Can a single moment truly redefine your entire life? Imagine everything changing in the blink of an eye—because for Jon Antonucci, it did. This episode uncovers a gripping journey of downfall, resilience, and profound transformation.
What You’ll Gain:
Prepare to explore the power of redemption and the incredible strength of the human spirit to overcome adversity. You’ll be inspired by Jon’s story of transformation from incarceration to a life of purpose and impact.
Episode Synopsis:
In today’s episode, you’re going to dive into the life of Jon Antonucci, who faced the darkest moment of his life when a split-second decision led to a 14-year prison sentence. But instead of surrendering to despair, Jon chose to see his incarceration as a pivotal moment to reshape his destiny.
Through heartfelt reflections and a candid recount of his experiences, this episode is a testament to the transformative power of hope and the relentless pursuit of redemption.
Life-changing Takeaways:
- Every Setback is a Setup for a Comeback: Discover how Jon turned a life sentence into a life lesson.
- The Power of Choice: Understanding that our responses to life’s challenges define our path.
- Transformation Through Adversity: Gain insights into how facing our darkest moments can lead to profound personal growth and transformation.
- The Role of Faith in Rehabilitation: Exploring how spirituality can guide one through the recovery and healing process.
- Mentorship Behind Bars: Jon discusses how mentoring other inmates provided purpose and helped solidify his own journey towards redemption.
Press PLAY on this gripping episode to witness a story of profound transformation, even while face-to-face with adversity. This story is truly empowering!
Mentioned Links & Resources:
- Send Prayer Requests to 877-749-8178 or to Podcast@LoweDownMedia.com
- MyPillow: Use Promo Code KEVIN for the $25 Extravaganza! (ALL of the following each only $25: 2-pack multi use MyPillow’s, MyPillow sandals, 6-pack towels sets, 4-pack dish towels, Giza Premium MyPillows with all new Giza fabric)
- Download your free RISE & THRIVE: Personal Development Tracker
- Visit Jon’s Company Website: www.ServantMindedLeadership.com
- Checkout Jon’s Personal Website: www.JonAntonucci.com
- Email: This is Jon’s email if wishing to get in contact: me@jonantonucci.com
- Visit Jon’s YOUTUBE Channel
- Connect with Jon on: LinkedIn
- Follow Jon on Facebook: @ServantMindedLeadership
- Follow Jon on Instagram: @ServantMindedLeadership
Today’s Awesome Guest
Jon Antonucci grew up with entrepreneurial zeal in Fort Collins, Colorado, and moved to Arizona during his teenage years. His life took a dramatic turn when a decision led him to a 14-year prison sentence. During his incarceration, Jon used his time to engage in self-improvement and education, ultimately using his experiences to aid in his remarkable comeback. His story is a powerful testament to the human spirit’s capacity to overcome adversity and embrace change for a better future.
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Transcript
It's no doubt that a single moment in time can completely change the rest of your life.
Today, it's a story of a moment, a decision, and it completely changed the life for today's guest.
I want you to imagine, imagine back when you were a teenager with nothing but
the hopes for the future, enjoying life, excited about tomorrow.
And then, of course, that moment happens, a decision, a single moment in time,
and everything changes.
Our guest today, John Antonucci, he knows this story all too well.
That moment was devastating.
That moment would change the lives of so very many, including his own.
Faced with a 14-year prison sentence, John Antonucci could have viewed his life as done.
But instead, as the story goes, he would use this as a transformation because,
well, he realized every setback is a setup for an amazing comeback.
Today is one heck of a comeback story.
Now, here's how today's episode, though, is going to mean something more to you.
Is that while you listen, I want you to keep in mind that it's not what happens
in this life that matters.
No, it's how we react to it that defines us.
Keep that in mind as you listen to his story and understand how that moment,
that doesn't make him who he is.
Instead, it's all the things that he's done since then. My friend,
I welcome you to episode 284.
What's up, my friend, and welcome to Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.
I am your host, Kevin Lowe. 20 years ago, I awoke from a life-saving surgery
only to find that I was left completely blind.
And since that day, I've learned a lot about life, a lot about living, and a lot about myself.
And here on this podcast, I want to share those insights with you.
Because friend, if you are still searching for your purpose,
still trying to understand why, or still left searching for that next right
path to take, we'll consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from
where you are to where you want to be.
Do you and your family watch much TV? If so, then you have probably seen the
commercials for MyPillow.
Well, did you know that here on the podcast, we are sponsored by MyPillow?
And what does that mean for you?
Well, that means you get to use the promo code Kevin And you can get the best
available price on any of their more than 250 products.
We're talking up to 80% off.
And right now they have their $25 extravaganza.
You can get some of their best products for literally only 25 bucks.
You can't beat it. Be sure to check out today's show notes where I will leave
a list of the products that you can get for just 25 bucks. and we'll leave a
link that makes it easy for you.
Remember, just use promo code Kevin when shopping at MyPillow.
Last week on the podcast, I mentioned
that I wanted to start doing prayer requests for you, my listeners,
and today we are going right along with that, and I have a prayer request from
Debbie, and she asked prayer for her son, Shannon.
Shannon recently underwent massive heart surgery, and she just asked if we could
be praying for Shannon for complete and total healing,
that he will get strong and well and can get back to living the life that he was.
His name is Shannon, and it would be amazing if you could say a prayer for him today.
And please remember, if you would like to have your prayer request featured
here on the podcast, I've made it super simple.
All you have to do is send your prayer request via text to 877-749-8178.
Again, that phone number is 877-749-8178.
And remember, don't call that phone number. Just send a text message.
That is what it is set up for. So send a text message to that phone number with your prayer request.
And I would love to feature it here on the podcast. With that,
my friend, it's back to the episode.
Here is my interview with John Antonucci.
I grew up in the foothills of Colorado in a town called Fort Collins.
And was the probably the most entrepreneurial young man that you have ever encountered.
I don't know if you've even heard more, but at seven years old,
I started my own lawn business.
By the time I was 12, I was running that and delivering newspapers and selling
newspaper subscriptions and going up to the local convenience store.
I think they call it convenience plus back then. Anyways, and like making the
coffee and stocking the shelves and helping a little local produce stand selling
old town and really just work and work and work.
And because I was homeschooled my entire life, that gave me the opportunity
to get the schoolwork out of the way and get back to work.
So very ambitious young man, somebody that my parents were often known as John's
parents in the neighborhood.
And yeah, just very, very much a go-getter. And then at about 12,
I got involved with martial arts.
And that was something that I just really took to really, really quickly.
And so from that point on, that was kind of the passion.
I still worked and did all the other jobs, but my dream was to become an instructor.
And I was able to officially realize that dream when I was 17 years old.
We'd moved to Arizona by that time.
It was an unfortunate situation, but one of the instructors that had been a
longtime instructor with the company that I was a part of, passed away.
And they were in a bind to try to fill all of the classes.
