, now you guys moved to New York now.

Had you ever traveled, visited New York previously?

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

Okay, so Ash and I had been, we loved New York every time we'd gone.

So we had been a couple times.

We actually got engaged in New York.

Oh, really?

Yeah, wow.

But um Bonner had never been, she'd actually never even been to the States.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: So she was totally just like, okay, well, if you guys say it's a cool place, I'll just go with it.

SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's incredible.

Incredible.

So you make the move, the three of you plus the cat, you move from Australia all the way to New York to pursue what did you say?

Something with fashion?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was a it's fashion and technology.

It's kind of like a personal stylist, you know, like it was kind of AI, it was gonna be AI driven.

It was something that didn't exist in Australia.

And then when we came to the States, we saw that there were probably a lot more people than we thought working on a similar, like not the exact idea, but a similar version of it.

So basically, yeah, we landed and we we did all the things like we hit the ground running, we actually were testing it by way of speaking to who we thought were our end users.

So we were going to the Columbia University Campus and NYU and young professionals on Wall Street, and we were talking to a ton of we're And basically, four months in, we decided to fail it.

We decided not to keep to pursue it because it was a problem that we were solving for, but it was just not a big enough problem that habits would change fast enough for us to actually make it as a sustainable business, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

So you quit this idea.

So then what do you do?

SPEAKER_03: Well, it's, you know, again, everything happens for a reason, right?

Because we were kind of a little bit at loose end.

We're like, oh, well, we came all the way over here on saving.

We literally had to pre-pay our rent for 12 months, by the way.

Like that was.

Oh my god.

And so we're like, okay, yeah, now what do we do?

So as we were testing this fashion technology idea with women without end users, we were also speaking to the other side of the marketplace, the suppliers.

So we were talking to a lot of boutiques and brands.

And, you know, we'd always be like, you know, what is your number one problem?

What's your number one problem?

And time and time again, it was all about acquisition.

And so we thought, well, we know that these businesses have this problem.

And we know that we can help because just being in entrepreneurship and, you know, the different things that we're doing in corporate and et cetera, like we have we actually have quite deep marketing expertise and experience.

And so we actually went back to these brands and boutiques and we're like, well, acquisition is your number one issue.

Why don't you hire us to help you with that?

So we actually by default ended up starting a digital marketing agency.

SPEAKER_00: Wow.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: Wow.

SPEAKER_00: How interesting.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

Because our timing is always great.

And COVID hits.

And, you know, they started pulling spending back, et cetera.

And so we actually made the decision to transition to coaching.

And at the time it was we were coaching e-commerce business owners with their digital marketing.

So how is it that they can, you know, build an audience and actually get sales for the back of that?

So yeah, that was in 2020.

And that was when I started my first podcast.

unknown: Wow.

SPEAKER_00: Okay.

Okay.

So let's just back up real quick and let's just give kind of a round of applause to resiliency to never quit.

Here it was, you were in Australia.

You guys had this thriving business happening.

You then have the rug pulled out from under you by this person who you trusted, who who basically was part of family in the essence with the business who stole all this from you.

We now decide to move to America, to New York, in pursuit of this one idea.

We then get to New York.

That ends up failing.

We give up on that idea after so long.

Then you're in the epic center of the pandemic that hits.

And then, I mean, and the fact that you did not run away and say, screw America, I'm going back home to Australia.

Instead, you are like, okay, let's pivot, let's do something else, let's do coaching.

I mean, I'm just sitting there thinking, like, wow, like, if anybody was looking for signs that this is not meant to be, you had the signs.

SPEAKER_04: Luckily, I'm also stubborn.

SPEAKER_00: Yes.

SPEAKER_04: I will ignore those signs and I'm gonna do it my way anyway.

SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that's incredible.

So, podcasting.

You you mentioned there at the end, you started your first podcast.

Yes.

What was that like?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was tough.

Tough to the point of like, because we had no idea what we were doing.

So the reason why we started the podcast was a mentor of ours told us to.

He was like, you know, if you this is the best way for you to build an audience, yes, but more importantly to find your voice and you know, really work out what it is that you want to be known for.

