The Self-Discovery of Heather Hamel: From Chasing Squirrels to Traveling the World to Designing Air BNBs

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SPEAKER_02: Those moments were so impactful for me because I was like, wow, here's two people that live in totally different cultures, speak totally different languages, and yet here we are communicating over Shrimp Scampi and like laughing and having a great time.

SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.

I'm your host, Kevin Lowe, and I'm excited to welcome you inside.

This is the kind of place where your glass will never be anything other than top four.

Because we choose to focus on the output type of life.

Now that doesn't mean that we shy away from the real car.

No, not a fair.

Matter of fact, we explore all aspects of life.

From the good, the bad, and the ugly.

But all of that is done with one purpose.

To inspire you to never give up a fight, even when it makes seem like light has given up on you.

Now I get it.

Light's hard.

So starting today, it's got great, great, and inspiration.

What's going on, and welcome back to the podcast.

My name is Kevin Lowe, your host, and you are joining me today for what is episode 137.

Hopefully you're doing amazing.

If not, I'm sorry, but don't worry, because today is gonna boost you up.

Because today I am hanging out with somebody who honestly brings me to a higher level of excitement for life.

A lot of people consider me somebody full of energy and excitement about life, always smiling, laughing, having a good time.

But then I meet people like Heather Hamill.

And I am reminded that there are some other people who got some life about them too.

Because Heather is incredible.

She's one of those people who, as you hear her talk, you can't help but smile just at her energy, at her enthusiasm for life.

And that's why me and Heather hit it off amazingly well.

So Heather is here today because Heather is actually an interior designer with Heather Hamill Design.

Now, what brought her to become a designer and the type of interior designing that she does is why she's here on the podcast.

Because, as like most of us, where Heather is today is not where she thought she would be.

Matter of fact, Heather was living the quote unquote perfect life.

She was married, had the job she had been working for.

Everything was right.

So then why in the world does she find herself waking up in the middle of the night, her eyes wide open, and wondering, what in the world am I doing?

Who am I?

What life is this?

This isn't me.

I've got to get out.

And that's when Heather changed directions in life.

You're gonna get to hear that plus all the other amazing things with Heather, including how she can help you transform your space into something that's gonna have you so excited every time you walk in the door because, well, it might just remind you of a vacation.

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With that said, it's my pleasure to introduce you to the woman of the hour, Heather Handle.

SPEAKER_02: I'm not really designing spaces for other people.

My job is really to help bring people's lives into their homes.

And so a lot of it is really just helping them sort out what they love and what their design eye is and what they see as beauty.

So I wasn't really getting the creative outlet that I was searching for.

And then I had a friend who was like, hey, I have this old shed and I want to make it into a little Airbnb, like, go for it.

And I was like, okay.

And I started down my, you know, sort of questionnaire of like, this is an interior design client, like, what are you looking for?

Blah, blah, blah.

And she was like, no, no, no, no.

Like, here's your money.

SPEAKER_01: Go.

I literally don't care.

SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, okay.

And I got like, I just felt this immediate ignition, this lighting of this creative outlet that I was so desperately needing.

And I was like, wow, like people, not that they don't care about their Airbnb designs, but it's not as personal for them.

And so I can take what the space is telling me, and I can take what I think would work in the space and what these people's ideal guest is, and sort of bring that all together and use my own creative design mind to pull a space together.

So it's really giving me sort of my own freedom, which I love.

And it's yeah, it's sparked this whole fire inside me, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

I love it.

I love it.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: So, so that that's absolutely phenomenal.

So, so now let's go ahead and and and rewind time a little bit in your life.

And because I'm curious to understand how this all even came about, getting into design.

And I know, as I mentioned, travel is a big part of your story.

So, so take me back to a time in your life when when you feel would kind of be the best part for us to kind of start with, to start just unpacking your journey.

SPEAKER_02: Totally.

So, you know, it's a that's a great question.

As far as traveling, I was really lucky enough.

Actually, I'm gonna rewind.

I am a Gemini, and I am very much a curious person in lots of different aspects of the world.

And when I was, I'm gonna take you back to middle school.

I was in middle school and I was in a public school where there was, you know, whatever, 29 kids in the class, and sweet little old me was in the back, just like laughing and drawing hearts on my notebook and like totally distracted.

And like I was the girl that was like, ooh, squirrel outside.

I need to go outside and see where that went because it's probably somewhere cool.

And like zero interest in academia at that time.

And so I made a really big decision to go to a private school for high school, and because I was like, I, you know, I can feel myself heading down a not so great path.

Like I was just gonna be, I was gonna be my free-spirited self.

And at the time that wasn't heading in a good direction.

So I was like, okay, I'm gonna like zip this up a little bit and just send myself to private school.

So I went to private school where there was, you know, seven kids in a class, and I literally had to sit down and pay attention or somebody was gonna notice.

SPEAKER_00: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: And that that opened up a lot of doors for me.

I still wasn't a great student, but I like being my C average, I always say is like my proudest moment because that just I coasted through on that, and I was able to really live a full life outside of it.

And that was what initially started my traveling journeys.

I was I got an opportunity to go to Egypt with my school, which at the time Egypt wasn't as hostile as it has become.

And I was like, yeah, heck yeah, like I'm going to Egypt.

Woo-hoo! And my parents were both like, oh my god, you're doing what?

What do you mean?

You're going where?

Like, neither of my parents have ever my whole family, actually, have never left the state.

Like they still live in their hometowns.

Neither of them had passports.

And so, and and that extends back to my extended family too.

And so it was like this sort of like, I don't know, free-spirited, really weird, strange thing that I was doing.