And at that point, a 17-year-old ambitious young man was all that was really required.
I had the rank, I had the ambition, and they had the needs. So we complimented each other in that.
And by the time I was 19, I was instructing over 500 students across the Phoenix
Metro Valley and really, Really, really just continuing on.
So that's kind of an overview of what I was doing.
Yeah, amazing. Now, what do you think it was about martial arts in particular
that really attracted you to it?
You know, I think it's hard to say. It's hard to say. Being homeschooled,
as much as that gave me an incredible amount of opportunity.
This was back in the days before homeschooling was cool, certainly pre-COVID.
Yeah. And so I think there was a lot of kids that are near me that didn't know how to take that.
So probably a little bit to try to overcome some bullying and things.
But but I think honestly, if I look back on it now, I kind of became a bully there for a while.
And so I think a lot of it was just a desire to be powerful,
a desire to command control and respect.
What do you mean when you say that you kind of became a bully?
Why? Why would you say that? Well, you know, hindsight being 2020,
which it always is there, there's just, you can look back on it and say,
you know, there wasn't a real heart for self-defense.
There was more a heart for dominance.
And especially when I look back on the way that I treated my siblings,
I got, I have a lot of remorse over some of the ways that I treated my siblings. I'm the oldest of five.
And so I just look back and I'm so thankful for the wonderful relationship that
I have now with each of them. but boy, I sure could have treated them better
growing up. Yeah, yeah, understandable.
Now, real quick, kind of while we're still in this same kind of a period of
your life, the move that you guys did, how old were you when you guys moved
and how was the move on you and life?
So I was 15 when we moved.
And I think for me, it was a huge adjustment. So we moved out here.
My father has been in the ministry since I was born.
And he moved here to help with a church that was, or I shouldn't say here.
I'm not in Arizona anymore. more. But he moved to Arizona to help with the church there.
And so I think from one perspective, it was something new. It was something exciting.
Being the oldest, I was kind of the fearless one of the group,
but it definitely changed a lot as well.
All of the little business ventures I had going obviously kind of evaporated.
And I don't know how much you know about Arizona, but while Colorado was lush
with trees and grass and things to mow and rake and shovel, Arizona, not so much.
So about the most you're going to get with landscaping as a 15-year-old kid
in Arizona is pulling weeds and raking rocks.
And so that kind of put the kibosh on that.
But I was able to get a job. I started working for Safeway and did pretty well there once I turned 16.
Martial arts also took a big change because in Colorado, going back to kind of that bully idea.
I was just, I was undisputedly kind of the top of the class,
even before I was officially ranked top or the oldest, it was just, it took to it naturally.
And so while that was great, it didn't necessarily foster a spirit of growth.
Well, I came to Phoenix and Phoenix being a much larger area where the company
that I was a part of was actually founded.
There were people that were just a lot better.
And so I went from kind of being the top dog to being a nobody in a matter of moments.
And I think that was really, really beneficial for part of my growth journey.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Now, when you were talking about kind of at the height of this martial arts,
when you were, I think you said 19 and you were teaching martial arts,
just from my own knowledge of your story,
something else kind of happened at 19 that I feel like is a pivotal moment in your story.
Would you unpack that for us? Yeah, absolutely.
The age of 19 is huge because it was both the apex of who I was as well as the
rock bottom that resulted in who I am.
The successes that I had found growing up, and it really was, it was the Midas touch.
Everything I did turned to gold and it really was enough to really lend to an
already overinflated ego. go.
And so when I was probably 18, I was paired up with some people that I was working
with and all societally good people.
We were all kind of doing the right thing, except there was one of us who had
found some ways to kind of cook
the books a little bit when it came to our instructing of martial arts.
And so that kind of led me down a rabbit hole.
I'm not a creative person by any any stretch of the imagination,
but I am certainly an innovative person.
And if you show me that something is possible, I'm going to show you how we
can make that possibility better.
And, uh, that's, you know, that's kind of what I did.
He, he showed me that there was a possibility of, of skimming off the top of the books.
And I said, well, if you can do it that way, then you can also do it this other,
and this other, and this other, and this other, and this other way.
Eventually, of course, when you get greedy and you do things that are the lack
integrity, I think the Bible says that things that are done in secret are shouted from the housetops.
And so that's, that kind of what happened. I was called on the carpet for it.
I made up a lie about what my intentions were, that I was trying to find all
of the problems with the system.
And they bought that just for about as much truth as it contained.
And I was, of course, fired.
And so after being fired, of course, the reason that it was caught,
all the books were being audited.
And there was kind of a series of events that happened. But to kind of just distill it all down.
I was fired. My best friend who originally kind of showed me that this was possible
was under investigation.
And we were both what we lacked in an integrity we made up for in creativity, I guess.
And so one day as we were talking, we were talking about me starting up my own venture.
And he was kind of scared a little
bit because remember, I was 17 when I originally signed my contract.
So my non-compete clause, I didn't feel was enforceable, but he was significantly older than me.
And so his contract had been signed at an elder age.
And so he was trying to figure out, you know, what are we going to do about
that? Because, you know, eventually I know I'm getting fired too, basically.
And so he made this comment. It was done in passing. I didn't really take it
seriously, but he was like, you know, we should just burn the whole place down.
And I was like, ah, you're stupid. Shut up. And within moments of that,
I mean, it wasn't like it was even talked about really.
It was just kind of in passing that the conversation ended and I didn't give it much thought.
And it wasn't until probably a month or two later that it came up again with
two mutual colleagues who said that they had overheard the same friend talking
about the same idea, but this time in front of students.
And they were pretty concerned about, you know, not only where this idea was
going, but also the fact that it had been mentioned in front of other people.
And that was kind of when it got serious because I was like still very insecure
with myself, still lacking any integrity and courage in myself.
And with some weird, weirdly placed
sense of importance, I felt the best thing to do was to take charge.
And all right, I'm going to talk to Josh about this. And we went toward that direction.
But instead of, you know, hey,
we should never have talked about this or this. This is a terrible idea.
I more went at it from the perspective of you can't say things like that in front of students.
Yes. And that's that kind of snowballed the the conversation into,
you know, what were you even talking about?
And eventually there was a plan that was put into place.
And to make a very long story very short, when I was 19, me and three of my
friends thought that it would be a bright idea to go light that building on
fire, the office building where we worked.
And so on, I believe it was June 13th of 2009,
we all donned black attire and scaled an awning that allowed us to break a window
in the second story offices of that office building.
And we had a whole plan. The whole plan collapsed immediately after going in.
I don't think any of us wanted to be there.
I think we were all freaked out. I think if any one of us had said,
I'm not doing this, the rest would have said, and we all would have left. But none of us did.
I was too much of a coward to make such a statement.
And so we broke the window. We entered into the office that we were supposed to disperse from.
None of us ever left that that office. Most of us just left our gasoline that
we had brought with us in that office.