And so I was like, okay, cool.

I'm gonna start this thing.

I have no idea how to do it.

We bought this$53 microphone off Amazon.

I don't even know what, I don't think it was a brand.

Like it was like I don't know what it was.

I was just like, I guess podcasts have a microphone, so I'm just gonna pretend I am on.

And it was like I didn't know how to do any of like I didn't know how to edit or anything.

And so if I made a mistake, we just like stop it and then start it all over again.

SPEAKER_01: Oh no.

SPEAKER_04: So that was, yeah, my our first foray in podcasting, which, you know, again, I'm so grateful for those experiences because it's just it's the same thing as what you said, like the resiliency.

SPEAKER_03: Cause, and I fundamentally believe this as humans, we just as long as we just keep going, like we just don't stop, then we will learn what we need to to be the best at what it is that we're trying to be the best at.

So that's kind of what happened even with podcasting.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Wow.

So how then does the evolution into CAP show begin?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

So it's so if we still like so there I am, like, you know, I've just started this podcast, have no idea what to do, launched it, you know, it's kind of going, at least we're being consistent with that.

But then, like with a lot of things, because you know, again, banking background, entrepreneurship background, you know, things are it's like very soon.

I'm like, what are we spending all this time on?

You know, are we actually getting an ROI on this?

And we had like a like a handful of listeners, but it was not at, you know, it was it was not really growing very much at all.

And not only that, but it wasn't really helping us grow our audience and you know, obviously make money off the back of it through our coaching program.

And so I was like, we have to figure this thing out, like almost seemed counterintuitive in a way, because I was like, we're already having to market and you know, grow our business, but at the same time, we're also trying to market and grow this other thing, which is a podcast.

And so we had to kind of work out how that whole funnel like worked.

And then it was like, okay, now we have to, now we can just focus on growing the podcast because we're pretty confident that if we can grow the podcast, grow that audience, and importantly, nurture them.

So really use a podcast to create strong, know-like and trust with with our audience, then the sales and the money will come off the back of that.

We just had to fundamentally believe that to be true, which is really hard when it's not happening day one.

SPEAKER_02: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: And so we kind of just went all in on trying to figure out this podcast growth thing.

And so that's kind of what we did.

We, you know, nerded out on things like SEO and, you know, all of the social media, like the ins and outs of social media, and and you know, building an email list and nurturing our email list and things like that.

And it worked.

It worked to the point of like, I think it was the third time that we actually launched our coaching offer, the program.

It was in September.

And that was the first month that we did five figures.

It was actually to the point like I started getting these stripe notifications on my phone, and I'm like, what is happening?

SPEAKER_04: I feel like someone might have hacked something somewhere.

SPEAKER_00: Bona, we have money coming into the business.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.

What's going on?

Yeah.

Um, and it was the first, yeah.

So we did that month, we did over 25,000, I think.

And then fast forward that year, the first year that we actually had our podcast, we did over 223,000 in our business in that first 12 months.

SPEAKER_01: Wow.

SPEAKER_03: So it was amazing.

But then when I look at what we were doing, I was like, this sucks.

This kind of sucks to like be putting all I mean, it's great because we're getting results, but it's still it's sucking our soul and so and like it to the point that one of our team members actually left because she was like, it's too much.

What we were trying to do.

So that's kind of how we started exploring.

Well, we kind of know the framework.

We know what it is that we would want to build for ourselves.

Let's just go ahead and build it.

So that's how Cap Show came about.

SPEAKER_00: Wow.

Wow, wow, wow.

So so fill my audience in on what Cap Show is.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

So Cap Show is an AI-powered content marketer.

And it's basically takes your anchor content.

And so that could be a podcast, but it could also be a live stream, it could be a video, it could be like a vlog or something, some kind of audio or video anchor content.

You put that into Cap Show, and in under 10 minutes, it creates all of your content marketing assets for you.

So things like all the social media captions across multiple platforms, different styles of social media captions as well.

So we do promotional, engagement and educational style.