But I was like, no, no, no, I'm gonna go.

Um and you know, that from that trip, I it just sparked this sort of huge curiosity for the world where I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I'm very privileged and I live in a very nice area, and there is so much more to this world that I need to see and that I want to learn about.

And so that is what sparked my traveling love.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's amazing.

So, so I have to go back a little bit to something you said.

So, talking about being in middle school and deciding to switch over to private school, was that a decision you came up with?

Or your parents were like, Heather, we think you would be better in private school.

SPEAKER_02: No, it was a decision I made.

I I was a bit of a flight risk, to put it in in in layman's terms.

And, you know, my mom put I felt some pressure from my mom and from my teachers to sort of, you know, be better at school.

Apply yourself, apply yourself.

And I was just like, okay, well, maybe I'm just not in the right school.

Maybe these aren't the right people.

I don't know.

Maybe I can't, I don't know, maybe I'm not motivated.

I didn't know what it was, but I knew that I had this other option to go to private school.

And I was like, you know what?

I'm gonna just pick up and leave and try it out.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, I I mean, I just have to say, I mean, as a thinking of the in the mind of when we were in middle school, I mean, I have to I I mean, I have to just say though, I mean, it really kind of says a lot for you.

And even though, you know, you describe yourself as as this this girl whose whose mind isn't in school, you're doodling, you're thinking of anything other than than what you're in school for.

But at the same point, you know, you have this idea of your life and realizing, okay, maybe I gotta make some changes.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

I don't think I realized that in the moment.

I thought it that I was fleeing.

I thought I thought that I was being the cool person, being like, bye guys, like have fun.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

And and meanwhile, you had no idea that private school had way better field trips, apparently.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.

It's like, oh wow, Egypt, I'm in.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

So, so talking about Egypt, so so talk to me more about that experience.

And, you know, you kind of referenced it a little bit about seeing, you know, kind of how privileged we are, you know, here we're, you know, living in the United States, but but talk to me a little bit more about Egypt because I mean that is by far a bucketless destination for many of us.

So so talk to me a little bit more about that trip.

I'm just curious to know more about it and and its kind of impact on you.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I was a huge, I did I, you know, like most sixth graders, I did the cool report on the Sphinx, like, and how it was built, or like how they think it was built.

And so I was really obsessed with the Sphinx in specific, not sure why.

And then I got there and it was honestly a total culture shock.

Like I had never left that's not true, I had been to like Florida and like I had never left the United States and I had never seen that culture anywhere.

And so I was just, you know, I sort of felt backed into a corner where I was just like, holy smokes, like I just need to sit down here for a second and sort of figure out what's going on in front of me.

And I think that if I were to go back now, I would appreciate the history that's there versus when I went when I was 15, I was like, whoa, like this guy's touching my hair because it's blonde.

Like people would just these, especially men, came up to me and they were just touching my hair.

And they were like, and I was like, wait, first of all, you can't just come up and touch me.

And second of all, like, this isn't that cool in America.

Like, I'm a blonde girl, like it's not that cool.

But when you're in the Middle East, like most people don't have blonde hair and blue eyes and white skin.

Like, so I was sort of an anomaly there, and I was with another girl who was also blonde hair and blue eyes, it happened to be, and our teacher who is also a white guy, but at one point I remember being in a market and somebody literally offered my teacher 112 camels to buy me.

Like this is dead serious.

Like, no, like he was not joking, and my teacher was like, I'm sorry, what?

Like, what?

SPEAKER_03: What?

SPEAKER_02: And I didn't really understand what was going on, but now I understand that you know, that that's part of their culture and how they sort of that's how they I don't know, romanticize, I guess is I don't know if that's the right word, but it was just it was culturally shocking for me.

And you know, there was guys on every corner with big AK 40s.

You know, you'd walk down the street and everybody had giant machine guns, and you're like, wow, okay, we're here.

And then, you know, driving out.

I remember very distinctly driving out to the pyramids and seeing little kids, you know, in basically rags running around without shoes on with flies on them, and just being like, oh my gosh, like this is like somebody needs to help them.

And then having the realization of being like, No, no, no, like these people are are happy and they're living their life, and I don't know that they would want it any other way.

And that to me was what made me realize the privilege that I have here.

Cause I was like, gosh, like I have running water, I have shoes, I have clothes.

Like I have it so good and at the very base of my existence.

And I think that was what I you know, the pyramids were really freaking cool, and the Sphinx was amazing, and like all of like King Tut's tomb, all of that stuff is amazing.

But when I was 15, I was just like, holy smokes, this is not America, and I am I am a tiny little speck in a giant world that nobody knows, nobody like I am basic.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, no, no, no.

I I I totally get it.

It's it's it's the human connection, you know.

It's the it's that that that is just so powerful.

So now what what I'm curious about is what then about that trip, realizing wow, like in America, like I've really got it pretty darn good.

Yeah.

What so what about that trip kind of gave you, I'm assuming, this this travel bug though, to want to travel more?

SPEAKER_02: I think it was the inspiration to learn.

Like that was so shocking to me that I was like, wow, this is one end of the spectrum, and I'm at another end of the spectrum.

Like, what is there in between?

And what can I take from that into my life and my, you know, my being?

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, that that privilege that I acknowledge there of like having shoes and clothes and water, and it gave me a really deep appreciation for this life that I have and this world that we live in.

And I was like, okay, what else can I do?

What else can I take in?

SPEAKER_01: Like, give me all of this.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

So, so come back, you're 15 years old, you come back from this incredible trip to Egypt.

Obviously, you're still in school and stuff, but but what what kind of happens with life there?