I was the first one out the window with one of the others close behind.
And I was literally just running away as fast as I could when I saw the fireball
erupt into the sky behind me.
And the alarm went off. And my best friend, an older brother,
he had apparently lit the match while he was still standing in that room.
And I didn't see him again until after I pulled my truck around trying to look for him.
And he was at that point kind of rolling around up on the awning with flames
coming off of his clothing.
I was unable to stop my car in time. I tried to make a U-turn,
but in the time that I made the U-turn, the fire truck passed me.
And he had said during the quote unquote planning phase, you can call what we
did planning, that if anything went wrong, all of us were supposed to get out
of there and preserve our lives
as we were all much younger than him and that he would take care of it.
So I made yet another cowardly move and I ran away.
I drove away, really, and turned
my phone off so I couldn't be tracked and drove away as fast as I could.
I have no idea where I went. It's all just kind of a blur.
But eventually, we all met up at my house and the other three of us.
We concocted a lie that It's what we felt would be an alibi for all of us.
And we left it at that. And to continue to try to fast forward through the story,
the police called me the next day as his wife had indicated I was the last one
to be seen with him, assuming that I would be able to lie my way out of that
quandary, just like I had everything else in my life.
I went to the police station and answered the questions in my most convincing tone.
And they believed me for the exact amount of truth that was in my statements as well.
And I found myself with the handcuffs being clasped around my wrists as they
clipped shut and being led away, being charged with arson of an occupied structure
and what was classified in Arizona as first degree murder.
Not because they thought we intentionally killed him, but because when you commit
a felony and someone dies, it's considered a capital murder.
So it's classified the same as first degree.
Wow. So your friend did die?
Yes. The next day, I assumed he was in the hospital. I had no idea where he
was, but to me, I'd watched apparently one too many episodes of CSI.
And I thought, well, there's this giant database, so I'll find him.
And so I called the police to file a missing persons report saying that we were
supposed to leave and that he had taken off to run an errand and never returned.
In case anyone's wondering, no such giant database exists, but they will charge
you for filing a fraudulent report when they find out that the person was not
missing and you were with him later.
So that's a fun fact. But yeah, I tried filing a report.
They were unable to find him. I didn't know what was going on.
And it wasn't until I received a call from a mutual colleague later that day
where they said that they thought they had found Josh's body at the scene that
I learned that he had passed. Wow.
Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. My
how a series of bad
decisions can just completely snowball and
completely change the course of your
life yeah yeah no one saw it
coming uh not especially not me but but yeah no it went from uh i think i've
said i was i went from being the the golden boy to the goober i went from being
the the person that was doing good things to just being an absolute loser in
a matter of matter of minutes Wow.
So what happens next?
After you're arrested, all of this, what happens?
A long and very positive journey.
And when I say positive, I don't mean fun. I don't mean comfortable.
I don't mean entertaining.
I mean that it was good for me. The arrest woke me up a little bit,
but honestly, not as much as you would think.
I was still very, you could say I was still drinking my own Kool-Aid, maybe you could say.
And so because of that, I maintained my lie.
I wasn't there. I didn't know what they were talking about. I was not guilty
of what they were charging me of.
And in my mind, I wasn't, it wasn't even so much that I believed that I didn't
do it. It was that I was being very technical about it in my own mind.
So in order to justify everything, I was charged with arson.
Well, in my mind, I never lit a fire. I never lit a match, which is technically true.
They were charging me with murder. Again, I didn't kill anybody.
And so that was technically true. And so I just really perpetuated this idea
that, that I was innocent.
And that was compounded by the fact that anyone who's ever had any interaction
with the law can affirm that your lawyer will tell you do not admit guilt under any circumstances.
But that doesn't mean lie. It just means shut up is really what that means.
So it took me a while. It took me a while.
I want to say it took me at least a month or two to even admit to my attorney
that I was there and admit to
my attorney that I was at least culpable of what I felt I was culpable of.
And then honestly, Kevin, It took, I mean, it happened over a series of time
and there were gradual incremental.
Acknowledgements, but I want to say it took at least six months before I was
able to just reconcile the fact that it was my actions that were a part of this.
It was probably a couple of years before I recognized that my actions had a ripple effect.
And it was probably close to five years,
I want to say, before I recognized that the natural born leadership calling
that I carried actually did indeed lay on me a greater level of culpability
than even the others possessed.
Wow. Now, what would be the outcome of you being arrested in all of this this
time? Yeah, the outcome was not what anybody, well, not what anybody that loved me would hope for.
I eventually was offered a plea bargain, which for those that are not familiar
with the law, basically meant that the state of Arizona would not take me to
trial where I could be facing up to 25 to life.
In fact, the very first conversation that my attorney and I had,
he said to me through a bulletproof glass, my name is Jeffrey Kirchler.
I'm your court appointed attorney.
I will be your court appointed attorney for the duration of your pretrial proceedings
unless the state chooses to seek the death penalty, at which point I will no
longer be your court appointed attorney and they will assign another.
Wow. And so that's that was a 19 year old punch in the face right there.
So I was facing really some serious time. So they offered a plea bargain that
would eliminate trial and and would just kind of leave it in the hands of the judge.
And that plea bargain offered a range of between seven years in prison to 21
years in prison. And I think everyone that loved me and knew me were all really
thinking that seven years was too long.
In fact, I think one of the things that really got me in trouble was that there's
a way for a judge, if they really want to, they can basically say,
I'm not accepting the plea bargain and I'm just going to sentence them less.
It hardly ever happens, but that sliver of hope was very large in many of us.
And I think there was, especially me, I'll just speak for my own naivety and my own ego.
Ego I really felt like they were going to look and they were going to say this
kid really all he did was actually break a window we're not going to
send him to prison for seven years because this is still early in
my in my kind of acknowledgement process but I think most of my family was thinking
you know seven years I mean that's that's so much time the kid's never been
in trouble he's never been arrested he's not he's not out there doing drugs
he wasn't gangbanging you know all the things that that at least my circles
would think and so we were all really hoping for seven years.
As it turns out, many of the things that we thought would be mitigating circumstances
were actually ended up to be aggravating circumstances.
The fact that I had never been in trouble and had the upbringing I did was used
as an aggravating circumstance to show that I should have known better and that
I don't have bad influences and things like that.
The fact that I wasn't on drugs indicated to them that this meant I was sociopathic.
They actually had me clinically tested.
I was determined not to be. So they weren't allowed to officially bring that
up. But that was the allegation.
And so the way the sentencing went was that my family had the opportunity to
share why they felt that it should be seven years.
And those that were victims, which included my best friend's family,
and of course, the owners and employees of the business were all able to give their statements.
And every single one of those that were on the prosecutor's side of the aisle asked for the full 21.
Everyone on my side of the aisle asked for seven. I just asked for mercy and
the judge split the difference and sentenced me to 14 years in the Department of Corrections. Wow.