It does promotional and engagement emails, it does your LinkedIn articles, it does blog posts and the three highest ranking types.

So how-to, QA, and listicle blog posts.

It pulls out quotes for you.

It gives you a YouTube description.

So literally all of the written, the copy that you need to go ahead and market your podcast and really build an audience, uh, CAPShow does for you.

SPEAKER_00: Wow, amazing.

And here's what I'm sitting here thinking, though is I guess it's just the different brains that we have.

I'm thinking to myself, in my situation, podcaster, oh my gosh, there's so much stuff I need to do, writing show notes.

Okay, let's look for somebody to hire.

Not let's create a robot to do it for me.

And so, so I mean, but you guys were in that artificial intelligence space to begin with.

And so for the person though, who is like, okay, like I get it, but I kind of kind of don't get it.

Give me an example.

Tell somebody in a in a real life kind of world what's gonna happen.

Maybe they have a podcast.

What is this gonna do for them?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so oh gosh, I could nerd out on this all day.

Okay, all right.

So how do I do this without overwhelming?

Okay, so basically, I think about marketing in two ways, and I call it like discoverability and visibility.

And they're actually different things in my mind, anyway, the way the way that I use them.

So to me, discoverability is how do you get discovered because someone is intentionally trying to find something?

Call it a research, like they're they're going onto Google or onto YouTube or into a podcasting app and they're searching for something.

Essentially, they're searching for you, right?

That's that's what you want the answer to be.

That's like how to get discovered.

And so what CAP show does is we are very intentional around, you know, working in keyword, like being very keyword-specific, creating assets that are anchored to the long-tail keyword that you want to be ranking for, being found for.

And it does so basically when you talk about you know in-app discovery, when you talk about search discovery, when you talk about video discovery, YouTube discovery, Cap Show is optimized to help you get discovered in that way.

We actually have so Jerry, I don't know if you know Kevin, do you know Jerry Dugan?

SPEAKER_00: If not, I've got I know the name, but I do not know him.

SPEAKER_03: So he's a Cap showbian, and he was saying he tested when he first found Cap Show, he decided to test it on an old episode of his.

And at the time, even though it was like it might have been 18 months old, he'd only ever gotten like four downloads on that episode.

And so he ran that through Cap Show, and all he did was change the title and the description that Cap Show gave him.

And within like two days, it had jumped to 63 downloads.

And then I think in the space of three months, he had something like increased it by 867%.

It was something ridiculous just from the title and description.

And so that's the power of search and getting discovered intentionally, which CAPTSHO helps you with.

And then the other type of, you know, like when we talk about marketing and getting traffic is visibility.

And so visibility in my mind is really about how do you get in front, how do you get visible to people who are just exploring things?

And generally, this looks like they're on platforms like Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn where they're just kind of scrolling and they're not there to search or find anything, they're just they just are there to hang out in a way.

And how is it that you can become visible to these people?

And so, you know, again, with the the types of captions that we create, you know, even down to LinkedIn article, because you know this, Kevin, you're part of the LinkedIn newsletter challenge.

It is a big, big part now of getting eyeballs and visibility on LinkedIn.

And so again, Cap Show helps you create all of those marketing assets as well to help you get visible on these platforms.

So that's kind of, yeah, if you think about what do we want to do with our marketing, what do we want to do with content is to get discovered or to become visible.

And that's what Cap Show in a nutshell helps you with.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's just absolutely incredible.

Now, when you guys created Cap Show, was there anything else on the market like it?

SPEAKER_03: Not at all.

No.

Yeah, it was also to the point where we're like, maybe this isn't gonna work.

Maybe other people tried it and it just hasn't worked.

Yeah, no, so we were kind of surprised.

And just, you know, there's there was a little bit of a journey as well, a mini journey within the cap show journey where we, when we first came up with the idea, we were thinking a lot broader.

I talk about the podcasting journey because that's that is actually subconsciously almost what drove the whole thing.

But consciously, what was driving it was like creating content, like marketing, creating all of this organic content sucks.

And so there has to be a better way to do that.

And so when we first launched, like the first very first iteration of CAP Show, we had built it in a way that was going to be like for all entrepreneurs.