SPEAKER_02: Nothing changes.

I came back and I was just like, okay, I went to Egypt.

That was cool.

And then, you know, like not honestly, nothing changed.

Like, I I mean, now I have done a lot of hard work to realize what that trip has done for me.

But at the time, I was like, you know what?

I am a 15-year-old girl.

I'm gonna go back to what I was doing, and I am now just a 15-year-old girl who went to Egypt, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: Yes.

Now it's back to doodling and jelly pins and what I've done.

SPEAKER_02: I was in high school, my my sort of, you know, I knew that academia wasn't for me.

It just like, it just never has clicked for me.

And but I was I was an athlete.

I was a three-sport varsity athlete.

So in high school, I was able to, like I said, coast through school enough that I could play sports really well.

And then that sort of elevated me in a different path, which was great because I'm like a very kinesthetic, I'm very in my body, and so I was like, great, I can be an athlete, and then somebody else can worry about algebra.

SPEAKER_00: This works for me.

I love it.

Yeah, I love it.

So after high school, did you end up?

Did you go to college?

SPEAKER_02: Yes.

So I went to Emmanuel College in Boston and I went there because I got a scholarship to play softball there.

Okay.

And, you know, I don't maybe my C average got me in.

I don't think so though.

But honestly, it was the same in college.

Like I sort of coasted through and I, you know, was an athlete and I did my thing.

And I my teachers when I was young always said I was a social butterfly.

And so I sort of lived up to that in college.

And then I think the next the next big thing for me was I decided my junior year that I was gonna study abroad.

And so I decided I wanted to go to London and I went for six months.

So it took up semester and part of the summer.

I guess it was like five months and part of the summer.

And that was really the first time where I was like, okay, I'm an adult, I'm gonna be over there by myself, making my own decisions and you know, sort of leading my own expedition through Europe, and that's what I did.

I, you know, I I backpacked through.

I went to like six or seven different countries while I was over there, and I hitchhiked and I jumped off dams, and I was like, okay, I this is I'm living this.

SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.

Yeah.

So now, I mean, how crazy is that though?

We're talking about a girl who comes from a family of generations that never really left the town.

Yep.

And so did your family think, oh my gosh, Heather has just lost it.

SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what they thought.

SPEAKER_02: You know, I think at some when was it?

I think it was like, it was like four years ago, was the first time that my dad, me and my dad sat down and we were just like joking or something.

He was like, you know, I'm just kind of used to it now.

I'm like, I'm used to you just being like, hey, I'm gonna go away for whatever, and just being like, okay, bye.

unknown: Bye.

SPEAKER_02: You know, because then the the first time I went to Egypt, they were like, okay, we should get our passports in case something happens.

Like, give me the name of everywhere you're gonna be.

And then when I was in London, they were like, okay, what's your itinerary?

Where are you going?

And that and now it's just like, okay, bye.

Bye.

If I hear from you in a couple weeks, I'll be excited.

SPEAKER_00: That is so funny.

Yeah.

So funny.

Yeah.

So, so like, how long did you end up doing that?

The whole living abroad.

SPEAKER_02: I was in London.

Well, so I had a my home base, or well, I was technically studying abroad, but as I'm sure you have learned, I was mostly just social butterflying and exploring.

So I had my home base in London.

I went to uh college called Regents College and it was beautiful and I actually loved it.

I made a lot of good friends there.

But then from there, I I it's so easy to travel around Europe.

So I was able to sort of bounce around literally wherever I wanted to go.

I went to Ireland by myself, I went to Scotland by myself.

I traveled with a friend.

I actually flew to Switzerland and then traveled by train with a friend through Switzerland and Italy.

Oh wow.

Oh it was so it was so amazing.

And I, you know, I took French all through high school and in college, and I was able to put a little bit to the test.

And I was like, oh yes.

I, you know, I can kind of hold my own ear.

SPEAKER_00: That is amazing.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Wow.

Now, so the experience, obviously, Europe far different than than Egypt.

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

SPEAKER_00: But would you say that it equally impactful on your life moving forward?

SPEAKER_02: For sure.

I think that in a very different way.

I was, you know, I never, I never really had to experience that cultural.

That's not true.

I mean, it's it's just in a different way.

I think that I went to a few places where I didn't know the language at all, and I was in a place that wasn't touristy, so they didn't know my language.

And that was, you know, that was one of those, like you were talking about like coming back to the core of, you know, human beings and like communication.

And it was those moments were so impactful for me because I was like, wow, here's two people that live in totally different cultures, speak totally different languages, and yet here we are communicating over shrimp scampi and like laughing and having a great time.

Neither of us know that, you know, and it was just sort of this like the world is so much bigger than me.

And like I was just, yeah, it was inspired, but in a very different way.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I love it.

It yeah, kind of comes back to the human connection.

Yeah, you know, of of yeah, and I love that so much.

Wow, wow, wow.

So, so I mean, it sounds like I mean, obviously, life, I mean, when when we're in the midst of it, we, you know, I mean, obviously there's good days and bad days, but I mean, I would, you know, assume it's safe to say at this point in your life, life's really going pretty good.

So that's still college, though.

So what happens after college?

SPEAKER_02: Well, so then it gets that's when it starts to get exciting.

That's when, you know, I don't know if exciting is the right word, but that's when my life sort of took a took a turn.

I and just, you know, I I didn't realize all of this until the last like four years.

So this is all like through a lot of therapy I have gotten here.

But, you know, after I went to college, like I sort of said, my my family, they were people who had careers.

Everybody in my extended, you know, they went to school, none of them went to college, some of them took college courses, but I was really the first one to go to college and graduate with a degree.