Wow. Wow. Wow. What was going through your head when that sentence came out? This can't be real.
There's there's just no way there. There was so much so much disbelief.
You know, I was remember at that point I was I was thinking,
you know, one or two was what I was hoping for. So I think there was just there
was a ton of disbelief that this was happening.
It couldn't be real. And then I think there was also some sort of what I'm going to call misplaced hope.
You know, everybody, everybody that's in the jail or prison system has,
I shouldn't say everybody, but many people have this clinging hope that their
case is going to be overturned or they're going to get relief or whatever.
And so even as a part of sentencing, the judge will tell you,
you are always welcome to file for post-conviction relief.
So I think that was what I clung to in that moment.
Yeah, it was just very surreal. I was sharing with someone just the other day.
So the whole experience now, even looking back on it, is just extraordinarily surreal.
If you were to look at me, Kevin, and you were to say, John,
what are you talking about?
You never went to prison. And that's, that's insane. What are you like? Are you okay?
Like, I would have a hard time, like, arguing. It's still such a dream and just,
like, such a surreal experience that as I reflect back on it,
the only thing that I can really point to that I would say, no,
it absolutely happened,
is the amount of growth that came out of it all. Wow.
Now, for myself, the idea of going to prison, especially for a sentence of 14
years, it's literally gut-wrenchingly terrifying to me.
Yeah, yeah, especially at 19. So 14 years is, I mean, that's a lifetime to a 19-year-old.
Exactly. And, and you don't really know what to expect.
You're, you're hoping for, hoping for the best. I was in county jail for nine
months, kind of fighting the case, if you can call it that.
And the God just really surrounded me with, with people that,
I don't know if they were good people, but for whatever reason,
they, they seem to want to provide some level of help.
And so they would, you know, give me a little, little tidbits like,
Hey, you know, if you, you end up going to prison, here's, here's things that
you need to know. No, unfortunately, most of them hadn't been there for a while
and they didn't realize things had changed.
So many of the pieces of advice that I was given, while I can see where there
would have been value, it didn't end up serving me super well.
And so, yeah, it was, man, again, just very surreal. And then my placement got canceled.
So I was I went back to jail where they're supposed to, OK, you know,
get you ready and then take you to prison. And usually that takes about a week.
Well, a week came and went and I still wasn't gone and nobody could figure out why.
And to this day, I don't know what happened, but I know there was a moment there
where I was just, I was sure that the whole thing had fallen apart and that
I was going home, and of course, that did not happen.
Eventually, I think it was two weeks later or maybe even three,
I was eventually transferred to the Department of Corrections,
and I think where they really struggled was I think it was a classification
question because they were trying to reconcile,
the difference between such a serious crime, such a young person,
and no previous backstory, story.
And so they were trying to figure out how best to classify me in prison,
because in jail, it's crime is all that matters. It doesn't matter what you're
anything else in prison.
They use other criteria to classify whether you're going to go to medium custody
or minimum custody or maximum custody or whatever.
So I think that that's what it was now. But anyways, yeah, I ended up going to prison.
I did end up filing for post-conviction relief. Nothing happened.
I also applied for something known as clemency, which is basically,
I'm sorry, Sorry, I did it, but I'm doing better. Will you please take some time off my sentence?
That also was not fruitful to my cause.
And so I was in a position where I spent 14 years under the jurisdiction of
the Department of Corrections, 12 of which was actually behind bars,
and the other two was out on community supervision. Wow, wow, wow, wow.
So, I mean...
I don't even know how to summarize the idea of 12 years locked away in prison.
But talk to me about life during that time in your life.
I mean, like I said, 12 years, it's a big time to summarize.
But give me a snapshot of what life kind of was and what did it take on?
Well, when I had been given those tidbits of advice in jail,
one of the things I was told is that when I got to prison, people would kind
of just watch me for a couple of weeks, kind of see what I was about, how I carried myself.
And then someone might approach me from different groups or whatever to,
to find out, you know, kind of what I wanted my quote unquote prison career to look like.
That is not what happened. What happened was I had been there about three minutes
and I got attacked from behind by three people who were trying to make a name
for themselves to see if I would fight back or if I was going to be a lame in the prison system.
But I didn't know what was going on. And I knew that I wasn't getting,
uh, getting raped today.
And so I fought back with everything I had and with, you know,
three black belts under, under my belt, I did okay.
And that, that altercation and that moment set a tone that really, I think God used to help.
And then just, there's just so many moments where I can only thank him for the
wisdom that I, that I had where that moment kind of made it to where people
were just like, okay, he's not causing. any problems. We'll, we'll leave him alone.
They, there wasn't, you know, no gangs were trying to force me to join them.
There was no, or there was less pressure to do stupid things.
And I was again, somehow in dude with a little bit of wisdom where I knew where to draw lines.
And if you draw lines in the beginning, it's a whole lot easier than drawing lines in the end.
And I think that that that's obvious just even from the crime,
right? I think if anybody in the beginning had just said, no, I'm not doing this.
We never would have been on that roof. It's a lot harder once you're already there.
And so once I was in prison, there was a lot of value that was there.
While I was in jail, I had recognized that I was not the person that I claimed to be.
I recognized that my way wasn't working, and I submitted to Christ as the Lord of my life.
I had made a profession of faith earlier in my life, but at this point,
I don't believe it was legitimate. I think I was looking for fire insurance back then.
And so just kind of really submitting to him and so studying the Bible and eventually
leading some Bible studies and things, got to prison.
And it was really just, okay, I'm here.
I'm hoping not to be here for too much longer. But while I'm here,
how am I going to make the most of it?
And the title that I have given to my published story is Redeeming the Time,
because that was really the summary.
You want a summary of 12 years, it was a desire to make the most of every moment,
a desire to grow personally and to empower others to do the same,
a desire and a execution of learning and growth and rehabilitation.
And like I said, that is really, I can look at that now and say,
if you want proof that this happened, look at who John was 15 years ago and
look at who John is today.
And you're going to have to acknowledge there's a dynamic difference. Yeah, yeah.
Powerful, powerful, powerful. When you look back during this time,
is there any moments that stand out the most to you as.
A really transformational period or a moment in time that was extremely positive,
that gave you encouragement, that gave you hope for the future? Any moments like that?
Absolutely. Really, I mean, a ton, a ton of moments.
But I think that most of them were the same type of moments that we have in
our everyday lives that we just miss.
And when you become acutely aware of them, it really, really just serves to
encourage an individual.
Often we're looking for major incidents instead of consistent grace.
And the, the idea there is, I mean, there, there are times, right?
There were, there were many times I found out at one point that there was actually
a price put on my head that was actually removed and taken care of before I
even knew about it, you know, before anything, anything happened.
And so you have some major moments like that, or I think of a similar scenario
where I was really working and dedicated to... I just moved to a new unit,
being reclassified to minimum custody, was dedicated to working on some school
stuff that I was working toward.