For all entrepreneurs, we would sort of prompt them through telling their story, and then Cap Show would take that and create a bank of social media captions and emails.

So that was we actually launched that at the very end of 2021.

So December 2021, we launched that and it didn't take off.

And I'm like, why?

Why is this happening?

This is like the best thing since sliced bread.

And so we were speaking to a coach of ours, and he was like, No, you you have to niche down, you have to know exactly like if you were going to go try and find this person, like where would they be?

What would they be doing?

And we're like, well, but it's all entrepreneurs, you know, they'd just be like out there everywhere.

And you can already tell how you know how not possible that is.

Yeah, so we kind of took that advice.

I remember going for this like long 90-minute walk because I was like, it's kind of like when you get told that, you know, something's really wrong with your baby, and you're like, oh, okay, I have to, you know, you just and so I had to take this really long walk and yeah, come back.

And I was like, well, we are podcast, like we've been podcasting for like the last two years or so.

Like, why wouldn't we focus on at least entrepreneurs who podcast?

And so that was actually when we made that first like mini pivot within Cap Show itself.

Yeah, and that was gosh, that was in March or April of 2022.

And we were very aggressive with our timeline because we were like, okay, we want to be able to launch beta in June.

And so it was kind of like all hands on deck to do that.

And so, yes, it was completely the first.

I remember going to Podfest in May of 2022.

We're at Podfest, and I remember talking to just a ton of podcasts and just being like, this is kind of what we're thinking of doing, like, this is what we're we're working on.

And time and time, people were like, Oh my gosh, you can help me write my show notes and do all this, like, and so the feedback was just phenomenal.

We had hundreds of people on our wait list for beta.

You were one of them, Kevin, I believe.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, I was, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: So you remember all of the the whole, yeah, you were an OG, right?

Right back then.

And so we went live, and I think you, you know, no one could log in.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04: And yeah, so we were 100% the the first in this space.

And it's, you know, it's good or bad being the first, but it's definitely been interesting for sure.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Well, I love it.

Now, what was the moment when when you yourself or you guys as a team really realized this is gonna work and this is gonna be big?

SPEAKER_04: Uh I don't know if it was like this is gonna be big, but definitely this is kind of gonna work.

SPEAKER_03: I laughed about the fact that, you know, we opened beta and no one could log in.

And we went live like six weeks after, so July 15th, which is why we're coming up to our one-year birthday.

We went live July 15th, and we're like, yeah, we're open for business.

And then we started getting people emailing and be like, I really want to buy, but I can't actually buy.

SPEAKER_01: How do I subscribe?

SPEAKER_04: And we were like, oh my gosh.

So the whole like checkout process was just not working either.

SPEAKER_03: So I think that was, I mean, it's you know, we always talk about good problems and bad problems.

So like I would just like to not have any problems, ideally, but I guess if you're gonna have problems, good problems are ones that you want to have.

SPEAKER_04: And that was a good problem that people wanted to give us money, but we were just making it really hard for them to do that.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

SPEAKER_03: And that was probably we talk about validation and and things all the time.

And even when I look back at the decision we made to fail in the fashion technology business, and what it always comes down to is currency.

And currency can be like time or literal money.

That's I think for me, when you know that you're onto something when people are willing to actually take their wallets out and pay you.

And so I think that was when I was like, okay, this is good.

Like, okay, we may have a sustainable business here.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

Now, one question that that I have for you, kind of in in AI in general, the introduction of chat GPT, of course, has just exploded.

It's like the AI world has just gone insane.

Yes.

Do you feel like it's all positive?

Or do you feel like there's some negatives to the sudden explosion?

I just kind of wondered from from your insider's perspective, from uh a woman in a tech space with AI, just your kind of thoughts on on this whole all of a sudden everything is AI, chat GPT gone crazy.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

And just to clarify, Kevin, your question is that as it pertains to Cap Show, like as a business or just uh in the world, like its impact on society?

SPEAKER_00: Honestly, both.

Both.