And when I graduated, I was like, okay, now what?

Like, what is my what's my career gonna be?

Like I was looking for that box to check off because that's what my mom did, that's what my dad did, my grandparents, and it was like, what is it?

And so I spent a lot of years, not a lot, I spent two or three years really floundering and sort of like, you know, I did like solar sales and I worked at a a psych ward in a hospital, and like I was just all over the place trying to find my thing, and obviously didn't find it, but I was checking off all the boxes.

It was like, okay, I applied to a job, here's my career, and then I ended up meeting a man, and it was like, okay, we bought a house, and I was like, all of like my American dream is coming true.

And at some point in there, I decided I was gonna go back to school, which it's a strange choice for me.

Um, but I ended up going back to school, and it was really weird because I graduated sumo cum wade with a 4.0 GPA, and I was like, wait a second, is this the same person?

Like, what's happening?

But I was really passionate about what I was doing, and I got a degree in early education, and I was like, great, I'm gonna be a kindergarten teacher, and this is my life's work, this is my path.

And so again, I was checking off all the boxes.

I was getting married, I had this job now, I was teaching first grade.

We had a house, we had all of the things lined up, and I was like, this is it.

I have made it.

Here I am, and everybody was proud of me.

I was doing all the right things, and then I am not kidding.

I woke up one morning after being married for about nine months in this new house with a job teaching, and I was like, Holy shit, this is not my life.

Something has happened somewhere, and I am not living a life that's mine at all.

And I sat down and I had a really hard conversation with my husband, and I was like, look, I don't think I'm supposed to be married to you.

I don't think I'm supposed to be in like I was just like so baffled, and I'm getting a little emotional, but I'm I was just so sure in that moment that this was not my life and I don't know how I got there.

And then it was like, you know, and then it was just a whirlwind of things that sort of happened all at once.

And I, you know, I realized that I had made a lot of decisions that weren't really aligned with who I am as a human.

And it sort of landed me in that, in that position.

And, you know, the funniest thing that sort of led me on to this is I was having, I've been doing CrossFit for like 10 years, and I've, you know, the athleticism has sort of carried on.

And I was working out and I had really, really terrible low back pain.

Like I couldn't get off the couch and I like couldn't walk in a stand up line.

And I was like, gosh, what is happening?

And you know, I went to go see all of the right people.

I went to see the physical therapist and a chiropractor and a massage therapist and like all of these people.

Nothing was working.

It would come and go.

And the day that I told my husband that I was leaving, I have not had back pain since.

And I was like, Wow, I was like, whoa, that like this is a serious wake-up call.

SPEAKER_00: Wow.

So Heather, you you've got to take me back a little bit because so I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, I'm thinking of the perspective of your husband.

SPEAKER_02: Yep.

SPEAKER_00: Because you guys were married, correct?

Yes.

Nine months.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And so what the talk to me, the what because I I I mean, I get this this idea.

I mean, I think a lot of us have this idea at some point of like, what am I doing in life?

Like, where am I going?

What am I doing?

But we're talking about a whole nother scenario when we're talking about like I don't even know if that's a person I'm I'm with that I've I've just recently been married to, if he's who I'm even supposed to be married to.

Like what, like, talk to me about what that was like for you to to realize that it was more than just kind of like a self-like freaking out moment.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it was, it was, it was really, really hard.

And I, for a few years, I held a lot of shame around the whole thing.

And I questioned everything about myself and the choices that I had made.

And it just left me feeling like completely out of control and not like functional.

I was just like, what am I like?

Am I making the right decision?

Is this what I'm supposed to be doing?

Like, I already made all of these bad decisions that weren't for me, and like maybe I'm just doing it again.

Like, what like I just didn't I was questioning myself, and then I felt a lot of shame for putting for what I was putting him through and what I had put my family through, and what I had put everybody that had supported us in our wedding through.

And it was just like this overwhelming amount of guilt and shame and just uncertainty, but there was something so pure about my intention.

It was not my intention about knowing, like I just knew at my deepest self that like this wasn't right.

Like I didn't know why.

Well, now, I mean, now I'm very, very aware of it.

And again, I have, you know, one of the first things I did was hire a therapist.

I was like, okay, I need help.

SPEAKER_03: Get me out of this.

SPEAKER_02: I need help.

When I first went with her, I, you know, I I had only had the conversation with him.

Like, hey, I don't know if I don't know what's going on, but I don't think this is right.

And so when I met with my therapist for the first time, I was like, hey, I'm thinking about leaving my husband.

Like, here's this idea I have.

And she was like, whoa, okay.

Like, let's that's a big deal.

Let's talk about it.

And so that would like, you know, talking it out in therapy and working through my core beliefs and wants and desires and loves was really what ended ended us getting into a place where it was like, okay, it's time for us to get a divorce.

Yeah, this is what we both want.

And and at the time, like he was totally, totally, totally heartbroken.

And now, you know, we're five years later, and he's like, Yeah, I get it now.

Yeah, like that made sense.

And we're friends now.

We're like, we're very friendly, and it's great.

SPEAKER_00: You know, Heather, what what I'm what I'm sitting here thinking when you're when you're talking about this, and I'm thinking of thinking to myself, I almost look at this more like not that you woke up in this like freaking out, what am I doing?

But almost uh finally snapped out of a freaking out moment that lasted for a while.

Yeah.

Because all of a sudden, you know, you were living this life that was different than who you always had been.

Yeah.

You know, even as far as, you know, going back to school and and doing amazing in school and and and now living this, you know, quote unquote like perfect life.

In fact, that was really kind of the you know, freak out zone.