And I was approached by someone I'd never even met before. And he said,
hey, I'm getting ready to go home.
And I think you would be the best candidate to replace me in my job.
And I didn't know who he was. I didn't know what his job was.
I didn't have any understanding.
And it turns out that someone or someones had been observing me as I'd gotten to the new unit.
Some people who had known me from previous units had put in some sort of a recommendation,
but this was what could arguably be the job with the most responsibility on the unit.
And I just was like, I didn't apply for this. I didn't ask for this. This is incredible.
And those moments are just very encouraging. Those moments are,
they provide personal inspiration.
And they were, they were kind of just like, okay, you know, we're,
we're, we're moving in the right direction.
Now there were also many moments where you just question everything and it's
like, man, what is going on?
Why, why would that happen?
I, that, that doesn't, that doesn't play into the way that I think things should be going.
I think of the time where I helped run a Christmas service at one of the units
and the senior chaplain of the complex took great offense that an inmate would
be spearheading a religious event and took so much offense to it,
in fact, that he tried to actually send me through disciplinary proceedings
for usurping authority or manipulation of staff or something because
he felt like I had had too much sway over the event that didn't work,
but he was able to get me moved randomly off complex further away from my family.
And it was like, seriously, like, I'm just trying to do the right thing.
I'm trying to help. I'm trying to be a blessing.
I'm trying to serve and this, but even in that scenario, you know,
you flip back to the other side, I got to that new unit and that new unit had
a deputy warden that really, really valued what's called peer education,
inmate peer programming, which is something that I helped to develop while I
was in the Department of Corrections.
And so we developed one of the most comprehensive programs in the state while
I was there with incredible success ratio.
And it was very fulfilling to be able to serve in that place.
And so for every disappointment and discouragement, there was an inspiration and encouragement.
And when you just kind of look back on the summation of the entire experience.
You have in the title of your podcast, Grace, and that really,
I feel like, very well summarizes the entire experience.
It was no cakewalk. It was certainly not fun many times, but there were so many
moments where I can just say, man,
I don't know how that happened the way it did, but boy, I'm sure thankful it
was or it did. Yeah, absolutely.
I admire your insight.
I admire your mindset when you look back on this and you share this with us
today of a experience that I spoke of earlier that terrifies me, shakes me at my core.
And yet I listened to you. And even though it was that you have these moments
where you not only turned your life around and got yourself this own transformation,
but we're also helping to lead others in it as well.
Yeah. And there's so much intrinsic value in that, right?
You have to address internal issues before you can really help anybody else.
And so I think that was very, very important for me to acknowledge my own lack
of character, my own lack of integrity, my own issues, and really take a moment
to just say, okay, that's not okay. And this needs to be addressed.
And that wasn't like a singular decision, you know, that has to be,
that decision has to be made every single day.
But while that decision has to be made, there is so much purpose in helping
others on their journey.
That was such a privilege because for pretty much the entire time I was incarcerated,
I got to help people earn their GEDs.
I got to help people participate in peer education classes and rehabilitation
courses and learn new skills and look at their own character and assess their
own tendencies and habits and things like that. And I got to lead spiritually.
I got to serve in the churches there that are in prison and got to be a blessing
in that way and got to help the community.
We would do fundraisers and support charitable causes.
And so just, I really got to be a part of a ton of really great stuff and found
incredible purpose. And you talk about like a light bulb moments a minute ago. I'll never forget.
It was after one of my, one of my experiences where I did not get the relief I was looking for.
And I remember thinking or recognizing, not thinking to myself,
but recognizing that the souls that were in front of me, the ones I was serving
were just as important as the ones I was trying to get out to deal with and to serve.
And that was a moment of clarity that I really appreciate that so many times
I feel like, in fact, even people,
well-meaning people that really wanted the best for me would say things like,
well, you know, you're in a time of preparation and when you get out,
you're going to make such an impact.
And, and they were, you know, they believed in me. They were,
they were trying to be encouraging, but it speaks to this idea that what I was
doing there was less important than those people were, were less impacted or
less needful or less deserving maybe. And that's just simply not true.
The reality that is very, very impressed on my heart now is that those souls were just as valuable.
Those individuals deserved just as much dignity.
And I had the privilege for 12 years to serve that community.
And I lived every day with the ambition to leave that community a better place than I found it.
Whether I succeeded, I'm sure is up for debate, but I certainly gave it my best effort.
Yeah. Wow. Wow, wow, wow.
My last question that I'm really curious about before we kind of start moving
forward in your story is you talk a lot about leading, you know,
groups and with your faith and stuff.
And what is faith like behind bars?
Because I think so many of us can maybe think that these horrible people,
quote unquote, who are in prison, that they're probably not Christians or they don't go to church.
So talk to me about that whole aspect.
That's a great question, Kevin, because I think there's more than one answer.
And I'm going to do my very best to not take the rest of our podcast talking about it.
But yeah, it's a fantastic question. So first and foremost,
I'll say that one of the other epiphanies that I had,
and I think it's necessary for all of us to have, I think that if there's anyone
on this podcast that disagrees with my next statement, I would just ask you
to really search your heart and kind of just ask like what God's heart is on this.
And if you come to a different conclusion, that's fine. But this is something
that I believe very strongly. And that and that is that I did not need God's grace any less.
Than the very worst of the people that I was surrounded by.
That was a pivotal moment in my journey where I recognized that these horrible
people were not any worse than I was.
Maybe it manifested differently in their life. Maybe their sin and their reality
impacted people more negatively.
But when it came down to the root core of character, I was just as bad as them.
And I think that was really important for me to understand Because once you
understand things through that framework, at this point, it's not like,
oh, they're horrible people. How could God love them?
It's more like, I'm sure glad that God loves horrible people because that's me.
And it really changes the framework. With that being said, I do think you kind
of find three different classifications of Christians.
Maybe that's oversimplifying it, but three general classifications of Christians in the prison context.
You have what I'm going to call the jailhouse Jesus Christians.
These are the ones that find Jesus every time they come to jail.
It gives them a sense of purpose. It gives them a sense of community.
It might keep them out of trouble.
And so it's very convenient for them. But the relationship that they claim to
have has never impacted their life in such a way that it keeps them from coming back.
It just kind of provides them a way to meaningfully go through the experience with each repetition.
Those are ones that I think are very frustrating for many families and why the
idea of jailhouse Jesus became popular because there was a time back in maybe
the late 80s, early 90s, where if somebody went before a judge and said,
I found Jesus and my life has changed, the judge would say, okay, cool.
I believe in redemption and we're going to change your sentence.
We're going to give you less. We're going to let you out, whatever it was.
And judges quickly became disenfranchised with the number of people who claimed
radical life change only to see them come back months or years later.
So that's certainly a group that's there and it's disappointing.
Disappointing, but you never know who those people are, right?