I mean, I had to wonder for you as a business owner, with with your product almost having something that I would view as almost a competitor in a sense, although it's it's not really, but you'll you'll get to that.

But then in the in a general sense as well.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So let me talk about, I guess, our like very acute experience with um with Cap Show.

So we, yeah, we launched July last year, and then ChatGPT really bursts into the scene, kind of, I'd say like really meaningfully at the beginning of the year, but it was kind of there, then last year.

I don't know.

For me, I tended to look at things as opportunities.

And so I was like, okay, this is cool.

Like I started getting into it and and you know, nerding out about, and by the way, I'm we're actually avid users of Chat GPT.

So like it's it's been awesome from some perspectives that we can talk about later.

But um, yeah, and then and then I just remember this moment, I was at this meetup, and you know, someone, I was just like, yeah, having this chat about Chat GPT and stuff, and etc.

And they they kind of like started patting me on the shoulder and was like, you know, like they're there.

And I'm like, oh, but what's going into they're like competition happens to everyone.

And I was like, oh, is that like really?

They're oh, I guess, you know, in a way, like they could be like that.

And that was when my brain started going into like descending into, oh my gosh, what is this gonna mean for us?

And you know, really like freaking out.

And but that was it was really good, actually.

It was really good going through that because every time that this happens, where because since then we've had, I guess, more direct competitors come onto the market because you know, ChatGPT and OpenAI has just made it so much more accessible, made the technology, the underlying language models technology that much more accessible.

And so we just it was just like an influx of competitors, quote unquote competitors targeting podcasters.

And so it's kind of like for me, I was like, it seemed like there's this bad thing happening, but I always try to like, you know, for me, it's like the only way that we can survive as entrepreneurs, honestly, is like to take the good out of what we think is a bad situation.

And so for me, there were a couple of like really Things that came out of all of this happening.

One was that we were facing, and towards the end, like at the end of last year, basically, when we since we launched, we were facing these headwinds of like, what's this AI thing?

And how do I trust it?

And what like all of these, you know, we almost had to educate people on AI and and what it is and what it could do and the the limits of it and and all that.

When ChatGPT became a big thing, we didn't have to do that anymore.

Like that was like the great thing is that we could just be go straight to like, oh, are you looking for an AI tool to help you with XYZ?

Well, that's us.

Just check, check us out.

You know, we didn't have to do all the upfront education.

So that was that was amazing.

And then the second, like, really great thing that happened and continues to happen even like now, and you know, I can share a little bit more about even what that that means and looks like, but every time that, you know, we're when we're forced, I guess, to look at new competition and stuff, you're always forced to ask yourself, how is it that you are genuinely different?

And at the time when it was just ChatGPT, I remember saying to, because you know, I was at Podfest at in January and people would be like, oh, well, how are you different from ChatGPT?

And at the time it was very much around like, well, you know, it's very obvious things like you can just upload your audio file or your video file, and we can do we do the rest for you.

There's also things around the fact that we're a narrow AI versus a generalist AI.

So, you know, we're very much the content that we create is very much on anchored in your content.

Chat GPT is very like, you know, kind of goes out to the interwebs and it learns on, you know, what's available.

And so it'll kind of bring back what it thinks will answer your question.

And so that you know, that that's a very key difference.

Then we've had, you know, more competitors directly in in our space.

And again, that's the same thing.

It's like we have to think differently about okay, well, who is it that we're trying to talk to?

Who is our ideal audience and how are we different?

And now, you know, it for us, it was like it was really, really great when we launched for the first time, being like, okay, we can talk to this really acute pain point for podcasters, being show notes.

I think you mentioned that yourself, Kevin.

You're like, oh my gosh, show notes is and so we did because that was the language that uh when you're a good marketer, you use the language or you use the things that people tell you.

And so, you know, very much when we launched, it was like, we will help you with your show.

I mean, we did a ton of other things as well, but like show notes was the immediate pain point that podcasters could like touch and feel and you know, like, and they'd be like, Oh, okay, cool.

Like, I get it, you can help me with this.

Now it's like every man and their dog can help with show notes.

So that's that is not a sustainable way for us to differentiate ourselves.