And then almost a you woke up and you snapped back to reality.

SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting, you know, I've never looked at it that way, but that's that's an interesting yeah.

I mean, I that's certainly how you know I was living a life that I it was I was supposed to be living, right?

It's that comes comes to that whole supposed to.

All of the things I was supposed to be doing were there.

Yes, and I had them all.

And then it was like, well, why am I not happy?

I have all of these things.

Why am I not fulfilled?

I have all these things that I'm supposed to have, and that my parents are like exactly and it's like, oh gosh, oh yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00: So so how do you rebound from that?

SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, well, that is, you know, that the last four years have really been five years, have really, I feel like have star is where my life has started, which obviously isn't true because I've had a lot of experiences before the last five years that have gotten me here.

But the last five years have been really the first time where I was like, okay, I am in control of my life.

I am making choices that I want to make, I am doing what I want to do.

And this is my life.

And anything that doesn't align with this, including people and family and you know, jobs and choices, like I'm all set.

And leading with myself first has has helped me rebound it.

And, you know, so immediately after my divorce, I got an apartment by myself, which was the first time I had really ever lived by myself.

And I was like, this is great.

And that, you know, that was sort of the beginning of my design interest.

I was like, oh wow, I have this whole apartment and nobody to tell me what to do or where to put anything or what I have to put up.

I was like, I'm gonna make this so cute and I am so excited about it.

And then I ended up meeting a new man who has shined a light on parts of me that good and bad that I didn't even know existed.

And it has been overwhelmingly joyful, but also like such a huge growth.

Like, I can't even put into words the amount of growth I've had in the last five years, both in myself and in our relationship.

And, you know, somebody told me once after I got divorced, like the thing you have to realize about relationships is they're they're just a mirror of yourself.

So if you can find somebody who mirrors back to you in a loving way where you can grow, that's the key.

And it was always like, What do you mean?

Like, I don't get that.

I don't understand.

What are you talking about?

And now I'm in this super loving and conscious relationship where I'm like, oh, like just last just was this last night or something?

You know, we were having a conversation.

He just looks at me and he's like, Do you hear this part of you right now?

And I'm like, what do you mean?

And he was like, I just I see this part of you and I love this part of you, but I just do hear this part of you.

And I was like, Oh.

And I just had this moment of like, wow, yeah, okay, let's reel this reel this back in.

So, you know, all of those things sort of layered on top of each other, this this amazing relationship, this this leading with a self, and sort of this the support system that I've built around me has has helped me rebound into a life that I have created.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.

I love it.

Curious during these past four or five years, this this kind of rebound has has travel played any impact in the in that world.

SPEAKER_02: Oh yes.

Oh, yes.

So my ex-husband was not, I don't want to say he wasn't a fan of me traveling.

He just didn't understand why I didn't want to travel with him.

He was like, What do you mean?

Like, why don't you want me to come with you?

And I was like, no, no, it's not about that.

Like, I just wanna I wanna go see this place and I want to go see this place.

So anyway, I didn't travel much when I was with him, other than the occasional like going to the Caribbean and to like an all-inclusive resort and like not really experiencing much of the land.

And so the first thing I did when when I when we separated was I booked a trip to Bali for six weeks.

And I was like, you know what?

I'm out.

Like I know what I know what I need to be doing, and I am out of here.

And so I went to Bali, and you know, the teacher part of me was like, hey, I'm a teacher.

So I actually volunteered over there for about four weeks, and I taught English in an after-school program.

And I lived in this tiny little village in the north of Bali where there was it was, you know, all open air.

We had mosquito nets.

There was no, you know, material amenities that I have here.

And I just uh I mean, I should say we were right on the beach, like literally walking distance to like coral reef snorkeling, which totally took advantage of it.

But it was, you know, it was this little village where they burned trash on the side of the road, and like I had my shower literally consisted of a of a hose that stuck through a hole at the top of the wall.

There's like just cold, like spout hose water for a shower.

And I was like, this is everything that I wanted and that I hoped for and that I needed for my soul.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

And my my partner now, my boyfriend now, he is all for it.

He's like, in fact, I will help you take a trip once a year by yourself wherever you want to go, and we'll take trips together.

And like, we're both really into traveling and seeing new things and new places.

And so that has fostered my my desires too.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.

I absolutely loved it.

So now moving back kind of kind of full circle in our conversation.

Did you ever think that you would get into design work?

I mean, you know, you know, coming back, no?

Love it.

Never, never.

SPEAKER_02: You know, I was like I said, my family, my family all have, you know, doing quotation marks, but they all have careers, right?

They either started a business where they, you know, that's been their their business for the last 50 years, or like my mom is a software engineer, which she's been doing for 30 years.

And so it was like, I never really like the idea of a creative job was so far from my site that it it just never, it never even occurred to me.

It was so far out there, and still, you know, I I still sort of feel not from my mom and dad, but from my like extended family, though, like I kind of get the like, okay, what are you doing now?

Like, okay, what's next?

And it's like, no, no, no.

Like, I own a business.

Like, I it's a creative business, yeah.

But I own a business and I am doing a thing.

And but they're not like, okay, but exactly, but when are you like, when are you gonna get an eight to five job around that?

And it's like, no, no, no.

New age, we're moving on here.

Yes, yes, you know, that was exactly that was a part of me, you know, six years ago that would have been like, oh shhh, Nikes, like you're right.

Like, why don't I have an eight to five?

What am I doing?

Why don't I have an eight to five job?

What's happening?

Whereas now I'm just like, ah, you're funny.

This is my life.

You can be in it or not.

Like, this is what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

What do you feel like contributed to that total change of mindset?