You never know which time it's actually going to resonate.
You never know which time the former seeds will take root.
And so trying not to be judgmental and trying not to view them in a diminished
light, again, just trying to serve the people that are in front of you.
The second group of Christians are the just straight up hypocrites,
the straight up hypocrites.
You have the individuals that are are literally in church because that is a
place where they can meet up with people from other buildings.
That's where they're passing drugs.
That's where they're swapping, you know, notes and letters.
Sometimes it's because they're in some form of, uh, of, of trouble on the unit,
whether that's administrative trouble and they're trying to prove that they're,
you know, doing the right thing, or maybe it's, they're in trouble with the
other inmates and they're, they're trying to gain some level of, of protection by,
you know, I'm a Christian and, and I don't know what what they thought that
would mean, because I sure saw a whole lot of pseudo-Christians,
get mollywhopped because their actions did not align up with their stated beliefs.
But those are less frustrating because they're easy to identify.
And I said for many, many years while I was in prison, you can be just about
anybody you want in the prison setting as long as you're consistent.
And it's the inconsistent ones that just nobody has any respect for whatsoever.
And so those straight hypocrites, nobody respected them. The Christians didn't
trust them. Of course, we tried to love them.
We tried to give them grace, but there was no real camaraderie or brotherly
love because we simultaneously knew that it was, in many cases, a facade.
So we just tried to plant seeds as we were able and love them in the best way that we knew how.
And meanwhile, no one out of the yard respects them either because,
again, they know that they're one way.
You're in a fishbowl. Everyone knows everything you're doing in that setting.
There is no secrecy. There is no privacy. There is no sneaking around.
Everyone knows you're You're kind of in the middle of the open air.
And so people know and people just don't respect them. And then you have those
that are just trying to serve God.
And the cool thing about the prison context is, in large part,
the whole separation of denominations and whether or not you're of the right
brand of Christianity kind of goes out the window. There's a little bit of that.
There are some kind of cults that coalesce there. But if you believe that Jesus
is God and that he came and paid for your sins, you're probably going to just
find the other people that believe the same thing.
And you're really going to find fellowship and unity in that scenario.
And I've had many, many people who have said to me that going into the prison
system as a volunteer has shown them what church can really look like.
That, you know, they just, the authenticity of the singing and the passion of
the prayers and things where people are just, they're not encumbered by all
of the distractions that exist out here in the free world.
And they really have nothing better to do than just study.
And so you have some theologians in there. I mean, people that you would try
to have a conversation with and you'd think, oh, they're an inmate.
I'm going to go in there and I'll try to dumb it down for them and hopefully
I don't speak over their head.
And then they'll ask you some question about the disposition of Christ on the
Mount of Transfiguration and whether or not that was a Christology or whether
that was an actual metaphysical transformation.
I mean, and you'll be like, yeah, I never heard half those terms.
So I'm going to get back to you on that.
And so you have people that just spend an incredible amount of time that studying
and learning and trying to develop their faith.
And so it's really kind of a three part beast.
I think that in that last group, there is maybe a subgroup that I would have
to say you never really know if they belong in the first group or the third group,
because they are usually some
of the most studied and the most passionate and the most well-behaved.
And so from all outward appearance, they're very sincere and you can only give
them the benefit of the doubt.
But you wonder sometimes not because of their actions, but because they genuinely
believe that it is God's will for them to get out of prison ASAP.
And so you wonder at times, are they studying and being a part of everything
because they would be willing to go to prison for Jesus?
Or are they doing it because they're hoping Jesus will get them out of prison?
And that was something that was always very burdensome to me because there are
some really dear brothers that I know in there that just, man,
they've been clinging to this idea that it's not God's will for them to be there.
And it's like, well, he still has you there, if nothing else.
Maybe he is going to bring you out sooner rather than later.
But I know when I study the Bible, I see a whole lot more people going into
prison for doing the right thing than I see God getting people out of prison
after they've done the wrong thing.
And so I think that there's there's that kind of subgroup that you pray for
them, you love them, and you really hope that the legitimacy is as legitimate
as it appears. Yeah. Wow.
Very, very interesting. I love the way that you could explain that,
answer that question broken down into the three segments.
Very interesting. It's literally a it's a community within the prison.
Of people of all different shapes and sizes and beliefs and prerogatives.
And to hear you break that down, that was really cool. So thank you for taking the time to do that.
Yeah, it's basically a microcosm of society.
It's just on a more visible display.
Yes. So, I mean, you have those same groups in the real world with just maybe different motives.
Maybe it's not to get out of prison. Maybe it's to restore a marriage or whatever.
You have the same people that are, you know, just straight hypocrites,
whatever I was. I was that person. I was the person that was completely different
on Saturday night than I was on Sunday morning.
That was that was me to the core so that the groups exist out here.
They're just not as clearly on display.
And prison is very, very much a microcosm of the outside world. Yeah. Yeah.
Would you end up serving all 14 years?
With the understanding that two of those years were technically outside under
community supervision, the answer is absolutely yes. I served every day of it.
Okay. So 12 years behind bars. Correct.
Talk to me about getting out of prison.
During my time, I had, as I've mentioned, placed a great emphasis on growth.
And one of the things that I very firmly believed in is the best time to start
preparing to get out is the day you walk in.
That was a piece of advice that someone had given me along the way.
And I tried to embody that and live that.
And so part of my efforts to get ready to get out was to ask people who had
gotten out what to expect, what I should be looking at facing and what things
I should be prepared to overcome.
And one of the things that are many of the things I've been told,
but one of them was basically how difficult it was going to be,
that the transition was going to be very harsh.
Some examples, you don't have a refrigerator in prison.
And so I heard stories from one person who would literally just stand there
with the refrigerator and open and close it because they just,
it was like they were in a tick. They couldn't continue.
Something else, you never walk barefoot in prison. You always wear like,
they call them shower shoes, but basically they're just sandals,
like beach sandals or whatever.
And so the feel of carpet on your feet, the ability to make a decision.
Yes, there's a commissary where you can buy little snacks, but to walk down
one aisle of the store and see nothing but cereals and to be able to make that
decision would just paralyze people.
And so I was prepared for this. I was prepared for a difficult transition and
I was geared up and ready to go.
I walked out of prison that first day and my brother was there to pick me up.
We weren't 100% certain what day I was getting out, which is probably a longer story.
But bottom line is, is the state of Arizona has like a range that they can let you out.
And so instead of breaking my family's hearts by having them expect day one,
when it was actually going to be day 30, I just told them day 30.
And then when I got out on day 10, most everybody but my brother was surprised.
So that was a really neat experience.
But in any case, I got out, walked in my brother's vehicle.
He handed me... We talked. My brother was extremely supportive.
I could spend two different podcasts just talking about the wonderful support
that my brother provided over the years of my incarceration.