And so now we're going, we're honestly going back to our roots of content marketing.

Like that is where we started.

It's what we know, it's what we love, it's what we nerd out on.

And it just makes total sense now for us to come back to this as this is what we help you with.

We always did, by the way.

Like that's how we built CAP Show, but that wasn't really at that time, that wasn't the immediate need or language that the people we were targeting at that point in time used, if that makes sense.

Whereas now, because you know, everyone I would say has come up the curve so much around AI and specifically AI and podcasting and things like that, like that's no longer the immediate need or pain point.

I mean, obviously it's still a need and pain point, but it's not the immediate one because you can get that solved in a lot of places, in a lot of different places.

Now it's like, okay, well, I've had that need met.

I've, you know, I I've I've gotten way more efficient in my publishing process, but now I'm really looking for growth.

I'm really looking to get in front of the people that I need to get in front of.

And that is where we excel.

Like that's that's our jam.

And so, you know, that, but that only comes about when you're forced to really look at yourself and really question what is your value in the market and what value can you bring to your audience.

So, with all of these things, like, you know, I know that you originally asked about ChatGPT, and I kind of like give you this really big answer.

But in short, like that's kind of what happens regardless of what, you know, whether there's any changes in our industry, the great, like it's scary when it first happens, but then the great, like, only good things can come out of it because it does through that fear or through the the shock or whatever it is, like the scary part of it, because as humans we're adaptable, it actually forces you to adapt to the new normal and to actually become a better person, business, etc.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

Wow.

I mean, what what a beautiful way, honestly, that that you you just spoke about that and this this whole realm of of AI and Chat GPT, I mean, it's crazy.

And then you use it and you're impressed, and you're kind of scared because it's so smart and it's so amazing.

But but the way that you just kind of summarize that whole scenario, I thought was so amazing in the way of it's almost like that phrase of, you know, a rising tide.

It lists all boats.

Yes, you know, and and that's what I view this as.

Where, you know, and and I feel like I feel like the podcasting space in particular is a space of building each other up.

Now, of course, I don't know on the side of of tech teams, maybe on the back end you guys are all at war with one another.

I don't know.

But I know, I know from my perspective as a podcaster, there is no we we don't compete against one another.

Yeah, we try to make each other better.

Yes.

And I think it's the beautiful thing about this space.

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

That's honestly like why I am so so glad we made that decision to really go all in on the podcasting space because of the exact same things that you spoke about.

I genuinely feel so much like gratitude and love for the people in this because that it is just an industry that seems to attract really awesome giving people.

So, yeah, I I totally know what you mean, Kevin, when you say that.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.

So I have to end with one last question.

Generally, I try to get real sentimental, make you think real deep, but this is really just what everybody has on their mind is through moving to America, through going through the pandemic, through making business changes, you decide to create this whole AI tool.

You then go through ChatGBT's introduction, determining if your business is ruined, if your business is enhanced.

Everybody wants to know how is the relationship with Bona and with your husband?

Is that still intact, or have we become a non-friend and a single woman?

SPEAKER_04: No.

SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh.

Yes, it is it is still going strong.

I'm not gonna lie and say that it's like it's perfect, it never is, and we're constantly having to check in with each other time and time again.

Learning almost how to put in new boundaries as well, around time and around conversation types and things like that, and and just how we talk to each other.

But I think that's been the one thing that I've been so grateful is like how strong our bond is and continues to be through all of the stuff that happens, really.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, well, listen, I want to thank you so much for for being a guest on my show today, for for being a part of this series in amongst my podcasts, kicking off the 200s by featuring my favorite people in the podcasting space.

It is just meant the world to me to have you on here today.

And uh, I just thank you in the most sincerest way possible.

SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, congratulations, 200.

That is epic.

That is so cool.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, we'll well, honestly, thank you so much.

And I will be sure that for you listening, if you are a podcaster, or maybe you're just like, I gotta check this stuff out.

I will be sure that links to Cap Show are all inside of today's show notes.

And hey, you'll have to decide for yourself were today's show notes written by me or written by Cap Show.