SPEAKER_02: A lot of therapy.

A lot of therapy.

No, you know, I do, I mean, I do a lot of work outside of therapy too, with like whether it's reading and journaling.

And I just started a meditation practice like two years ago, and you know, sort of coming back, always coming back to sell.

You know, they always say in meditation, like if your mind wanders, which of course mine does, mine does goes every which direction, they're always like, okay, bring it back to breath.

Um, and I can, you know, at first it was always when I was meditating, I was like, oh, what the heck?

I can't do it.

SPEAKER_03: Like, I just all over the place and I'd get frustrated.

SPEAKER_02: And it's just been the last few years that I've been like, wait, but that's that's life too.

Like that, you always, for me at least, it's like, as long as I'm always coming back to center, if I get a little off track, like if I'm like, oh, what's that over there?

Or oh shit, this just happened, or oh my god, this awful thing is happening, as long as I can sort of like not block that all out, but just push that out a little bit and come back to center and myself and what I actually think about the situation and where I actually stand on something, then I can continue moving forward.

You know, it's not like I am ever, it's not that I don't ever slip into old ways, but I'm always like, okay, hold on a second.

Space, where am I?

What am I doing?

And then I'm able to sort of realign myself.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.

I love it.

I love it.

This conversation between this, it's it's like the self-discovery of Heather.

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.

I I have been on this journey for a while, so I'm excited for you to be with me.

SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.

So now talk to me about I mean, the entrepreneurial journey in the design business, because it isn't the normal eight to five.

It's not the security of a job that we know that it's there.

You're punching a time clock.

It is entrepreneurship.

Talk to me about how that journey has been, what you've learned, what that has taught you.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Well, you know, first of all, thank goodness it's not an eight to five job.

Because that for me now I know that that would be stifling for me.

But, you know, I so I was a, like I said, I was a CrossFit coach for a really long time.

I got a big fancy job in Boston.

I was coaching some of the best CrossFit athletes in the world and the first November of COVID.

So that I think that's 2021.

I don't know.

My dates are all the last two years have just been sort of a blur.

I think it was 2021 in November.

I was laid off and I was living in Boston, and I was like, okay, now what do I do?

Like I had I had followed this path for so long, and that was sort of my end goal.

Like that job was sort of my end goal.

It was like, okay, here's this is it.

And then I was like, huh, okay, now I gotta figure something else out to do.

And you know, design for me had always just been something that I did, like it no matter where I lived or who I was living with, like my spaces were always beautiful.

And it was always kind of the space that people walked into and they're like, oh my gosh, Heather, this is amazing.

Like, what is happening here?

Like, I don't know.

I just threw it all together.

Like, I liked that chair and I liked my chat, like it just all worked.

And when I was laid off, you know, I had some money saved up, and I was like, it was in the middle of COVID, and they were giving everybody a bunch of money, and I was like, this is great.

I'll go on employment, I'll get a bunch of money, I'll hang out for a few months, and I'll figure my life out.

And I signed up for a class through the New York Institute of Art and Design on Interior Design, and I started like going through class and I was like, I'm Should teach this class.

Like, I was like, wait a second, I know more.

Wait, what?

Like, I was just going through it and being like, I actually know more than this class is teaching me right now.

And I'm not sure this is very helpful.

So then I was like, okay, well, what else could I do?

And I, my boyfriend Ashley was like, Well, why don't you reach out to other interior designers and like just see if you can intern for them or volunteer your time just to learn if it's something that you even like doing in the form of a you know business and working?

And I was like, Great idea.

SPEAKER_03: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: So I reached out to a local designer that's in we moved back to Western Mass, reached out to a local designer in the area, and I said, Hey, like, I want to volunteer my time.

You don't have to pay me.

I'm just trying to figure out like if this is something I really like and I'm, you know, I'd love to learn from you and help you, and blah, blah, blah.

And anyway, we connected and we just immediately loved each other.

And we're like, okay, let's do this.

And so that quickly turned into like, okay, you're gonna work part-time for me.

Okay, you're gonna work as an assistant.

Okay, now you're an associate designer.

And this is all over the course of like seven months or something.

And then as some this is last summer, this is a year ago now.

She was like, actually, I'm firing you and you need to do this.

And I was like, what do you mean?

Like, I have everything in here.

SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02: You know, I was devastated in a in a very new way because I was like, wow, this is what?

Like, I love, I love what I'm doing and I know that I'm supposed to be here.

And what do you mean?

And she was like, Look, Heather, like you have an incredible eye, you have the design brain, you just need to go start your own business.

And I was like, Okay, okay, here we go.

I'm gonna do it.

And she has helped me, you know, she mentors me a little bit, and now we have lunch, and she has been super helpful in my life, and I'm so, so, so grateful to her now.

Now at the time, I was like, what the hell?

And so that was that was really what sparked me starting a business.

And then, yeah, the road of entrepreneurship is an in it's an interesting one, you know, because as a single business owner, you know, you have to be the marketer, you have to be the business owner, you have to run all the books, you have to do all the sales, you have to also do the job of design.

And it's like I'm just sort of figuring out how to organize all of that so that I can do all of it, you know, because I was I was finding that I can do the design work, but then who the heck knows what's happening with my books behind the scenes?

Like, I have no idea who paid me or where it came from or if I paid someone.

And then it was like, oh yeah, but you also should do some marketing.

And it was like, what?

There's like all these things that it's like, oh my gosh, you have I have to do all of this.

And so, and that's where the business coach came in.

I was like, My therapist was like, Hey, like, I am so happy to help you in your life, but like I am not your business coach, and we're here for deeper shit.