But he was there. He handed me one of his old phones. And he said,
it's already hooked up and ready for you. And the first month is paid for.
And we had talked, I told him I didn't want to be a charity case.
I wanted to try to work through things and I was going to be getting a job.
He said, so you can start paying your part of the bill on month two.
And somehow, I honestly don't know how, I knew how to use the phone.
Hadn't touched a phone like that in 50, well, never really, never a phone like
that 15 years before or 12 years before those phones didn't exist.
And I had worked hard in there to remain up to date with technology.
I was one of the few inmates that almost always had access to a computer due
to the work that I was doing.
But we were talking desktops with Windows XP, not the latest version of Galaxy
smartphones. our phones.
And so somehow I actually pretty much knew what I was doing.
And we surprised my cousin for breakfast.
And somehow I had no problem engaging with the waitress or ordering off the menu.
And we surprised my parents at lunch. And somehow I had no issue engaging the
counter at lunch and engaging in public with my parents.
And I could just keep going on. The bottom line is, is this,
I kept waiting for the ball to drop.
I kept waiting for the PTSD to hit. I kept waiting for my just world to get rocked by something.
And it never happened. It never happened. I walked out and the transition was
as smooth as anyone could have ever asked for.
My brother probably paid me what has to date been one of the largest compliments I've received.
He said it was like two days after I got out and he was talking about the first day.
He said, it was really interesting watching you kind of navigate that first
day. It was almost like you never left.
And to go into prison, I mean, the people that work in the prisons will tell
you that they are quickly institutionalized.
And that their ability to navigate the outside world changes.
In fact, my now father-in-law works in the federal correction system.
And he'll tell you that he is institutionalized, that he does not like people,
that he kind of is a recluse.
And so, I mean, for me to have been there, not even getting to go home every
day, but just there for 12 years straight, never seeing the outside of those
fences, man, Kevin, I just can't explain the amount of grace that I feel was conferred to me in that.
And as I recalled back on my time of incarceration, I thought of a few things.
And I thought of how many times I had been in trouble.
And you think, well, what do you mean trouble? I thought you were doing all these good things.
Well, you think back on the time that the Christmas service happened.
And that wasn't the only time something like that happened.
If I looked back every time that I got in quote unquote trouble,
it all centered around the same basic idea.
And that idea could be summarized by one of the counselors who particularly
did not like me, where she constantly kept telling me, John,
you need to understand your place.
You need to remember what color you're wearing. You need to remember you're an inmate.
Because I was doing a lot of things that inmates wouldn't do.
I was running programs and I was working with administration.
And so I would just try to help. And often that helpfulness would be either
misunderstood, but more often not misunderstood, just disliked.
Just how dare an inmate have the the right to, to do that.
And that happens enough. And it did, it happened quite a few times where you
begin to question yourself, or at least I did.
I started to question, Hey, man, am I the one that's in the wrong?
Like I'm trying to help. I'm trying to serve. I'm trying to be humble,
but man, maybe, maybe I'm the problem.
Maybe the issue is not anybody else. Maybe, maybe it's me.
And, uh, I really struggled with that for the last like year or so of my incarceration.
But when I got out and the transition was so seamless, it occurred to me that
the problem was not that I did not know my place.
The problem was that my place was not in there.
And so when I got back out here and I was back in a world that I fit in much
better with, I was able to step into that role of a contributing member of the community.
I was able to join with a church. I was able to serve in that church.
I was able to take a good job. I was able to add value. you.
And I am extremely thankful for the opportunities that I've had to engage that
same level of grace and that same heart for service in this outside community
as I was able to do inside. Yeah, absolutely.
Now, you were put under probation for two years?
Not probation. Probation is administered by the county. This was administered by the state.
Used to it have been called parole, but they've done away with the term parole
and it's now called community supervision.
For those that don't know any difference, you can call it probation or whatever,
but technically it's administered by the state and parole or community supervision
is usually much easier than probation.
Probation usually has classes that you have to attend and often you have to
pay for various aspects of it.
In my case, I only had to pay. I had to pay, I think it was like $65 a month.
Then of course I needed to finish paying off my restitution,
which I was able to do within a month or two of getting out of prison.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Perfect.
So you're out of prison.
You talk about this kind of seamless transition back into quote unquote real life.
So where does life go? Did you have a plan or not?
I definitely had a plan, but it was a loose plan because I recognized that I
didn't know what I didn't know.
My plan was to spend the first month basically being present,
spending time with family and friends, experiencing things, not trying to rush
things, but also keeping an eye out for where I might be able to add value in terms of work.
During that month, my brother, the same brother that was very,
very supportive and encouraging, had actually spoken with his employer.
And he wasn't trying to get me a job. What he was trying to do was actually buy me some time.
He had basically said, hey, as you guys all know, I've got a lot of projects I'm working on.
I would like to bring my brother on in a contractor role to help me finish some of these things up.
That'll give him a little bit of income, and it'll give him an opportunity to
figure out where he wants to go, what value he wants to add, etc.
Apparently, I wasn't a part of those conversations, but apparently there was some apprehension.
Some other people were brought into the conversation and it was determined that
while they were okay with bringing me on as a contractor, they did not want
him to be the one supervising.
They wanted to avoid any form of whatever it's called when family members hire family members.
They wanted to avoid that. And so they ended up saying, hey,
we've been working on some training material.
It sounds like John's done a lot of curriculum development and stuff with what
you're telling us about the work he's done in the prisons.
So why don't we bring him on to develop our next training course?
So he asked me, you know, Hey, what do you think about this?
And I said, yeah, I'd be open to doing some training material for them.
And so I did a little interview, met with the director of operations and I don't
remember who I was on. I know the director of ops was there,
but I want to say it doesn't matter.
Several people on the interview and they decided to bring me on as a contractor
at an hourly invoice rate.
And so So I came on, started working for them, working on some things.
It wasn't very long before they actually asked me to come to Atlanta,
which was where their office was.
And I'd only been out of prison at this point, I want to say four weeks.
And that is not much time.
It's very, very uncommon for them to allow you to leave the state and sometimes
not even the county for at least 90, if not 180 days after you get out.
And sometimes they just say, no, they won't allow you to do it until you're
off of supervision altogether. together.
In this case, for reasons, again, unknown to me, they did require a letter from
the employer, but they did allow me to go to Atlanta within a month of getting out of prison.
And while I was there, the director of ops called me into his office and said,
I see what you're capable of. You're doing great work. What am I going to have to do to keep you?
And we talked about some strategy, we talked about some things and so forth.
And to kind of summarize that whole scenario, two months into my three-month
contract, I was presented with an official job offer to take responsibility
for their entire training department there at the company.
I served in that role for two and a half years before being asked to take the
director of revenue role for the organization.
And currently, I'm still functioning in that director of revenue role while
also working to start my own business, doing something completely different.
And so that's kind of the work side of it.
Meanwhile, I had probably 10 years before I got out.
So a couple of years into my sentence, I had begun listening to CDs from a church
in the Phoenix area that I felt aligned with a lot of the values that I felt,
I guess, matched with mine and I thought
hopefully matched with the bibles and so i went there as
uh as you know to kind of get to know the place i went i visited
a lot of churches but not so much to visit to go but to go
worship with people that i had met and had grown close to and
then had the opportunity to join with palmcroft church in the phoenix area where
i served for almost three years within a matter of months of getting out i was
asked to start to help lead the college and career ministry so the 18 to 25
year old age group and And was privileged to be able to serve that group of students for,
like I said, almost three years before we moved to South Carolina.
Yeah. Wow, wow, wow, wow. So powerful.
When you look back on it all from kind of where you sit today.
Do you feel like knowing what you know now, do you feel like you would have
changed it when you have rewritten the story to not have gone to prison?
Do you think you would be the man that you are today, be where you are today,
if you had not gone through that?
It's an interesting question, right? I've heard people say, you know,
I have no regrets because if I hadn't gone through what I've gone through,
then I wouldn't be the person I am today.
And I understand the sentiments behind them. I don't personally carry that view.
I think that it's absolutely horrendous that with the upbringing I had,
the wisdom God gave me inherently, as well as just kind of the skill set and
other things that I placed myself in a position to need prison for 12 years
to knock some sense into me.
And I think that God gave me all the tools that I needed to be in the place
I'm in now without going through that.
But because I was too stubborn and too egotistical, he said,
okay, I'll do what I got to do. I'm going to make sure that you operate in your purpose.
And if you're not going to get on board, I will get you on board.
And so I have a hard time saying I don't have any regrets because my actions
hurt so many people, Kevin.
Not only did my best friend die, but his family, of course, was devastated.
All of the members of the business were harmed. But, you know,
I mentioned the 500 students and there are some that I've had the opportunity to reconnect with.
And some of those students, you know, are very understanding, very forgiving.
But there are young men and young ladies out there right now who are in their
early 20s, who I was their martial arts instructor or I was their soccer coach
because I did both for the company.
And their entire life has been jaded by.
By somebody they trusted, somebody they looked up to, somebody that they thought
was a good guy making the decision I made.
And I can't say that my growth journey is worth what I've put those individuals through.
And so I really desperately wish that I could have acknowledged these principles,
these things that I was taught, these things that if nothing else,
I mean, there's so many things that I just somehow knew, and I can't explain how.
Surely I could have somehow known these things and recognize these truths without
needing to cause such devastation by my choices.
And so, yes, I would absolutely rewrite the story.
I'm thankful for how it's been redeemed. I say often that God has the uncanny
ability to take our stupidity and turn it into something great.
And I am deeply thankful that my stupidity has been turned into a redemption
story and I love getting to share that story.
I have a whole presentation that I love to give that's a lot more streamlined
than this conversation because it usually needs to be given in about 30 minutes
and I love being able to encourage people and to be able to share it,
but I sure tell you what, I really wish that I could have experienced the growth
that God's grace gave without causing the devastation that led me there. Yeah.
I just want to acknowledge the fact that that was the most heartfelt.
Most honest answer to that question that I could have ever expected you to answer it with.
And I feel as though that speaks so highly of just the person who you are.
Thanks, Kevin. Yeah, absolutely.
So would you mind sharing kind of what your ideas, your hopes,
your dreams, what you're working on today and for the future? Yeah.
So part of my responsibilities as the training manager were to empower the leaders of the organization.
And I realized in the midst of working on some materials for them that I just
have an incredible passion for empowering leaders and providing tools specifically
to what I call the forgotten leaders,
which tend to be those frontline leaders, the middle managers,
the people that have a ton of responsibility, but no real actual education on how to deal with it.
And who are usually the ones either making people's lives miserable or making
a place an enjoyable place to work.
And so I've started a company called SML Consultive.
SML stands for servant-minded leadership, where we seek to empower those frontline
leaders to effectively engage with their teams and hopefully improve the employee
retention and engagement of organizations while also improving customer satisfaction.
I'm really passionate about that. I got a YouTube channel that I put little videos out about.
And I've just had a blast trying to get this started.
Still in the infant stages, still actively looking for clients that I can serve.
I know there's a need. I know that I have some value to offer.
But of course, branding and getting oneself out there is always a journey.
So that's something that I'm working on really diligently right now.
And in my spare hours, I'm still working full-time as the Director of Revenue.
And so I'm trying to be a person of integrity with that while giving them the
full time that they are paying me for, while also giving my business its due
needs because a business doesn't start itself.
And so working very, very diligently on that, I'm now married.
And so I have the privilege of being married to a wonderful woman who is just
incredibly talented and beautiful and brings so much life to our home.
And so wanting to make sure that I'm faithful to serve her and make sure that
I'm upholding all of the responsibilities that come with that life commitment to marriage.
And we just moved a couple of months ago. So we're currently in the process
of finding a new place to serve in a local church setting.
And we're working diligently to make sure that we're not church shopping from
the perspective of what can we get, but rather visit places to ask,
where is God calling us to serve?
And so we're looking forward to the next opportunity that God has for us to
hopefully participate in what he's doing locally here in the Greer,
Greenville, South Carolina area.
And as a part of that, I was actually just thinking the other day,
I posted on some Facebook groups because I realized when I was in Phoenix,
I got to share my testimony with several churches and several groups.
And I said, I got a whole presentation.
So I'm looking to see if there's maybe an opportunity to be a blessing by sharing
my story of redemption and how God has worked through my stupidity to some of
the groups that are here.
Here and anybody else that wants me to do so, I'd be thrilled to hopefully be
a blessing and share what God can do no matter how badly we foul it up.
Yeah. Well, I hope and pray that.
This podcast can do some degree in helping you to share your story, to share your message.
I'm going to be sure for anybody who's interested in connecting with you,
I'm going to be sure that all of your links, information are all inside of today's
show notes for easy access.
Man, you've got a powerful story. You're a powerful guy.
I'm so glad, grateful that things are going good.
Good that yeah that you took a bad
situation you flipped it on its head and
you've made good come out of it and i think
that's one of the most powerful things that any of us can do and so thank you
so much for sharing it with with us today oh man it's been an absolute pleasure
kevin i love your heart i love your energy and uh it's been just a great honor
to spend this last few few minutes with you. Yeah.
Thank you. Thank you. And for you, my friend, my hope as always is that you
didn't just enjoy today's episode,
but that it impacts your life somehow, some way, something that John said today,
maybe it resonates with you, or maybe you think of a friend who you really think
could use to hear this message today.
It's a story of redemption, a story of hope, a story of our challenges turned
into triumphs. It's the craziness of life. It's a powerful conversation.
And I am so grateful that you were here to hear it today.
My name is Kevin Lowe. This is Grit, Grace and Inspiration. Get out there and enjoy.