So go hire one.

And I was like, Okay, thank you.

And thank goodness, because she has she I remember one of the first times I sat down with her and I was like, okay, so here's my fees, here's everything I charge.

And she just looked at me and she was like, no, nope.

And I was like, What do you mean?

And so she has set me up, she is setting me straight, and it's super been super helpful.

And so, yeah, like I said, I'm just sort of starting to figure out that I have to be the designer and the accountant and the marketer and the salesperson and the sort of face of this and how to organize all of those things and how to lay them out in a way that's doable, you know, with the with the life that I want to live.

Like, as you know, I'm a traveler.

So, you know, I I have set myself up in such a way that, you know, I only have to work four hours a day.

And the rest of it, it's like I, you know, I can travel, I can go outside and go on a walk, I can work out, I can be with my friends, I can, you know, do whatever it is that lights me up, but I could also have, you know, a 10 or 12 hour day if I need to to get stuff done.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.

So it's been a whirlwind.

And yeah, no, I mean, I love it, absolutely love it.

So now, you know, I I'm gonna act like I'm a designer, but it's just because I watch the design shows on TV.

Nothing like that in my life.

But what what my question is, is for somebody who's like, oh, I I love, I love this girl, Heather.

I wonder like what is her design?

Because I know certain designers are contemporary or they're, I don't know, country or whatever.

How would you consider like your eye for design?

SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I'm so happy you asked that because I do not believe that that's a thing.

I am no eye.

So I take I take a really different approach to design.

So like I really believe that a person's home should be a reflection of their best self and their biggest dreams, and that doesn't always align with mine.

And you know, I have done I have done designs where I'm like, I actually don't like that.

Like I am, I I that is not my kitchen.

I never want it in my house, and I am so happy you love it.

But like, so for me, like I really and I think I said this earlier, but I really bring out, I ask a ton of questions.

I almost have a whole like interview with my clients before I even start any design work.

And the point of it is to find out like what their life is about.

Like, do they love to travel?

Do they have kids?

Do they love dogs?

Do they love outside?

Like, do they love to read?

Like, what is it about them that I can bring into this space and really make it feel like when they get home, they're just like, oh my gosh, this is the freaking best house in the world, and I love all of it.

And then I sort of on top of that, I layer what the house is telling me.

I always tell my clients the house speaks to me, which is like a cr weird, crazy thing.

But like what I put in, you know, a contemporary 2,900 square foot house in, you know, a suburb is very, very different than what I'm gonna put in an 1,100 little ranch in the middle of the woods.

Like those two houses for me have very different wishes for themselves, which sounds again crazy, but it's like here's what, here's what this person, well, here's what I can pull from these people living in this space.

Here's what the house is is telling me.

And then my job or what how I how I envision my job to be at least is using my design brain to pull that all together so that it's a cohesive and beautiful and functional design.

Like, I really want to put people's spaces to work for them versus the other way around.

So I am not someone like if you like, do not call me if you're looking for a country modern farmhouse.

Like, I am not your girl.

Yes.

But as far as like my personal style, I am very I mean, I'm sure as you can tell, I am very like bohemian, earthy, super neutral.

Like I like light and airy and breezy, and my house is like very open and very bright, and I have a ton of plants everywhere, and yeah, yeah, just me.

SPEAKER_00: I love it.

SPEAKER_02: But I very rarely get to bring that into my clients' homes unless it's an Airbnb.

Then people are like, I don't actually care.

And I'm like, okay, we're going crazy.

SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, I love it.

Do you find that your your mind when you when you're designing a space and you're working with somebody, do you find that your mind goes back to elements that you've experienced while traveling?

SPEAKER_02: And that is where, yes, and that is that is a big part of where the Airbnb, well, you know, it's short-term rentals everywhere.

It's not just Airbnbs, but short-term vacation rentals has sort of become a huge passion of mine because I have stayed in probably over 50 Airbnbs or some sort of short-term rental at this point.

And I always walk now, especially now, I always walk into a space and like, this place could use this and this place could use this, and if they just did this, it would be so much better.

And if this happened, it would be so much better.

And I was like, gosh, like I can bring all of this to people, whether they're in Bali or, you know, Maine or probably Egypt, I could bring something off in there.

Like I I think that traveling has given me a really interesting perspective to sort of, you know, that aspect we were talking about about uh what a home says to me and what it's calling for and what is required of a home for someone who is, you know, just visiting.

Because it's a very different, it's a very different thing than building a home for someone who's, you know, lives in it full time.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: I love it.

I also think that, you know, for the interior design clients that I do have that are living in their in their homes, like I am always, I always see stuff when I'm traveling and we're like, oh my gosh, this light would work perfect in this person's house.

Like I need to text them.

I just was out, I was just in Paris like a month ago, and I'm working on a client's a house, and we've been searching and searching for a light.

And that's just what reminded me of it.

I was in this tiny little market in like the middle of nowhere in for in Paris, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is the light.

This is it.

I need this light.

SPEAKER_01: I was like, will you send this to Massachusetts?

And they were like, uh, we can try to figure it out.

I was like, yes, all of it, yes.

SPEAKER_00: Yes.

SPEAKER_02: So I'm always I always am finding inspiration everywhere.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Oh my gosh, I love it.

And you know what, you know what that tells me when when you feel like you finally found the fit.

SPEAKER_02: Yes.

SPEAKER_00: You know, when when you when you kind of talked about your relationship and you find that fit, the mirror and and you find that now with this career where you've you've combined a passion of traveling with now a career and it all just blends together where it's completely seamless.

It's not like you're trying to fit it together.

No, it it fits together.

You know?

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Now, for somebody interested, do you work with people all over with technology, with virtual, you know, being able to use cameras and video, or is it only people in your area that you work with?

SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I'm all over the place.

So especially with Airbnb stuff, like I am, I will come out to you wherever you are and basically set up camp for however long the project's gonna take and finish the project, get it done.

And that's some people they need me to come out and they're just like, hey, like I just need to make sure the furniture layout is right and I need a couple of new decor things and I need to, you know, hide the wires behind the T, whatever it is.

So some projects are like a week long, and then I like I just had one where they were like, I actually hate all of this and I need to rip out the walls and I need you to redo it.

And I'm like, okay, great.

And you know, so that one's six more like nine months.

And so for those ones, there's just a lot of depending on how far away it is, it's like I'll travel back and forth, and obviously I'm very willing to travel and be out in a world.

So part of the job.

But the other thing is I do have I have a couple of sort of quick and easy virtual packages that I do.

I don't love working virtually, which is why I sort of set up these little packages where it's just like a one-off.

It's like, hey, like give me a thousand dollars and I'll redesign your whole room for you.

And I'm just gonna give you everything to put it in place because it's just so it's so it's it's less of like working with technology and like let's zoom.

Oh, I didn't reach you and we're in different time zones.

It's like it can be all over the place, and I'm just not really for that.

Like, I want to be with you and I want to connect with you.

Yes, but like you can buy this thousand dollar little thing and take all of this with you and make it beautiful on your own.

SPEAKER_01: Here you go.

SPEAKER_00: Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

No, I like it.

Like, well, well, that's what because I was wondering, I mean, not to be a total just smart ass and you'd be like, this guy's a jerk.

Because I started to ask, when when doing virtual, do we sit the phone just down in the middle of the living room and let the house talk to you?

SPEAKER_01: I love that question.

Yeah, you just leave me there for like 30 minutes and I'll just take it all in.

SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.

A big part of like what the house, like, I'll look up the house on Google Maps, I'll find out where North is, I'll find out the area that it's in.

You know, are there houses around?

Are there trees around?

Are there fields around?

Like, where are you in the world?

What is around you?

And then it's it's really important for me, like on our first visit with a virtual client to see like every inch of the house.

So I literally will like FaceTime the client and go on a virtual tour and they'll be like, okay, here's the corner where the water heater is, like, here's the couch, and go around the whole space.

And from that, I can get a pretty good idea of what what's happening in the space.

And then, yeah, and then the other thing that's tricky is like it's then on the clients too to give me measurements, which is experience is a little sketchy always.

SPEAKER_01: Because they're like, yeah, it's like five and a half feet-ish, and you're like, no, no, no.

Like, what is actually seven feet, and you're like, oh gosh, okay.

SPEAKER_02: So it just gets it's great for stuff like, hey, I just need a you know, a new couch and a chair.

It's not so great for like I want to renovate my bathroom.

It's like, oh gosh.

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: Of course.

Absolutely.

So so I'm wondering for the person listening or for like my mom who's listening, who's like, oh my gosh, I want how can my mom or anybody else get in touch with you or learn more?

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the best the best thing is my website.

It's just heatherhamillesign.com and just my contact page and reach out to me through there.

I mean, my phone number isn't there, but I'm I'm one of those people that doesn't actually answer my phone if it's a weird number, which probably isn't the best practice if I owned a business.

But, you know, it aligns with me.

So email is definitely best, and yeah, just reach out to me on my contact page.

I am actively, again, probably not a best practice for a business, but I'm actively trying to be on social media less because it just does not align with me or ignite anything joyful in me most of the time.

So my my social media page is out there, but it's sort of sad.

Definitely on my website.

And then yeah, I'd love to connect.

I usually start with people with just a discovery call, which is just like a 15 to 20 minute phone call that's totally free.

And from that, like sort of how we did before the podcast, like you can get a pretty good idea about if you would work well together in that 15 or 20 minutes, and if I can help someone.

And so that's usually the best place to start.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Well, fantastic, fantastic.

Well, well, Heather, you're amazing.

I love what you're doing.

I love this evolution of Heather Hamill, the self-discovery that we've we've discovered.

You're just, you're, you're a breath of fresh air.

You're just super awesome, super cool.

And I just uh super, super grateful to have you on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.

And I, you know, I really have to say I appreciate your questions so much.

They were so inspiring and really, really made me dig deep into some of some of the self-discovery that I have gone through.

So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's what you get when you get interviewed by blind people.

We ask better questions.

SPEAKER_02: When you're all about that, that I mean that human connection, I really feel that from you.

SPEAKER_00: Exactly.

Oh, well, thank you so much, Heather.

And uh yeah, well, well, thank you.

And for you listening today, I want to thank you for tuning in to the episode today, my interview with Heather Hamill, another just absolutely incredible guest.

And, you know, if anything from today's interview inspires you, I hope it's this fact of evolving as yourself.

I don't care if you're 18 years old or if you're 65 years old.

You're still living, you can still evolve, you can still become a bigger, better version of yourself.

We never have to stop.

So forget about what the timeline of life says we're supposed to be doing or what you're supposed to be settled into.

And instead, just follow the life that feels right, whatever direction that is, take it, live it, and who knows where tomorrow we'll leave.

Hey, real quick before you go, I have one last thought of this.

I of course hope that you've enjoyed today's episode, but more importantly, I want to remind you that I've never wanted to episode.

I have to say what my death has to stay.

Wow.

I wish I could do it.

I wish I could overcome my own challenges.

It's just a great thing to say you're doing.

So I just have to make the outside.